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Online Walter

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #100 on: April 09, 2015, 01:41:23 AM »
Regarding above spoilers, it was indeed weak writing. A false conflict just so he could make his "choice" at the end of the episode. Oh well. A low key, but nevertheless enjoyable season overall.
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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #101 on: April 09, 2015, 02:47:04 AM »
I think it was easily the worst episode of the season, aggravated by the fact that it was the finale.
The job offer sounded bogus. Either it was supposed to sound that way or not, it's just lousy writing. I found unbelievable and unrealistic how he completely blew it off too.
Also, Peter Gould is convinced we find his montages as entertaining as he does.

Seconded.  I felt let down by this episode.  I think the fact it was the season finale and that it followed last week's episode hurt it.
Quote from: Episode 341
Daiba: I'm a great magician.

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"He has been breeding us for a long time, Duncan, strengthening many things in us. He has bred us for speed, for intelligence, for self-restraint, for sensitivity. You're... you're just an older model."

Offline Griffith

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #102 on: April 09, 2015, 06:32:32 AM »
I think it was easily the worst episode of the season, aggravated by the fact that it was the finale.

I don't think it was the worst (that was probably one of the random lawyering ones in the middle), I was engaged throughout and it was a fun little self-contained story; it just didn't do anything to advance or resolve everything that came before it! It was a 180 before another 180, which kind of sums up the direction(s) of the show pretty well. The only time the series really focused and gathered momentum was episodes 7-9, which, not surprisingly, resulted in the show's best build up and payoff. The rest was interesting and added depth, but was all over the map.

The job offer sounded bogus. Either it was supposed to sound that way or not, it's just lousy writing. I found unbelievable and unrealistic how he completely blew it off too.
Regarding above spoilers, it was indeed weak writing. A false conflict just so he could make his "choice" at the end of the episode.

I didn't mind it since I don't really care if every turn is exemplery, but it's hard to argue otherwise (especially him not even sniffing it). It's another case of them eschewing the obvious drama they had already set up to go do something else, then trying to come back and hastily recreate the situation when it was all right there for them before. Instead, after 9 episodes of the Jimmy & Chuck show, the crux of the whole thing, rather than Chuck dying or something, is the death of some rando from an ep 4 intro flashback they filmed because the episode ran short; I guess that answers my question of whether they had too much or too little to say about Saul. I'd have preferred that HH&(particularly)M reconsidered their position out of remorse but that it was too little, too late. Same result, but better. I guess this was less... operatic?


So, what I said about wanting a commitment for next season's direction:
 
http://m.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/better-call-saul-co-creator-we-like-saul-goodman-but-we-love-jimmy-mcgill

Nope! Which is a bit scary since they had finally seemed to settle on something at least (and like Jimmy, show's eventually have to know what they are to work). Anyway, there's some good stuff in there too, but you know what they say about love being blind? Not at all surprised they weren't in love with Walt. As a matter of fact, before I read the article I smugly thought, "I bet they didn't love Walt!" =)
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 07:07:43 AM by Griffith »

Online Walter

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #103 on: February 02, 2016, 03:12:39 PM »
Who needs cable? Second season premieres Feb. 15 and a day after on Netflix.

Quote from: http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/02/netflix-better-call-saul-streaming-next-day
Netflix—the service that has been credited with generating thousands of Breaking Bad addicts—will be streaming new episodes of the spin-off Better Call Saul the day after they air internationally.

:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline XionHorsey

Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #104 on: February 16, 2016, 03:16:14 AM »
Jeez...a yellow hummer and loud as sneakers. That IT guy was a good example of smart person, foolish choices. There is a reason why Mike said "do your homework." That guy is so screwed.

Overall, a great start.

And there were a lot of Easter eggs that I didn't realize until reddit pointed it out.

« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 03:50:45 AM by XionHorsey »

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #105 on: March 10, 2016, 04:43:12 AM »
I thought this week's episode was pretty decent.  Some thoughts and observations:

- I like that the show is finally moving in a direction.  For the entire first season and the first couple of episodes of this season it felt like the show was spinning its wheels or taking one step forward and two steps back.  But no more.  No more waffling between being Slippin' Jimmy and trying to be respectable.

- It was great seeing Tuco again.  He's one of my favorite characters from Breaking Bad.

- I loved his necklace, a pair of silver boxing gloves.  A subtle hint that Tuco was a boxer in his past?  I'd believe it.  Just an Easter egg showing how much he loves beating the shit out of people?  I'd believe it.  Whatever the case may be, I want that necklace.

- It was also interesting seeing more pre-drug fiend Tuco and comparing it to post-drug fiend Tuco.  For example, while it's true Tuco is an inherently violent person, Mike had to work a bit to get Tuco to beat him up.  Compare that to Breaking Bad's drug fiend Tuco who beat his underling to death for a small off-handed comment he didn't like.

- It was nice seeing Crazy 8 again.

- We got some more backstory for Mike, which was great.  So he was a sniper(?) who fought in 'Nam.  I guess that means Philly doesn't just have one badass weapons training program for its police force.

- I can already tell that Kim is going to be the new Skyler, the female character that every meat head bitterly hates because she stands in the way of the main character having "fun."
Quote from: Episode 341
Daiba: I'm a great magician.

Quote from: Moneo Atreides
"He has been breeding us for a long time, Duncan, strengthening many things in us. He has bred us for speed, for intelligence, for self-restraint, for sensitivity. You're... you're just an older model."

Offline Griffith

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #106 on: March 10, 2016, 06:58:17 AM »
This show is like when a band has a landmark album and instead of even attempting to follow it they use that cachet to do something totally uncommercial.

It's well written, but unfocused and meandering. There could be plenty more emphasis on his transformation rather than the back and forth malaise he's been engaged in since the beginning (he seemed closer to being Saul in the first episodes than he does now). It's such a slow burn, they could really decide to make this show more about "Saul" at any time and nobody could accuse them of rushing into it. Same with Mike, just have him meet Gus or something and stop teasing.

Or this is the show they really want to make and him becoming Saul is a corner they're backing into as slowly as possible. In a weird way this is the most serious and down to earth television drama I've ever sat through; at its core it's just a middle aged guy stuggling with his career, identity and relationships with not much else at stake a lot of the time (with a spinoff within the spinoff about Mike). It's like they really decided to forgo a lot of the larger than life elements they had on BB to really focus on Jimmy like a real person. It's compelling and even brave in its own right; like they're trying to do something genuinely more humane. Though, it's also uneven and underwhelming, and they can't escape the character's destiny, which also undermines everyone who we know doesn't come along for the ride.

I wish Chuck's reveal as a heel, my favorite scene for the show and Odenkirk, had had more impact and driven Jimmy to something more dramatic and Goodmanesque. I like the show, but structurally it just hasn't been a very eventful, and even when eventful things happen it's not building momentum or seemingly going anywhere. I mean, the big takeaway from all of season 1, which was already underwhelming, basically got reset in the first episode of season 2 and it's like here we go again. We get it, before becoming this larger than life caricature Saul was once something like a real person with real problems. It's really going in circles now though, better call Saul already.

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #107 on: March 11, 2016, 01:32:44 AM »
You said it better than I ever could, my friend.  I would add to what you said, but you hit the nail squarely on the head.  I like the show.  The quality is definitely there.  But I wish the story would just get going already.
Quote from: Episode 341
Daiba: I'm a great magician.

Quote from: Moneo Atreides
"He has been breeding us for a long time, Duncan, strengthening many things in us. He has bred us for speed, for intelligence, for self-restraint, for sensitivity. You're... you're just an older model."

Offline Griffith

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #108 on: March 11, 2016, 04:46:52 AM »
You said it more concisely; quality without quantity. I see the craftsmanship, but to no end.

Are they afraid to make the Saul show, or are they just way too in love with Jimmy? Is Saul actually going to appear in "the Saul show?" At this rate I'm afraid we won't get another season to find out.

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #109 on: March 12, 2016, 05:46:48 AM »
Are they afraid to make the Saul show, or are they just way too in love with Jimmy? Is Saul actually going to appear in "the Saul show?"

I remember they were asked about the people who want to see Saul in that episode of Talking Saul after the first episode of the second season premiered, but I can't find the show online without jumping through the official website's hoops.  But in my search, I found some interesting articles I thought might be interesting.

The executive producers and showrunners of “Better Call Saul,” Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould, said the timeline for when Jimmy would become Saul has been in constant flux.

“In the early going, we thought he would become Saul Goodman by the end of the season, or maybe by the middle of Season 1,” Gilligan said. “We came to realize that Jimmy McGill is a guy we like better than Saul Goodman. He’s a guy we’d like to have a beer with, and we came to the realization that when he becomes Saul Goodman, it’s going to be a bit of a tragedy.”

Does it feel to you like the show is shifting in season two from being not just Jimmy's doomed transition into Saul, but also more of a doomed love story with Jimmy and Kim?

Absolutely. When we started season two, I think a lot of the audience, and even the writers included, when we ended season one we thought, "OK, here comes Saul Goodman," but the more we talked about it, we realized that Jimmy McGill has people that he cares about, one being his brother, even though his brother betrayed him and that was part of the reason he wasn't going full Slippin' Jimmy in the prior season. But as he moves forward, he cares a lot about Kim. There's a love story happening here. He's wearing Marco's ring and he wants to go off and be that guy, but he realizes that if he wants this person he cares about in his life, he can't really do that right now. So he has to keep being Jimmy McGill, the lawyer, for her.



Has there been surprise in the writers room about that? You guys are building to a character who you all love and who fans love, but has there been a shock at how much sympathy you feel for Jimmy and how much you want to stay with Jimmy?


Yeah. When we started Better Call Saul, I never in a million years ... it's really thanks to Bob Odenkirk. It's what he brings. We write the show, but what he does shapes what we do, so it's a give-and-take. Vince has talked about it in other places, what Chuck [Jimmy's older brother] became at the end of season one, the betrayer? We never thought of that when we started out, but Michael McKean brought this certain element to the role that helped shape our storytelling. I think Bob is absolutely doing the same thing with Jimmy McGill. You see him on screen and you root for him and he has this likability to Jimmy McGill that was not really there with Saul Goodman. So when we started out, no, I never would have thought we would feel for him so much or he'd be the character that he is, but it's the combination of what we do in the writers room and what Bob brings to the character that shapes all of it.

Has that had a demonstrable effect in terms of slowing down the storytelling and keeping us in Jimmy-ville for longer?

I think so, yeah. I think us caring for Jimmy is probably one of the factors in why he's not full-blown Saul Goodman. It's hard to let go of Jimmy right now, as much as a lot of the audience and myself included want to see Saul, I don't want to leave Jimmy behind, so it gets to be a slower transition. Saul definitely pokes out many, many times this season, that personality, but I think it also makes it more believable, too, that we don't end season one and ... he's that guy. It's more real transition. Sometimes there's a catastrophic event that'll change a person, but in reality it's a slow transition. It's just more real this way.

It sounds like you nailed it.  They love Jimmy and want to keep him around for as long as possible.

At this rate I'm afraid we won't get another season to find out.

I like to think Vince Gilligan gets a lifetime supply of the benefit of the doubt after Breaking Bad, but in the interest of full disclosure I was actually a bit afraid the show wouldn't live to see a season 2 (and was subsequently very relieved when it was picked up for a second season).  I can't tell if this fear of cancellation is legitimate or a paranoia born out of the fact that, compared to how everyone and their mom was watching and talking about Breaking Bad by its last season, there seems to be a dead silence surrounding this show.

Now that I think about it though, Breaking Bad had 1.5 million viewers watching the first season's finale and 10.28 million(!) people watched the series finale.  If I were one of the people who watched the show from the very beginning, would I have been worried it'd be cancelled too?

I guess what I'm trying to say is I hope we get more seasons of Better Call Saul.  :ganishka:
Quote from: Episode 341
Daiba: I'm a great magician.

Quote from: Moneo Atreides
"He has been breeding us for a long time, Duncan, strengthening many things in us. He has bred us for speed, for intelligence, for self-restraint, for sensitivity. You're... you're just an older model."

Offline m

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #110 on: March 13, 2016, 06:42:00 PM »
You said it better than I ever could, my friend.  I would add to what you said, but you hit the nail squarely on the head.  I like the show.  The quality is definitely there.  But I wish the story would just get going already.

You said it more concisely; quality without quantity. I see the craftsmanship, but to no end.

Are they afraid to make the Saul show, or are they just way too in love with Jimmy? Is Saul actually going to appear in "the Saul show?" At this rate I'm afraid we won't get another season to find out.

I hear what you guys are saying but I quite like the show as it is. At the end of the first season things seemed to be going in a certain direction and at the beginning of the second season things haven't quite gone that way yet, in fact, they seemed to have taken a u-turn almost immediately. My take on things is that Jimmy is trying to hold on to being a "reputable" lawyer, partly for himself and perhaps also for Kim, and that the events of the first season were not enough for him to become Saul, which means that we'll get to see all he has to endure before he gets to that point, and I appreciate that they're taking their time showing us these events. I'm also enjoying Mike's adventures. Even if they don't seem to be leading anywhere at the moment, just having Mike being Mike is appealing to me. Finally, I find Nacho more interesting than Tuco. I guess we kind of know where things are going for him but this is another journey I'd like to see unfold.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #111 on: April 11, 2016, 02:12:47 PM »
This is a weird show; I like it (more than anyone I know) but feel like it's going absolutely nowhere except off the airwaves without ever depicting Saul! I'm happy Jimmy is finally going to war with HHM and playing truly dirty, but he should have done that in the finale last season. I'm fine with them taking their time to slow roll this thing in a vacuum, Jimmy is indeed more interesting than a purely goofball Saul, but with that accomplished I can't help but worry they're going to get the plug pulled on them before they can go anywhere... or worse, that they don't actually know where they're going. As I've said before, for all it's minute by minute quality the show truly seems rudderless and meandering, with little connection between it's disparate parts (I think Mike and Saul have talked, like, twice this season?). It's like they managed to solve the problem of prequel expectations by completely ignoring where they're supposed to be going, which is admirable, but only to a point.

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #112 on: April 11, 2016, 07:05:26 PM »

Griffith, after reading your post a couple of questions came to mind, so I'd like to ask them if I may. These are all honest questions so please bear with me.

This is a weird show; I like it (more than anyone I know) but feel like it's going absolutely nowhere except off the airwaves without ever depicting Saul!

I probably like this show more than anyone I know too.  :serpico:

If the show was allowed to run its course, what do you think the ending would be? The reason I ask is because I think that one possibility is that the show will end once Jimmy does becomes Saul. I'm not saying that I think this is the most likely scenario, but I think I'd be fine with it (typing this paragraph I'm thinking that perhaps the natural ending would be Saul meeting Walter). I personally don't feel like a full-fledged Saul is a must for the show. In my opinion just having the show being about Jimmy's transformation would be fine.

One thing I do wonder is what the show would be about if they do go with a full-fledged Saul. We've already seen Saul in Breaking Bad, so I wonder what this show would add to what we've already seen.

... I can't help but worry they're going to get the plug pulled on them before they can go anywhere...

I don't know how these things work, and over here the show is marketed as a Netflix original show, so I wonder if the show getting the plug pulled is really a big concern? I guess what I'm trying to say - and again, I most likely don't know what I'm talking about, which is why I ask - is, if the show loses viewers, would Netflix pull the plug in the same way a regular or a cable network would? Do they even have that many viewers to being with?

or worse, that they don't actually know where they're going.

Is this a big concern for you at the moment? I don't think it is for me. Not only do I like the show as it is, the runners have a lot of credit with me for what they did in Breaking Bad. At the moment I'm more than happy to trust them and to see how it all plays out.

As I've said before, for all it's minute by minute quality the show truly seems rudderless and meandering, with little connection between it's disparate parts (I think Mike and Saul have talked, like, twice this season?). It's like they managed to solve the problem of prequel expectations by completely ignoring where they're supposed to be going, which is admirable, but only to a point.

I don't think they're ignoring where they're going, but rather that they're taking their time getting there (I could go the other way and say that the problem is that Mike's and Jimmy's paths crossed too often in the beginning  :troll:)

Offline Griffith

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #113 on: April 11, 2016, 09:53:57 PM »
If the show was allowed to run its course, what do you think the ending would be? The reason I ask is because I think that one possibility is that the show will end once Jimmy does becomes Saul. I'm not saying that I think this is the most likely scenario, but I think I'd be fine with it (typing this paragraph I'm thinking that perhaps the natural ending would be Saul meeting Walter). I personally don't feel like a full-fledged Saul is a must for the show. In my opinion just having the show being about Jimmy's transformation would be fine.

I'd like to see them actually do something with Saul, which is explicitly what they set out to do; the idea of it being a half hour comedy was even toyed with. While I'm glad they chose something more serious and to their strengths, making what's an entirely different show about essentially a different character on the name of Saul is kind of a cheat. I mean, he's going to be Saul on Breaking Bad, and so far there's been little to rectify how Jimmy becomes the man we see there, who is either a very complete or otherwise broken man compared to this one. The more nuance and depth they give Jimmy, the more it actually poses the problem of how the hell he becomes a clown like Saul.

One thing I do wonder is what the show would be about if they do go with a full-fledged Saul. We've already seen Saul in Breaking Bad, so I wonder what this show would add to what we've already seen.

Again, that was the plan, not saying they need to do that but it's almost like they never really figured it out beforehand and still haven't. A big concern going in was if they could figure out how to make a Saul work, and one could argue they haven't.

I don't know how these things work, and over here the show is marketed as a Netflix original show, so I wonder if the show getting the plug pulled is really a big concern? I guess what I'm trying to say - and again, I most likely don't know what I'm talking about, which is why I ask - is, if the show loses viewers, would Netflix pull the plug in the same way a regular or a cable network would? Do they even have that many viewers to being with?
Is this a big concern for you at the moment? I don't think it is for me. Not only do I like the show as it is, the runners have a lot of credit with me for what they did in Breaking Bad. At the moment I'm more than happy to trust them and to see how it all plays out.

Well, I guess I need not for now:

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/03/15/better-call-saul-renewed-season-3

It's also on AMC but it does seem like they're truly cross-platforming it, so maybe it will have a home somewhere no matter what. Still, there's business realities that not even Breaking Bad was above. Someone has to pay for these episodes to be produced, and who and how much matters, and it's not like the producers aren't aware of this. Saul is shot digitally as opposed to film, as Breaking Bad was, because it saves them like $100,000 an episode. Anyway, maybe I'm just being cynical and in time I'll be lauding the brave integrity of it all, but with that out of the way, what I'm really getting at is that despite it's quality I still don't think the show is reaching it's full potential. It may still one day, but right now it's merely lurking.

I don't think they're ignoring where they're going, but rather that they're taking their time getting there (I could go the other way and say that the problem is that Mike's and Jimmy's paths crossed too often in the beginning  :troll:)

Yeah, but they're very much not getting there, and unless something shocking happens (not impossible with this crew's history) I'm not seeing something bigger overall take shape, quite the contrary, they're going even further afield (maybe that's how we'll arrive at something fantastically unique, but with the steps forward and back the show's already taken, I'll believe it when I see it). Even if/when they do, was this the best use of 20 hours, a lot of it retreading the same or every similar ground (it's a fair question since I'm investing the time =)? And again, I don't see or believe in a master plan yet; from what they've said and I've seen and the nature of the beast they're just making it up as they go along (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, this was true of Breaking Bad, and most television, as well). It feels like it's almost indecision at this point though, or Jimmy's predicament is the producers: do they want to play it straight, be a comedy, be a Breaking Bad fan service show (they keep using elements, but the big fish are still out there =), and they're kind of trying to do a little of it all without fully committing to anything (even the show's original material; Nacho and, until recently, Chuck are almost non-factors). They're choosing half measures, when they should go all the way. :carcus:

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #114 on: April 12, 2016, 07:04:52 PM »
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/03/15/better-call-saul-renewed-season-3

This is great news! :ubik:

It's also on AMC but it does seem like they're truly cross-platforming it, so maybe it will have a home somewhere no matter what.

I hope so. I'd like for the show to go as far as it wants to go, preferably in its own terms.

Still, there's business realities that not even Breaking Bad was above. Someone has to pay for these episodes to be produced, and who and how much matters, and it's not like the producers aren't aware of this. Saul is shot digitally as opposed to film, as Breaking Bad was, because it saves them like $100,000 an episode.

Certainly. I just got the impression that having Netflix involved somehow gave them more wiggle room than shows exclusively on AMC have, or even shows on other networks (an example that comes to mind is Hannibal; an acclaimed show that I liked a lot, but that didn't meet NBC's expectations in terms of ratings).

I'd like to see them actually do something with Saul, which is explicitly what they set out to do; the idea of it being a half hour comedy was even toyed with. While I'm glad they chose something more serious and to their strengths, making what's an entirely different show about essentially a different character on the name of Saul is kind of a cheat. I mean, he's going to be Saul on Breaking Bad, and so far there's been little to rectify how Jimmy becomes the man we see there, who is either a very complete or otherwise broken man compared to this one. The more nuance and depth they give Jimmy, the more it actually poses the problem of how the hell he becomes a clown like Saul.

Again, that was the plan, not saying they need to do that but it's almost like they never really figured it out beforehand and still haven't. A big concern going in was if they could figure out how to make a Saul work, and one could argue they haven't.

Yeah, but they're very much not getting there, and unless something shocking happens (not impossible with this crew's history) I'm not seeing something bigger overall take shape, quite the contrary, they're going even further afield (maybe that's how we'll arrive at something fantastically unique, but with the steps forward and back the show's already taken, I'll believe it when I see it).

It could definitely be that they haven't figured out how to make Saul work but, in my opinion, the Jimmy of the show is slowly but surely becoming the Saul of Breaking Bad, and I think we've already seen glimpses in Jimmy of what was par for the course for Saul (like when he defended the guy that sold stuff to Nacho, or when he's filmed his commercials, or to some extent even when he's helped Mike), and I think all that is happening is contributing to lead him there. I'd say something similar about Mike as well (who is going deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole).

Even if/when they do, was this the best use of 20 hours, a lot of it retreading the same or every similar ground (it's a fair question since I'm investing the time =)?

It's very much a fair question. Maybe it wasn't the best use of the first two seasons, but my take on it is that they want to hammer their points home to show that his transformation didn't happen overnight.

And again, I don't see or believe in a master plan yet; from what they've said and I've seen and the nature of the beast they're just making it up as they go along (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, this was true of Breaking Bad, and most television, as well). It feels like it's almost indecision at this point though, or Jimmy's predicament is the producers: do they want to play it straight, be a comedy, be a Breaking Bad fan service show (they keep using elements, but the big fish are still out there =), and they're kind of trying to do a little of it all without fully committing to anything (even the show's original material; Nacho and, until recently, Chuck are almost non-factors). They're choosing half measures, when they should go all the way. :carcus:

I also think that they're making it up as they go along (the clearest example is the major step back they took at the beginning of the second season), but I rationalize their decisions as them trying to explore some themes and, as I said above, to emphasize some points, though perhaps I'm giving them too much credit and being naïve.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #115 on: April 13, 2016, 02:48:40 PM »
This is great news! :ubik:

I hope so. I'd like for the show to go as far as it wants to go, preferably in its own terms.

Well, I'm less restful about it given that news, but I'm always going to be wary because of the way Bad ended having to cram what seemed like at least a couple more seasons of story into 16 episodes.

It could definitely be that they haven't figured out how to make Saul work but, in my opinion, the Jimmy of the show is slowly but surely becoming the Saul of Breaking Bad, and I think we've already seen glimpses in Jimmy of what was par for the course for Saul (like when he defended the guy that sold stuff to Nacho, or when he's filmed his commercials, or to some extent even when he's helped Mike), and I think all that is happening is contributing to lead him there.

Yeah, but they had that from the start; so the show has almost become a complete detour from... the show. It's like they've said, they just like Jimmy more than they do Saul. But, the main tension of the show shouldn't be, "What's this show about?" After the latest episode things have certainly gotten more interesting though.

I'd say something similar about Mike as well (who is going deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole).

Yeah, we've got three shows here, and I actually like the divide because it means they can introduce Gus without involving Saul (since the creators are on record saying they "think" they didn't really know each other, but that Saul knew of him through Mike). Even if they never do bring him on or it's just a cameo at the end, that's where Mike has to be going as he gets deeper in the game and makes a name for himself.

It's very much a fair question. Maybe it wasn't the best use of the first two seasons, but my take on it is that they want to hammer their points home to show that his transformation didn't happen overnight.

Well, POINT TAKEN, guys! Saul now has a more nuanced and protracted origin than Batman. It's really not hard to see Slippin' Jimmy becoming Saul anyway, it's this detour, his back and forth flirtation with respectability, that's the anomaly. Plus, that's inherently anticlimactic because we already know which way he goes. "Will he? Won't he!?" I already know, he WON'T. =)

I also think that they're making it up as they go along (the clearest example is the major step back they took at the beginning of the second season), but I rationalize their decisions as them trying to explore some themes and, as I said above, to emphasize some points, though perhaps I'm giving them too much credit and being naïve.

Or I'm being too harsh and expecting the show to be something it's just not. I mean, like I've said, it almost feels like some noncommercial, meditative slice of life art piece at times, "We're not just about breaking bad all the time, maaaan". It's a good show, and unique, and maybe it'll end up being a total triumph in its own right, but it's certainly not how I expected.

Offline m

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #116 on: April 13, 2016, 06:40:52 PM »
Well, I'm less restful about it given that news, but I'm always going to be wary because of the way Bad ended having to cram what seemed like at least a couple more seasons of story into 16 episodes.

The possibility of something like that happening will definitely always be present but, quite unusually for me I must say, my outlook for this show is quite optimistic.

Yeah, but they had that from the start; so the show has almost become a complete detour from... the show. It's like they've said, they just like Jimmy more than they do Saul. But, the main tension of the show shouldn't be, "What's this show about?" After the latest episode things have certainly gotten more interesting though.

To me the tension is more "will this be the last straw? Is this what finally sends Jimmy over the edge". I agree that things are getting more interesting. I'm really looking forward to the season finale, and at the same time I can't believe how fast the season went by for me.

Yeah, we've got three shows here, and I actually like the divide because it means they can introduce Gus without involving Saul (since the creators are on record saying they "think" they didn't really know each other, but that Saul knew of him through Mike). Even if they never do bring him on or it's just a cameo at the end, that's where Mike has to be going as he gets deeper in the game and makes a name for himself.

Agreed. Speaking of Mike, I some times find him looking quite worn down and tired; instead of looking like a younger Mike, as it should be. I wonder if this is intentional...

Well, POINT TAKEN, guys! Saul now has a more nuanced and protracted origin than Batman.

:ganishka:

It's really not hard to see Slippin' Jimmy becoming Saul anyway, it's this detour, his back and forth flirtation with respectability, that's the anomaly. Plus, that's inherently anticlimactic because we already know which way he goes. "Will he? Won't he!?" I already know, he WON'T. =)

It is the anomaly but I think it does make sense. First he tried to do it for Chuck and then for Kim (though I admit the second time was a bit of a retcon). I agree that it might be anticlimactic but I still think it's quite interesting seeing Jimmy try knowing that one way or another he will fail.

Or I'm being too harsh and expecting the show to be something it's just not. I mean, like I've said, it almost feels like some noncommercial, meditative slice of life art piece at times, "We're not just about breaking bad all the time, maaaan". It's a good show, and unique, and maybe it'll end up being a total triumph in its own right, but it's certainly not how I expected.

Expectations, man. More than once they've done a number on me.

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #117 on: April 19, 2016, 06:41:57 PM »
Though I largely enjoyed the finale, this eloquently sums up what I've been trying to express about the show overall:

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/04/better-call-saul-season-2-finale/478839/

As for that finale: So, Gus, or not Gus? I say Gus, since all logic and the laws of dramatic inertia point to Gus, but given the show's dubious history on this front, as chronicled above, I wouldn't be surprised, though no less disappointed, if it somehow isn't.

Also, I'm sort of Team Chuck! He's a hateful bastard, but he's completely justified in this case considering the professional, persona, and legal injury Jimmy's scam did to him. Plus, he conned the ultimate conman... for the second time. Hell, Jimmy thinking Chuck at all loves him as a brother is the ultimate con; I think to Chuck it's just a most unfortunate legal fact.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 07:55:47 PM by Griffith »

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #118 on: January 11, 2017, 07:12:29 PM »

Offline Griffith

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #119 on: January 11, 2017, 07:34:52 PM »

Online Walter

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #120 on: January 11, 2017, 07:43:19 PM »
It's coming!  :guts:

https://youtu.be/e_3WzxpdUc0

I didn't even realize I wanted this until I saw it.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Griffith

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #121 on: January 11, 2017, 09:05:40 PM »
I didn't even realize I wanted this until I saw it.

But in the spirit of the show his story will focus exclusively on his attempts to make it as a legitimate small business owner. :iva: