Author Topic: Side-effects from bearing the Brand of Sacrifice  (Read 3747 times)

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Offline gabrielkr7

Side-effects from bearing the Brand of Sacrifice
« on: August 05, 2015, 02:17:33 AM »
Since it's not only something Guts has been presumably displaying at several battle instances, but also a possibility that has even been speculated by Emperor Ganishka during their clash, due to the fact that she also bears the Brand of Sacrifice, wouldn't Casca be bestowed with a far greater physical potential than before the eclipse as well?

 I mean, this actually makes sense enough to be feasible, right? Because, if it ends up turning out to be true, it would be awesome to have someone in pair with Guts combat-wise, which therefore would be all the more exciting, being it no one else but Casca! Besides, I believe it would be a very welcome shift that'd most certainly compliment her character development rather nicely, rendering her able to stand her ground on her own, instead of restricting herself to that personification of a defenseless damsel in distress that you've seen for the past several years, and then finally back to her old self we've all come to hold dear.

In conclusion, if there's something allegedly evident that I might have missed and pounds this possibly recurring theory to the ground, please, take it easy on me and hold your pitchforks down, bearing in mind that I've only read it through once, after all.

Online Walter

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Re: Side-effects from bearing the Brand of Sacrifice
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2015, 02:53:04 AM »
The brand doesn't empower anyone. Guts became strong by fighting through endless nights as a branded one, and of course honing his skills by taking down apostles.

If anything, I think Casca will have a tough uphill battle ahead, if she's willing to take up the sword again. Her body hasn't exactly been in top combat form these past 2-3  years. Whereas Guts has just become a monster.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline gabrielkr7

Re: Side-effects from bearing the Brand of Sacrifice
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2015, 03:15:11 AM »
So then how would you explain the reason why Guts has survived through that onslaught of thunderbolts during his fight with Emperor Ganishka? While it's agreeable that Guts hasn't brought forward any irrefutable evidence that his monstruous strength has stemmed from the brand, it's pretty much impossible for it not to have anything to do with this specific instance, at least. Wouldn't you think so?

Online Walter

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Re: Side-effects from bearing the Brand of Sacrifice
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2015, 03:25:57 AM »
Why is that particular feat more unbelievable than all the other dire circumstances he's survived in his life?

Anyway, don't you think that if the brand endowed strength, it would be something commented on by this point in the story? Instead, it's treated as a curse.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline gabrielkr7

Re: Side-effects from bearing the Brand of Sacrifice
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2015, 04:13:09 AM »
Think about this. Since this story is depicted around the Dark Ages, a time where iliteracy was almost like a general rule and many miths were still deemed conceavable, a man with such strength as Guts' could still be something to regard as possible for a human to become. Furthermore, taking into account that only a very low percentage of the population would be able to tell where to draw the line, it wouldn't be so surprising for it to be seldom mentioned along Guts' journey. Now if you'd rather just accept the idea that the mangaka intended for Guts' power to be only his than to consider the possibility of it being affected by some external factor is entirely up to you. I get that it sounds better that way, with Guts posing as something like an unsullied being in contrast to all the corrupted ones that succumbed to evil, and with no crutches to make him into the man he is today. However, I don't think there is anything that renders this theory any more valid and credible than the former. That is, unless you have something in store to prove it wrong. I'm trying to completely disregard what I "want" to believe in here, so I can scratch this off my head. Problem here is that I'm not convinced and don't want to have the topic ditched so dismissively, as if it doesn't even matter at all. Just trying to clear this out, man. I'm sure you and the gang here have been involved with Berserk long enough to be able to get to the bottom of this.

Offline JMP

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Re: Side-effects from bearing the Brand of Sacrifice
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2015, 04:49:15 AM »
So then how would you explain the reason why Guts has survived through that onslaught of thunderbolts during his fight with Emperor Ganishka?
I chalked that up to the power of the Berserk armor.

Guts is one super strong dude, it's true. But he got that way from his massive amounts of training and experience. Plus now he has the Berserk armor, which grants him more power than any human, extremely strong or otherwise could hope to possess.

There's nothing I've seen that suggests the brand grants anyone extra physical strength. A person with the brand can sense apostles, it may have an effect on some magical stuff (like when Schierke thought it might have been the reason Guts' party was able to make it to the spirit tree mansion when normal humans shouldn't have been able to). Other than that it just attracts a host of evil spirits and nasty creatures that want to torment/devour Guts and Casca.
A good sword, even if it rusts and dulls, has good steel that never rusts left over in the wick. That steel's the ultimate steel. Even if it cracks, if you return it to the fire, it's sure to be reborn. - Godot

Offline Skeleton

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Re: Side-effects from bearing the Brand of Sacrifice
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2015, 05:03:47 AM »
also a possibility that has even been speculated by Emperor Ganishka during their clash

I think you misunderstood the scene.  Ganishka wasn't speculating.  He sensed Guts' connection to the "evil realm" (i.e. the brand) and assumed he was one of Griffith's generals, possibly (probably?) an apostle.  However, he later realizes his mistake after seeing the brand.  While he does mention Guts' extraordinary toughness/life force, he neither mentions strength nor connects either trait to the brand itself. 

In fact, you could say he says the opposite because the first thing he does after realizing Guts is branded is express amazement at the fact he's alive at all.

Furthermore, taking into account that only a very low percentage of the population would be able to tell where to draw the line, it wouldn't be so surprising for it to be seldom mentioned along Guts' journey.

The problem isn't that the common folk haven't mentioned anything.  It's that the spiritual entities (the God Hand, SK, etc) who actually know what they're talking about and have described a litany of effects of being branded (being doomed to hell, having to live in the interstice, feeling pain when near demonkind, etc) haven't mentioned anything about increased physical ability.

That is, unless you have something in store to prove it wrong.

The problem is you can't prove it wrong because a character will never say "oh, by the way, that brand doesn't increase your physical abilities in case you were wondering."  We can only go by what's stated in the manga.

Honestly, does the idea really make sense?  The brand marks people who are meant to be sacrificed.  What's the point of marking a sacrifice with something that'd make it harder for them to be killed?
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 05:35:57 AM by Skeleton »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Side-effects from bearing the Brand of Sacrifice
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2015, 10:27:53 AM »
Since it's not only something Guts has been presumably displaying at several battle instances

Guts started displaying incredible feats from the moment he was born.

a possibility that has even been speculated by Emperor Ganishka during their clash

Ganishka never speculates about this during his encounter with Guts, as was explained to you.

due to the fact that she also bears the Brand of Sacrifice, wouldn't Casca be bestowed with a far greater physical potential than before the eclipse as well?

Casca has not shown any signs of having superior strength since she was branded (there are several examples of this throughout the manga). This is for the simple reason that being branded does not bestow one with physical abilities. The Brand of Sacrifice is a curse, not a boon. It would be nonsensical for it to have beneficial properties. That being said, by existing within the Interstice between the corporeal and astral worlds, branded people can sometimes see and do things that normal people cannot.

I mean, this actually makes sense enough to be feasible, right?

Nope!

Because, if it ends up turning out to be true, it would be awesome to have someone in pair with Guts combat-wise, which therefore would be all the more exciting, being it no one else but Casca! Besides, I believe it would be a very welcome shift that'd most certainly compliment her character development rather nicely, rendering her able to stand her ground on her own, instead of restricting herself to that personification of a defenseless damsel in distress that you've seen for the past several years, and then finally back to her old self we've all come to hold dear.

It will certainly be nice to see Casca in a more active, fighting role again. However, Berserk is primarily the story of Guts, and it was always clear throughout the manga that he is unmatched in battle. Therefore, even putting aside your misconceptions about the Brand, I do not believe Casca will rise up to be his equal. While I naturally expect she will fight alongside him, like his other companions do, it remains to be seen how big of a role she will play in that specific regard.

So then how would you explain the reason why Guts has survived through that onslaught of thunderbolts during his fight with Emperor Ganishka?

Guts was only hit twice by Ganishka's attacks. The first time, Serpico deflected the strike. The second time, they dodged. The third time, Guts was struck down and it took a heavy toll. The fourth time, he used the Dragon Slayer as a lightning rod. Then the apostles arrived, and Guts was exposed a second and last time during his desperate attack with Zodd. That left him badly injured, unable to stay up more than a moment before falling on his face. And we know that he had to spend a long time recuperating from that while on the ship, with the elves working round the clock.

So really, I'm not sure what's so special about this occurrence compared to the many others where Guts endured terrible situations.

And if you still need it explained away, it's really no trouble either. Guts was wearing a metallic armor (one with magical properties to boot), that would have conducted most of the current while his fleshly body's much higher impedance prevented it from passing directly through. Besides, plenty of people in the real world have survived lightning strikes, so it's not unheard of. And Ganishka zapped Daiba when he first appeared, yet the old man was mostly fine, so we shouldn't assume his magical bolts each carried a full gigajoule of energy. Lastly, Zodd was hit more times than Guts, yet recovered without problem, showing the clear difference between the strongest, most resilient man in the world, and a bonafide supernatural monster.

Since this story is depicted around the Dark Ages, a time where iliteracy was almost like a general rule and many miths were still deemed conceavable, a man with such strength as Guts' could still be something to regard as possible for a human to become.

Berserk is set in a fictional world where supernatural events actually take place.

Now if you'd rather just accept the idea that the mangaka intended for Guts' power to be only his than to consider the possibility of it being affected by some external factor is entirely up to you. I get that it sounds better that way, with Guts posing as something like an unsullied being in contrast to all the corrupted ones that succumbed to evil, and with no crutches to make him into the man he is today.

I'm sorry to break to you, but that's exactly what the mangaka intended. It has been repeatedly emphasized in interviews, as well as through Guts' own dialog in the manga, that he is human "right down to the marrow of his bones". His desperate struggle as a human fighting supernatural monsters is at the very core of Berserk.

On a side note, I think you might want to reconsider your tone here, suggesting that Walter, founder of this website and an avid follower of Berserk for over 15 years, is refusing to see the obvious truth of your assertions while you pleaded for us to "take it easy" on you and "hold our pitchforks down" just 2 posts ago.

However, I don't think there is anything that renders this theory any more valid and credible than the former. That is, unless you have something in store to prove it wrong.

Just so you know, typically the burden of proof lies on the person making claims, not on those dismissing those claims. Anyway, I suggest you to read the manga again more carefully. The proof you're looking for permeates the entire story.

Guts is one super strong dude, it's true. But he got that way from his massive amounts of training and experience. Plus now he has the Berserk armor, which grants him more power than any human, extremely strong or otherwise could hope to possess.

The Berserk's armor only enhances what power Guts already does possess. If a random guy were to put it on, he would not be able to stand up to unarmored Guts.

Offline gabrielkr7

Re: Side-effects from bearing the Brand of Sacrifice
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2015, 11:24:47 AM »
Thank you guys for all the inputs, I truly appreciate the effort you've put to enlighten me, as you really did a great job at quelling any doubts I had about this specific subject. Also, I apologize for being somewhat disrespectful and patronizing to you, Walter. I guess it's just that I felt strongly compelled to clear this up, and ended up misinterpreting your words. Well, looks like once again I've let my expectations cloud my judgement, so no Super Guts or Casca for me. Damn, I guess I just really did want to believe in that, talk about self-contradiction.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Side-effects from bearing the Brand of Sacrifice
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2015, 11:46:46 AM »
Thank you guys for all the inputs, I truly appreciate the effort you've put to enlighten me, as you really did a great job at quelling any doubts I had about this specific subject.

Glad to have been able to help!

Well, looks like once again I've let my expectations cloud my judgement, so no Super Guts or Casca for me. Damn, I guess I just really did want to believe in that, talk about self-contradiction.

Don't be too disappointed, Guts is already pretty "super" by most standards, and I strongly believe that Casca's return will be glorious. Who knows what equipment and skills they might pick up in Elfhelm?

Offline gabrielkr7

Re: Side-effects from bearing the Brand of Sacrifice
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2015, 12:21:15 PM »
Right, the Elfhelm. I keep forgetting about it and its pivotal role in the series, since the manga has been mostly about the great Falconia and its high and mighty war demons. I can't say I don't enjoy it though, given that it only adds to the dramatic and oh so fulfilling mood that it's going to provide us with, when they reach up their downfall. Yup, I'm bitter alright.

Offline Oburi

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Re: Side-effects from bearing the Brand of Sacrifice
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2015, 02:50:41 PM »

 so we shouldn't assume his magical bolts each carried a full gigajoule of energy..

It's not so often you get to see "gigajoule" used in a sentence   :ubik:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Side-effects from bearing the Brand of Sacrifice
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2015, 03:10:21 PM »
Right, the Elfhelm. I keep forgetting about it and its pivotal role in the series, since the manga has been mostly about the great Falconia and its high and mighty war demons. I can't say I don't enjoy it though, given that it only adds to the dramatic and oh so fulfilling mood that it's going to provide us with, when they reach up their downfall. Yup, I'm bitter alright.

Well I wouldn't say the manga has mostly been about Falconia, that's only a recent development. And like you say, the bigger they are, the harder they fall.

It's not so often you get to see "gigajoule" used in a sentence

That's how I roll. :badbone:

Offline Rezin

Re: Side-effects from bearing the Brand of Sacrifice
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2015, 07:37:38 PM »
While we're on the subject of the brand, I'd like to ask if the physical mark itself has any function other than to label the body for sacrifice. In other words, if Guts were to slice it out of his skin(or does the mark go all the way down to the very bone?) it wouldn't really change anything since the curse itself has already been applied, correct?
Aside from making it more difficult to apply a seal to that area of course.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Side-effects from bearing the Brand of Sacrifice
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2015, 07:41:14 PM »
While we're on the subject of the brand, I'd like to ask if the physical mark itself has any function other than to label the body for sacrifice. In other words, if Guts were to slice it out of his skin(or does the mark go all the way down to the very bone?) it wouldn't really change anything since the curse itself has already been applied, correct?

The Brand is indeed not just the physical mark itself. It's a curse on the soul. Hacking at it wouldn't fundamentally change anything.

Offline Rezin

Re: Side-effects from bearing the Brand of Sacrifice
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2015, 07:45:00 PM »
Got it, thanks.