Author Topic: Episode 337  (Read 91516 times)

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Offline Johnstantine

Re: Episode 337
« Reply #100 on: September 26, 2014, 02:18:34 PM »
He could only send them off. But he was the one who built their graveyard on the Hill of Swords!

Maybe it's just me, but I feel like that is the most powerful statement in the entire series.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #101 on: September 26, 2014, 02:26:35 PM »
It's "sayonara".

Well, figuratively it still burns as bad as this one:

http://youtu.be/wPVAq94Tk9M

Yeah, that really caught my attention, not a wimpy slap at all.

Yep, put his body into it, combining the insult and formal rebuke of the slap with the force of a punch. Guts would be so proud, except he would have slapped him with the Dragon Slayer. :guts:

Maybe it's just me, but I feel like that is the most powerful statement in the entire series.

Well, I wouldn't go that far, but it's certainly a powerful sentiment to convey Rickert's love and commitment as well as his claim to anger; essentially, "I buried them."

This does all beg the question where Rickert goes from here. Uneasily coexist in Griffith's city? Obviously they don't ever need to personally see each other again, but just knowing the other is there after this seems pretty untenable. A mutual parting might be best for all involved. Though, unless Rickert is going to seek out Guts where else has he got to go? Very interesting either way. I wouldn't be surprised if Rickert defiantly sticks around, but part of me is hoping he goes full, "Let's blow this dump." :badbone:
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 02:44:13 PM by Griffith »

Offline Devilwoman

Re: Episode 337
« Reply #102 on: September 26, 2014, 02:35:31 PM »
I wonder if Rickert started crying after slapping Griffith. Gotta admit that it was rather ballsy from him to do that, especially with Locus around, who obviously didn't appreciate it. Still it was noble of Griffith to stop Locus from intervening, like it's no big deal.I'm curious about what Rickert is going to do after this, and whether he'll stay in Falconia.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #103 on: September 26, 2014, 02:50:13 PM »
Well, figuratively it still burns as bad as this one:

http://youtu.be/wPVAq94Tk9M

Ugghhh.

This does all beg the question where Rickert goes from here. Uneasily coexist in Griffith's city? Obviously they don't ever need to personally see each other again, but just knowing the other is there after this seems pretty untenable. A mutual parting might be best for all involved. Though, unless Rickert is going to seek out Guts where else has he got to go? Very interesting either way.

Yep, now is when he gets to worry about Erica's safety and the potential consequences of his actions.

I wonder if Rickert started crying after slapping Griffith.

He tears up when talking about his old comrades.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #104 on: September 26, 2014, 03:02:41 PM »
I wonder if Rickert started crying after slapping Griffith.

It appears his eyes are welled up with tears before/as he does it, and I don't think it has anything to do with the slap itself, more the emotions that precipitated it.

Still it was noble of Griffith to stop Locus from intervening, like it's no big deal.

Well, Griffith needed to maintain some dignity. Calling for help would have been the ultimate low. :ganishka:

I'm curious about what Rickert is going to do after this, and whether he'll stay in Falconia.
Yep, now is when he gets to worry about Erica's safety and the potential consequences of his actions.

You know, before seeing this I thought the slap might be part of Griffith's attempt at seducing Rickert back to his side. Let him get it out of his system and then go for reconciliation and forgiveness, with Erica's safety being the unspoken leverage. Clearly though, unless Griffith is also the greatest actor of his time, this is not what he had in mind, and it's the first time we've seen things go that way. He knew Guts would attack him and was his usual smug self about it, but this was completely different. Especially with the whole expectant, "Did the oracle tell you to bow down like a good little boy like everybody else (I know it did)? :griffnotevil:" I certainly didn't expect Rickert to so forcefully dictate the terms of the conversation, more like his own personal declaration to Griffith, and I don't think he did either. Rickert may not hate Griffith, but he sure has learned to resent the Hell out of him.

Offline Irvine

Re: Episode 337
« Reply #105 on: September 26, 2014, 03:18:48 PM »

Offline ryOtoha

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #106 on: September 26, 2014, 03:46:22 PM »
I feel relieved to finally see Rickert take this unique opportunity to get things off his chest, come to terms with the Falcon of Light. In a way, by the end of that episode, Rickert walk out as a different person. For the reader, this feels incredibly relieving. As always, Miura's writing and mise en scene are masterful.

And now we know it occurs in front of Locus' watch (despite warning and lecturing Rickert), the slap is even more pleasurable to watch.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 04:30:30 PM by ryOtoha »

Offline Tama

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #107 on: September 26, 2014, 05:22:58 PM »
I'm wondering too if Rickert will end up staying or not, but I'm assuming he will for the time being because of it being more or less a safe place for Erika. I'm not really sure what will come of this, I don't see Griffith sending some assassination attempt after him or anything of the sort, I think that would be too silly, and to me I don't think he cares enough either way on Rickert's position. Like others have said, this is less about how Griffith would react to being talked to like this and the physical blow, and more about Rickert's feelings on the matter and being able to tell him face to face. I like how Locus was right there to witness it, and I wonder too if it's anywhere near Charlotte and co.

Offline Devilwoman

Re: Episode 337
« Reply #108 on: September 26, 2014, 06:37:48 PM »
I think this is the first time Griffith got rejected after he was reborn by someone who knew him when he was still human(not counting Guts).It's really interesting and it changes everything I was envisioning for Rickert. Guts said to him that he can't hate Griffith, since he wasn't there at the eclipse. So there was a possibility for Rickert to join Griffith. But clearly he's still thinking a lot about his fallen comrades, and why they had to die. Griffith may control the souls but it was Rickert who allowed them to rest in a way, by making the hill of swords for them.
About what he will do, I think Rickert will stay in Falconia because it's one of the "safest" places right now, but he will not be involved directly with the BoH or Griffith. I don't see Griffith sending assassins after him because he got rejected.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #109 on: September 26, 2014, 07:19:25 PM »
I'm not really sure what will come of this, I don't see Griffith sending some assassination attempt after him or anything of the sort, I think that would be too silly, and to me I don't think he cares enough either way on Rickert's position.
I think this is the first time Griffith got rejected after he was reborn

I think the most interesting aspect on this front is not so much whether Griffith cares or not (I'm sure he does), but that Rickert can do this at all, physically and mentally. I mean, people and apostles alike are physically compelled to follow and obey Griffith. Mule practically offered his sword involuntarily, and the best Ganishka could do was not let Griffith touch him (all according to plan, of course). That he even has the capacity to resist sets Rickert apart, like others outside the "fairy tale." The other interesting thing about that is that instead of magic all he's armed with is knowledge. That makes him, and more importantly, the truth, potentially very dangerous. It means a very simple thing could "break the spell" and bring down the whole plan, just like any other mundane conspiracy. How ignominious an end would that be for the arrogant monsters pretending to be gods? :guts:

I don't see Griffith sending assassins after him because he got rejected.

I wonder if reaction to the insult among Griffith's sworn protectors like Locus (and Zodd) might make things uncomfortable anyway... I wouldn't want them pissed at me, and even if Griffith isn't issuing an order, you still might not be safe (not caring can go both ways).

Offline Devilwoman

Re: Episode 337
« Reply #110 on: September 26, 2014, 07:25:52 PM »
I wonder if reaction to the insult among Griffith's sworn protectors like Locus (and Zodd) might make things uncomfortable anyway... I wouldn't want them pissed at me, and even if Griffith isn't issuing an order, you still might not be safe (not caring can go both ways).
Sure the apostles can have their own saying on the matter, without Griffith being involved. Dunno about Locus but if Zodd was there he would have shred Rickert to pieces xD They could always go on their own way and attack him, at night, when he's least likely to be prepared.So maybe Falconia isn't safe for him after this. We'll see how things go.

Offline Jaze1618

Re: Episode 337
« Reply #111 on: September 26, 2014, 07:43:33 PM »
I think the most interesting aspect on this front is not so much whether Griffith cares or not (I'm sure he does), but that Rickert can do this at all, physically and mentally. I mean, people and apostles alike are physically compelled to follow and obey Griffith. Mule practically offered his sword involuntarily, and the best Ganishka could do was not let Griffith touch him (all according to plan, of course). That he even has the capacity to resist sets Rickert apart, like others outside the "fairy tale."

I agree with you completely and I also wonder if down the line this will be called out as another effect of Guts' influence in the world as a fish splashing in a water, and not just part of a reflection on the water's surface like everyone else. Guts ability to resist Griffith's charm may become a contagious pathogen.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #112 on: September 26, 2014, 10:03:51 PM »
Dunno about Locus but if Zodd was there he would have shred Rickert to pieces

I am not so sure. Locus strikes me as quite fervent, even compared to Zodd. Actually, it would have been all the more interesting if Zodd had been there because he knows Rickert.

it changes everything I was envisioning for Rickert. Guts said to him that he can't hate Griffith, since he wasn't there at the eclipse. So there was a possibility for Rickert to join Griffith.

Eh, did you really think Rickert would end up joining Griffith's ranks, just like old times?

I also wonder if down the line this will be called out as another effect of Guts' influence in the world as a fish splashing in a water, and not just part of a reflection on the water's surface like everyone else.

I think you're taking that line outside of its context.

Guts ability to resist Griffith's charm may become a contagious pathogen.

That's not how I would characterize it. Guts and Rickert knew Griffith when he was still human. They know who he was, they know how he became something else, and they were betrayed in the process. That gives them a unique perspective.

Offline Skeleton

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #113 on: September 26, 2014, 10:06:10 PM »
I agree with you completely and I also wonder if down the line this will be called out as another effect of Guts' influence in the world as a fish splashing in a water, and not just part of a reflection on the water's surface like everyone else. Guts ability to resist Griffith's charm may become a contagious pathogen.

I wonder if this is the point where Griffith's expectations of what's going to happen starts to separate from the Idea of Evil's plan.  This might be Femto's version of Guts leaving Griffith, where something happens that Griffith didn't expect or want and his reaction to it causes things to fall apart.  Assuming Rickert's actions affect Griffith, of course.

Just thinking out loud here.  :idea:
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 05:51:11 AM by Skeleton »

Offline Pheron

Re: Episode 337
« Reply #114 on: September 26, 2014, 10:15:43 PM »
So why didn't Griffith just dodge or stop the attack somehow? I can only think of these explanations for this:

1. He simply let his guard down. He was too arrogant to think Rickert would dare to attack him. I think this explanation is unlikely because Griffith/Femto showed off his perfect awareness of his surroundings at several points in time especially against the Skull Knight. So arrogance shouldn't take that ability away and to be honest, he always appears arrogant.

2. It wasn't possible for him to stop/dodge the attack without hurting Rickert or revealing his God Hand abilities. That would make him kinda defenseless if he wanted to appear human. So, unlikely.

3. He didn't care. Femto can't feel humiliation because he is no human. It could be argued that Femto does care about appearance and it can't be in his interest to be seen slapped by a mere human by so many important followers and underlings.

4. He agreed to deserve it. I can't make sense of why a quasi-deity with no feelings should agree to that. But Griffith agreed and accepted it. Maybe it's just another part of his master plan and we just don't know yet  :femto:

Regardless of why he let the slap happen, do you think this will have any consequences for Griffith? He showed weakness in front of his underlings after all. Rickert will be known as the boy who slapped Grffith and got away with it.

Offline Devilwoman

Re: Episode 337
« Reply #115 on: September 26, 2014, 10:26:30 PM »
I am not so sure. Locus strikes me as quite fervent, even compared to Zodd. Actually, it would have been all the more interesting if Zodd had been there because he knows Rickert.

Eh, did you really think Rickert would end up joining Griffith's ranks, just like old times?

Yeah I would have loved it if Zodd was there instead of Locus, because he has a history with the old band.
Maybe not join the new band literally, but be more involved in what happens in Falconia and maybe be one of the supporters of his politics. It looks like it's not gonna happen though, because  Rickert seems to be immune to Griffith's aura, in the way that he doesn't think that he's a savior or something like that like the others do. He still remembers him as the man he used to, and his way of dealing with Griffith is most likely based on that.

Offline Irvine

Re: Episode 337
« Reply #116 on: September 26, 2014, 11:16:07 PM »
So maybe Falconia isn't safe for him after this.

I wonder WHAT place is safe for him from now on. There are many dangerous creatures outside of the city.
As far as I know the only people who never followed Griffith and are strong enough to fight against monsters are the Bākiraka....

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #117 on: September 27, 2014, 09:11:38 AM »
Regardless of why he let the slap happen, do you think this will have any consequences for Griffith? He showed weakness in front of his underlings after all.

I don't think he showed "weakness". He bore with Rickert. How would that have consequences for him? Do you expect Locus to challenge him for the throne or something?

Maybe not join the new band literally, but be more involved in what happens in Falconia and maybe be one of the supporters of his politics.

I think Rickert will still probably make a living in Falconia, but personally I never expected him to actively "join" Griffith as a loyal supporter anyway. I think some people take that scene on the Hill of Swords the wrong way. What Guts meant is that Rickert isn't fit to walk the dark path he himself is/was/will be on, that of hatred and revenge (which Rickert refers to in this episode as well). But that doesn't mean Rickert doesn't resent Griffith for what he did. In fact, at that time Rickert really wanted to go along and it's probably only because of Erica that he stayed behind.

Moving on, I'm not sure Griffith needs any supporters for his "politics" really, I mean who's going to rise against him? Falconia isn't a democracy.

It looks like it's not gonna happen though, because Rickert seems to be immune to Griffith's aura, in the way that he doesn't think that he's a savior or something like that like the others do. He still remembers him as the man he used to, and his way of dealing with Griffith is most likely based on that.

Like I told Jaze I don't think it's a matter of immunity so much as knowledge and experience. You say his way of dealing with Griffith is most likely based on that, but I'd say it's definitely the case.


Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #119 on: September 28, 2014, 07:12:10 AM »
Just amazing. We had the gist of it, but the full thing is so much cooler. The shot of Griffith asking the question, with the Hill of Swords behind Rickert's blank face is incredible.

Anyway, the takeaway here is that Rickert is truly a badass. Oh, and the people who somehow still think Casca will want to join Griffith when she wakes up should maybe get a clue from this.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #120 on: September 28, 2014, 07:17:01 AM »
Wow, maximum embarrassment; all Griff can do to maintain face is stop his guards, and he barely gets a word in after. Love Locus' impotent rage too. :guts:

Offline Skeleton

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #121 on: September 28, 2014, 08:04:17 AM »
Wow!  This episode is great!  That last shot of Rickert walking away is fantastic.

It was pretty neat to see Rickert reacting when he saw Charlotte.

I love that the slap bothered Locus.  Screw him.  :femto:

And I think it's safe to say everyone saw the fight of the century.  :ganishka:

Offline Jaze1618

Re: Episode 337
« Reply #122 on: September 28, 2014, 08:10:22 AM »
Fun read!! The burning question now however; What was the deal about Griffith being able to control plants? I didn't see any context for that in this episode. I'm curious to know what that reference was all about.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #123 on: September 28, 2014, 08:13:02 AM »
Wow!  This episode is great!  That last shot of Rickert walking away is fantastic.
And I think it's safe to say everyone saw the fight of the century.  :ganishka:

It's a little scary actually how open and unresolved it is. Stopping the guards is basically all Griffith can do to maintain the appearance of any sort of dignified control, "It's O.K., I MEANT to do that!" Like, this isn't necessarily over. Griffith's public persona said stop, but will his inner Femto be so benign about being physically rebuked like that in front of everybody (no one important, just the heads of church and state)? That's a crack in the armor, and he'll surely be questioned about how and why that could happen. He could just say Rickert lost some comrades under his command, or just not answer at all in a, "I'm above all this petty human shit" moment (look at his face though, during the slap he looks like he could cry and on the last page he looks like he got dumped). I can see Sonja having the biggest takeaway. She's more of a Griffith zealot than Locus (U MAD BRO?), and she'll certainly want to know, from Rickert himself if necessary (and what would she think?). Anyway, this is a win/win, any outcome from this will be good. Whether Griffith just blows it off and nothing further comes of it or if he sits back down, dismisses everyone but Locus, and says, "Kill him. Kill all of them."

The burning question now however; What was the deal about Griffith being able to control plants? I didn't see any context for that in this episode. I'm curious to know what that reference was all about.

My best guess would be something to do with all the flora and fauna at the beginning (maybe Griffith was making them bloom for brunch =). Otherwise, the only thing that got planted in this episode was Rickert's hand into Griffith's face. BTW, Miura needs to give his hand a rest with this shit, "I think it improves the series when I drew every flower petal and line in the wall!" :miura:



« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 08:24:32 AM by Griffith »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #124 on: September 28, 2014, 10:16:14 AM »
The burning question now however; What was the deal about Griffith being able to control plants? I didn't see any context for that in this episode.

It refers to Griffith's talk with Charlotte in the beginning. She's been collecting flowers from the garden to form that big bouquet in the vase. Griffith comments that there are more flowers today than before. Charlotte explains that she collected samples of each country's flowers. In short, there are flowers from all over the world blooming in that eternally peaceful garden. Reminds me of Rochine's misty valley.

Charlotte also made herbal tea, and Griffith can name all of the ingredients involved. Sonia's being picky, saying it's not that good, etc. The Pontiff reiterates that he's only got one thing left to do: put the crown on the head of the Falcon of Light. And of course, before that, he'll perform the wedding ceremony for Charlotte and Griffith. Obviously, hearing that sets Sonia off and she complains about the cake too. When Mule objects, she tells him that if he stops looking over her she'll give him half of it, to which he replies that he's on duty, guarding her. They're interrupted by a guard that informs Griffith that "Sir Locus" has brought a visitor. Rickert notices that Charlotte is there, and thinks to himself "the two... again..." regarding her and Griffith.

The rest is known already, but it's interesting to note that when Rickert is thinking about all of what he's seen in Falconia, Griffith's first words directly continue Rickert's thoughts, as if he read his mind.

Like, this isn't necessarily over. Griffith's public persona said stop, but will his inner Femto be so benign about being physically rebuked like that in front of everybody (no one important, just the heads of church and state)? That's a crack in the armor, and he'll surely be questioned about how and why that could happen.

It'll be interesting to see whether the story sticks to Falconia after this or moves back to Guts' side. I think it's actually a perfect time to switch sides, but there are indeed quite a few interrogations left. Still, I don't see Griffith sending people after Rickert or anything like that. I think what Griffith told him back then on the Hill of Swords still holds: that if Rickert hated him after learning the truth, it'd be enough to repay his debt (for what he did). So I can see him letting it fly for that reason; accepting Rickert's response as his punishment for sacrificing the band and enabling the continued pursuit of his Dream.

I can see Sonia having the biggest takeaway. She's more of a Griffith zealot than Locus (U MAD BRO?), and she'll certainly want to know, from Rickert himself if necessary (and what would she think?).

Agreed. Sonia is the more independent one and I'm sure she'll be curious about it. Besides, it's not like Rickert could really withhold anything from her, even if he wanted to. I also think it might spark questions in Charlotte's mind, given that she knows quite a few things about Griffith's past life.