Author Topic: Episode 337  (Read 91497 times)

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Offline Delta Phi

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #200 on: January 15, 2015, 05:37:56 PM »
Can you tell why you think it's not possible that the skullknight can't be the former owner of the beherit ?

Think back to the Count. When he refused to sacrifice he was dragged into the Vortex of Souls, which, presumably, one does not come back from.

The god hand's member were suprised to see him survived and they are supposed to know all what is going to happen.

The God Hand have remarked about the unexpected in the past. There's actually nothing to suggest that they are all-knowing. They are just aware of causality and it's effects.

Example: If I have a hand full of diamonds and a half full of shit and ask you to choose one, I have a pretty good idea of which one you'll choose, however, it doesn't mean I know for a fact that you'll choose the diamonds. :void:
« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 12:23:11 AM by Delta Phi »

Offline Salem

Re: Episode 337
« Reply #201 on: January 15, 2015, 05:47:40 PM »
Example: If I have a hand full of diamonds and a half full of shit and ask you to choose one, I have a pretty good idea of which one you'll choose, however, it's doesn't mean I know for a fact that you'll choose the diamonds. :void:

Bahahahaha, so true.    :ubik:

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #202 on: January 15, 2015, 06:42:22 PM »
Think back to the Count. When he refused to sacrifice he was dragged into the Vortex of Souls, which, presumably, one does not come back from.

Keep in mind, though, that the Count was dying when he summoned the God Hand. Griffith, presumably, wouldn't have been dragged into the Vortex of Souls if he had refused to sacrifice the Band of the Falcon.

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #203 on: January 15, 2015, 06:46:36 PM »

 The god hand's member were surprised to see him survived and they are supposed to know all what is going to happen.


actually the godhand comments in the eclipse that they can't account every minute details and I think it's Slan that says this :" we are not gods after all" or something in the likes.  :slan:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #204 on: January 15, 2015, 06:54:12 PM »
Can you tell why you think it's not possible that the skullknight can't be the former owner of the beherit ?

For the record, I have entertained for at least 10 years the idea of the Skull Knight refusing to sacrifice because he was better than that, stronger willed than any other, etc. It's a cool idea, but it just isn't the likeliest one at this point. Let's start with the basics: the Skull Knight has historically opposed the God Hand, and has always expressed contempt for them. He's taken Guts under his wing, like a mentor of sorts. He does not have an "aura of evil" about him like apostles or members of the God Hand do. Flora has likened Guts' condition to his own. And he's very likely to have been Gaiseric while he was still human.

Now, we know for a fact that a sacrifice occurred during Gaiseric's reign, and that it likely ended said reign. But since the Skull Knight isn't affiliated with the God Hand or apostles, it couldn't have been him. What would then be the best way to tie him to the events in a manner similar to what Guts has gone through? Of course, it's to have him be among those who were sacrificed. Probably betrayed by someone close to him, in an interesting reversal of the Guts/Griffith dynamic.

Anyway, wording is important here too. Maybe Gaiseric did have a beherit in his possession at some point (as you know, Guts carries one around as well), but he was not the one who sacrificed the people at the bottom of the Tower of Rebirth.

And i really think that guts escape partially the causality. The god hand's member were suprised to see him survived and they are supposed to know all what is going to happen.

Members of the God Hand are not omniscient, nor do they manipulate causality as far as we know (that is the prerogative of the Idea of Evil). What makes Guts different from normal people (other than his iron will and superhuman fighting prowess) is the Brand. Because he was branded, he exists in the Interstice between the Corporeal and Astral worlds (note that the same applies to Casca). Having a certain hold within the Astral world allows him some leeway compared to people who are limited to the Corporeal world (this is all explained in the manga). That means resisting a trend, going against the flow, but not being free of any influence. An important nuance.

The Skull Knight actually comments on this while talking to Flora in volume 24. And indeed, let us not forget that Guts does carry a beherit around, and that beherits are directly related to the Idea of Evil. Ah, by the way, do you remember when Griffith saved the city of Vritannis from Ganishka? The Band of the Falcon defeated his armies as they were attacking the town, all the while Ganishka stayed put in his chambers. Remember who had defeated Ganishka's magic and thwarted the assault of his more monstrous troops (commanded by Daiba) just hours before, preventing Vritannis from early destruction? Yep, that's Guts and his friends. Interestingly enough, if you'll recall, that same wound that Guts had inflicted him still plagued him in Wyndham as he desparately threw himself into the "artificial beherit" in a last bid to match Griffith's power.

Oh, one last thing: who was the one who ultimately split open Ganishka, unwillingly putting the final touch to what was always the God Hand's plan? The merging of the worlds and the advent of Falconia? That's right, it was the Skull Knight. It's not what he meant to do, but it's what happened. Not so easy to beat the Idea of Evil at its own game.

Think back to the Count. When he refused to sacrifice he was dragged into the Vortex of Souls, which, presumably, one does not come back from.

He was dragged into the Vortex of Souls because he was already an apostle and was dying, not because he had refused to sacrifice. So this example can't apply here. It's just that sacrificing Theresia would have allowed him to escape his demise.

Offline Delta Phi

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #205 on: January 16, 2015, 12:22:32 AM »
Keep in mind, though, that the Count was dying when he summoned the God Hand. Griffith, presumably, wouldn't have been dragged into the Vortex of Souls if he had refused to sacrifice the Band of the Falcon.

He was dragged into the Vortex of Souls because he was already an apostle and was dying, not because he had refused to sacrifice. So this example can't apply here. It's just that sacrificing Theresia would have allowed him to escape his demise.

Noted. Great point that seems to have slip my mind. For some reason I've always assume it was the alternative. After all, the Count is the only refusal we've had the privileged of seeing.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #206 on: January 16, 2015, 01:29:56 AM »
For some reason I've always assume it was the alternative. After all, the Count is the only refusal we've had the privileged of seeing.

The alternative to accepting the sacrifice is explained by Void in Vol 12: "bury everything in the ruins of your dream. ... That is the cruel grace of the god born of man." Basically, accept our wonderful offer or go on, knowing what could have been.
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Offline Delta Phi

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #207 on: January 16, 2015, 02:32:03 AM »
The alternative to accepting the sacrifice is explained by Void in Vol 12: "bury everything in the ruins of your dream. ... That is the cruel grace of the god born of man." Basically, accept our wonderful offer or go on, knowing what could have been.

Ah, awesome! Man, why don't I remember this?! Thanks for pointing that line out, Walter.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 01:10:32 PM by Delta Phi »

Offline BeingofEvil

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #208 on: January 16, 2015, 08:36:10 AM »
Quote from: Aazealh
Now, we know for a fact that a sacrifice occurred during Gaiseric's reign, and that it likely ended said reign. But since the Skull Knight isn't affiliated with the God Hand or apostles, it couldn't have been him. What would then be the best way to tie him to the events in a manner similar to what Guts has gone through? Of course, it's to have him be among those who were sacrificed. Probably betrayed by someone close to him, in an interesting reversal of the Guts/Griffith dynamic.
I can see whole, God Hand, as Gaiseric court. For example, Void could be his mage, like Merlin of King Arthur, Slan could be his courtesan, Ubik jester and Konrad maybe herold (because his mouth looks like trumpet :D or maybe priest? because of folded hands). So they conspired against Gaiseric, Void showed them Beherit and then, they all used it together... which caused kingdom to downfall.
Beherit.

Offline Delta Phi

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #209 on: January 16, 2015, 01:09:56 PM »
I can see whole, God Hand, as Gaiseric court. For example, Void could be his mage, like Merlin of King Arthur, Slan could be his courtesan, Ubik jester and Konrad maybe herold (because his mouth looks like trumpet :D or maybe priest? because of folded hands). So they conspired against Gaiseric, Void showed them Beherit and then, they all used it together... which caused kingdom to downfall.

It's a fun idea, but the Eclipse ceremony (and thus, the birth of a new member of the God Hand) only happens once every 216 years. I think the chances of the four original members all being human at the same time is highly unlikely (impossible, from what we know). Many people have speculated that Void and Gaiseric had a special connection while they were alive, however.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #210 on: January 16, 2015, 03:58:37 PM »
On that note, let's please move this into a separate thread if you'd like to continue discussing Gaiseric and the God Hand. When this thread lights up, people generally think we're discussing the episode or future episodes.

Pretty please  :void:
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Offline Count

Re: Episode 337
« Reply #211 on: January 17, 2015, 09:29:13 AM »
Hello! I am new to this forum and before I try my luck with my first contribution, I would like to give my thanks for accepting me, and for the good work put on this website. There's no place like this in the internet so, keep up the good work  :ubik:

Now, we know for a fact that a sacrifice occurred during Gaiseric's reign, and that it likely ended said reign. But since the Skull Knight isn't affiliated with the God Hand or apostles, it couldn't have been him. What would then be the best way to tie him to the events in a manner similar to what Guts has gone through? Of course, it's to have him be among those who were sacrificed. Probably betrayed by someone close to him, in an interesting reversal of the Guts/Griffith dynamic.

I have allways thought that way, and the reversal of the Guts/Griffith dynamic, being portrayed by Gaiseric (on the assumption that he is the SkullKnight) and Void (assuming that their story is related), however, there is a "mathematical" issue that is been bugging me about this, and I hope anyone can help me, making it more clear:
 
 Each member of the GodHand were born every 216 years. Charlotte said that 1000 years ago Gaisericīs empire ended so Femtoīs birth was 1000 years after Gaisericīs end. There are 5 GodHands so; 216 multiplied by five you have 1080 years since the birth of the first God Hand which means that when Gaiseric was destroyed, the first GodHand already had 80 years "on the Job". They couldn't have met each other the way Griff and Guts did! What you guys think?

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #212 on: January 17, 2015, 11:45:57 AM »
Hello! I am new to this forum and before I try my luck with my first contribution, I would like to give my thanks for accepting me, and for the good work put on this website. There's no place like this in the internet so, keep up the good work  :ubik:

Hello and welcome!

there is a "mathematical" issue that is been bugging me about this, and I hope anyone can help me, making it more clear:
 
 Each member of the GodHand were born every 216 years. Charlotte said that 1000 years ago Gaisericīs empire ended so Femtoīs birth was 1000 years after Gaisericīs end. There are 5 GodHands so; 216 multiplied by five you have 1080 years since the birth of the first God Hand which means that when Gaiseric was destroyed, the first GodHand already had 80 years "on the Job". They couldn't have met each other the way Griff and Guts did! What you guys think?

Actually you got the numbers wrong, it's really 864 years. Year 0 (1st GH) > Year 216 (2nd GH) > Year 432 (3rd GH) > Year 648 (4th GH) > Year 864 (5th GH). Still, the problem remains that it doesn't fit a 1000 years scenario. There's no explanation for it, because we just don't have enough information about those events yet. However it's not hard to think of possible ways for it to happen, from the "1000 years" reference being a general estimation and not meant to be exact, to the first occurrence being a special case and thus not bound by the same rules.

Offline TripleJMaster3

Re: Episode 337
« Reply #213 on: January 29, 2015, 12:37:21 AM »
On a reread of the darkhorse translated version, I had been reading inaccurate translations before, I noticed that Puck mentioned that SK felt like an elf. This was right before they reach the Tower of Conviction. Not sure how significant this is but it seems to support the theory that SKs powers were given to him from the elves.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #214 on: January 29, 2015, 03:35:55 PM »
On a reread of the darkhorse translated version, I had been reading inaccurate translations before, I noticed that Puck mentioned that SK felt like an elf. This was right before they reach the Tower of Conviction. Not sure how significant this is but it seems to support the theory that SKs powers were given to him from the elves.

Or his armor. Guts' armor also came from the elves, after all.
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Offline RaffoBaffo

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #215 on: February 16, 2015, 09:19:29 PM »
I didn't want to open a new Topic just for this, so i'm posting here:

May those who accept their fate be granted happiness.
May those who defy their fate be granted glory.

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #216 on: February 16, 2015, 09:56:33 PM »
Miura's art never ceases to amaze me. It's really cool seeing Wyald drawn with his current style.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #217 on: February 16, 2015, 10:00:32 PM »
I didn't want to open a new Topic just for this, so i'm posting here:

I remember seeing that one online before, I think it was exposed in a big Japanese bookstore to celebrate the 20th anniversary of the series. Still pretty cool!

Offline RaffoBaffo

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #218 on: February 17, 2015, 01:08:38 AM »
I think it was exposed in a big Japanese bookstore to celebrate the 20th anniversary of the series. Still pretty cool!
If i recal correctly, it's a tribute for the 20th Anniversary of YA.
May those who accept their fate be granted happiness.
May those who defy their fate be granted glory.

Offline The Ruffled Swordsman

Re: Episode 337
« Reply #219 on: March 12, 2015, 07:01:04 AM »
Just finished reading this.

I thought one of the most significant panels was one that took up the whole page, of griffith and rickert staring at one another.  It hits home, and home in berserk is something that you never truly feel like you can get back to, and when you do it never seems to be what you were asking.

Griffith and Rickert standing there hit home, but it didn't bring back any good nostalgia, only a realization of what had come to pass.  Despite all the unresolved issues brought up on the way to see the nest of the war demon army, that panel was showed the resolve that would follow SLAP!

Rickert's speech managed to both bring the feelings and articulate exactly, why this motherfucker should have never asked him to be apart of the new band of the hawk in the first place.  He planted each one of those individual swords and made each tribute for his fallen comrade.

I liked how in every situation that drew a contrast between Rickert's old time with the band of the hawk, for example when he noted the difference of the capitol city, he would stare at the old badge.

And that all led up to him finding the distinction he needed within in it. 

I'm not sure Rickert knew what he was going to do ahead of time, but that panel where they stood of that took up the whole page, brought it to ahead.

It wasn't that he needed to see griffith to hear his regrets as Locus said, it was to bring it all to ahead to confront it directly.


Powerful moment. 

Offline hearTes

Re: Episode 337
« Reply #220 on: April 25, 2015, 03:35:33 PM »
Is there any news at all on Berserk episode 338?
I know Berserk reddit has a sidebar containing info regarding latest episodes but it's been like 30+ weeks, another new record!
Is Miura working on the new Berserk movie or something?

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 337
« Reply #221 on: April 25, 2015, 05:20:27 PM »
No. And there's nothing record-setting about 30 weeks.

When the release is known, you will know.
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Offline Mangetsu

Re: Episode 337
« Reply #222 on: May 09, 2015, 01:14:14 PM »
Was not sure where to post this, so i will just do it here in this thread. This is a recent drawing by Miura of Guts, which also includes his autograph of course. Probably done for a contest, in which the winner would get this drawing. This drawing also seems to be drawn with the brush, if you zoom in you can see the brush strokes. Im not sure though

Love it   :badbone:

Edit: Im not sure if it is a recent drawing or not, but it atleast seems to be one.

« Last Edit: May 09, 2015, 03:30:29 PM by Mangetsu »

Offline hearTes

Re: Episode 337
« Reply #223 on: May 09, 2015, 03:10:43 PM »
Was not sure where to post this, so i will just do it here in this thread. This is a recent drawing by Miura of Guts, which also includes his autograph of course. Probably done for a contest, in which the winenr would get this drawing. This drawing also seems to be drawn with the brush, if you zoom in you can see the brush strokes. Im not sure though

Love it   :badbone:

http://i.imgur.com/ibW9HYz.jpg

How Recent?

Offline Mangetsu

Re: Episode 337
« Reply #224 on: May 09, 2015, 03:25:08 PM »
How Recent?

My mistake, the guy who posted did not say when he was in japan just for how long he was there. 

It is from this reddit post btw.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Berserk/comments/35d90u/drawing_of_guts_in_nakano_broadway/