Author Topic: Better Call Saul  (Read 16770 times)

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Offline Skeleton

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #75 on: March 31, 2015, 02:06:35 AM »
Wow Chuck's a huge prick.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 04:51:30 AM by Griffith »

Offline Griffith

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #76 on: March 31, 2015, 04:58:56 AM »
Wow Chuck's a huge prick.

Wow indeed, this show just came into its own; like the writing, acting, and characters all came together at once and everything clicked into place (to the point that Mike felt like the out of place element, though I still enjoyed his side of things =). Can't wait for next week:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ7H-w6AG2Q

We'll see about that...

Offline XionHorsey

Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #77 on: March 31, 2015, 07:59:41 AM »
I was a bit distracted when I first saw it, so I found it difficult to believe and wondered what on earth was going on. Now I know. :/ The more I think about it, the more I find that it was "all there", so to speak. Like, there were signs.  :judo:

Offline Skeleton

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #78 on: April 01, 2015, 03:13:52 AM »
Wow indeed, this show just came into its own; like the writing, acting, and characters all came together at once and everything clicked into place (to the point that Mike felt like the out of place element, though I still enjoyed his side of things =). Can't wait for next week:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ7H-w6AG2Q

We'll see about that...

I agree completely. 

To be honest, I went into this last episode solely to see what happens with Mike's story line.  By the end of the episode I had forgotten all about Mike.  :ganishka:

Offline Joe Chip

Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #79 on: April 01, 2015, 06:29:39 AM »
Alright, i didn't watch the last 3 episodes. I was waiting for the season to be finished so i could watch it all together, but seeing all the comments here i decided to just watch it right now.
Man, i loved how this series has turned out. I agree that it stands on it's own and by the end Mike's storyline felt out of place. It was still fun seeing him, but all in all i felt that it made the show more exciting. From the one side you get anxious to see what happens with Saul and Chuck and from the other side it's fun to see Mike ... beeing Mike  :ubik:.
I agree that Chuck was being a dick, but i understand his point of view. He worked his ass off to get to where he was, so he felt that Saul was just trying to get some of his glory.
One thing i was wondering the whole time is this. Why was HHJ the only option for Jimmy, i can understand that he had connections there because of his brother, but with this case other big companies would beg him to get the Case. I don't get why the only options were :
1) Give the case to HHJ
2)Try to do it on your own and fail miserably

Do you guys think that Jimmy/Saul will cut all ties with his Brother (as he told him), or do you think that he will end up helping him again down the road? I personally think that Saul will end up with his brother again just because he is a good guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ7H-w6AG2Q

We'll see about that...
Argh, not available in my country. I'll try to search for the video, hopefully i'll find it.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #80 on: April 01, 2015, 10:00:51 PM »
To be honest, I went into this last episode solely to see what happens with Mike's story line.  By the end of the episode I had forgotten all about Mike.  :ganishka:

At first I just took it as a nice little Walter White parable, but the moral certainly applies to the rest of the episode as well. Chuck is certainly being a bad pious brother.

Alright, i didn't watch the last 3 episodes. I was waiting for the season to be finished so i could watch it all together, but seeing all the comments here i decided to just watch it right now.
Man, i loved how this series has turned out. I agree that it stands on it's own and by the end Mike's storyline felt out of place. It was still fun seeing him, but all in all i felt that it made the show more exciting. From the one side you get anxious to see what happens with Saul and Chuck and from the other side it's fun to see Mike ... beeing Mike  :ubik:.
I agree that Chuck was being a dick, but i understand his point of view. He worked his ass off to get to where he was, so he felt that Saul was just trying to get some of his glory.

Oh, he has a point! At the same time, in addition to being vain and sanctimonious, he's clearly also jealous and resentful of Jimmy's own gifts and personality going back to their early years, and certainly doesn't want to see, or think of, Jimmy as being an accomplished lawyer like him. Also, they're more alike than Chuck thinks, because he's been conning Jimmy the whole time! His mental affliction also seems at least somewhat tied to Jimmy's success, rather than his screw ups like Jimmy thought (started after Jimmy got his law degree, conveniently held Jimmy back since, and Chuck only got well enough now to ultimately screw him over).

One thing i was wondering the whole time is this. Why was HHJ the only option for Jimmy, i can understand that he had connections there because of his brother, but with this case other big companies would beg him to get the Case. I don't get why the only options were :
1) Give the case to HHJ
2)Try to do it on your own and fail miserably

Do you guys think that Jimmy/Saul will cut all ties with his Brother (as he told him), or do you think that he will end up helping him again down the road? I personally think that Saul will end up with his brother again just because he is a good guy.

Hamlin Hamlin & Jimmy? =) Maybe that's what Chuck's worried about. I don't think that's his only option, and this all just went down so we'll see what he does. I do see potential complications though considering the help and resources Chuck and Hamlin have already provided. I mean, he could take the deal and the money, change his name to Goodman and move on, try to make amends and maybe this is jump a bump in the road foreshadowing a greater rift down the line... or he could have Chuck committed, destroy the firm, and collect all the money! I guess it depends on if he wants to be a good loser, or a bad winner, to borrow from Mike's point. =)

Offline Walter

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #81 on: April 02, 2015, 02:56:45 AM »
So, Chuck's a real piece of shit, huh?

I didn't think Mike's story was out of place. I actually liked how thematically he tied it back to Saul's predicament (and Walt's, really). That these challenges are all a morality contest for Saul.
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Offline ryOtoha

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #82 on: April 02, 2015, 11:50:25 AM »
So we reach a certain pivotal point; In a way, the choice of Jimmy taking the deal or not, giving away all his efforts to HHM remind me of Grey Matters and Walt's regrets completely defining and legitimize who/what he became. :beast:

Offline Walter

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #83 on: April 02, 2015, 01:31:39 PM »
...Walt's regrets completely defining and legitimize rationalize who/what he became. :beast:

Fixed.
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Offline ryOtoha

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #84 on: April 02, 2015, 01:44:33 PM »
Fixed.

That's sums up what i was thinking in french and trying to convey in english. Thanks :serpico:

Offline Griffith

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #85 on: April 02, 2015, 10:29:47 PM »
I didn't think Mike's story was out of place. I actually liked how thematically he tied it back to Saul's predicament (and Walt's, really). That these challenges are all a morality contest for Saul.

Oh, I agree, to clarify my comments to that effect I meant that I was finally as invested in the other supporting characters and how they fit into the greater plot as I was in Mike, to the point my attention wasn't mainly focused on him this week. That's a turnaround from a few weeks ago when I just wanted him and Saul to be the whole show already. =)

Offline Walter

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #86 on: April 04, 2015, 02:06:09 AM »
I actually really like Hamlin  :farnese:
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #87 on: April 04, 2015, 07:04:52 AM »
I actually really like Hamlin  :farnese:

Yeah... I think Jimmy and everyone watching owes him an apology at this point. BTW, good use of archetype for that twist. Other than what Jimmy said about/to Hamlin and his being a dick to Kim, for the big villain he didn't do much worse than come off like a phony jerk, which seemed trite and underwhelming, but it turns he might have been pretty loyal and genuine the whole time! Let's see where he ends up in the last episode.


Speaking of, so what do we all think? Is the story going to sort of stay true to its more down to earth, actual interpersonal lawyer stuff, nature? Or is it time for Jimmy to break badô again and Saul-t the earth? And one way or the other, will Jimmy become Saul, nominally or in practice, by the end of the finale? I yes to the latter in both cases.

Offline Joe Chip

Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #88 on: April 04, 2015, 06:21:32 PM »
Oh, he has a point! At the same time, in addition to being vain and sanctimonious, he's clearly also jealous and resentful of Jimmy's own gifts and personality going back to their early years, and certainly doesn't want to see, or think of, Jimmy as being an accomplished lawyer like him. Also, they're more alike than Chuck thinks, because he's been conning Jimmy the whole time! His mental affliction also seems at least somewhat tied to Jimmy's success, rather than his screw ups like Jimmy thought (started after Jimmy got his law degree, conveniently held Jimmy back since, and Chuck only got well enough now to ultimately screw him over).
I would have to disagree, i don't personally think that he is jealous. He is highly skilled and highly accomplished in his field. I think that in his eyes his brother is  failure, a small time crook that resorts to tricks in order to get his way. I personally think that he sees his brother being a lawyer as a flaw in his personal goals and career. So of course he will do everything not to be associated with him.
Hamlin Hamlin & Jimmy? =)
:ganishka:
Speaking of, so what do we all think? Is the story going to sort of stay true to its more down to earth, actual interpersonal lawyer stuff, nature? Or is it time for Jimmy to break badô again and Saul-t the earth? And one way or the other, will Jimmy become Saul, nominally or in practice, by the end of the finale? I yes to the latter in both cases.
I personally think that he is not going to become Saul yet. There is a second season already planned so i think they re going to milk the story for a bit before he makes the transition to Saul.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #89 on: April 04, 2015, 09:46:23 PM »
I would have to disagree, i don't personally think that he is jealous. He is highly skilled and highly accomplished in his field. I think that in his eyes his brother is  failure, a small time crook that resorts to tricks in order to get his way. I personally think that he sees his brother being a lawyer as a flaw in his personal goals and career. So of course he will do everything not to be associated with him.

I don't disagree with any of that, but it's not mutually exclusive, and his bringing up Saul's personality and likability definitely pointed to some personal jealousy and resentment. I don't think Chuck likes the idea of Jimmy no longer being his loser brother not only because he's seen him at his worst and can't get past that image, but also because where does that leave him, especially in his current condition, when his role has always been the respectable one? I'd especially like to know how their dynamic worked when Jimmy was presumably a fun, smooth talking guy and Chuck was a nerd "working his ass off" studying the law.

I personally think that he is not going to become Saul yet. There is a second season already planned so i think they re going to milk the story for a bit before he makes the transition to Saul.

Well, I hope they don't take too long or their won't be a third season to get us there. This season could have used a little more focus, drive, and danger as it is.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 07:12:57 AM by Griffith »

Offline Joe Chip

Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #90 on: April 05, 2015, 08:57:57 AM »
Well, I hope they don't take too long or their won't be a third season to get us there. This season could have used a little more focus, drive, and danger as it is.
I totally agree, it would be a good idea to introduce some new clients of Jimmy/Saul and have them commit mischief. I enjoed the first episodes with the skaters and Jimmy trying to bail them out

Do you guys think that Mike was carrying a gun ? I don't think he was, but a buddy of mine thinks that he was actually, but said that he didn't in order to ditch the other bodyguards. I also didn't like how the second bodyguard simply run away, i'm sure the writers could think of something better than that.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #91 on: April 06, 2015, 02:57:07 PM »
Do you guys think that Mike was carrying a gun ? I don't think he was, but a buddy of mine thinks that he was actually, but said that he didn't in order to ditch the other bodyguards. I also didn't like how the second bodyguard simply run away, i'm sure the writers could think of something better than that.

I actually mind the gun thing more than the guy running away (which was funny if a bit predictable given his intimidating size, and they already indulged in Mike's awesomeness with the other guy). I remember reading from the producers that he didn't have a gun because he was so confident from his research and because he's trying to play it as safe as possible... so why assault armed goons in a parking structure? Plus, I get leaving your gun at home to stay out of trouble, but not in Mike's line of work! So yeah, he should have had a gun, but from an artistic standpoint I appreciate the message that Mike is just that badass.

It further raises the question how a crazy asshole like Walt ever gets the best of this guy, though. And we have a long way to go before Jimmy becomes party to the poisoning and murder of children. =)

Offline Walter

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #92 on: April 06, 2015, 02:59:01 PM »
Yeah... I think Jimmy and everyone watching owes him an apology at this point. BTW, good use of archetype for that twist. Other than what Jimmy said about/to Hamlin and his being a dick to Kim, for the big villain he didn't do much worse than come off like a phony jerk, which seemed trite and underwhelming, but it turns he might have been pretty loyal and genuine the whole time! Let's see where he ends up in the last episode.

Despite everything, it's possible that Hamlin could be an affable guy, with Chuck's orders being the root of his negative encounters with Saul. And Hamlin was a dick to Kim because he was trying to cover for Chuck. I don't necessarily know where that storyline is headed, but I thought it was a nice reversal of expectations for an otherwise one-dimensional character. It puts all of his scenes (even as minor as they are) in a new light, to me.

I would have to disagree, i don't personally think that he is jealous. He is highly skilled and highly accomplished in his field. I think that in his eyes his brother is  failure, a small time crook that resorts to tricks in order to get his way. I personally think that he sees his brother being a lawyer as a flaw in his personal goals and career. So of course he will do everything not to be associated with him.

Hmm, I don't agree. I think you're giving the mildly insane man who's been out of work for a year or so a little too much credit. When pushed by Saul to give reasons for his betrayal, you could see he was a little flustered, and the reasons he gave seemed pretty personal, to me. He was masking his obvious personal problems with Saul trying on the clothes of a lawyer by this being a professional dilemma. Plus like Griff pointed out, Chuck's disorder seems to be linked to Saul's success. I don't think there's any way his decision to block his brother from success can be rationalized.

The whole exchange reminded me of when Walt was furious at Jesse for making (successfully!) his own product. And all Walt could do was call it inferior.




... so why assault armed goons in a parking structure? Plus, I get leaving your gun at home to stay out of trouble, but not in Mike's line of work! So yeah, he should have had a gun, but from an artistic standpoint I appreciate the message that Mike is just that badass.


I think a lot of that was done to put on a show, so he'd be the last man standing for the client.
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #93 on: April 06, 2015, 03:22:25 PM »
I think a lot of that was done to put on a show, so he'd be the last man standing for the client.

I get that, and it works fine within the show, I just have trouble reconciling it with the idea that Mike was trying to play it safe (by not being armed, no less). Like I said, chalk the whole thing up to artistic license; it was also a nice juxtaposition between that guy's false confidence and need to compensate and Mike's very real competence being all he needs (it's like he's slumming with this job). Plus, whatever Mike's intentions were going in that soldier of fortune asshole pissed him off. =)

Offline Walter

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #94 on: April 06, 2015, 03:35:25 PM »
I get that, and it works fine within the show, I just have trouble reconciling it with the idea that Mike was trying to play it safe (by not being armed, no less). Like I said, chalk the whole thing up to artistic license; it was also a nice juxtaposition between that guy's false confidence and need to compensate and Mike's very real competence being all he needs (it's like he's slumming with this job). Plus, whatever Mike's intentions were going in that soldier of fortune asshole pissed him off. =)
Agreed. The whole scene pretty much exists for the audience to cheer for Badass Mike on the job. And it got the desired effect for me  :guts:

Speaking of that scene, the huge guy who runs off with the goatee, didn't we see his mugshot in the opening scene of the previous episode? (and again when Jimmy calls from the bathroom of the diner).
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #95 on: April 06, 2015, 03:45:18 PM »
Speaking of that scene, the huge guy who runs off with the goatee, didn't we see his mugshot in the opening scene of the previous episode? (and again when Jimmy calls from the bathroom of the diner).

I didn't notice but I think they've been doing clever little shit like that all season. For example, we see Jimmy representing the guy that later helps him pull off the crane con during a courtroom montage, and the actor also appeared on Breaking Bad as a hired gun and could theoretically be the same character.



Post-Finale Update: Well, it was definitely not what I expected, even considering it could be something more low key in line with most of the series (except episode 2 really, which became an outlier rather than setting the tone), but I get it, and I liked it. I'll write more on that and what I thought overall later. For now, good, albeit strange, show. In the end I respect it most for how much it decidedly, consciously even, wasn't like Breaking Bad, even though it also wasn't wholly satisfying given that expectation. No violent mad cap caper with tragic consequences in the end, no fireworks or fatal attractions (save one), just one highly entertaining con man montage and a guy figuring out who he really is.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 01:38:08 PM by Griffith »

Offline Walter

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #96 on: April 07, 2015, 04:15:09 PM »
**SEASON FINALE TALK**

Well ... I wasn't disappointed as much as I was surprised that they really didn't go out with a bang of any proportion (except for banging the waitresses).

I was content with the pacing of the episode with the knowledge that this was THE SEASON FINALE, and there would be some teeth to dig into the next season. But what we got was an about-face in the final moments where Saul seems to be implying "fuck it with being legit." And for that direction, I say well done. But I wish they would have underscored that with, I dunno... any kind of actual action on that front. If he's going to try on the clothes of a criminal for a bit, it would have been nice to see him plant his feet in that role as the episode ends.

The hanging thread revealed by Mike that Tuco's gang is headed for tumultuous times is clearly setting up action for season 2, and I can see Saul leaving the courthouse and headed straight for Nacho. "I'm your man!"

So what was learned from this season? That the Saul we get to know eventually is a hybrid of his Chicago scamster days and his days trying to make it as a legitimate lawyer at a legitimate firm doing legitimate casework. What else did we learn? Well... Not a helluva whole lot.


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Offline Dar Klink

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #97 on: April 07, 2015, 09:50:03 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TVlvI8kDW1U#t=64

Heh, completely forgot about this and saw it while watching some BrBa Saul clips. Nice callback.


I actually didn't know that last night's episode was the finale until the end so I wasn't going through it thinking of it on those terms. I felt a bit disappointed at the lack of action as well, but overall it was a pretty good episode and finale. I'm excited for more Saul and sad that I have to wait now.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #98 on: April 07, 2015, 10:20:38 PM »
I hope you guys like black bars. :griffnotevil:

Well ... I wasn't disappointed as much as I was surprised that they really didn't go out with a bang of any proportion (except for banging the waitresses).

I think it was the other way around for me. =)

If he's going to try on the clothes of a criminal for a bit, it would have been nice to see him plant his feet in that role as the episode ends.

Yeah, we get to see him be a criminal, and a lawyer, but... he's no more a "criminal lawyer" than he was at the start, and actually, besides his final declaration, much less than he was since episode 4 (when he was taking bribes and pulling macro level media cons). I'd have liked for him to at least have bought the salmon colored shirt for the closure and promise we're not just going to do the same thing again next season or in perpetuity. I like Jimmy and his world and feel it all payed off in its own right, but that's not the name of the show, and that should at least somewhat drive it. For all that happened and how good or interesting it was, it largely feels like a lateral move. Now, I don't mind this if it's gearing up for even bigger and better things to come, but if the show ends up being 2 seasons and out, that time might have been time better spent actually doing "The Saul Show." They're definitely approaching this with care and a long haul mentality, I just hope it pays off, in every sense of the phrase. Speaking of which...

The hanging thread revealed by Mike that Tuco's gang is headed for tumultuous times is clearly setting up action for season 2, and I can see Saul leaving the courthouse and headed straight for Nacho. "I'm your man!"

I'd be careful about reading too much into anything or forming such expectations given the less is more approach we've seen thus far. I think that was actually the plan this season, like he was literally supposed to get involved with Nacho in episode 3 and his descent would escalate from there, but they got so enthralled with Jimmy they never called Saul!

So what was learned from this season? That the Saul we get to know eventually is a hybrid of his Chicago scamster days and his days trying to make it as a legitimate lawyer at a legitimate firm doing legitimate casework. What else did we learn? Well... Not a helluva whole lot.

One could argue it either way, like maybe we learned too much about Saul's life before he became Saul (next season should be a prequel to the prequel about his life as Slippin' Jimmy, then his college days, then him as a 60 year old adolescent =). It was well done (S'all good, man), but like I said it feels like a lateral move in the overall scheme of the mission statement. I don't know if they have too much to say about Saul, or not enough; thus, why this arc was stretched to an entire 10 episode season. :???:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TVlvI8kDW1U#t=64

Heh, completely forgot about this and saw it while watching some BrBa Saul clips. Nice callback.

Holy shit! This only adds to my sense that they're kind of wasting their talent and way overqualified for this, "Let's just do a nice show for a change, and not fall back on our Bad old ways." Is this whole season about Jimmy's life a metaphor for Saul's life before being Saul, as well as for the show itself? "I know why we did this, but we're never letting it stop us again!" I hope.

I actually didn't know that last night's episode was the finale until the end so I wasn't going through it thinking of it on those terms. I felt a bit disappointed at the lack of action as well, but overall it was a pretty good episode and finale. I'm excited for more Saul and sad that I have to wait now.

Me too, maybe they should have called the show, "Waiting For Goodman." I'm ultimately a bit frustrated, like they did either way too much Jimmy or too little Saul, and even though the payoff with Chuck was fantastic, like the slow build was seriously needed for that and way more emotionally weighty than it had any business being in the ninth episode of the first season of a series, they still could have launched the show into the stratosphere last night, ala Breaking Bad's spectacular finales which sometimes followed similarly slow-building seasons (admit it, nothing much happens in the episodes prior to the last two in seasons 3 and 4 of Breaking Bad), but punted the ball to next season here. It was especially strange after the tone set by the, admittedly schizophrenic, early episodes. This season was like if in season 1 of Bad Walt really did quit cooking after the first three episodes and took up the offer to work at Gray Matter instead, and that not working out and why being the lion's share of the season, concluding with him saying, "Maybe I'll try that drug stuff again after all." See ya next year, folks! :ganishka: Speaking of which, is it weird that we now have far more nuanced background on Saul Goodman than we ever did Walter White? If the above video is any indication, that's going to make future viewings of Breaking Bad kind of different (and he better join a dojo next season =).

Final thought: this show's greatest strength is also its weakness in that they've managed to take Breaking Bad's arguably most outlandish character and create a show around him that's somehow more humane, low key, realistic (though arguably mundane), and intimate than its prestigious forebear.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2015, 12:01:37 AM by Griffith »

Offline NightCrawler

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #99 on: April 09, 2015, 12:43:24 AM »
I think it was easily the worst episode of the season, aggravated by the fact that it was the finale.
The job offer sounded bogus. Either it was supposed to sound that way or not, it's just lousy writing. I found unbelievable and unrealistic how he completely blew it off too.
Also, Peter Gould is convinced we find his montages as entertaining as he does.
Berserk isn't really "dark fantasy" either. It's plain fantasy
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