Author Topic: Love in Berserk (Guts and Casca and others)  (Read 16732 times)

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Offline Vixen Comics

Love in Berserk (Guts and Casca and others)
« on: February 14, 2015, 04:30:16 PM »
Since today is Valentines Day I thought it might be interesting to discuss the love relationships in Berserk and delve into them a little bit. The most prominent one of course being Guts and Casca but they're also other relationships that have cropped up in Berserk as well.

You have luca and Jerome who, after Guts and Casca probably have the most genuine affection and consensual sex of all the Berserk characters. Jerome seems to look upon Luca with genuine affection and wants her by his side. He does not seem to look down on her for her "profession" and seems to value her quite a bit.

There is the recent development of Rickert and his attachment to Erica. I can not say much on this yet because I have read the issue were he comes back in full, but he seems to care for her very much beyond just her safety.

And then there was the unrequited love that Judeau had for Casca during the Golden Age arc. I always found his feelings for her interesting. He was so devoted to her but never made a move to express them to her...until it was too late. Which is one the more tragic aspects of his character. But what exactly was it that he loved about Casca so much? Was it just because she was the only female among them? I have a feeling Judeau took it upon himself a lot when Casca first joined the Falcons to help her out a lot. It is sad that his affection for Casca were just one sided.

Actually there are a lot of one sided feelings for one person in Berserk. Farnese and her feelings for Guts are quite one sided, and she agreed to marry Roderick to help Guts and his situation. However there have been some pretty genuine moments that have been shared between Roderick and Farnese, and I am wondering if Farnese will eventually fall for him and abandon her affection for Guts once Casca comes back. Or if she will continue to pine for Guts. There are also places where I have seen in the fandom that would like Guts give Farnese a chance. I wonder what Miura has planned for all this, will he dodge this all together and just have Farnese and Roderick become more serious? Farnese seems to pine for Guts in part it seems because she does not have something special to have with him like Schierke has with Guts. 

Then there is Schierke and the little crush she has on Guts. She is young and is content with what she already shares with him. I have heard fans speculate that Isidro and Schierke have some affection for one another, and fans expect that they will eventually come together. Or at least I have seen fans say that they hope they would.


And of course there is Guts and Casca. a lot of Berserk shows Guts undying love and devotion for Casca even though she is in a state where she cannot return it to him. It was beautiful thing to see Guts and Casca's affection grow for each other in the Golden age Arc. What I miss most about their relationship is how much respect and admiration Guts had for Casca's strength and prowess as a leader and warrior. Right when the eclipse happened before the God Hand show up, there is a moment where Guts just stops to admire how incredible Casca is in the face of the unknown terrain they are in and keeps the Falcons from panicking. And it was beautiful seeing Casca go from someone who mistrusted Guts to falling in love with him. A lot of fans seem to misunderstand her actions in pushing Guts away to take care of Griffith, but she was just as much looking out for his interests as she was Griffith's. She was taking into consideration Guts's desire of not stay with the hawks and be on his own, and I have no doubt she felt that if he stayed it would be going against what he told her what he wanted to do. She was trying to protect that. I also enjoyed the playful banter between them. It is funny how their interactions do not completely change after they come to an understanding after the cave incident. Before Guts would annoy Casca by being reckless and she would chew him out for it...that does not actually change between them even after they come to an understanding and even hook up with each other a year after he comes back to the Falcons. I thought that aspect of their relationship was interesting that Miura did that. It proves (to me any way) that Casca is the perfect person for Guts because she is willing to call him out on things and make him stop and think...who else can really do that?

We are at a point where we are about to have Casca's insanity addressed and I wonder just what is in store for these two. Are we ever going to see the dynamics between them return to what is was right when they hooked up or is it going to be more conflict between them? I hope the issue between them can be resolved on elfhelm and that Casca will understand why Guts wants her healthy and whole again and by his side and not get angry at him for "restoring her". This has concerned me the most about the present state of their relationship.I miss the admiration Guts had for Casca, and I wonder if he will ever get the chance to feel that admiration for her strengths again. She is disempowered right now, and I not think she is going to be super charged like she was right before the ecplise (not right away). I have actually never been more emotionally invested in a couple than I have Guts and Casca.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 06:04:12 PM by Vixen Comics »
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Love in Berserk (Guts and Casca and others)
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2015, 05:40:03 PM »
That's a good initiative, Vixen. Feels appropriate. :guts: I commented on some of what you said below, for the sake of fostering discussion.

Jerome seems to look upon Luca with genuine affection and wants her by his side.

In that regard, it'll be interesting to see if Jerome makes an appearance or is at least mentioned in the future.

There is the recent development of Rickert and his attachment to Erica. I can not say much on this yet because I have read the issue were he comes back in full, but he seems to care for her very much beyond just her safety.

I think they're still a bit young for a fully-fledged love story (Erica's age in particular is a bit of an enigma to me), but yeah, that's clearly where it's going.

I have a feeling Judeau took it upon himself a lot when Casca first joined the Falcons to help her out a lot.

Maybe. Who knows? We know he was there, but she doesn't mention him to Guts during her flashback.

I wonder what Miura has planned for all this, will he dodge this all together and just have Farnese and Roderick become more serious? Farnese seems to pine for Guts in part it seems because she does not have something special to have with him like Schierke has with Guts.

It's hard to be sure what will become of Roderick, for example what role he'd play if he stayed around till the end (no doubt Miura's having fun with that one), but I definitely don't believe Farnese will end up with Guts. Now she's come a long way, and she's a great person in many ways, but she's just not for him. Not in the way Casca is. Casca is a complex character with some fragility and all that, but at her core she was a warrior and a leader, and this is key to Guts' attraction to her. Besides that, it'd just feel pretty terrible if their love was just thwarted after all this time, and I simply don't see Miura going for that.

But to come back to Farnese, I think you got it backwards about why she loves Guts. Schierke also has a crush on him, but she knows she's too young and she knows he deeply loves Casca. So she found solace in the fact they have a unique bond, something no one else shares with him. That's a coping mechanism for the fact her love was unrequited, not something that explains why she doesn't "pine" for him like Farnese does. She did have feelings (and might still do), but she just realized it wasn't going to happen. Farnese hasn't come to that realization yet, or at least hasn't accepted it.

It's true that she doesn't have a special thing to share with him that could ease things, and that might not be enough anyway. She and Schierke are very different people. She's a grown woman for one, but more importantly Guts was pivotal in bringing about a lot of changes in her. He was the one who turned her life around, changed her entire belief system, changed who she is pretty much, making her a better person in the process. He's half father-figure, half idolized ideal man (not unlike what Griffith was to Casca in her youth). So with that in mind, her feelings for him have always felt natural to me. But I also think she'll be able to see that as important as he is to her, he might not be meant to be her lover.

I have heard fans speculate that Isidro and Schierke have some affection for one another, and fans expect that they will eventually come together. Or at least I have seen fans say that they hope they would.

I'm among the first ones (if not the first) to have said that they'd end up together. They're just so different and yet they grudgingly work well together... To me, the writing's on the wall. Even their meeting with Isma served as a means to advance their relationship. It's just a matter of time! :beast:

Right when the eclipse happened before the God Hand show up, there is a moment where Guts just stops to admire how incredible Casca is in the face of the unknown terrain they are in and keeps the Falcons from panicking.

Yeah, I really like that moment too.

And it was beautiful seeing Casca go from someone who mistrusted Guts to falling in love with him. A lot of fans seem to misunderstand her actions in pushing Guts away to take care of Griffith, but she was just as much looking out for his interests as she was Griffith's. She was taking into consideration Guts's desire of not stay with the hawks and be on his own, and I have no doubt she felt that if he stayed it would be going against what he told her what he wanted to do. She was trying to protect that.

Indeed. Throughout all of it, she put Guts' interests before her own. She was willing to sacrifice her life and happiness out of loyalty for Griffith, but not willing for Guts to do the same. It's all very altruistic.

It proves (to me any way) that Casca is the perfect person for Guts because she is willing to call him out on things and make him stop and think...who else can really do that?

He needs a woman who will not hesitate to sock him in the jaw so he'll stop and listen to what she's saying. In a way I feel that Miura's already prepared the terrain for the band to be amazed when it happens, when you see how he's been behaving with them. Schierke crying out about the danger and him just going anyway, this kind of stuff.

Are we ever going to see the dynamics between them return to what is was right when they hooked up or is it going to be more conflict between them?

To be honest, I can't think of an alternative that wouldn't be disappointing.

Offline Kraden

Re: Love in Berserk (Guts and Casca and others)
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2015, 05:41:20 PM »
I'm having such a super tough time talking about feelings and love in english, didn't know it would be so problematic to me. Hope what I wrote still made sense.


Farnese's infatuation with Guts reminds me strongly of Casca's feelings for Griffith. Considering what we know of her past, it may very well be the first time she experiences these kinds of feelings. I think it will naturally fade with time, especially with Roderick around. Farnese finds Guts very attractive, badass and looks up to him but this is more worship than love to me. Not having been in love yet as far as we know, it may be hard for her to tell the difference, but this could very well come with Roderick. Having a badass handsome man interested in her, willing to learn everything about her, wanting to know her and have her at his side, wanting to please her will give her the opportunity to dwelve deeper into romantic feelings and realise that her infatuation to Guts wasn't so serious after all.

Schierke seems to be in the same situation that Farnese. It's the first time she's confronted to these feelings, he is the first man to have such an effect on her but I don't think it's really deep and serious feelings. Guts is more of a father figure to her and she could have difficulty telling the difference.
 About her and Isidro I think they could very well develop these kinds of feelings towards each other but not yet. After a few years of adventure, saving each other's lives, outgrowing their immature quirks, getting more mature and confident. When Isidro will be a grown up man, most likely badass and pretty ripped, he could very well be a suitable love interest for Schierke.
The same thing goes for Isidro. I have noticed that his demeanor seemed to change since Isma is on the boat. He gets worried for her, wants to protect her. This may point to what kind of man he could grow into : determinated (he really trains hard to improve his fighting skills, and it pays off), concerned (as seen with Isma), ambitious. Could quite appeal to an adult Schierke. She may have a hard time finding a better suitor than an adult Isidro.

Judeau never really had a chance to be with Casca. At first she was way too infatuated with Griffith to be with someone else. When she began to outgrow it, she was attracted to Guts. Judeau probably also had some self deprecation issues, thinking (maybe rightfully) that he was not the man she needed. Casca being the most badass woman he met, as far as we know, his feelings for her make sense.

The relationship between Jerome and Luca doesn't seem very serious. They both look pretty mature, knowing full well what kind of crapsack world they live in. Jerome seems to genuinely have feelings and esteem for her, wanting to keep her with him, but not really to love her. He likes having her by his side and wants to take her with him, but I don't think it's really more than that. Luca does not take his promises too seriously, being most likely used to this kind of talk. She thinks he's a good man, but not really much more to me. It looks like a very mature relationship to me, with the two of them not getting too carried away by feelings.


Guts and Casca. This is one of the best couples I have seen in fiction. It really makes sense to me for them to be in love with each other. Casca is the first and only woman Guts has had such esteem for. She's a strong warrior, great leader, strong woman overall. And he feels comfortable with her, able to open himself, able to allow her to help him with his issues and emotional injuries.
Casca also has good reasons to love Guts. He does not hesitate to put his life on the line for her, he is really concerned about her and respects her a lot. He's not after her for her body and beauty but for who she is. And he is badass on his own.
I have no idea what will unfold if/when she regains her senses but I am very curious to see them interact with the child.


And what about the Charlotte/Griffith couple?  :ganishka: There is definitely love involved, even if only one-sided.

Offline Vixen Comics

Re: Love in Berserk (Guts and Casca and others)
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2015, 07:20:10 PM »
And what about the Charlotte/Griffith couple?  :ganishka: There is definitely love involved, even if only one-sided.

I completely forgot about the Griffith and Charlotte thing. Charlotte is definitely in love with Griffith that is obvious but I am starting to wonder how she would react to Griffith if she found out about his true reasons for coming back healthy and whole again. Would she fear him and look at him differently maybe even be little repulsed? I noticed she does not question in the least his sudden transformation from a pitiful invalid to the glory he used to be. Actually taking his sorry state after his year in the torture chamber into account I am impressed by Charlotte being willing to still be with him even in that state. It shows her feelings for him were not shallow at all.

And then there is Griffith feelings for Charlotte. This has always been an enigma to me because I cannot tell if he has any affection toward her or if she is just a tool to him. He had Zodd go get her and has her by his side now when it was not really necessary. Was it just to spite her father for torturing him for a year?

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The relationship between Jerome and Luca doesn't seem very serious. They both look pretty mature, knowing full well what kind of crapsack world they live in. Jerome seems to genuinely have feelings and esteem for her, wanting to keep her with him, but not really to love her. He likes having her by his side and wants to take her with him, but I don't think it's really more than that. Luca does not take his promises too seriously, being most likely used to this kind of talk. She thinks he's a good man, but not really much more to me. It looks like a very mature relationship to me, with the two of them not getting too carried away by feelings.

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In that regard, it'll be interesting to see if Jerome makes an appearance or is at least mentioned in the future

You mean Jerome wasn't with Luca at Falconia?  I haven't read this episode yet. I was hoping.

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Maybe. Who knows? We know he was there, but she doesn't mention him to Guts during her flashback.

It seems like it would be in character for him to do something like that. Also I don't think Casca not mentioning him does not mean he did not. Some of her back story of how she became a soldier had to of been abridged

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Judeau never really had a chance to be with Casca. At first she was way too infatuated with Griffith to be with someone else. When she began to outgrow it, she was attracted to Guts. Judeau probably also had some self deprecation issues, thinking (maybe rightfully) that he was not the man she needed. Casca being the most badass woman he met, as far as we know, his feelings for her make sense.

I disagree that Judeau had self deprecation issues, he was just a realist and knew his limitations. I think Casca cared for Judeau deeply as a friend, he definitely more than just a fellow comrade in arms to her. I just wonder if Casca, in Judeau's last moments figured out that he loved her, or if she did not if she ever will upon reflection of his last moments when she is restored. Also I noticed that Casca seemed extremely affected when Judeau finally died in her arms. I have seem some fans speculate that this is when she started to lose it (I do not fully agree with this but it is food for thought). Also, I do have one instance that perplexed me about Judeau. It seemed like, when Guts showed up after a year being gone, that he was trying to get Guts to hook up with Casca, then the next day when they go off get Griffith, there is a panel where Judeau notices Casca and Guts smiling at each other and for some reason he does not look pleased about that. Wasn't that what he was going for?

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But to come back to Farnese, I think you got it backwards about why she loves Guts. Schierke also has a crush on him, but she knows she's too young and she knows he deeply loves Casca. So she found solace in the fact they have a unique bond, something no one else shares with him. That's a coping mechanism for the fact her love was unrequited, not something that explains why she doesn't "pine" for him like Farnese does. She did have feelings (and might still do), but she just realized it wasn't going to happen. Farnese hasn't come to that realization yet, or at least hasn't accepted it.

It's true that she doesn't have a special thing to share with him that could ease things, and that might not be enough anyway. She and Schierke are very different people. She's a grown woman for one, but more importantly Guts was pivotal in bringing about a lot of changes in her. He was the one who turned her life around, changed her entire belief system, changed who she is pretty much, making her a better person in the process. He's half father-figure, half idolized ideal man (not unlike what Griffith was to Casca in her youth). So with that in mind, her feelings for him have always felt natural to me. But I also think she'll be able to see that as important as he is to her, he might not be meant to be her lover

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Farnese's infatuation with Guts reminds me strongly of Casca's feelings for Griffith

I have seen this come up quite a number of times in fandom about there being a similarity between Farnese's feeling for Guts and Casca's feelings for Griffith. Why do you think Miura might be writing it that way? And where do you suppose he is going to take it? I wonder if Miura intends to have Casca intimately understand how Guts felt when he was brought into the Falcons by having her be in a similar situation as him. Casca will be coming into a new situation essentially as an outsider into Guts new assembled band, like Guts was when he was brought (against his will) into the Falcons...it has been alluded to that Casca might be being "brought back" against her will as well. I do not see Farnese being hostile toward Casca, like Casca was with Guts when he came into the band, but Farnese is in a similar situation that Casca was when Guts came along.

As far as Guts and Casca are concerned my biggest worry is how she will feel about being brought back and how their relationship will be after that fact. I think I have had blinds on when it comes to this, because for the longest time I have seen Guts actions as him "rescuing" her from her situation. I never considered that Casca may not want to come back or be thankful for it. I did not really consider Skull Knights warning to be related to her feelings on the subject. I guess I just can't imagine Casca being stuck in a infantile state by choice. I really hope that is not the case, I would be disappointed if she does not want to come back and help Guts out... but I guess it has to be considered that Casca went insane for a reason. I just hope Miura throws us Casca+Guts fans a bone and resolves it in a way good way. After all this I want to see some pay off.

One love relationship that was one sided that I failed to address was one sided love of Casca for Griffith. She truly loved him and she was fiercely protective (and territorial)  of him. I do not think those emotions were fake at all as much as some fans might try to down play it. Casca loved Griffith. She worshiped him and held up as the perfect man. She even shared a private emotionally vulnerable moment with him when she came upon him in the lake after his night with Gennon.  And before Guts came Griffith seemed to trust her with dark things like that. I do not think Griffith would have told her about his night with Gennon if she had not stumbled across him on the balcony or the lake but I do not think he would have allowed himself to get that emotional in front of any one other than Casca. That was genuine. Also even after Casca and Guts got closer to each other after they fell off the cliff together, Casca was still very much affected when she thought Griffith had been poisoned. Look at how she runs into his arms after he walk in with Guts. I think Casca really loved Griffith. Before the eclipse I think it can be broken down that Casca loved Griffith, but was in love with Guts. Which makes me wonder how things are going to play out when she is forced to return. I do not believe she will go running to his side  or what ever but I wonder how it will affect her willingness to confront him. 
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Love in Berserk (Guts and Casca and others)
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2015, 08:24:45 PM »
And then there is Griffith feelings for Charlotte. This has always been an enigma to me because I cannot tell if he has any affection toward her or if she is just a tool to him. He had Zodd go get her and has her by his side now when it was not really necessary. Was it just to spite her father for torturing him for a year?

As he currently is, it doesn't seem that Griffith feels much in general, for anyone or anything. So it's doubtful that he loves her, and even more unlikely that he'd do anything simply to spite her long dead father.

You mean Jerome wasn't with Luca at Falconia?  I haven't read this episode yet. I was hoping.

He is not shown or mentioned. However that doesn't mean he won't be in the future. I think Kraden's view of their relationship is a bit too cynical compared to how it's portrayed in the story.

It seems like it would be in character for him to do something like that. Also I don't think Casca not mentioning him does not mean he did not. Some of her back story of how she became a soldier had to of been abridged

Well let's just say that it's just pure conjecture. That he was friendly and helpful seems obvious, as that was his general personality, but from what we know Casca looked up to Griffith the most, was closest to him, and indeed rose to be his second-in-command, surpassing Judo in the process.

I disagree that Judeau had self deprecation issues, he was just a realist and knew his limitations.

That's pretty debatable. He had his chance during the year when they were on the run and he didn't take it. Not trying has never gotten anyone anything.

I just wonder if Casca, in Judeau's last moments figured out that he loved her, or if she did not if she ever will upon reflection of his last moments when she is restored.

Nothing seems to indicate that she did. Maybe if she were to think back about it...

Also I noticed that Casca seemed extremely affected when Judeau finally died in her arms. I have seem some fans speculate that this is when she started to lose it (I do not fully agree with this but it is food for thought).

I'd say she was normally affected... It's not like you're expected to keep your composure in a case like that. But there isn't really anything justifying the idea that her current mental illness started then as opposed to when Femto violated her. It wouldn't make much sense from a storytelling perspective.

Also, I do have one instance that perplexed me about Judeau. It seemed like, when Guts showed up after a year being gone, that he was trying to get Guts to hook up with Casca, then the next day when they go off get Griffith, there is a panel where Judeau notices Casca and Guts smiling at each other and for some reason he does not look pleased about that. Wasn't that what he was going for?

I think it's a relatively neutral expression, that just shows he's on to them. But beyond that, if we consider that he was in love with her, it seems natural that he'd feel some disappointment. In this regard, considering how he pushed Guts to go for her, it's indeed hard to be fully sympathetic with him over his secret love.

I have seen this come up quite a number of times in fandom about there being a similarity between Farnese's feeling for Guts and Casca's feelings for Griffith. Why do you think Miura might be writing it that way? And where do you suppose he is going to take it?

I don't think there's a specific reason, it's just a similar situation but with vastly different circumstances having led up to it. As for where it's going, I think Farnese will be a loyal and steadfast ally for Guts.

I wonder if Miura intends to have Casca intimately understand how Guts felt when he was brought into the Falcons by having her be in a similar situation as him. Casca will be coming into a new situation essentially as an outsider into Guts new assembled band, like Guts was when he was brought (against his will) into the Falcons...it has been alluded to that Casca might be being "brought back" against her will as well. I do not see Farnese being hostile toward Casca, like Casca was with Guts when he came into the band, but Farnese is in a similar situation that Casca was when Guts came along.

That's not a bad comparison, but I think things will be very different just based on the people and context involved. They all know Casca already in a way, even if she doesn't know them. And she's got a bond with Guts that goes beyond friendship (which includes their shared past and shared pains), and everyone tacitly understands that. But more importantly, Guts is not the man Griffith was, and this small band has very different interpersonal dynamics than what a bigger group like a band of mercenaries would have. It's more of a "family", as it's been said in the manga. That being said, it'll be very interesting to see Casca "meet" all these new people and adapt to this group.

I just hope Miura throws us Casca+Guts fans a bone and resolves it in a way good way. After all this I want to see some pay off.

I wouldn't be too worried if I were you. Obviously there'll be complications and ordeals and such, but love always triumphs, right? :slan:

Also even after Casca and Guts got closer to each other after they fell off the cliff together, Casca was still very much affected when she thought Griffith had been poisoned. Look at how she runs into his arms after he walk in with Guts. I think Casca really loved Griffith. Before the eclipse I think it can be broken down that Casca loved Griffith, but was in love with Guts. Which makes me wonder how things are going to play out when she is forced to return. I do not believe she will go running to his side  or what ever but I wonder how it will affect her willingness to confront him.

Casca was very loyal to Griffith until the end, but I don't think it makes much sense to say she still loved him (and was "in love with" Guts, this seems like a very vague and meaningless distinction) right until the Eclipse occurred. Was she in love with him at some point in her life? Definitely. Did she outgrow those feelings over time due to several factors (her growing more mature, Griffith's disinterest, Guts' appearance...), eventually not having them anymore? Definitely as well. By the time he pushed himself on her in the cart, she wasn't enamored with Griffith anymore. Her feelings for him had evolved into something else. I think the manga makes it all pretty clear.

Offline Kraden

Re: Love in Berserk (Guts and Casca and others)
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2015, 12:17:09 AM »
Femto marrying Charlotte helps solidifying his rule as unquestionable. That's why he rescued her with Zodd's assistance. This is also why he summoned the church's ruler. Once married to Charlotte no one can pretend in any way that his rule is not legitimate.

I don't think he has any feelings for her, or that he had any as Griffith to begin with. Even when he went to her room he kept thinking about Guts's departure during the act. He clearly went to her for solace and I don't think he found what he was looking for, seeing how he cried afterwards. Not really how I would have pictured Griffith sharing an intimate moment with someone he had feelings for.

Well, if Judeau had feelings for Casca it makes sense for him to be hurt when she and Guts smile to each other. He helped them get closer, this is what he wanted, but it does not make it easy to watch for him.

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I have seen this come up quite a number of times in fandom about there being a similarity between Farnese's feeling for Guts and Casca's feelings for Griffith. Why do you think Miura might be writing it that way?
Because it seems realistic to me. The age gap between Farnese/Guts and Casca/Griffith seem about the same. They have probably never seen men as badass as them before, men who saved their lives. Men they look up to. Men they follow. It would have surprised me if Farnese did not develop feelings for Guts.

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And where do you suppose he is going to take it?
I think Farnese will outgrow it with Roderick. To me this is one of the reasons this character was introduced. She will most likely always keep Guts in a tender corner of her heart but who wouldn't? He's badass, totally devoted to the one he loves, even after years without her returning his affection. After some time with his new band and getting closer to the decent guy he used to be, he was even supportive of Farnese (as seen when she was healing him in the boat). I would be surprised if she lost all feelings for him in the future.

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I wonder if Miura intends to have Casca intimately understand how Guts felt when he was brought into the Falcons by having her be in a similar situation as him. Casca will be coming into a new situation essentially as an outsider into Guts new assembled band, like Guts was when he was brought (against his will) into the Falcons...
I think it was already the case in the Falcons. Being a woman she was most likely an outsider too at first. Having to prove harder than men that she deserved her place in the army. Not so unlike Guts when he fought his first battle. Being such a badass he may even have had an easier time than Casca integrating in the Falcons, gaining their trust and respect.

I think this is one of the things that made their relationship work. From their time together in the cave, when she opened herself to him, they were both able to relate to each other. Casca is quite like him, a survivor, fighting since childhood, badass enough to be the second strongest of the Falcons despite her young age.


I forgot to talk about Erica and Rickert. Well I don't think Rickert will ever grow to be romantically attracted to Erica. He really behaves like a big brother. Erica could grow to have feelings for him, kind of like Farnese for Serpico, but I highly doubt he'll ever share these feelings. It makes more sense to me that Rickert ends up with someone else.
Maybe Schierke, why not? He's reliable, humble, smart, more than capable of defending himself. He could be attractive to her.

Offline JMP

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Re: Love in Berserk (Guts and Casca and others)
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2015, 05:47:01 PM »
One thing that I thought was really exceptional storytelling was the way the love scene between Guts and Casca was done. Things took a disturbing turn when Guts lost it and started choking Casca. Miura does not try to gloss over Guts' past trauma or how broken Guts is, but instead shows that he is still very much affected by his past and uses this encounter between Guts and Casca to not only bring the two characters closer together, but also as an opportunity for Guts to heal. At first Guts thinks that his behavior is unforgivable, but Casca actually hears him out and is understanding to him. Being able to finally share with someone what had happened to him and to be accepted by Casca allows Guts to heal in a big way. It brings a warmth and depth to the characters and their relationship that would have been missing if this part had been omitted. To me, the way this scene happened is genius.

Well, if Judeau had feelings for Casca it makes sense for him to be hurt when she and Guts smile to each other. He helped them get closer, this is what he wanted, but it does not make it easy to watch for him.
I completely agree. I think Judeau knew that Casca just didn't have any romantic feelings for him, but he still cares about her happiness. He wants her to find someone she can love and be loved by in return and he comes to think that this someone is Guts. Judeau seems to me to be a very observant and insightful character. In my opinion, Judeau is understanding enough to know that if the feelings just aren't there then there's no point in trying to force it, so he doesn't make a move on Casca because he believes she is simply not interested in him in that way. It seems to me that after Guts and Casca have their shared adventures before the battle for Doldrey, Judeau picks up on the shift in Casca's feelings for Guts, as I think it's after this point that he starts encouraging them to get together.

Going back to the look on Judeau's face when he sees that Guts and Casca are really together now, I think Judeau believed he was fine with it, but when he actually saw it happening it still hurt, just as Kraden said. Judeau may have thought he accepted it, but when he saw it in reality it was still painful to him, for that initial moment at least. His rational thinking and what he is feeling emotionally are at odds.  :judo:

As far as Griffith and Charlotte are concerned I get the feeling that at first Griffith was only interested in her for the possibility of advancement that being with her would give him. He saw her as just another stepping stone to his ambition. However, when Griffith sees Charlotte's strong devotion to him later in the story when they are escaping from the dungeon, I get the feeling that he is moved by it. I think it was meaningful to him, but I don't think it means he loves her.

I haven't read through all the volumes of the series yet (on volume 27) but Farnese's relationship with Guts is very interesting thus far. He has definitely brought out some strong feelings as well as a lot of soul searching in her.

Another relationship that I found intriguing was the one between Flora and Skullknight. Makes me want to know more about that one. Not sure if anything more of their history will be revealed, but it would be cool if it was.  :badbone:
« Last Edit: March 20, 2015, 07:44:55 PM by JMP »
A good sword, even if it rusts and dulls, has good steel that never rusts left over in the wick. That steel's the ultimate steel. Even if it cracks, if you return it to the fire, it's sure to be reborn. - Godot

Offline IronBerserk

Re: Love in Berserk (Guts and Casca and others)
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2015, 07:02:03 PM »
Ok ok, I hate to be the guy who spoils peoples fun, but the Guts+Casca relationship is most likely definitely NOT going to happen :rickert:. I know that people want love to triumph and that once she gets her memories back, somehow, things will find a way to get back to the way they were. But guess what, Miura already metaphorically in the story talked about the impossibility of things going back to the way they were. Volume 33 people, the beginning of volume 33 involves the cold hard and most likely truth that Guts realized himself. How Casca and him have changed and gone through so much that things simply just don't come back to the way they were. He uses the metaphor of his arm never coming back and the failure of him being unable to catch her when she fell off the boat. Sometimes you just can not mend and bring back the past. For good reason too because Guts is a much better person now than he was before. Before he was a broken and an unresolved mess. His life has become much more clearer since then.

Think of Guts and Casca as a previous love relationship that some of you might have had. You loved and adored the ex-girlfriend, probably still do. But you are unable to get back together because both of you changed so drastically between the years that you no longer feel compatible. You may want to get back together and you do love that person, but the bond is gone. That is the reason why most relationships with people who try to get back together ultimately fail, which exactly what is happening to Guts and Casca. I'm sorry guys, but Guts and Casca is not happening and I think Miura himself thinks that when he wrote that scene in volume 33.

Also, the other thing that confuses me is how some people believe Farnese's relationship with Guts is probably the same as with Casca's and Griffith's. Guts is NOT Griffith. Griffith ignored Casca's love because his goals and ambitions were bigger than any of them...something that Miura showed to be bad during the Eclipse. Griffith lacked the balance in his life to realize that goals are useless if you abandon your friends and family. Guts on the other hand already figured this stuff out. He loves his new family and would never intentionally cause harm to them (unless the berserker armor gets the better of him). The only reason Guts doesn't seem to pay enough attention to Farnese's feelings at the moment is because the nightmare that is the eclipse still haunts him. He is still stuck in the past with the eclipse and Casca. I do believe that once Casca gets her memory back, that will be the closure that Guts needs in order to move on in his life. That is when the Guts + Farnese possibility will become a reality.

As a fun little side note, here are the relationships that I hope happen:
- Guts + Farnese
- Schierke + Isidro (At least I hope so. Their constant bickering at each other clearly shows the tension :slan: )
- Rickert + Erica...eventually
- and.....Serpico + Casca (OHHHHHH YEAH, I said it! LMAO! I obviously have no proof or logical reasoning on this one but I definitely pondered the possibility. Once Casca gets her memory back, she will hopefully be among the gang. So why shouldn't Serpico gets some love!? LOL)

Another plot point I'd like to bring up on the possibility of the Guts + Farnese relationship is the idea that Farnese might eventually become the one that helps Guts control the berserker armor. Some of you had already mentioned the possibility that Farnese with her new ethereal body might become crucial in bringing back Guts from the darkness in later chapters. So just imagine how romantic and awesome it would be to have Farnese on Guts' back during a big battle, helping him. Two lovers fighting side by side in a crucial war. Now THAT'S bad-ass romance :slan: Casca would not be able to help Guts in pivotal dark moments like that and her fighting skills are not even close to that of Guts', so watching his back is technically impossible. Her fighting skills are more fit for someone like...Serpico! Fuck YEAH! Come on Miura, Serpico + Casca, make it happen! (fanboy in me is off the scales)

Offline Walter

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Re: Love in Berserk (Guts and Casca and others)
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2015, 12:11:47 AM »
Seriously, are you just trolling?
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Kindan

Re: Love in Berserk (Guts and Casca and others)
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2015, 01:17:20 PM »
Aw gees, that's some projection mate. :schierke:
"Justice is a delusion you will not find on this or any other sphere. And wisdom? Wisdom is no part of dreams, lithe walker, though dreams are a part of the sum of each life's experiences, which is the only wisdom that matters. But revelation? That is the province of dream."

Offline Salem

Re: Love in Berserk (Guts and Casca and others)
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2015, 01:20:59 PM »
With my best Keanu Reeves face...what if this guy is a member in disguise punking everyone?   :magni: (not me)

Offline IronBerserk

Re: Love in Berserk (Guts and Casca and others)
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2015, 04:52:18 AM »
Nope, not trolling at all. I brought the evidence forward. You just need to open your eyes and read. Guts and Casca will most likely not be together once or if she gets her memory back. I'm 90% sure of this. Obviously I can't be 100% certain since Miura might go the lame obvious route with having their love "triumph", but that's just bad story-telling and wishful thinking. I do not think Miura would not take back the things he wrote in volume 33. You guys really need to pay attention to the dialogue more. Be more open minded.

As for my rant about Serpico and Casca, that's just MY wishful thinking :P LOL! So yeah, take that part of my comment with a grain of salt.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Love in Berserk (Guts and Casca and others)
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2015, 10:05:02 AM »
Ok ok, I hate to be the guy who spoils peoples fun, but the Guts+Casca relationship is most likely definitely NOT going to happen.

Well I hate to be the guy spoiling your fun, but your entire post results from a poor comprehension of the story.

But guess what, Miura already metaphorically in the story talked about the impossibility of things going back to the way they were. Volume 33 people, the beginning of volume 33 involves the cold hard and most likely truth that Guts realized himself. How Casca and him have changed and gone through so much that things simply just don't come back to the way they were. He uses the metaphor of his arm never coming back and the failure of him being unable to catch her when she fell off the boat.

What a leap in logic. Guts saying he can't just forcibly replace what he's lost, like in the case of his arm, becomes "Guts realized he can never have a relationship with Casca again". Never mind that Guts' love for Casca is weaved throughout the story and is, among other things: the only reason he is going to Elfhelm, the only reason he made new friends along the way, the only reason he manages to regain himself when using the Berserk's armor. Never mind that in the very same episode you mention, Farnese panicked and returned to her corporeal body because she did not want to hear him say what Casca represents to him. Note that Schierke, who's also got a crush on Guts and who heard what he said, thought to herself in the next episode that she was alright with it, and took solace in the unique relationship she already shares with him.

Think of Guts and Casca as a previous love relationship that some of you might have had.

I don't think projecting your personal life experience onto the story helps you (or anyone else) understand it better.

But you are unable to get back together because both of you changed so drastically between the years that you no longer feel compatible. You may want to get back together and you do love that person, but the bond is gone. That is the reason why most relationships with people who try to get back together ultimately fail, which exactly what is happening to Guts and Casca.

I am astonished to have to remind you that Casca is currently mentally ill, and not in control of her faculties. That example of yours is completely irrelevant, and is definitely not comparable to the situation between Guts and Casca. That's not to say that Guts & Casca's relationship will resume as if nothing had happened when she regains herself, or that there won't be any tension or conflict between them. But you're talking about it as if it's already happened and failed, where in fact it hasn't even begun.

Also, the other thing that confuses me is how some people believe Farnese's relationship with Guts is probably the same as with Casca's and Griffith's.

Griffith changed Casca's life drastically and she idolized him for it. Guts changed Farnese's life drastically and she's idolizing him for it. In both cases, the object of their affection did/does not return it. The parallel is quite clear.

- and.....Serpico + Casca (OHHHHHH YEAH, I said it! LMAO! I obviously have no proof or logical reasoning on this one but I definitely pondered the possibility. Once Casca gets her memory back, she will hopefully be among the gang. So why shouldn't Serpico gets some love!? LOL)

Well, at least you're having fun. The likeliness of this occurring is essentially nonexistent. What about Roderick, by the way? Shouldn't he get some love as well?

Another plot point I'd like to bring up on the possibility of the Guts + Farnese relationship is the idea that Farnese might eventually become the one that helps Guts control the berserker armor. Some of you had already mentioned the possibility that Farnese with her new ethereal body might become crucial in bringing back Guts from the darkness in later episodes. So just imagine how romantic and awesome it would be to have Farnese on Guts' back during a big battle, helping him. Two lovers fighting side by side in a crucial war. Now THAT'S bad-ass romance :slan: Casca would not be able to help Guts in pivotal dark moments like that and her fighting skills are not even close to that of Guts', so watching his back is technically impossible.

Farnese is not a warrior. She's grown incredibly over the years, and I'm sure as I always was that she'll do important things in the future, but she will never be able to fight side by side with Guts like Casca once did. You say that Casca will not be able to help Guts in the future, but what is that based on? Who's to say how her fighting skill could evolve in Elfhelm? Maybe she'll acquire new equipment and new skills, like other characters have in the past?

Besides, for now Schierke is the only one qualified to help Guts with the armor, and it does not look like that's about to change. Farnese is still very much a novice when it comes to magic. Oh, and do I have to remind you once more that it's always the thought of Casca that prompts Guts to return to his senses? And that they have a son together who's playing an increasingly important role in the story?

Nope, not trolling at all. I brought the evidence forward. You just need to open your eyes and read. Guts and Casca will most likely not be together once or if she gets her memory back. I'm 90% sure of this. Obviously I can't be 100% certain since Miura might go the lame obvious route with having their love "triumph", but that's just bad story-telling and wishful thinking. I do not think Miura would not take back the things he wrote in volume 33. You guys really need to pay attention to the dialogue more. Be more open minded.

You brought nothing forward except your misconceptions. Now, please don't resort to insults against the author and/or story because they don't follow your ill-conceived notions. Lame, bad story-telling, wishful thinking? If anything, that applies to what you're proposing.

Offline IronBerserk

Re: Love in Berserk (Guts and Casca and others)
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2015, 05:40:58 AM »
Quote
What a leap in logic. Guts saying he can't just forcibly replace what he's lost, like in the case of his arm, becomes "Guts realized he can never have a relationship with Casca again". Never mind that Guts' love for Casca is weaved throughout the story and is, among other things: the only reason he is going to Elfhelm, the only reason he made new friends along the way, the only reason he manages to regain himself when using the Berserk's armor. Never mind that in the very same episode you mention, Farnese panicked and returned to her corporeal body because she did not want to hear him say what Casca represents to him. Note that Schierke, who's also got a crush on Guts and who heard what he said, thought to herself in the next episode that she was alright with it, and took solace in the unique relationship she already shares with him.

LOL, how exactly is it a leap in logic? It's the ONLY logic to get from that scene :P You said it yourself that only moments before the scene where Casca falls, Farnese goes back to her body because she doesn't want to hear the answer to the question Roderick asked saying, "Is she your woman." Might I add that we NEVER HEARD HIS ANSWER. Also, it was right after the falling scene that Guts contemplates the arm metaphor, saying that things WON'T be back to normal between him and Casca. Remember, this is all part of the theme of Guts' relationship with Casca. Is she his woman, we never get an answer. Seconds later he says things won't be the same anymore. Thus most likely implying they MIGHT (and I emphasize might, because there is no certainty) NOT get back together.

"Never mind that Guts' love for Casca is weaved throughout the story and is, among other things: the only reason he is going to Elfhelm, the only reason he made new friends along the way, the only reason he manages to regain himself when using the Berserk's armor." First of all, Schierke :schierke: would like a word with you because Casca has little (almost nothing) to do with Guts snapping out of the Berserker armor. He thinks about her, and him almost killing her in the armor AFTER he regains his sanity, but he does not regain sanity due to her. Schierke and the moonchild are responsible for that. The moonchild shows images of Casca to remind him what he fights for, then he shows himself in a bright flash of light, prompting him to wake. He does not think of Casca all by himself and snaps out of berserker mode thanks to the power of love. Also, Guts made new friends not because of Casca, but because of the lesson he learned from Godo back at the end of volume 17. The cave scene where in which he realizes that abandoning friends and loved ones is not the way to go. This realization opened him up to him being more accepting of getting new friends. It's not a coincidence that Isidro, his first new friend and companion, shows up right after that cave scene. Once again, it's Miura showing us his great story-telling skills. Putting and resolving a theme, and then utilizing it. Exactly how I think (once again, it's a might, not a certainty) he will use the volume 33 scene.

Quote
I am astonished to have to remind you that Casca is currently mentally ill, and not in control of her faculties. That example of yours is completely irrelevant, and is definitely not comparable to the situation between Guts and Casca. That's not to say that Guts & Casca's relationship will resume as if nothing had happened when she regains herself, or that there won't be any tension or conflict between them. But you're talking about it as if it's already happened and failed, where in fact it hasn't even begun.

You also got to remember Guts tried to rape her during her mentally ill phase (assuming she gets another phase after this one). More tension. Can things get back to a relationship after that? I guess we will have to wait and see.

Quote
Farnese is not a warrior. She's grown incredibly over the years, and I'm sure as I always was that she'll do important things in the future, but she will never be able to fight side by side with Guts like Casca once did. You say that Casca will not be able to help Guts in the future, but what is that based on? Who's to say how her fighting skill could evolve in Elfhelm? Maybe she'll acquire new equipment and new skills, like other characters have in the past?

Besides, for now Schierke is the only one qualified to help Guts with the armor, and it does not look like that's about to change. Farnese is still very much a novice when it comes to magic. Oh, and do I have to remind you once more that it's always the thought of Casca that prompts Guts to return to his senses? And that they have a son together who's playing an increasingly important role in the story?

Now it's my turn to remind you that Farnese is very much capable, showing us that she is already knew how to create a shield around the ship to protect it. She may be a novice, but she learns quick. Might I remind you also that Schierke fused with Guts' armor by accident. Who's to say Farnese wouldn't be able to do it as well? And who cares if she's not a warrior. She's more than proved her worth protecting Casca in moments of incredible danger. Casca on the other hand has warrior skills matching that of probably Serpico's, and even Serpico has no choice a lot of times to just stand on the side lines and just watch Guts wreck shit up. Face it, Casca would not be able to help Guts in berserker mode. However, Schierke and Farnese (eventually) can and would be able to!


The point that needs to be said here is that Guts and Casca's love is real, yet there relationship is not set in stone. I am showing the other side of the argument about how I believe they won't end up together. It is not a misconception, it is a probability that Miura himself has put into the story. All I ask is that you keep an open mind.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Love in Berserk (Guts and Casca and others)
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2015, 07:34:03 PM »
LOL, how exactly is it a leap in logic? It's the ONLY logic to get from that scene :P

I suggest you refrain from this kind of absolute claim... If only to lessen the embarrassment you might feel in the future. I explained why it's a leap: because reflecting on the loss of his arm is definitely not equal to the certitude of having already lost Casca without any chance of getting her back. You should probably re-read various parts of the story if this isn't immediately clear to you.

You said it yourself that only moments before the scene where Casca falls, Farnese goes back to her body because she doesn't want to hear the answer to the question Roderick asked saying, "Is she your woman." Might I add that we NEVER HEARD HIS ANSWER.

But it seems that Schierke did hear it, as I pointed out in my previous post. And Farnese didn't need to hear it to know what it would be, that's the whole point. She knows in her heart that Guts isn't for her, she just hasn't accepted it yet. Otherwise, why not stay? Why not have the confirmation she would so desperately hope for?

Also, it was right after the falling scene that Guts contemplates the arm metaphor, saying that things WON'T be back to normal between him and Casca.

That's not what the scene means. It's a reflexion on what Guts has lost over the years in general, with a focus on the physical side. It starts in the episode by his vision becoming blurry, a side-effect of using the Berserk's armor. Then we have this incredible scene of him trying to grab Casca and failing to, then sinking because of his arm. Does the scene's significance extend beyond the loss of his forearm to encompass the relationship that was lost because of her mental state? Sure. Does that mean that they can never have a new relationship even if she's cured? Nope, definitely not.

"Never mind that Guts' love for Casca is weaved throughout the story and is, among other things: the only reason he is going to Elfhelm, the only reason he made new friends along the way, the only reason he manages to regain himself when using the Berserk's armor." First of all, Schierke :schierke: would like a word with you because Casca has little (almost nothing) to do with Guts snapping out of the Berserker armor. He thinks about her, and him almost killing her in the armor AFTER he regains his sanity, but he does not regain sanity due to her. Schierke and the moonchild are responsible for that. The moonchild shows images of Casca to remind him what he fights for, then he shows himself in a bright flash of light, prompting him to wake. He does not think of Casca all by himself and snaps out of berserker mode thanks to the power of love.

Actually, I'm sorry to tell you so, but on the contrary, Guts snaps back to his senses essentially because of the power of love. Better believe it, because that's clearly, absolutely and undeniably what happens each and every time. That Schierke or the boy have to tell Guts about her is irrelevant here (i.e. no need for you to state the obvious), what matters is that it's because of her that he comes out of it. His love for her is the drive for it, just like his love for her is what has made him turn his back on his revenge.

Also, Guts made new friends not because of Casca, but because of the lesson he learned from Godo back at the end of volume 17. The cave scene where in which he realizes that abandoning friends and loved ones is not the way to go. This realization opened him up to him being more accepting of getting new friends.

Dude, the cave scene in volume 17 is Guts saying he'll never leave Casca ever again. You're arguing against your own point. Furthermore, Guts explicitly states in volume 23 that he's letting Isidro, Farnese and Serpico join him because he can't handle things by himself now that he has to protect Casca. That he would have refused were he alone. You should probably check out these volumes again.

Now it's my turn to remind you that Farnese is very much capable, showing us that she is already knew how to create a shield around the ship to protect it. She may be a novice, but she learns quick. Might I remind you also that Schierke fused with Guts' armor by accident. Who's to say Farnese wouldn't be able to do it as well?

I always find it immensely cute when people try to "remind" me things about Berserk. How adorably presumptuous, really. Anyhow, Farnese has certainly come a long way. Is she ready to help Guts in the way Schierke does? No. Will she ever be able to do it? Maybe, someday. But not anytime soon.

And who cares if she's not a warrior.

Guts does.

She's more than proved her worth protecting Casca in moments of incredible danger. Casca on the other hand has warrior skills matching that of probably Serpico's, and even Serpico has no choice a lot of times to just stand on the side lines and just watch Guts wreck shit up. Face it, Casca would not be able to help Guts in berserker mode. However, Schierke and Farnese (eventually) can and would be able to!

Look at how biased you are. It wasn't so long ago that Farnese was cowering in fear at the first sign of trouble, getting lost in the woods when Casca in her current state could go back to the camp. Again, Farnese has come a long way, but you're doing yourself a disservice by comparing her feats of bravery with those of pretty much anyone else in Guts' group. As for how useful Casca would be to Guts in battle, that remains to be seen. It seems awfully lacking in foresight to me to assume her fighting prowess will never evolve beyond what it was in volume 8.

The point that needs to be said here is that Guts and Casca's love is real, yet there relationship is not set in stone. I am showing the other side of the argument about how I believe they won't end up together. It is not a misconception, it is a probability that Miura himself has put into the story. All I ask is that you keep an open mind.

Nothing is set in stone, that goes without saying. But Miura has set things up in a way that makes it incredibly hard to believe Guts and Casca's relationship will just fall apart when she regains herself, with Guts promptly moving on to Farnese while Casca falls into Serpico's arms. In many ways, Guts' love for Casca is the only reason he's still alive right now. And it's what has driven the story since volume 22, when he decided to journey to Elfhelm so that she could be safe. It would be immensely unsatisfying if things proceeded like you wish them to.

You don't have to tell people to keep an open mind, either. I think we all do in general, and when it comes to Berserk I doubt many folks have considered more possible scenarios than I have. Finally, you're free to believe whatever you want of course, but many of the things you've brought forward to support what you've said have in fact been misconceptions.

Offline The Ruffled Swordsman

Re: Love in Berserk (Guts and Casca and others)
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2015, 07:19:02 PM »
I think Judeau knew that Casca just didn't have any romantic feelings for him, but he still cares about her happiness. He wants her to find someone she can love and be loved by in return and he comes to think that this someone is Guts. Judeau seems to me to be a very observant and insightful character. In my opinion, Judeau is understanding enough to know that if the feelings just aren't there then there's no point in trying to force it, so he doesn't make a move on Casca because he believes she is simply not interested in him in that way. It seems to me that after Guts and Casca have their shared adventures before the battle for Doldrey, Judeau picks up on the shift in Casca's feelings for Guts, as I think it's after this point that he starts encouraging them to get together.

Going back to the look on Judeau's face when he sees that Guts and Casca are really together now, I think Judeau believed he was fine with it, but when he actually saw it happening it still hurt, just as Kraden said. Judeau may have thought he accepted it, but when he saw it in reality it was still painful to him, for that initial moment at least. His rational thinking and what he is feeling emotionally are at odds.  :judo:

One thing i thought was key about Judeau is he had unrequited love for Casca, in the same way Casca had unrequited love for Griffith. I thought Judeau it goes without saying is a noble character, and I've often seen him recognized as such. While Casca was still in her mind's eye set on Griffith, Judeau was actually rooting for Guts, because of that perceptive quality you spoke of he saw something between them. Judeau being a traveling artist in the past, made it seem like he had an entertainer's persona.  He was kept happy by the happiness of others, but he had a sadness to him, that he didn't reveal once to our eyes until right before his death.

I kind of imagine that Judeau wanted Casca to be free to find her own happiness, and he wanted the same for Guts.  We saw in his last moments that Judeau was living a very self sacrificing life, which is why that one fan fic picture years ago that i saw on this forum. With judeau being pulled from this lazarus pit like pool of fire being reborn at elfhelm, was an awesome fitting picture.

Offline TripleJMaster3

Re: Love in Berserk (Guts and Casca and others)
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2015, 10:27:31 PM »

Offline JMP

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Re: Love in Berserk (Guts and Casca and others)
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2015, 07:52:32 PM »
One thing i thought was key about Judeau is he had unrequited love for Casca, in the same way Casca had unrequited love for Griffith. I thought Judeau it goes without saying is a noble character, and I've often seen him recognized as such. While Casca was still in her mind's eye set on Griffith, Judeau was actually rooting for Guts, because of that perceptive quality you spoke of he saw something between them. Judeau being a traveling artist in the past, made it seem like he had an entertainer's persona.  He was kept happy by the happiness of others, but he had a sadness to him, that he didn't reveal once to our eyes until right before his death.

I kind of imagine that Judeau wanted Casca to be free to find her own happiness, and he wanted the same for Guts.  We saw in his last moments that Judeau was living a very self sacrificing life, which is why that one fan fic picture years ago that i saw on this forum. With judeau being pulled from this lazarus pit like pool of fire being reborn at elfhelm, was an awesome fitting picture.

Good points! I don't think Judeau was really being honest with himself in thinking that Guts and Casca getting together was "all good" with him. When they actually get together, as we were talking about before, he doesn't look too happy. He has been trying to engineer their union while stuffing down his own feelings for Casca all the while. Not sure that's healthy! If he hadn't been killed first he might have ended up going postal at some point.  :puck: I'm totally joking, by the way. Hmm, honestly if he hadn't been killed I think Judeau really just wanted Guts to take Casca away. He does demand that Guts take Casca with him when they're talking after Griffith's rescue. This as well, appears to have been motivated by a desire for Casca's good. I think Judeau knows that if Casca stayed behind and Guts left then she would be sacrificing her own life and happiness to care for the invalid Griffith and I don't think Judeau wants to see that happen to her. There he goes being self sacrificing again! Judeau was willing to be the one to bear the responsibility of caring for Griffith in the future. Beyond all that, though, Judeau might also want Casca to leave because he's sick of living in a situation where the woman he loves is so near to him, but is unattainable as far as the romantic relationship he desires. It's all interesting to ponder anyway. I love how Miura makes his characters so human and complex! Just awesome!  :guts:
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 08:05:25 PM by JMP »
A good sword, even if it rusts and dulls, has good steel that never rusts left over in the wick. That steel's the ultimate steel. Even if it cracks, if you return it to the fire, it's sure to be reborn. - Godot

Offline Vixen Comics

Re: Love in Berserk (Guts and Casca and others)
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2015, 04:05:57 PM »
Ok ok, I hate to be the guy who spoils peoples fun, but the Guts+Casca relationship is most likely definitely NOT going to happen :rickert:. I know that people want love to triumph and that once she gets her memories back, somehow, things will find a way to get back to the way they were. But guess what, Miura already metaphorically in the story talked about the impossibility of things going back to the way they were. Volume 33 people, the beginning of volume 33 involves the cold hard and most likely truth that Guts realized himself. How Casca and him have changed and gone through so much that things simply just don't come back to the way they were. He uses the metaphor of his arm never coming back and the failure of him being unable to catch her when she fell off the boat.

Where did you get this impression? Are you reading the official translations by Dark Horse or the scanlations online for this scene? Because I did not get this impression at all when I read this in the manga that Guts was losing hope in getting Casca back. he is very sad and weary, but he was not outright saying that Casca will never come back. Though to follow this line of thinking, I think Guts has considered that Casca may come back but will not be exactly the same as before because of what has transpired.


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Sometimes you just can not mend and bring back the past. For good reason too because Guts is a much better person now than he was before. Before he was a broken and an unresolved mess. His life has become much more clearer since then.

A much better now than...when exactly? Before the eclipse I would say he was immensely better than right now when he had finally hooked up with Casca, realized what he was searching for, was right in front of him in hawks (his little moment of revelation that he would stay with the hawks, unbeknownst to Casca, instead of gallivanting in the woods some where), and have place were he belongs and a woman who he loved and loved him back. After the eclipse he is a wreck, and yes he finds some stability and comfort in his new family he has acquired, but that is just Guts acquiring something he already figured out he needed when he realized what he wanted was right in front of him (the hawks family). He still wants Casca by his side, healthy and whole, that is what will truly make him "better off" in the long run....


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Think of Guts and Casca as a previous love relationship that some of you might have had. You loved and adored the ex-girlfriend, probably still do. But you are unable to get back together because both of you changed so drastically between the years that you no longer feel compatible. You may want to get back together and you do love that person, but the bond is gone. That is the reason why most relationships with people who try to get back together ultimately fail, which exactly what is happening to Guts and Casca. I'm sorry guys, but Guts and Casca is not happening and I think Miura himself thinks that when he wrote that scene in volume 33.

Maybe it will. Casca is literally frozen in time and I have wondered how well she and Guts will connect after she is restored, Guts has changed immensely while Casca has not. Guts is very different person currently than he was when she had her last conversation with him before the eclipse got started, he's more stoic and calmer than he was when she last had interaction with him, he does not even look the same, he's more scarred, he has lost and eye and a arm and his hair is turning white among other things, it's something that has plagued me for a while now...but I don't know I would personally feel like Miura would be flipping me off and saying "screw you" to me if he is just building up to Casca and Guts never resolving their issue and nothing but alienation and bitterness dictate their relationship after she is restored. This is something that has concerned me and I really hope you are wrong, but I don't think (and really hope) that Miura does not pull this kind of stunt on us. That would be poor story telling, not what you described, and Miura is not a poor story teller.

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He loves his new family and would never intentionally cause harm to them (unless the berserker armor gets the better of him). The only reason Guts doesn't seem to pay enough attention to Farnese's feelings at the moment is because the nightmare that is the eclipse still haunts him. He is still stuck in the past with the eclipse and Casca. I do believe that once Casca gets her memory back, that will be the closure that Guts needs in order to move on in his life. That is when the Guts + Farnese possibility will become a reality.

So here what is the motivation of everything you have just posted above, you want things to go south for Guts and Casca so that Farnese and Guts might have a shot? You are not the only one, poking around other berserk fan communities I have seen some fans that have gotten sick of Casca as a character and just want Guts to drop her entirely because she is not worth it, or what ever, and have him turn his attention toward Farnese? Guts does not open up easily and he has opened up a lot to Casca while in the Hawks, he is encouraging of Farnese and cares about her, he would not have made a fuss over her being left behind if he didn't, but I don't think that means he loves her. I am not saying that if things are completely severed from Casca he would never consider Farnese, there was definitely tension between them when he was first captured (mostly one sided, but I think he acknowledged that she was attractive) but I do not see him entertaining the thought while Casca is still around. Maybe if things do go south for Casca and him, and Farnese starts showing some incrediable leadership qualities...who knows maybe. It was partially admiration for Casca's prowess as a fighter and leader that ensnared Guts.


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Another plot point I'd like to bring up on the possibility of the Guts + Farnese relationship is the idea that Farnese might eventually become the one that helps Guts control the berserker armor. Some of you had already mentioned the possibility that Farnese with her new ethereal body might become crucial in bringing back Guts from the darkness in later chapters. So just imagine how romantic and awesome it would be to have Farnese on Guts' back during a big battle, helping him. Two lovers fighting side by side in a crucial war. Now THAT'S bad-ass romance :slan: Casca would not be able to help Guts in pivotal dark moments like that and her fighting skills are not even close to that of Guts', so watching his back is technically impossible. Her fighting skills are more fit for someone like...Serpico! Fuck YEAH! Come on Miura, Serpico + Casca, make it happen! (fanboy in me is off the scales)

I really, really hope Miura integrates Casca into the plot more by having her learn more skills and fighting techniques I would be bothered if all Casca does is sit on the sidelines watching everyone else do things.

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Casca is a complex character with some fragility and all that, but at her core she was a warrior and a leader, and this is key to Guts' attraction to her

Here is a question, what if Casca feels she can't be these things any more? Would that affect Guts attraction to her? Casca placed a lot of credit for her pride and success as a warrior at Griffith's feet, that she was able to do these things because of Griffith. I notice that Casca gives Griffith total credit for who she was able to become. I wonder how this will affect her confidence of picking up her ways of a warrior and leader after being restored if she put that much credit with Griffith on being able to do those things. I do not think Casca gives her self enough credit for the things she has accomplished due to her own merit and I wonder how that will play out.  I know this seems a bit off topic but since these qualities she used to have was essential to Guts's attraction to her, and his admiration for her strength, would happen if she feels without Griffith she can't be these things. And how would Guts react to that?
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Good points! I don't think Judeau was really being honest with himself in thinking that Guts and Casca getting together was "all good" with him. When they actually get together, as we were talking about before, he doesn't look too happy. He has been trying to engineer their union while stuffing down his own feelings for Casca all the while. Not sure that's healthy! If he hadn't been killed first he might have ended up going postal at some point.  :puck: I'm totally joking, by the way. Hmm, honestly if he hadn't been killed I think Judeau really just wanted Guts to take Casca away. He does demand that Guts take Casca with him when they're talking after Griffith's rescue. This as well, appears to have been motivated by a desire for Casca's good. I think Judeau knows that if Casca stayed behind and Guts left then she would be sacrificing her own life and happiness to care for the invalid Griffith and I don't think Judeau wants to see that happen to her. There he goes being self sacrificing again! Judeau was willing to be the one to bear the responsibility of caring for Griffith in the future. Beyond all that, though, Judeau might also want Casca to leave because he's sick of living in a situation where the woman he loves is so near to him, but is unattainable as far as the romantic relationship he desires. It's all interesting to ponder anyway. I love how Miura makes his characters so human and complex! Just awesome!  :guts:

I had forgotten that. I never considered that Judo might have also wanted Casca and Guts out of his sight because he did not want to continue seeing them being lovey dovey with each other. Right before this scene Judo witnesses Casca hug Guts gratefully when she found out he was not hurt, and then Casca cuss Guts out in the wagon on his behavior while sewing up his wounds.
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Offline TripleJMaster3

Re: Love in Berserk (Guts and Casca and others)
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2015, 11:20:01 PM »
Guts is very different person currently than he was when she had her last conversation with him before the eclipse got started, he's more stoic and calmer than he was when she last had interaction with him, he does not even look the same, he's more scarred, he has lost and eye and a arm and his hair is turning white among other things, it's something that has plagued me for a while now...but I don't know I would personally feel like Miura would be flipping me off and saying "screw you" to me if he is just building up to Casca and Guts never resolving their issue and nothing but alienation and bitterness dictate their relationship after she is restored.

Yes, Guts certainly has developed quite a bit since the eclipse both physically and mentally. While I don't see Guts physical changes causing an issue between he and Casca I do wonder what effects the mental changes might have on their relationship.
As you said Guts has became much calmer and really he has matured a lot, lets not forget Guts was and really still is a young man. One of the benefits of Guts development is that he's found the value of peace. He is desperately seeking a safe place to live with his friends and Casca which now has them heading towards the elf island with the added benefit of possibly restoring cascas mind. However, if Cascas mind and memories are restored perhaps she will not want peace and seek vengenance for herself and the original band of the hawk.
Another scenario that has crossed my mind is whether Cascas memories will all be restored or if her mind will revert to where it was right before the eclipse. This seems unlikely but imagine how horrifying this could be for her. Awakening to realize all of her comrades have been slaughtered, her lover has lost his arm/eye, several years have passed aging herself/guts, and to top it all off Griffith was the one who betrayed them. I wonder if her mind would be able to accept such a thing.
Either way it pans out Guts and Casca's relationship will be very hard to maintain but if it does it well open up several other possibilities for the next volumes of this story. Now if we could only get another release.

Offline slothqueen

Re: Love in Berserk (Guts and Casca and others)
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2015, 08:59:47 AM »
I, on the other hand, think that cured Casca will not seek revenge. She didn't find out during the Eclipse, that it was Griffith who sentenced her and all of her friends to die (note that even Guts had to spent some time stabbing fist altar to realize this. And God Hand told him about that straightly while Casca was busy fighting with apostles). She could have suspicions about it, it could be haunting her and she'll surely try to ask Guts about it.

But I don't see Guts telling her about it. Why? Because:

1. He knows how much Griffith meant to her before. He's really Casca's paternal figure. Guts could fear that revealing to Casca what he had done will throw her into breakdown.
2. He knows how hatred to Griffith ruined his own life and sanity. I'm sure he'd do a lot to get rid of  :beast: and obsession of killing Griffith in general.
3. He knows that "he always realizes that [he had something precious], when he already loses it". Guts would not want to take Casca with him to kill Griffith. Even if she'll be more than happy with that idea, even if she'll skill up to be better swordsman than Roderic and Serpico altogether - Guts would rather keep her safe in Elfhelm than allow her to follow him to his doom. It's because he loves her.

Offline Walter

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Re: Love in Berserk (Guts and Casca and others)
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2015, 10:16:34 AM »
I, on the other hand, think that cured Casca will not seek revenge. She didn't find out during the Eclipse, that it was Griffith who sentenced her and all of her friends to die (note that even Guts had to spent some time stabbing fist altar to realize this. And God Hand told him about that straightly while Casca was busy fighting with apostles).

Actually, the Falcons were aware of the proceedings. The God Hand's voices were amplified as they explained Griffith would sacrifice them. Guts is just stubborn.

Furthermore, there's a panel as Judo and Casca are riding off on the horse with Casca looking up at the hand, wondering to herself: "is this nightmare what you wished for?"
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Love in Berserk (Guts and Casca and others)
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2015, 05:38:54 PM »
Here is a question, what if Casca feels she can't be these things any more? Would that affect Guts attraction to her?

I think it would, yes. Even recently, Guts has remembered her fondly as that warrior and leader. That's who she was and that's who he wants back.

Casca placed a lot of credit for her pride and success as a warrior at Griffith's feet, that she was able to do these things because of Griffith. I notice that Casca gives Griffith total credit for who she was able to become. I wonder how this will affect her confidence of picking up her ways of a warrior and leader after being restored if she put that much credit with Griffith on being able to do those things. I do not think Casca gives her self enough credit for the things she has accomplished due to her own merit and I wonder how that will play out.

I think she'll struggle with quite a few things but will overcome them, like she has so many other obstacles in her life. But the biggest hurdle, the enormity of Griffith's treason (especially in her case), has been so hard to bear that it has put her in her current state. So managing to come out of that state should already be a huge step in the right direction, depending on how it's achieved. And for her mental state in general, it's a given that there will be change. It's only natural. But I'm convinced that her inherent qualities will shine through.

He knows how much Griffith meant to her before. He's really Casca's paternal figure. Guts could fear that revealing to Casca what he had done will throw her into breakdown.

She's already been in breakdown precisely because of this. Coming out of it should involve overcoming the damage, not shying away from it. Otherwise she might as well stay in her current state.

Guts would rather keep her safe in Elfhelm than allow her to follow him to his doom. It's because he loves her.

Leave her behind? Never. That choice was made a long time ago.


Offline Vixen Comics

Re: Love in Berserk (Guts and Casca and others)
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2015, 10:16:53 PM »
I think it would, yes. Even recently, Guts has remembered her fondly as that warrior and leader. That's who she was and that's who he wants back.

hm, I am surprised to hear you say that it would affect his attraction to her if she feels she cannot be what she was before. I sure hope that Miura allows Casca go back to the kick ass amazon woman she used to be. Not just Guts, but as a fan that is what I am hoping we will get back. But this makes me question something. It is completely obvious that Guts deeply loves Casca, but do you think that Guts has a slightly idealized impression of Casca? Like maybe in his admiration for her warrior skills he is overlooking some other aspects to Casca that he has not noticed. Guts hold Casca's leadership skills and warrior prowess up high but if given the chance Casca would be just as happy as a normal woman. And it is the fact that Casca during the Band of the Hawk days is not like any other woman that draws Guts to her. Casca picked up the way of a warrior to be useful to Griffith not because she herself desired to be warrior. She worked hard on being a warrior to be useful to Griffith and she took on Leadership roles in order to both further Griffith's dream and then later to keep what he has worked for intact (the Hawks) when he was captured by the king of midland. None of this seemed like she was doing for herself but only for Griffith, and when she got involved with Guts it seemed like she would continue to be warrior and fight along side him more because that is the path Guts chose for himself. I never got the impression that Casca was a warrior or a leader because she particularly wanted to be. And I wonder if Guts is aware of that? I just wonder if Guts is somewhat blinded by the glamor of her former self is holding her up on a unrealistic pedestal, especially when Casca feels that the person she was in the band of the Hawk days was made possible by Griffith.   
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Love in Berserk (Guts and Casca and others)
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2015, 08:00:07 AM »
hm, I am surprised to hear you say that it would affect his attraction to her if she feels she cannot be what she was before.

Indeed. Just like, hypothetically, Casca's attraction to Guts would be affected were he to become a different man. But really, that's all very hypothetical, because:

I sure hope that Miura allows Casca go back to the kick ass amazon woman she used to be.

I am quite convinced that Casca's nature will not have changed. I have no doubt she will rise to be the badass she used to be, even though there will likely be a period of adaptation.

Not just Guts, but as a fan that is what I am hoping we will get back.

Of course. Anything else would be a disappointment.

But this makes me question something. It is completely obvious that Guts deeply loves Casca, but do you think that Guts has a slightly idealized impression of Casca? Like maybe in his admiration for her warrior skills he is overlooking some other aspects to Casca that he has not noticed. Guts hold Casca's leadership skills and warrior prowess up high but if given the chance Casca would be just as happy as a normal woman. And it is the fact that Casca during the Band of the Hawk days is not like any other woman that draws Guts to her. Casca picked up the way of a warrior to be useful to Griffith not because she herself desired to be warrior. [...] I never got the impression that Casca was a warrior or a leader because she particularly wanted to be.

I don't know about that. Sounds to me like you don't give her enough credit. When Casca first joined the Band of the Falcon, it was for herself. She had no life to go back to. Sure, she idolized Griffith and wanted to become essential to his success, but in doing so she also realized her own worth. So I don't think it's either fair or accurate to say she became who she was only to please him and not because of her own desire. What you're saying is that if given the choice she'd prefer to be a housewife, and I just don't think that's true.