Author Topic: About Branded Sacrifices...  (Read 2806 times)

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Offline Lohki

About Branded Sacrifices...
« on: October 18, 2015, 10:40:03 PM »
So, I think that during the encounter with the Count and God Hand, it was kind of implied that a person could not be a sacrifice multiple times, but I'm not really sure. My question though is what about one of the Branded making sacrifices, ergo becoming an Apostle? Do you guys think it would be allowed by the God Hand, and further, that Casca could be the intended owner of the the Beherit in Guts possession? I just wondered about it myself, after seeing a mention of the Idea in the Berserk reddit, but the thread never gained much ground. That and it seemed like a interesting enough discussion topic to use for my first post. :D

Offline Aazealh

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Re: About Branded Sacrifices...
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2015, 10:53:49 PM »
So, I think that during the encounter with the Count and God Hand, it was kind of implied that a person could not be a sacrifice multiple times

Yes.

My question though is what about one of the Branded making sacrifices, ergo becoming an Apostle? Do you guys think it would be allowed by the God Hand

A branded person surviving the ceremony is already an anomaly, so it is highly doubtful that the Idea of Evil would choose them to become an apostle. The case that blurs the line the most is that of the Beherit Apostle. He sacrificed "the world around him", which included himself, and he bore the brand on his tongue as a result. He was unique, though, and it's still different from what you're saying.

Casca could be the intended owner of the the Beherit in Guts possession?

You can be certain this won't be the case. It just doesn't work, no matter how you think of it.

Offline Lohki

Re: About Branded Sacrifices...
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2015, 11:01:10 PM »
Right, I didn't really think it was likely, I was just mainly indulging in speculation and theory-crafting. Out of curiosity, do you or anyone else have any speculations or ideas about who the Beherit may be meant for? Or might Guts do something similar to what Skull Knight does with all of the Beherits he has ingested. (Obviously with less sword swallowing, >.< don't think the Dragonslayer would be amenable for that task.)

Offline Aazealh

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Re: About Branded Sacrifices...
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2015, 05:27:20 AM »
Right, I didn't really think it was likely, I was just mainly indulging in speculation and theory-crafting. Out of curiosity, do you or anyone else have any speculations or ideas about who the Beherit may be meant for? Or might Guts do something similar to what Skull Knight does with all of the Beherits he has ingested. (Obviously with less sword swallowing, >.< don't think the Dragonslayer would be amenable for that task.)

Yep, there's been a lot of speculation about it over the years. Personally, while I'm sure it'll play a role, I'm not convinced it'll be used in the traditional manner. Elfhelm might provide an avenue for that. If you feel like it, there's a ton of threads on the topic you can search for.

Offline the immortal bob

Re: About Branded Sacrifices...
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2015, 02:55:14 AM »
This ties into a speculative trend that i have that gets fueled by the manga earlier in the series.  I don't know if Guts can use the Beherits, but i always felt a heavy theme that a big temptation for him was the question or the possibility of intending to.  Not that i'm speculating he intended to do it, it's everything he is opposed to, and on top of that being Human and finding meaning in a humanist way with all the pitfalls and frailties seem very important to Guts.  He always seem juxtaposed that way in his fights with Zodd.  For some reason it seemed like when he was carrying around the Beherits for what i believe(uncertain of if this was stated, cannot remember.) was to keep it from finding it's way into another person's hands, that he would get very heavy frodo and the ring vibes.   In the same way he has to grapple with the reality of the armor, slowly tearing him apart and possibly(?) making him less human.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: About Branded Sacrifices...
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2015, 11:12:46 AM »
This ties into a speculative trend that i have that gets fueled by the manga earlier in the series.  I don't know if Guts can use the Beherits, but i always felt a heavy theme that a big temptation for him was the question or the possibility of intending to.  Not that i'm speculating he intended to do it, it's everything he is opposed to, and on top of that being Human and finding meaning in a humanist way with all the pitfalls and frailties seem very important to Guts.

I wouldn't call it a heavy theme since it's not prominent, but it's certainly been brought to the table, and not just early in the series. The encounter with Slan in volume 26 comes to mind.

For some reason it seemed like when he was carrying around the Beherits for what i believe(uncertain of if this was stated, cannot remember.) was to keep it from finding it's way into another person's hands, that he would get very heavy frodo and the ring vibes.

He only ever had a single beherit and he's still carrying it around! We also get a confirmation of why he kept it when he shows it to Flora in volume 24, asking her how he can use it to get to the God Hand. This echoes what he tells Vargas in volume 2, that it is a key to summon the 5 members of the God Hand. A key to his revenge, in short, but as Flora explains, that's just not how it works.

In the same way he has to grapple with the reality of the armor, slowly tearing him apart and possibly(?) making him less human.

I don't think the armor makes him less human, but it definitely tears him apart in every sense of the word.

Offline the immortal bob

Re: About Branded Sacrifices...
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2015, 04:34:22 AM »
I wouldn't call it a heavy theme since it's not prominent, but it's certainly been brought to the table, and not just early in the series. The encounter with Slan in volume 26 comes to mind.

He only ever had a single beherit and he's still carrying it around! We also get a confirmation of why he kept it when he shows it to Flora in volume 24, asking her how he can use it to get to the God Hand. This echoes what he tells Vargas in volume 2, that it is a key to summon the 5 members of the God Hand. A key to his revenge, in short, but as Flora explains, that's just not how it works.

I don't think the armor makes him less human, but it definitely tears him apart in every sense of the word.

Yes Slan's involvement seems to be another instance of temptation.  I had forgotten he gave a specific reason for what he intended to use the beherit for.  Very interesting that he still has it.

DarkFalconKnight

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Re: About Branded Sacrifices...
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2015, 06:33:58 AM »
I don't think the armor makes him less human, but it definitely tears him apart in every sense of the word.
(how do i quote..)
 Yeah, that sounds about it. However, he is losing a lot of "human" abilities, like being able to experience joyful things.

By the way, i am new here and this is my first post after lurking around on the forum for months!

I am guessing this is the correct thread to post in if i have any questions regarding the branded sacrifices?
Personally i have always wondered if there is any chance that Femto/Griffith has less power than expected, since two sacrifices got away. Is there any information on this?
I am just assuming that those branded need to die or be killed for apostles or "new" members of the god hand to reach their full potential? Thanks in advance! I love all the effort people put into this forum and i can not wait to be part of it!  :daiba:
« Last Edit: December 05, 2015, 06:56:45 AM by Aazealh »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: About Branded Sacrifices...
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2015, 06:49:58 AM »
Hello DarkFalconKnight and welcome to the forum. :serpico:

(how do i quote..)

There's a button just for it at the top right corner of each individual message. Additionally you click this little pictogram once within the window to write your own post to insert quoting markups in it.

Yeah, that sounds about it. However, he is losing a lot of "human" abilities, like being able to experience joyful things.

I don't know about that. We've seen him be happy in some occasions even after he got the armor, and anyway that wouldn't be a direct consequence of using the Berserk's armor itself (but you could make the case that it indirectly contributes by fostering bad situations).

Personally i have always wondered if there is any chance that Femto/Griffith has less power than expected, since two sacrifices got away. Is there any information on this?
I am just assuming that those branded need to die or be killed for apostles or "new" members of the god hand to reach their full potential? Thanks in advance! I love all the effort people put into this forum and i can not wait to be part of it!  :daiba:

Actually no, people don't need to die. This is a classic misconception. :serpico: The sacrifice is the act of receiving the Brand of Sacrifice itself, which condemns the soul to an eternity of suffering. So Femto is whole and his power is unaffected by Guts and Casca's survival. Like he told Guts during the Black Swordsman arc, he doesn't care whatever happens to him.

DarkFalconKnight

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Re: About Branded Sacrifices...
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2015, 07:30:37 AM »
Thanks for the kind welcome! And i salute you and the others for creating the most interesting encyclopedia i have ever seen.

I don't know about that. We've seen him be happy in some occasions even after he got the armor, and anyway that wouldn't be a direct consequence of using the Berserk's armor itself (but you could make the case that it indirectly contributes by fostering bad situations).

I am referring to the conversation with SK on the beach, where he said excessive use of the armor would slowly make him lose the ability to see the light, feel, taste etc.
(not sure it was a metaphor for something else, etc his inner beast taking over)

Actually no, people don't need to die. This is a classic misconception. :serpico: The sacrifice is the act of receiving the Brand of Sacrifice itself, which condemns the soul to an eternity of suffering. So Femto is whole and his power is unaffected by Guts and Casca's survival. Like he told Guts during the Black Swordsman arc, he doesn't care whatever happens to him.

Cool! Thank you for the information! However, if they somehow were able to "treat" the brands and cure the curse on Elfhelm, would that effect anything? Sorry for over speculating.  :void:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: About Branded Sacrifices...
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2015, 12:02:14 PM »
I am referring to the conversation with SK on the beach, where he said excessive use of the armor would slowly make him lose the ability to see the light, feel, taste etc.
(not sure it was a metaphor for something else, etc his inner beast taking over)

Ah, I see. No, actually it's about the five senses from what we've seen so far. Because of the way it dulls his pain, it also damages all his senses. We've seen several instances where his taste or eyesight failed him, where his hands trembled uncontrollably...

Cool! Thank you for the information! However, if they somehow were able to "treat" the brands and cure the curse on Elfhelm, would that effect anything? Sorry for over speculating.  :void:

I don't think it would somehow lessen Femto's power, because the sacrifices are more like a fee to pay to receive the power (which happens when we see Griffith's soul descend into the abyss while his body gets transformed inside the hand) and not just fuel that gets converted into power. During the Eclipse, the only "direct contribution" from the people who were killed is when their blood gets pumped into him just as he's about to be born, but that's more of a finishing touch (and is not something that happens when an apostle is born).

Now, all that aside, the Brand is a very strong curse and it might not be possible to simply dispel it in Elfhelm in the way you suggest.

DarkFalconKnight

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Re: About Branded Sacrifices...
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2015, 12:08:14 PM »
Now, all that aside, the Brand is a very strong curse and it might not be possible to simply dispel it in Elfhelm in the way you suggest.

Okey, thank you for the enlightenment once again!