Author Topic: Farnese  (Read 2366 times)

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Offline lazarus327

Farnese
« on: September 20, 2015, 10:42:22 PM »
Though I have heard insistence otherwise on these forums, I am thinking that the Beherit that is traveling along with Guts right now will end up with Farnese.  I will keep this short and simple, and hopefully I won't get completely pwned by the admins of this interesting forum.  Please note that I have read quite a bit of the forum, and have even read a few posts on this topic, but have not read anything that specifically addresses these points.  If there is any repetition, I apologize in advance!

To my point:

She has a very twisted past.  Although she is changing, she is changing due to Guts' influence.  (I can't pretend that the others do not have influence, but I do believe he is the biggest contributor.)   There are a few slides that indicate she has a lot of affection for guts, to the point where she withdrew from the astral realm because she could not handle hearing more about his relationship with Casca.  She even kind of flipped out on Casca for her lack of sanity/responsiveness with people, particularly Guts.  She just doesn't understand why he cares for her so much.

I am wondering if/when Casca is brought back to some level of sanity, and things begin to normalize for her, if this would somehow push her over the edge.  Could watching Guts and Casca bridge the gaps in the current state of their relationship provoke a jealous response?

Jealousy can be an ugly thing.  Especially when you don't understand the connections involved.  In my own life, i saw a friend of mine go COMPLETELY NUTS when I started dating her best friend.  This stuff happens, and is very human.  Miura frequently touches on both the best and worst of human nature in this Manga, and I can't help but wonder if he will take things in this direction. 

She even has a perfect sacrifice!  Serpico would be a likely candidate given their history and connection. 

Obviously, there is still no evidence that the beherit will even be used by anyone in the group, but I am a fan of the theory that it is hitching a ride on guts till it gets to the next person it is destined for.  The other objection I have is she may end up getting to know Roderick better and decide he is a better fit.  Not totally sure his motivations are all that great(the arranged marriage), though he seems to be decent enough as a person so far.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Great forum.  I have been lurking for a few months, and Just finished my second read of the Manga.  I am having to go through it again because I keep staying up late reading it and find myself too tired to catch some of the smaller, yet important details.  This is also my first manga ever, so it has been fun to explore a new artistic medium.  I have even started sketching since I picked up reading Manga.  First time in years!

OK... discuss!

Offline Rezin

Re: Farnese
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2015, 11:59:08 PM »
I can see where you're coming from, but I don't think Farnese's jealousy towards Casca will be enough to push her over the edge into making the decision to sacrifice someone and transform into an apostle.
Just can't see her going for the whole "if I can't have him nobody can" angle.
I think she'll be able to overcome her feelings of frustration and anger. Shes in the best mental state we've seen her be in and has newfound confidence in herself from effectively learning and applying the magic Schierke has been teaching her. Plus I believe she has grown to care too much for Casca, Guts & Co. to cause them such grievous harm.
The other objection I have is she may end up getting to know Roderick better and decide he is a better fit.  Not totally sure his motivations are all that great(the arranged marriage), though he seems to be decent enough as a person so far.
This scenario sounds more likely to happen. Surely we'll get to see more of Roderick, it would be a shame to think he was only planted into the story to serve purely as the transport to Skellig.

This is also my first manga ever, so it has been fun to explore a new artistic medium.  I have even started sketching since I picked up reading Manga.  First time in years!
You couldn't have picked a better series to start out with than Berserk  :guts:
Nice to know its inspired you to pick up sketching again, feel free to share some Berserk doodles if you ever decide to make em!

Offline Admiral_Yang_Wen-li

Re: Farnese
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2015, 12:06:28 AM »
Of the people in Guts party, Farnese is surely the most likely. And of course, Serpico would be her sacrifice. If this were to happen, who would die? In the Black Swordsman Arc, when we flashback to when the Count sacrificed his wife, he personally killed her. I assume that means whoever an apostle sacrifices would be killed by that apostle, assuming it's not an eclipse. It's also likely that Serpico could defeat Farnese in her apostle form, even if Guts and the others weren't there for the fight.

This is why I doubt anybody in Guts' party would use the Beherit. They would likely lose their fight against their sacrifice.

Offline lazarus327

Re: Farnese
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2015, 12:21:37 AM »
I can see where you're coming from, but I don't think Farnese's jealousy towards Casca will be enough to push her over the edge into making the decision to sacrifice someone and transform into an apostle.
Just can't see her going for the whole "if I can't have him nobody can" angle.
I think she'll be able to overcome her feelings of frustration and anger. Shes in the best mental state we've seen her be in and has newfound confidence in herself from effectively learning and applying the magic Schierke has been teaching her. Plus I believe she has grown to care too much for Casca, Guts & Co. to cause them such grievous harm. This scenario sounds more likely to happen. Surely we'll get to see more of Roderick, it would be a shame to think he was only planted into the story to serve purely as the transport to Skellig.
You couldn't have picked a better series to start out with than Berserk  :guts:
Nice to know its inspired you to pick up sketching again, feel free to share some Berserk doodles if you ever decide to make em!

Actually, my avatar is a sketch of the snake apostle, though it is crude at best.  I never was GREAT at it but I can do decent imitations.  That picture was one of the few that I could handle since it lacks the insane amount of detail that Miura's other slides tend to have.  I have no formal training in any kind of sketching so I just do the best I can and have plenty of erasers handy.

Thanks for the response.  I still feel like the beherit has to serve a major story line purpose of some sort and I am dying to know.  That question, along with SK's past, and the history of the God Hand are all mysteries that have the tiniest bits and pieces of foreshadowing that frankly are driving me crazy.  A friend of mine and I will sit there for a couple hours speculating about all this stuff and neither of us are anywhere near a real answer.

Thats part of what makes it all fun though, I suppose.  I am making one more go on this Manga as I have some really bad habits of scrolling too fast when there is no dialogue.  I have missed little bits and pieces here and there so I am limiting myself to how much I will consume in one sitting to make sure I take it all in this time.  Just about to pick up on the Golden Age arc again.  3rd times a charm!

Offline Delta Phi

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Re: Farnese
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2015, 02:15:00 AM »
At this point, I think if anyone in Guts' group use the beherit I'll be pretty disappointed. I don't want to rule it out, but all of these people have seen first hand the horrors and intentions of apostles working under Femto. I think it would completely betray the integrity of any of the characters (especially someone such as Farnese, who has made impressive developments over the course of her character arc). It's possible that some dramatic events could suddenly change someone's disposition (and mine), however.

My bet is SK will find a use for it at a crucial moment. :badbone:

Offline lazarus327

Re: Farnese
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2015, 02:47:46 AM »
That is a good thought.  The other thing that just occurred to me is perhaps if Guts needs to face off with any of the other God Hand down the road, he would need a way to ring their door bell since they do not have a physical form to attack like Femto/Griffith does currently.

Not sure that is how I would want to go about it though.  Seems like a great way to get outmatched quickly though.  1 God Hand would be bad enough, let alone dealing with all of them at once.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Farnese
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2015, 12:03:45 PM »
Though I have heard insistence otherwise on these forums, I am thinking that the Beherit that is traveling along with Guts right now will end up with Farnese.  I will keep this short and simple, and hopefully I won't get completely pwned by the admins of this interesting forum.

Hello lazarus327 and welcome to the forum. Generally speaking, if you've seen us insist about something on the forum, it means we're pretty sure of it. Which in turn means you can be sure that arguing otherwise will get you replies telling you why you're wrong. :slan:

She has a very twisted past.  Although she is changing, she is changing due to Guts' influence.  (I can't pretend that the others do not have influence, but I do believe he is the biggest contributor.)

You're taking a few shortcuts here. For one thing, Farnese isn't just changing: she has changed. She's a very different person from who she was when we were first introduced to her. And while Guts was the driving force behind that change, and still plays a key role in her life, right now the main factor behind her newfound confidence is her study of magic under Schierke.

There are a few slides that indicate she has a lot of affection for guts, to the point where she withdrew from the astral realm because she could not handle hearing more about his relationship with Casca.  She even kind of flipped out on Casca for her lack of sanity/responsiveness with people, particularly Guts.  She just doesn't understand why he cares for her so much.

I am wondering if/when Casca is brought back to some level of sanity, and things begin to normalize for her, if this would somehow push her over the edge.  Could watching Guts and Casca bridge the gaps in the current state of their relationship provoke a jealous response?

Farnese has a crush on Guts, there's no need to beat around the bush. But she also knows that she can't have him. She knows he's all about Casca. So in that regard, she's already somewhat jealous, even though she greatly cares for Casca. The point is, there's no edge for her to be pushed over. She's not going to be in agony when it happens because she's already bothered by it (and trying to deal with her feelings) right now. And then she also has Roderick as a suitor and Serpico as her most faithful of companions.

I believe it will be more interesting to see her move past her feelings for Guts, like she's moved past so many other things, than simply have that of all things get her to become an apostle. It could even be a way for her to relate to Casca once she's back to herself, as her feelings for Guts, born from sheer reverence, are not unlike those Casca had for Griffith.

She even has a perfect sacrifice!  Serpico would be a likely candidate given their history and connection.

If her unrequited love for Guts was to be the reason for her becoming an apostle, the sacrifice would have to be Guts. That's how it works. So unfortunately this just isn't possible.

Obviously, there is still no evidence that the beherit will even be used by anyone in the group, but I am a fan of the theory that it is hitching a ride on guts till it gets to the next person it is destined for.  The other objection I have is she may end up getting to know Roderick better and decide he is a better fit.  Not totally sure his motivations are all that great(the arranged marriage), though he seems to be decent enough as a person so far.

Roderick doesn't want Farnese because of the arranged marriage, he genuinely likes her. Also, the fact the beherit may yet get to play its intended role does not necessarily mean it will be used by someone from Guts' group. It could just as well be someone they've yet to meet, and it could all be thwarted before it comes to be. Or it could play a completely different role, like what the Skull Knight does with them. There are many possibilities. We might learn more in Elfhelm.

Of the people in Guts party, Farnese is surely the most likely.

I don't know about that. I actually think the one with the least going for him right now is Serpico. Farnese is moving on, but what is he doing?

In the Black Swordsman Arc, when we flashback to when the Count sacrificed his wife, he personally killed her.

Not so fast. It's always been a bit unclear whether those appendages holding pieces of his wife were parts of him (similar to how Zondark ended up) or of the Vortex of Souls. But then in volume 34, we saw Ganishka's sacrifice, his son, being grabbed by souls from the Vortex. That would seem to imply the sacrifices are usually taken by the Vortex of Souls.

I still feel like the beherit has to serve a major story line purpose of some sort and I am dying to know.

Welcome to the club. :slan:

I am making one more go on this Manga as I have some really bad habits of scrolling too fast when there is no dialogue.

That doesn't happen when you're turning pages, which is what you should be doing. :miura: Supporting the author by purchasing his work is something that we're pretty adamant about doing.

The other thing that just occurred to me is perhaps if Guts needs to face off with any of the other God Hand down the road, he would need a way to ring their door bell since they do not have a physical form to attack like Femto/Griffith does currently.

That is not how it works, as Flora explained to Guts in volume 24. Beherits are controlled by the Idea of Evil. That is why they are always where they should be, when they should be. They can't be used as a shortcut to the God Hand in the way Guts would want to. And besides, like you said, that would not be an ideal fighting scenario for him.