Skully and his beherit-collection

Mizar

Œ©‰Ž•·‚©‰ŽŒ¾‚퉎
OK, Walter, good idea, I have moved the discussion to the right place.

I know that Skully and his strange behaviour of eating the beherits has been discussed before, and the general consensus I extracted from those discussions was that he eats them to prevent the birth of more apostles, and in that way lessen the power of the Godhand.

However, there is one thing that seems to contradict this explanation:

Why hasn't Skully eaten the beherit of Guts yet? Walter thought that it's because even SK couldn't take away the beherit from its master. But if this is true, then there seems to be no reason at all for Skully to eat them anymore, right? At least not if he collects them to lessen the power of the Godhand.

Any ideas how to fit this all into the current explanation of why he's eating those beherits? Or does someone perhaps have a better explanation for Skully's behaviour?
 

Majin_Tenshi

The can opener went bye-bye...
A. He isn't aware that Guts has it. (What it is possible...)
B. He thinks that Guts would never use it, except to attack the Godhand.
 
i like wally's idea with skully not being able to take it away from its master

he only eats the ones that come into his possession by fate
 

SaiyajinNoOuji

I'm still better than you
I know I added this in the chapter 219 thread but here it is again...

What if he is collecting them in hopes that one day when he feels that he has enough, that he can some how harness their power and increase his.

Since he can go between realms and what not as shown during the eclipse and what not, who is to say that he can not harness the power? 8)
 

Darok

Melancholy (Holy Martyr)
krebs4life said:
i like wally's idea with skully not being able to take it away from its master

he only eats the ones that come into his possession by fate
okee, but fate is controlled by Idea, right? Why fate your enemy to diminish your own strength?
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Skully is the fish going against the river you know, I think no behelits had to fall into his hands in the first place, he's doing this all alone.
 
P

psymont

Guest
i think he takes them to put them out of commision .... however, if somebody was to crack the pinyata that is SK it could cause some problems .... why has he let guts keep his? ....
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Regarding the "fate" issue, we're talking about causality, not fate. This changes things a bit. The basis of causality is that events have to take place so that other, domino events can happen. My theory about Skully is that he can only take the Beherits after a certain point, mostly after they've finished their main "purpose".

Ex: If Skully had slaughtered Roshinu and taken her Beherit before Guts even came into the picture, Guts would have never met the H.I.C.K.S. Or a myriad of other possibilities.

There could be beneficial effects from Beherit owners, so Skully can't or doesn't want to disrupt parts of causality.
 
Darok said:
krebs4life said:
i like wally's idea with skully not being able to take it away from its master

he only eats the ones that come into his possession by fate
okee, but fate is controlled by Idea, right? Why fate your enemy to diminish your own strength?

who said that Idea was against SK? he just weaves everyone's fate, he doesnt necessarily 'work against' anyone
 

Majin_Tenshi

The can opener went bye-bye...
krebs4life said:
Darok said:
krebs4life said:
i like wally's idea with skully not being able to take it away from its master

he only eats the ones that come into his possession by fate
okee, but fate is controlled by Idea, right? Why fate your enemy to diminish your own strength?

who said that Idea was against SK? he just weaves everyone's fate, he doesnt necessarily 'work against' anyone
You might even say everyone works for Idea.
 

Makkuro

El pueblo unido jamás será vencido!
Mizar said:
Why hasn't Skully eaten the beherit of Guts yet?

Because Gatsu'd just open up a can o' whoop-ass on his bony behind.

Er, seriously, though. The Skull Knight obviously has some sort of plans for Gatsu, and perhaps those plans involve the beherit in some way. We'll just have to wait to find out, I guess.
 
G

Genn21

Guest
:eek:..Heres a different sort of approach after killing godhand and destroying the other beherits, what if skullknight planned to use gutts and himself as the final godhand like the true justices of the world just the both of them
 

Mizar

Œ©‰Ž•·‚©‰ŽŒ¾‚퉎
I don't think that SK wants to claim the Godhand throne together with Guts. In my opinion it's more likely he's merely using Guts for his cause, just like Griffith was using his men for his dream.

And as for why Skully hasn't eaten Guts' beherit yet, I have thought up a little theory after I read all your thoughts. Actually, I basically stole the thoughts of Walter here and expanded them a bit, but ok. :p

First a few assumptions and general notes of mine:
  • SK knows a lot about the flow of causality, how much exactly is not known, but he might know something about the future of Guts and the owner of his beherit.
  • Idea has no influence over Skully, in other words, Skully stands outside the flow of causality. He's an observer. Idea can't do shit about him directly.
  • SK doesn't want to interfere too much with causality, he mostly observes, eats a few beherits, has a little fun with Zodd, and rescues Guts and Caska on the side.
  • SK has a peculiar interest in Guts, probably because he sees that Guts has the potential to be able to ignore the laws of causality, just like he can. And that might become of quite some good use to him.
Now why didn't Skully eat the beherit? Well, as Walter correctly mentioned the exact same question could be asked about Roshinu and her beherit, and even Griffith and his beherit. But here is my take on it:

Skully has some big plans, and in order to succeed he needs to proceed very carefully and skillfully. He can't just go and mess around with the flow of causality or he might fuck up things completely for himself and his (master)plan. So Skully needs to pull the strings of causality very subtly if he wants his plan to work in his favor. In the same line of thinking one can see why Skully can't just barge in wherever he smells a beherit, and simply steal it from someone's hands and eat it. It causes too many ripples in the pond, so to speak. No, he simply awaits for the beherit to leave the owner's hands, and then quietly, without disturbing the flow of causality, he picks it up and eats it. That's why I think he hasn't eaten Guts' beherit yet, or why he didn't eat Griffith's beherit. It's all part of his (master)plan, and he just can't afford any mistakes. 8)

Well, what do you think? Did I miss something here?
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
I don't think the laws of causality have no effect at all on skully, it's more that he just can sometimes overlook it and then eat a behelit, etc imho.
Your theory about a masterplan needing very subtle actions is interesting though :).
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Aazealh said:
I don't think the laws of causality have no effect at all on skully, it's more that he just can sometimes overlook it and then eat a behelit, etc imho.
Your theory about a masterplan needing very subtle actions is interesting though :).
"Everything is bound by the law of causality... except for... that guy, and a few others... oh and that one dude. Well, a WHOLE LOT of stuff is bound by the law of causality!"

Yes, aazealh, we are in agreement. 8)
 

Mizar

Œ©‰Ž•·‚©‰ŽŒ¾‚퉎
OK, I know that in real world scientific terms the law of causality (principle of cause and effect) applies to basically everything (I won't start about quantum mechanics here), so the same thing should apply to Skully as well, of course. If Skully kicks a rock, that rock will react according to this law of causality, obviously. Now if we're going to apply the same law to people's thoughts and actions, things get a little trickier. But Berserk seems to do exactly that. People don't have any free will in Berserk, since they are all bound by the simple law of causality (chains of cause and effect). And Idea is the one constructing those chains (through Godhand).

But perhaps I'm mixing up this causality thing with the way Idea is controlling people's fate? Or am I mixing up the 'law of causality' with the 'flow of causality'? I think I remember SK saying that Guts could be like a jumping fish in the river with the ability to swim upstreams or something. Now I imagine the flow of the river as the flow of causality, and Guts (and Skully) as the one being able to ignore (swim upstreams) that flow. So it logically follows that then he would be able to stay outside this flow (law?) of causality. Am I being wrong here somewhere?
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Mizar said:
I remember SK saying that Guts could be like a jumping fish in the river with the ability to swim upstreams or something. Now I imagine the flow of the river as the flow of causality, and Guts (and Skully) as the one being able to ignore (swim upstreams) that flow.

Yes, Skully (and Guts to a lesser extent) are like fishes that can jump out of the 'river of causality', but that doesn't mean they can ignore it, the fish always fall back to the river... And the fish also can't live without the river (OK, that might be stretching it a little).

That's why Skully's plan must be very subtle if he ever has one, because he can't make more that tiny jumps out of the flow of causality.
 
T

temporary

Guest
discussed before, and the general consensus I extracted from those discussions was that he eats them to prevent the birth of more apostles, and in that way lessen the power of the Godhand.
 
More or less, i also agree that SK was trying to make full use of Gutz to attain his goal, though what was the ambition was not known, I dun really believe he was that kind. Assume that he is Gaiseric, the reasons for his downfall was mainly due to his cruelty and evil act!
 
but he learn the evil of his ways. people can change over time. skully is really a nice guy now.


take that with however much salt you are able to obtain. and taking those little pacekts of salt from McDonalds DOES NOT count.
 

thedarkhawk

grrrrrrrrrrr
I just thought maby skully wants guts to be what skully is now killing the god hand :eek:

maby skully is'nt taking away gatsu's behilts because maby skully wants gatsu to eat the behilts! ::)
 
G

Genn21

Guest
:) , skullknight could be eating the behelits also to provoke godhand, i really dont know what happens when one godhand dies or what happened to no#5 the one before the Femto, but i wouldnt highly doubt that skullknight was involved in it since he seems to be the only one outside of guts we currently know that has made contact with godhand and lived ( and for some odd reason his horse can cross dimensions ) ,, i could also say what if skullknight is a renegade godhand going against a FATE that he has already forseen.. ( thats a assumption but its a idea on why he has his powers ) .. but i really do beleive he was the king of Gaiserac when the 5 angels wailed on him so hardly, ( and maybe he was doing somthing a little more than over taxing his people.. to PROVOKE GOD HIMSELF and trying to still continue his work ) these are all new current assumptions im working on riddle them with your logic if you must but thats what there her for ( ready aim fire !!! )
 
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