Author Topic: Star Wars: The Force Awakens  (Read 23656 times)

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Offline Griffith

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #75 on: December 15, 2015, 08:43:43 PM »
I'm watching it at 7pm on Thursday.

I'll refrain from sending you spoilers.

You won't have to because I'm also seeing it then, which is why I'll be ready to talk about it approximately 2-3 hours later. We can try PMing spoilers to each other depending on whose previews are longer, etc. "Oh, you won't believe this happens 38 seconds from where you're at! Sorry I spoiled it for you 30 seconds early!"

I'm out of control.
You're not alone! I realized last night in conversation with a pal how I'd been brushing it aside saying I won't watch it blah blah wait for a month or whatever but perhaps I was waiting for ANY excuse to see it sooner than that. Plus, the response from people who've seen it has been positive - link to CNN article. So it's hard not to get sucked in.
My wife actually pulled my aside last night and asked me to stop talking about the premier on Thursday night. Apparently I've been talking about the premier since November of last year

My enthusiasm actually cooled off this month, I peaked back around October/November with the tickets and new trailers, but the barrage of new TV spots and footage forced me underground and I've become strangely stoic and fatalistic since. I think part of it was the realization that such grand expectations will only lead to disappointment, after all, it's just going to be a movie, and how many times has someone set out to make something purported to be so great and that everyone will like and actually succeeded? So, by this week I almost didn't care anymore or it had almost become an obligation (it doesn't help that the logistics are going to be a nightmare =). But, the positive premiere buzz has quickened my enthusiasm once more, so I think I'm in a good place now, not too high, not too low, just ready to go. Bring it on. :daiba:

Would you guys mind tagging anything remotely resembling spoilers moving forward?

Han shot first in this continuity! :badbone:

Offline IncantatioN

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #76 on: December 15, 2015, 09:29:12 PM »
But, the positive premiere buzz has quickened my enthusiasm once more, so I think I'm in a good place now, not too high, not too low, just ready to go. Bring it on. :daiba:

From all those tweets in that CNN article, I feel like I could really only trust Pat Oswalt's tweet, reinforced by Lucas's own admission (few days ago) that it's a movie fans have been looking for. Exciting times. If only Twitter existed when The Phantom Menace came out, we could compare reactions!
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #77 on: December 15, 2015, 09:57:47 PM »
From all those tweets in that CNN article, I feel like I could really only trust Pat Oswalt's tweet

Oh yeah?

http://viewaskew.com/press/menace.html

Not that they're the same guy, but I'd say they've occupied similar perches in their times. Right now, in the words of Lucas, "Don't trust anybody."

reinforced by Lucas's own admission (few days ago) that it's a movie fans have been looking for.

Translation: It's artistically bankrupt pablum pandering to the nostalgia of the lowest common denominator! They're MY movies! :mozgus:

I can't wait until he executes the secret "Order 66" clause in the contract, revokes the rights from Disney, and bars the film from release like the theatrical versions of the original trilogy. Then we'll know it's legit. :ganishka:

Exciting times. If only Twitter existed when The Phantom Menace came out, we could compare reactions!

Well...

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/12/10/watch-fans-react-to-star-wars-the-phantom-menace-in-1999

 :farnese:

Offline RaffoBaffo

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #78 on: December 16, 2015, 12:27:17 AM »
I'm going to see it today.
Thankfully I found a Cinema with a 2D version  :serpico:
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Offline m

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #79 on: December 16, 2015, 07:01:41 PM »
So I just saw the movie. I don't know if my overall impression of the movie is a spoiler or not but I guess I better tag everything.

I think the movie was good but it wasn't great; there were things I really liked and there were others that I didn't. The story is basically A New Hope with some twists and some stuff from episodes V and VI. The locales are basically locales from other episodes in all but name, and one can't really help but be reminded of the original trilogy every step of the way, though I guess that was most likely the intention to cater to fans. I didn't quite like that there was a Death Star in the movie. I know, I know, it's not a Death Star, it's a Starkiller and it's much, much bigger. :schierke: Since they can be destroyed in basically the same way I guess they're not that different after all. I find it funny how after all these years the forces of the dark side didn't quite manage to design a Death Star thingy that is not vulnerable to the kind of attack that took down the first one. Another thing I didn't quite like was how Rey was able to accomplish so much in terms of using the force with no training whatsoever, especially when it seems to have taken Luke quite some effort to reach what I perceived as being similar levels; talk about being a natural. Speaking of Rey, I guess being in tune with the force automatically makes you at least decent when it comes to handling light sabers (I guess one could argue that she was already proficient with her own weapon and that perhaps that was a good enough start, or that perhaps she was already good with swords, but I don't really buy any of those arguments). Perhaps Kylo Ren really sucked as a fighter and that's why Rey managed to keep up both in terms of using the force and swordsmanship (and I don't think it was all due to Kylo Ren's injury). One more thing I didn't quite like was Snoke, not the character himself, but the CGI behind it, which I thought wasn't very good, but perhaps this was just an effect of the 3D screen.

Regarding the things I did like, I thought Daisy Ridley and John Boyega were really good and that they had good chemistry. I really enjoyed Rey and Finn's relationship from the very start (Finn trying to help Rey when she clearly didn't need help) to the end (when she told him that she'd see him again). If the next movies will have more adventures with Rey and Finn sign me up already. I thought Harrison Ford was quite good too and I think this movie was a good send-off for Han Solo. Also, I found the humor in the movie to be really good, there were quite a few moments that had me laughing. The nostalgia factor kind of goes both ways for me, on one hand I was constantly reminded of the original trilogy, on the other hand there were really good nostalgia moments, among which I basically count the introduction of all the (literally) old characters. One moment that stood out for me was the introduction of the Millenium Falcon, i thought it was a really good gag. finally, I thought they did a good job in terms of setting up the next movies, for example, I'm really interested in finding out where Kylo Ren goes from here, and I also wonder if we're going to learn more about Rey's story (perhaps I'm reading too much into it but I wonder why Leia hugged her so affectionately at the end).

As I mentioned at the start of this rant I thought the movie was good, so I give it three damaged Darth Vader helmets out of five.


Offline VengeanceQuest982

Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #80 on: December 17, 2015, 04:22:41 PM »
...M did you see Creed because The Force Unleashed is the second film to do what it did : honor the spirit of the original while telling its own story. The new characters Finn and Rey were instantly likable as they synched so well with the returning cast from the OT.

Offline m

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #81 on: December 17, 2015, 07:29:51 PM »
...M did you see Creed because The Force Unleashed is the second film to do what it did : honor the spirit of the original while telling its own story. The new characters Finn and Rey were instantly likable as they synched so well with the returning cast from the OT.

I haven't seen Creed, and I really want to, but it's not on theaters around here until February... :judo:

Offline MrFlibble

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #82 on: December 17, 2015, 08:00:47 PM »
My initial impression, I have mentioned a few spoilers, but not the jaw droppers.

I really liked the movie, it surpassed my expectations. The creativity involved in the creature and machine designs is astounding, you could tell there was a lot of passion involved in making the movie, I especially liked the psuedo Jawa on the Nihei looking cyborg mount that tries to steal BB8. The main characters are compelling and they play off each other very well, especially Poe Dameron, who unfortunately doesn't get a lot of attention in the third act. The humour worked well, BB8 thumbing up with a lighter was hilarious  :puck:. The First Order is a great threat, the brutality of the combat has definitely increased since Return Of The Jedi, and it's not as over the top as Revenge of the Sith. I didn't think I would like Kylo Ren, to me he seemed like a safe Darth Vader re skin, but he turned out to be an unnerving character, his abrasive untempered aggression is a good contrast to Vader's intimidating but stoic demeanor, and his past makes him very pitiful. I didn't mind the nostalgia nods, they were firmly in the background where they belonged and they didn't rub them in the audiences face.

What I didn't really like was Starkiller Base, since the plot revolved around looking for Luke, shoehorning it in felt underdeveloped and unnecessary. It's a far more advanced and powerful weapon than the Death Star, taking out planets vast distances away without having to travel to its target. However since Four and Six spent more time developing the threat, it didn't feel as interesting. I'm also a little confused about the political landscape of the galaxy, since the Rebels defeated the Empire, the dichotomy should be reversed, The First Order should be the guerrillas and the Rebellion/Republic should be the dominant force, but the Rebels for some reason only have a small group of X wings despite being in power for 30 years. Where is the Republic army? why aren't they helping? And perhaps someone who has already seen it could clarify, was it Courscant that was destroyed by Starkiller Base?

Even though I liked Snoke, I don't think there was a need to make him CGI, since his character was humanoid anyway, they could have given Serkis actual make up and the effect would be the better, it doesn't help that his character is never in the same shot as Hux and Kylo, and having him appear three times was overkill for the mysterious big bad of the new trilogy, I'd prefer if they didn't even show what he looked like for now. It's very good, I'd say on par with ROTJ, I'd recommend 2D since apart from a very patient blaster laser you don't get a lot out of the 3D.


« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 06:46:04 AM by Wenliinvictus »

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #83 on: December 17, 2015, 08:18:43 PM »
Well I guess it's a good thing I don't watch Tv since a lot of people complained about all the TV spots and commercial things going around the movie. Heck, I don't even know if I'll go see it this year. I'm a little bit disconnected with movies these days. I still want to see it though ,cause I do like Star Wars movies in general.

Offline Johnstantine

Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #84 on: December 18, 2015, 03:05:34 AM »
Just got out of the movie. Loved it all.

Offline Lawliet

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #85 on: December 18, 2015, 04:40:01 AM »
Got a confession to make: This will be my first Star Wars.  :farnese:

Will see it this weekend. Hope I won't be too confused  :???:

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Offline Griffith

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #86 on: December 18, 2015, 05:55:08 AM »
Debbie downer reporting in!

I'm ambivalent guys, which I realize isn't what anyone wants to hear about the movie. I feel this way for good reasons, though. I genuinely like the new characters and it had a lot of fun with them and their getting involved; it was like a childhood fantasy of yourself somehow joining your Star Wars heroes while playing with your toys. Problem is, that's a little too much what it felt like; fan-fiction or recycled EU, crossed with an early, awkward Star Trek: The Next Generation episode and without transcending either form. Ironically, I feel like they needed to let go of trying to be STAR WARS so much while reinventing it, to the point that the Star Warsy plot felt merely shoved on top the more organic stories of these characters and their potential is never reached because of it (I mean the plot's potential too, which contains what should be some universe shaking events but it's all covered almost as an obligatory aside, because it is). They also didn't rightly payoff the old cast; some big ideas, but opportunities missed in the execution. Basically, it's stuck somewhere between trying to capture the fun of A New Hope and the pathos of Empire and ends up being a half measure of both. I have lots more to say, some good, some bad; I could really nitpick it to death (it's not as embarrassing, but has quite a few similarities to Crystal Skull), or defend it's good intentions and boldness in other areas (it was irreverently inventive at times with character interactions). It made me smile and fascinated me at times, but it also underwhelmed and disappointed. It's a better movie than the prequels and won't shame the series the way they did, but it also doesn't really fit in with the old trilogy as much as it tries (I could feel my body rejecting it like an transplanted organ =). There's a new Star Wars, but it is what it is, a new enterprise, not my generation's, and not the natural extension to the original trilogy and antidote to the prequels some of us may have hoped.

tl;dr: From the very start of the movie I could just never quite embrace it and that alienation only grew as it went on.

Speaking of Crystal Skull, which I also saw the literal midnight show for, there was no euphoria at the end of this like with that movie. There was the usual clapping and cheers every time a classic character popped up, but at the end and during the credits I could see people quietly contemplating or debating the movie; lots of beard stroking and brow furrowing going on. I think this is mostly due to how guarded and self-aware we are about consuming this stuff these days, but it didn't exactly recreate the reaction to Star Wars in '77. =)


Update: Got caught up on the thread and m and Wenliinvictus I agree with pretty much everything you had to say, good and bad. A few other notes that popped out at me while watching:


Walter, don't read these because I know you might and ruin it for yourself. =)


I think Finn was my favorite. He was a pretty unique character and a great addition with behaviors that felt like they'd fit with the original trilogy while bringing something new. I liked that he was capable and could be quite brave, but not always, and not just because; so, his actions meant something. Even when he was being brave he could also be reckless, like lying to get back on the base. Basically, he's a scoundrel! Loved him an Han together too.

Rey was good, but she was a little more the typical stubborn heroic type, the chosen one, and somehow repeatedly her own deus ex machina.

The Millennium Falcon reveal was perfect.

I half liked Han's reprisal, he had some good humorous dialogue, but he was basically reduced to comic relief and his dramatic dialogue was clunky; Harrison Ford is in full old Indy mode here too (sorry). His exit, while the dramatic peak, could have been handled better and should have been more of the focus.

I'm still not used to big, fast-moving CGI aliens in Star Wars.

Carrie Fisher was used like a puppet of Princess General Leia, which was probably the best they could do. Speaking of puppets, Ackbar looked bad.

It was depressing seeing Leia and Han as like old, estranged divorcees with him riding in on his Harley. Overall, the old saying is true of the original trilogy cast; you can't go home again.

Why did they reveal Kylo as their son so early (I was just waiting to hear his original trilogy name btw, I thought maybe Luke, but Ben was a good choice)? It wasn't necessary to come out with it explicitly until the climax, they could have just referred to him as, well, "him" and we would have gotten the idea and saying the words during their face to face would have had more impact. Of course, they probably couldn't have resisted an "I am your father" joke then. Anyway, Kylo was compelling and has potential, but he already feels destined to be saved (him actually not being redeemable would be a good twist). Geez, this movie is like an allegory about fanboys (and girls).

3PO's introduction was perfect, too bad the payoff with Han and Leia was as awkward as... it might have really been. =)

Otherwise, 3PO and especially R2 didn't even need to be in the movie. R2 was in full McGuffin mode until the plot was over. "Hey, now he works and we can find Luke!" Couldn't that have happened any time after they got the missing part of the map? That is some convenient plot-driven garbage right there.

3PO should have been sadder about R2.

Hux looks and acts like he should be a bad guy in Animal House, not Star Wars.

Him, Phasma and Snoke amount to nothing, it's like they just made up Star Warsy names to fill in plot.

So, the entire Republic was destroyed, but it might as well just be a screen saver on your computer for all the attention paid to it and impact it had. Also, the First Order was basically destroyed as well. So much for world building. Oh well, the whole new Jedi order gone bad and Starkiller base are EU ripoffs anyway. The jokes about Death Stars and it just being bigger and there's always an exhaust port didn't help, but just highlighted how superfluous and gratuitous it was. I'll put it this way, it was already (re)done way better in Jedi.

None of that got Luke Skywalker's attention?

BTW, Luke Skywalker only gets a non-speaking cameo appearance? What a ripoff! He literally had more impact in the trailers he wasn't in. Also, not a great way to reintroduce the character at all. JJ said Luke's story is what brought him on board, well do something with it then. It was an odd way to end the movie, and just one of a few times I felt more like I was watching TV.

They should have just dropped the New Hope plot and stuck with Han and the kids dealing with Kylo and the First Order. Like imagine if during the dramatic moments of Empire they also forced in another Death Star run. It wasn't a mess, it just deluded focus from what should have been one of the biggest moments in the series, but was just a moment in the movie.

Chewie should have been howling for days after that happened...

That bugs me more than I like to think. Even though I knew it was coming... (biggest spoiler of my life)

So, Kylo's cousin Rey is already better than him? Not much drama left! How about she's really good but without training/seasoning she still needs Luke Skywalker to help her smack down that insolent pup? That would have brought the house down.

I don't really see how "The Force Awakened" or was asleep. That title, and too much else, almost seems like it was work-shopped/focus-grouped in a marketing meeting.

Not as good as Star Trek 2009, better than Into Darkness.

Better movie than the prequels, but they now strangely feel more authentic. This felt, naturally, like someone else's Star Wars related thing.

Rian Johnson can do better and has better material to work with now that all that's out of the way. Here's hoping he does. Holding back Luke was smart because he's their trump card, at least with me, but damn them for it.


Overall, the Original Trilogy is still what's Star Wars to me, and I'm putting this in the same category with everything else, good and bad, outside. Basically, it's EU, and I'm fine with that.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 08:34:48 PM by Walter »

Offline Johnstantine

Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #87 on: December 18, 2015, 04:13:21 PM »
Great points, Griff. I'm the opposite, however. I embraced it from the opening scene until the end.

I'm extremely biased though since SW has been an integral part of my life since I left my dad's ball sack.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 08:34:26 PM by Walter »

Offline Griffith

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #88 on: December 18, 2015, 04:43:07 PM »
Great points, Griff. I'm the opposite, however. I embraced it from the opening scene until the end.

I'm extremely biased though since SW has been an integral part of my life since I left my dad's ball sack.

"The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am." Re-watched the OT this week. :ganishka:

Well, I'm no less biased, and for that I don't even know if I'm going too easy on it or being unfair (I'm only holding it to the standard of my favorite movies ever from my childhood =); like did I really sit back and experience it as it was or was I so up in my head about it I was basically experiencing some paralleling meta dissonance (which the movie completely facilitates btw!). I mean, it's trying to be new and old Star Wars at once, and I actually liked the new better than their attempts to be the old, so it's like a missed opportunity on both counts? I don't know, I need to see it again with some perspective, but my first impression is it never quite rang true and my gut feeling is that's because it didn't (Immortan Joe: "MEDIOCRE!"), or worse...


Mutt Vader: "You need a teacher!"

"Part time."
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 08:34:17 PM by Walter »

Offline Johnstantine

Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #89 on: December 18, 2015, 04:59:43 PM »
"The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am." Re-watched the OT this week. :ganishka:

Well, I'm no less biased, and for that I don't even know if I'm going too easy on it or being unfair (I'm only holding it to the standard of my favorite movies ever from my childhood =); like did I really sit back and experience it as it was or was I so up in my head about it I was basically experiencing some paralleling meta dissonance (which the movie completely facilitates btw!). I mean, it's trying to be new and old Star Wars at once, and I actually liked the new better than their attempts to be the old, so it's like a missed opportunity on both counts? I don't know, I need to see it again with some perspective, but my first impression is it never quite rang true and my gut feeling is that's because it didn't (Immortan Joe: "MEDIOCRE!"), or worse...


Mutt Vader: "You need a teacher!"

"Part time."


Maybe you're trying too hard to analyze it? Or maybe you were trying too hard to immerse yourself in it?

I just didn't feel those. I let it take me by the hand and I loved the ride. I had some issues with it, but it never didn't feel like a Star Wars movie to me.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 08:34:06 PM by Walter »

Offline Griffith

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #90 on: December 18, 2015, 05:23:38 PM »
Maybe you're trying too hard to analyze it? Or maybe you were trying too hard to immerse yourself in it?

I just didn't feel those. I let it take me by the hand and I loved the ride. I had some issues with it, but it never didn't feel like a Star Wars movie to me.

The thing is, I wasn't trying, this was just what was coming to me, and while I disagree it felt like the Star Wars movies of old (or really did them justice), I think it was an entertaining movie that nobody has to be ashamed of enjoying. Like, normal people that aren't into Star Wars could like this, it might even be great entertainment, but I'm carrying too much baggage to simply enjoy it on that level. We'll see, I could be magnifying all the flaws vis a vis the OT, which are certainly there, while overlooking all it does well on it's own merits to just be a fun new Star Wars movie for a new generation. And since I plan to see it again at the next opportunity, they win either way! =)


Because I'm always interested in the Rotten Tomatoes consensus one-sentence write ups (which are sometimes amazingly insightful and on point), here's THe Force Awakens': Packed with action and populated by both familiar faces and fresh blood, The Force Awakens successfully recalls the series' former glory while injecting it with renewed energy.

Your mileage may vary on the how successful it is, but I can't disagree too much otherwise. Though, I also don't disagree with these negative summaries either:


http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_episode_vii_the_force_awakens/reviews/?sort=rotten


More random thoughts:

Was it just me, or did that Rey vs. Kylo interrogation/force battle scene come off a little rapey? Was this intentional? Is it problematic or the ultimate in fangirl empowerment and pandering? Could that unfairly shame victims because there's no such equivalent force resistance in real life? Am I just trolling at this point? But seriously, someone's going to write a sincere 1000 word blog post on this at some point?

Anyway, it was certainly a bit ridiculous after a while of watching them strain and blink at each other, but so we're all her instant force powers, like during the fight, "Oh yeah, I'll just use the force powerup and win the game!"
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 08:33:49 PM by Walter »

Offline Johnstantine

Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #91 on: December 18, 2015, 07:49:16 PM »
More random thoughts:

Was it just me, or did that Rey vs. Kylo interrogation/force battle scene come off a little rapey? Was this intentional? Is it problematic or the ultimate in fangirl empowerment and pandering? Could that unfairly shame victims because there's no such equivalent force resistance in real life? Am I just trolling at this point? But seriously, someone's going to write a sincere 1000 word blog post on this at some point?

Anyway, it was certainly a bit ridiculous after a while of watching them strain and blink at each other, but so we're all her instant force powers, like during the "Oh yeah, I'll just use the force powerup and win the game!"


No, I agree. That whole scene felt pretty forced (pun heavily fucking intended, dammit). After a while it was like, Ok, we get it, you two are strong. I can't imagine them having done that scene in less than 20 takes. It was just so awkward and felt like something you would see on some late night comedy show. It's the only part of the movie where I actually was taken out of it because it was so silly.

Offline Walter

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #92 on: December 18, 2015, 08:32:17 PM »
Spoiler tags, or it gets deleted. Pretty please.

Many users check the Recent Posts category, which shows everything that's happening, unless it's spoiler tagged. So even if you don't think it's a spoiler, please tag it, because some people are still trying to go into this movie not knowing anything about it.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Griffith

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #93 on: December 18, 2015, 11:45:20 PM »
Yeah... sorry duder, got a little carried away and didn't figure on the "Recent Posts" factor hindering you from steering clear if you wanted. :farnese:

On a related note, I can't remember more official "non-spoiler" reviews popping up than for this movie. It's like everyone had to be first and didn't want to deter anybody. I'll even tag this purposely vague joke review and my subsequent anecdote about leaving the theater: "Read our review HERE, where we don't... talk about the movie? Well, first, I really like some parts that I'm not at liberty to mention. The cinematography really stood out as visible and the sound was perfectly audible too; music included. Also, one of my favorite characters was one of the main ones, which you'd think is a good thing, but I won't reveal if that trend continued in this film or not. Finally, in conclusion, I'll let you know what I think of the ending at another time."

BTW, NBC 4 was there for the midnight shows but I haven't seen a clip pop up anywhere so we must have sucked. I also couldn't help but do the Homer Simpson bit leaving the theater: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwZRFA0cLaM

I reflexively got dirty looks from incoming moviegoers before they realized the intel was old. :ganishka:
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 12:06:24 AM by Griffith »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #94 on: December 19, 2015, 12:38:20 AM »
Here's my take, not having read or heard any other opinion on it:

I enjoyed it. It entertains and pulls all the nostalgic strings. It's also just more of the same. Dense but too long. Almost more a reboot than anything really. In fact it reminded me of the first JJ Abrams Star Trek movie. Anyway, it's what the fans always wanted, but it's kind of sad to me that it manages to be even less creative than what Lucas did with the prequels. Makes it feel like the same kind of people are doomed to keep running into the same ships, the same kind of locales, and to repeat the same plots that end the same way.

Rey and Finn are easily the best characters in the movie, in that order. It was nice to see a diverse cast (especially a badass chick), although I can't help but feel it was a bit too calculated. I'm probably too cynical. Ah and I wish they had better explained why Finn out of all the troopers suddenly revolts. As it stands it feels completely arbitrary. I enjoyed the fact Kylo Ren kinda sucks, getting all angry over everything and not even being that good at his job. That being said I wish they'd found a better looking fellow. I can see why he wears a mask.

Anyhow, I guess Han Solo finally gets the death he rightfully deserved in Episode VI, so hurray for that? Too bad we could feel it coming from the other side of the galaxy though. It's also unfortunate Carrie Fisher's plastic surgery prevents her from speaking properly. That distracted me. Other than that, past the first 5 minutes hotshot Poe Flamingo was as boring as the trailers made him look. One dimensional ace pilot. Same deal for the Chrome Trooper, what is she there for again? Maybe her face to face with the compactor will turn things around in the next movie. Lastly, "Snoke" is a terrible name. And a boring character so far.



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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #95 on: December 19, 2015, 06:31:31 AM »
Here's my take, not having read or heard any other opinion on it:

Well, be sure to read my opinion(s) for the definitive take: Whether you like the movie or not, because I'm trying both ways! :ganishka:

I enjoyed it. It entertains and pulls all the nostalgic strings. It's also just more of the same. Dense but too long. Almost more a reboot than anything really. In fact it reminded me of the first JJ Abrams Star Trek movie. Anyway, it's what the fans always wanted, but it's kind of sad to me that it manages to be even less creative than what Lucas did with the prequels.

I'm glad to hear you liked it, I was afraid I was being too kind even as I endlessly cataloged and bitched about the flaws that jumped out at me. Interesting that you mention the prequels in a kinder light as well since it also occurred to me that, while this is certainly a better movie, there was something more bold about the prequels, even in the unapologetic clumsiness of them. They dared to be downright bad like this movie never would. I think what's causing my ambivalence's is that it's trying to be all things to all people and make everybody happy. Abrams and I think Kasdan have explicitly said this, that they were trying to make something just "delightful" for literally everybody, appeal to old Star Wars fans and people that were seeing Star Wars for the first time. Well, you know what they say about trying to please everyone; I don't need the elements intended to appeal to or recreate the experience for first time viewers, and I don't think that's the natural way to go with Episode Seven organically, thus my dissatisfaction with that.

Makes it feel like the same kind of people are doomed to keep running into the same ships, the same kind of locales, and to repeat the same plots that end the same way.

Interesting way to put it, as I said above that was easily my least favorite element of it, especially since every blockbuster movie since has ripped off A New Hope so there was no reason this film needed to it so directly to establish itself as legitimate successor to STAR WARS. It just made it feel all the more derivative. The only rationale I can think of is what you said about it being like a reboot; Abrams literally wanted to recreate the original Star Wars in the process of continuing/reviving the saga. I mean, the case is all there that this was their intention, much as Ren is trying to reinvent himself as Vader and everyone else in the movie is trying to be someone from the past, rather than just laziness on their part. So, extremely uncreative or meta. Problem to me is I ultimately would have preferred a focus on Han and the new gang on the search for Skywalker. That was supposed to be the plot at the beginning after all, then the thing took a major detour down memory lane and we never got to the point until time ran out. It would have been so easy to have Luke sense the destruction of those planets ala Obi-Wan sensing Alderaan in ANH and have him leap back into action in time for the final confrontation (man did I want to see that green saber light up =). We should have seen him sensing that anyway, and/or Han's death, sometimes the movie was simply compulsive about its secrets and wanting to create some reveals at the expense of the overall experience (except where Kylo Ren and Snoke are concerned, "Yeah, your dad Han has it, sure you're up to killing him or are you a light side pussy after all? Brb gotta jump around for Planet of the Apes 3.")

Rey and Finn are easily the best characters in the movie, in that order. It was nice to see a diverse cast (especially a badass chick), although I can't help but feel it was a bit too calculated. I'm probably too cynical.

You're not being cynical at all. Abrams practically come right out with it it's so transparent, and they literally took casting cues from the Internet when there weren't enough women in that initial cast photo. But, it's all pandering anyway in the end, but instead of pandering to white males that'll see it in droves either way, he's pandering to everyone (same reason everyone that isn't old cast, like Hux, is some young-looking doofus). We're going broad, and we're going young! But they did a great job in the casting except for Hux, he sucked and added nothing but unbelievably that he's leading outfit (Sydow should have played that part). Anyway, of course Rey's the best character: she's the best mechanic, the best pilot, the best fighter, the best with the force; the best at everything! :schierke:

Ah and I wish they had better explained why Finn out of all the troopers suddenly revolts. As it stands it feels completely arbitrary. I enjoyed the fact Kylo Ren kinda sucks, getting all angry over everything and not even being that good at his job.

Agreed on both counts. Kylo is petulant Anakin done right, and thanks to acting and inference there actually seems like something more there than we even see with the simple idea that great scoundrels don't necessarily make great dads.

That being said I wish they'd found a better looking fellow. I can see why he wears a mask.

My wife agrees with you there. :carcus: I thought the look worked for the character though and I even see a superficial resemblance to Ford in there, not in handsomeness, but just certain features that further already suggested the connection from his casting.

Anyhow, I guess Han Solo finally gets the death he rightfully deserved in Episode VI, so hurray for that? Too bad we could feel it coming from the other side of the galaxy though.

Tell me about it; I read it in an untagged article, as an aside, on Making Star Wars like over a year ago. :judo:

Also, not quite the one he deserved in VI since he was supposed to die saving his friends, thus completing his arc from selfish opportunist to altruistic hero. In the context of this film it was more tragic comeuppance. Though it was a redemption for the character in the sense he was a total bore in Jedi and Ford was was completely phoning it in at that point. It was nice to see him invested and excited again, delivering the best lines and stealing scenes ("Escape now. Hug later." "That's not how the force works!" =) I still feel bad for Chewie though. =(


It's also unfortunate Carrie Fisher's plastic surgery prevents her from speaking properly. That distracted me.

Despite being a seemingly brilliant and talented woman she's clearly struggled with drugs and mental illness and come out looking/sounding rough for it. While it's too bad this was the best they could do now, look at her last year and tell me it's not a miracle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRGbJ67Ejzk

I saw this and was like YIKES! So she and the producers did an admirable job getting her prepped for this because beyond natural age she's clearly transformed drastically into almost a completely different person from the Leia character. She's only 59 but she looks almost as old as Ford, and she's seemingly aged 30 years in the last 15. Just look:

2000: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZEFznFE_Sk
2005: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ97s396kb0
2010: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqmdxFmk5a8
2013: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMSLF_NyX0Q

I wonder what combination of booze/smoke/age shot her voice too. Hamil and Ford are no prizes either at this point of course, another reason Luke should have done more in this movie while he's got something left, but Ford's in his 70's and Hamil went pretty downhill in appearance not long after Star Wars. Maybe the moral is that Carrie Fisher actually aged pretty damn well into her 40's all things considered and so the dropoff in her 50's was more steep.


Other than that, past the first 5 minutes hotshot Poe Flamingo was as boring as the trailers made him look. One dimensional ace pilot. Same deal for the Chrome Trooper, what is she there for again? Maybe her face to face with the compactor will turn things around in the next movie. Lastly, "Snoke" is a terrible name. And a boring character so far.

Yeah, those guys were rejects right out of the old EU. Poe has potential at least and wasn't really as important as the film's introduction might lead one to think, but unless Snoke is secretly Luke Skywalker in disguise ala the Wizard of Oz he's a pretty lame Palpatine clone (hopefully not literally).
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 06:45:32 AM by Griffith »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #96 on: December 19, 2015, 11:37:35 AM »
I'm glad to hear you liked it, I was afraid I was being too kind even as I endlessly cataloged and bitched about the flaws that jumped out at me.

Well it was entertaining, it's really all I can say. Hard not to enjoy seeing the Force and lightsabers in action, or even just spaceship battles. However, having read this thread, I completely agree with every criticism you or m voiced and then some. It's tempting to nitpick the movie to death. That being said, I didn't mind the Force struggle between Rey and Kylo. Didn't feel "rape-like" at all to me, or having any kind of sexual connotation. Just a harrowing mental battle between two people. I liked that scene.

Interesting that you mention the prequels in a kinder light as well since it also occurred to me that, while this is certainly a better movie, there was something more bold about the prequels, even in the unapologetic clumsiness of them. They dared to be downright bad like this movie never would.

It's actually something I've often said about the Star Wars franchise: that its main fault was not widening the scope of its universe, making it instead feel smaller over time as every detail in the original movies became a template for everything in the universe. But for what it's worth Lucas made some new things up and tried to tell a different story. Meanwhile, this is like a comic book revamp of "A New Hope". Ultimate Star Wars!

I think what's causing my ambivalence's is that it's trying to be all things to all people and make everybody happy. Abrams and I think Kasdan have explicitly said this, that they were trying to make something just "delightful" for literally everybody, appeal to old Star Wars fans and people that were seeing Star Wars for the first time. Well, you know what they say about trying to please everyone; I don't need the elements intended to appeal to or recreate the experience for first time viewers, and I don't think that's the natural way to go with Episode Seven organically, thus my dissatisfaction with that.

The whole "episode" thing is kind of a gimmick in truth. This is a sequel in name only, with the old heroes only put in there so that they can pass the torch to the new generation.

I ultimately would have preferred a focus on Han and the new gang on the search for Skywalker. That was supposed to be the plot at the beginning after all, then the thing took a major detour down memory lane and we never got to the point until time ran out.

Yeah, it would have been more rewarding for it to take a slower pace, I think. Like Finn and Rey stumbling on Han and just struggling to get to the rebel base, and at the very end they'd meet Leia. Then the big showdown between Han and Ben could have happened in the next movie. That'd have felt more like "there, this is out of the way". As it stands, the second movie could have 30 min of Luke, 10 minutes of Leia and from then on, full on new cast. Which is fine, why not, but that's not how a proper sequel is constructed. Then again, it would have probably been difficult (and very expensive) to get Harrison Ford in two movies).

sometimes the movie was simply compulsive about its secrets and wanting to create some reveals at the expense of the overall experience (except where Kylo Ren and Snoke are concerned, "Yeah, your dad Han has it, sure you're up to killing him or are you a light side pussy after all? Brb gotta jump around for Planet of the Apes 3.")

Lol yeah, I had been spoiled Kylo Ren's identity on Wednesday (like, hours after the theater openings in the US) on some news site's comments section, but given how casually and early on it's revealed that was barely a spoiler at all. Strange choice.

You're not being cynical at all. Abrams practically come right out with it it's so transparent, and they literally took casting cues from the Internet when there weren't enough women in that initial cast photo. But, it's all pandering anyway in the end, but instead of pandering to white males that'll see it in droves either way, he's pandering to everyone (same reason everyone that isn't old cast, like Hux, is some young-looking doofus). We're going broad, and we're going young! But they did a great job in the casting except for Hux, he sucked and added nothing but unbelievably that he's leading outfit (Sydow should have played that part). Anyway, of course Rey's the best character: she's the best mechanic, the best pilot, the best fighter, the best with the force; the best at everything! :schierke:

Teen Star Wars! Yeah Hux is really, really lame. Completely unbelievable. And yeah they do make Rey the absolute best at everything. :ganishka:

Agreed on both counts. Kylo is petulant Anakin done right, and thanks to acting and inference there actually seems like something more there than we even see with the simple idea that great scoundrels don't necessarily make great dads. [...] My wife agrees with you there. :carcus: I thought the look worked for the character though and I even see a superficial resemblance to Ford in there, not in handsomeness, but just certain features that further already suggested the connection from his casting.

I don't really see the resemblance but it's fine, and yeah I enjoyed his acting at least; he played his part well. I already dread whatever lame motivation they'll find to justify why he betrayed his family to join the bad guys, though.

Tell me about it; I read it in an untagged article, as an aside, on Making Star Wars like over a year ago. :judo:

Also, not quite the one he deserved in VI since he was supposed to die saving his friends, thus completing his arc from selfish opportunist to altruistic hero. In the context of this film it was more tragic comeuppance. Though it was a redemption for the character in the sense he was a total bore in Jedi and Ford was was completely phoning it in at that point. It was nice to see him invested and excited again, delivering the best lines and stealing scenes ("Escape now. Hug later." "That's not how the force works!" =)

Awww, sorry to hear about that. But honestly it was so predictable that I expected it despite not having been spoiled that part. Anyway, you're right that it's actually not quite what Ep VI could have been, and it was in a way almost a death of convenience for the character. Not unlike Obi-Wan's, but with an even thinner justification. Speaking of Obi-Wan, who was the dude at the beginning even supposed to be? Because he just came across as a Kenobi lookalike to me.

Despite being a seemingly brilliant and talented woman she's clearly struggled with drugs and mental illness and come out looking/sounding rough for it. While it's too bad this was the best they could do now, look at her last year and tell me it's not a miracle

I saw this and was like YIKES! So she and the producers did an admirable job getting her prepped for this because beyond natural age she's clearly transformed drastically into almost a completely different person from the Leia character. She's only 59 but she looks almost as old as Ford, and she's seemingly aged 30 years in the last 15. Just look:

I wonder what combination of booze/smoke/age shot her voice too. Hamil and Ford are no prizes either at this point of course, another reason Luke should have done more in this movie while he's got something left, but Ford's in his 70's and Hamil went pretty downhill in appearance not long after Star Wars. Maybe the moral is that Carrie Fisher actually aged pretty damn well into her 40's all things considered and so the dropoff in her 50's was more steep.

Damn, yeah she did deteriorate super fast at some point, although I'm still not sure I like her better now compared to a year ago. And Ford's no prize either, that's for sure. He's just too old now. Too bad, makes me wonder what might have been if these new movies at been made in the 2000s, when they were still fresh (well, save for Mark Hamill lol).

Yeah, those guys were rejects right out of the old EU. Poe has potential at least and wasn't really as important as the film's introduction might lead one to think, but unless Snoke is secretly Luke Skywalker in disguise ala the Wizard of Oz he's a pretty lame Palpatine clone (hopefully not literally).

Hahaha, dude that's exactly what went through my head for the whole movie. The Wizard of Oz reference feels obvious and for him to be Luke is basically the only cool explanation there could be. Unfortunately given the movie's content that's pretty clearly not happening, so... Either a Palpatine clone or just a dude they pulled out of a hat. Oh well.

By the way, one thing that was really jarring to me is how contrived the political picture is. The First Order controls the remnants of the old empire's fleet and troops, but there's a Republic? And there's still rebels? What? Someone said it in the thread, but the First Order should be the ones facing a bigger opponent and not the other way around. Felt kind of ridiculous, and what to say of the Republic's significance when it was blown away in 2 minutes as a test run for the SUPER DEATHSTAR MAX 3000? It felt like they had to acknowledge the Republic but wanted to get rid of it as soon as possible.

P.S. Kylo's sword design is still stupid.

Offline Slime_Beherit

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #97 on: December 19, 2015, 08:51:55 PM »
Well at least we found out how the King of the Flower Storm looks, I can't wait for Luke to cure Casca. Seriously though, it must be pretty cool for Miura to have his main character arrive at skellig in the same year as the Star Wars protagonist.

Offline NightCrawler

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #98 on: December 19, 2015, 09:01:15 PM »
It's funny how i've been reading a lot of complains over the politics in this movie. George Lucas knew what the fans wanted all along.  :ganishka:
Berserk isn't really "dark fantasy" either. It's plain fantasy
Miura has been very protective of Berserk

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #99 on: December 19, 2015, 09:14:23 PM »
Otherwise, 3PO and especially R2 didn't even need to be in the movie. R2 was in full McGuffin mode until the plot was over. "Hey, now he works and we can find Luke!" Couldn't that have happened any time after they got the missing part of the map? That is some convenient plot-driven garbage right there.

And I don't think it was the only instance...

The thing is, I wasn't trying, this was just what was coming to me, and while I disagree it felt like the Star Wars movies of old (or really did them justice), I think it was an entertaining movie that nobody has to be ashamed of enjoying.

My opinion on this is closer to Johnstantine's. I came out of the theater thinking that this was indeed a Star Wars movie, for better or worse. But perhaps I need to mention that I didn't like the original trilogy as much as many other people did, and I didn't hate the prequels as many people did, so most likely my biases are different than Johnstantine's and yours. I recently watched all six movies, the prequels for only the second time, and my opinion didn't change overall. This time around it was clear to me that the prequels were worse than I thought on first viewing, but I didn't hate them.

It was nice to see a diverse cast (especially a badass chick), although I can't help but feel it was a bit too calculated.

I hear you, but I want to take it as a step in the right direction anyway.

Ah and I wish they had better explained why Finn out of all the troopers suddenly revolts.

I just assumed that the conditioning all Storm Troopers are subjected to doesn't stick the same way on all of them. But perhaps this is something that will be expanded on next time? Who knows, this could be the key to the next episodes just as Jar-Jar Binks was for the prequels. :troll: Kidding aside, it would have been interesting to have more information on this. On a related note, I think not explaining things in a good way is something I think this movie did on a few counts. I also got the feeling that the final movie ended up being a lot shorter that what it was meant to be, which is perhaps why some things are not as clear as they could be.

P.S. Kylo's sword design is still stupid.

I couldn't agree more. It was nice that he used the special design during a fight, but still.

One final thought: it would be great to listen to a Skullcast about this movie. Just sayin'...  :carcus: