Author Topic: Episode 342  (Read 32053 times)

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Offline Truder

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #50 on: November 24, 2015, 11:21:11 PM »
this is a fantastic birthday gift for me! :judo:

Miura definitely changed Guts face. im a bit glad he stopped drawing guts witch such a huge man chin. this is closer to conviction arc Guts.

Offline Theozilla

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #51 on: November 24, 2015, 11:40:02 PM »
Assuming that the translation of Korean translation of the episode's description of the way time moves slower in Elfhelm is accurate (basically a reverse-Narnia relationship). I wonder if that makes the possibility of a time-skip on a scale that allows the character's in Guts' party to age a couple to a few years more, or less, likely? Because if the former type of time-skip did occur that would presumably indicate a time-skip for the outside world on the level of several, if not decades, also occurring.

- Farnese seems to believe Guts wants to drop Casca off and take his leave. No doubt she sees that as her chance to have him for herself. Drama incoming.
Yeah, I couldn't help but get stuck on that detail. I was honestly a bit shocked to read that. Is Farnese really that deep in denial? :isidro: And I didn't think she'd just want to drop off Casca and leave herself, seeing as how they'd become rather emotionally attached.

Hmmm, those lines/panels also stuck out to me as well, though, I personally just interpreted them as more just general anxiety/ponderings on Farnese's part (that's not too generous a interpretation of that scene IMO?). Like, I don't think those lines/panels necessarily imply that Farnese is consciously thinking/plotting with that much foresight that she is actively viewing it as a future opportunity to capture Guts' affections.


Also I think people may have pointed this out last episode, but I think Miura's linework/inking is little bit bolder/thicker than it used to be?

Offline Skeleton

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #52 on: November 25, 2015, 12:01:33 AM »
- ... Speaking of the symbols, these are a bit different, they feel somewhat celtic-like to me, which is fitting for an island.

- The whole scarecrows and pumpkins thing is so cool and is just another example of Miura featuring classic folklore in the story (almost in time for Halloween, too!). Same for the reference to the Golden Goose (a classic folktale that fits the situation perfectly).

That's the first thing I noticed, the Celtic/Halloween feel. I'm absolutely in love with this island so far. The stones. The pumpkin field. The scarecrows (scarehumans?). The fact the field, to quote the great philosopher Admiral Ackbar, is a trap. It's as if Miura designed the place specifically with me in mind. I love it.

For years I'd wondered if time would move differently on the island as is often the case in Celtic/Gaelic stories of people travelling to otherworldly islands/places. The Peekaf story showed that Miura was well aware of said otherworld stories so I was really hoping that'd be the case. It's the perfect form for a time jump. The world ages, but the main characters are still in peak fighting form. :)

Also, thank you so much to Puella for translating the episode and Aaz for posting it. I sincerely appreciate what you two do for us all.

Offline Delta Phi

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #53 on: November 25, 2015, 02:41:35 AM »
Absolutely awesome! What a way to turn around a shitty day. I'm so excited we're finally on the island! Thanks Aaz and Puella for all your information/translations!

It really made me happy seeing Guts smiling so much in this episode. I bet he's starting to really feel some relief. Now, let's just hope things start to go a bit more smoother for our heroes after this scarecrow incident...

Offline Smith

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #54 on: November 25, 2015, 04:04:58 AM »
Great episode! Once again Thanks Aaz and Puella for the amazing translation! Its good to finally see Elfhelm after so long...


- While the scarecrows likely don't pose too much danger to Guts, I'm curious to see how Schierke will deal with this. Especially with her peers, who seem as young as she is (maybe even younger?). IT'S ON! DUEL OF THE WITCHES!


I was hoping the scarecrows to be as skilled as Azan/Serp and a group of them taking Guts at once, posing a real life threatening battle with Guts. Afterall this might reflect an entire level of difference in warding and magical defense as compared to Flora Mansion.


If not its just another mowing session for Guts which we have seem him doing so often now.  :ganishka:
It piss me off when I see weaklings, it make me want to crush them

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #55 on: November 25, 2015, 07:13:41 AM »
Assuming that the translation of Korean translation of the episode's description of the way time moves slower in Elfhelm is accurate (basically a reverse-Narnia relationship). I wonder if that makes the possibility of a time-skip on a scale that allows the character's in Guts' party to age a couple to a few years more, or less, likely? Because if the former type of time-skip did occur that would presumably indicate a time-skip for the outside world on the level of several, if not decades, also occurring.

It seems pretty clear from what Isma's mother says that they're not going to stay there for years. I would expect it to be weeks at most. It's also not clear exactly how it works, so it might be better not to draw too many conclusions this early on.

Hmmm, those lines/panels also stuck out to me as well, though, I personally just interpreted them as more just general anxiety/ponderings on Farnese's part (that's not too generous a interpretation of that scene IMO?). Like, I don't think those lines/panels necessarily imply that Farnese is consciously thinking/plotting with that much foresight that she is actively viewing it as a future opportunity to capture Guts' affections.

I wouldn't say plotting, but viewing it as an opportunity? I don't see why not, given the latest developments in that regard (her and Guts and Casca on the ship). She almost asks Guts about it directly, too. The only other possibility is for her to consider staying on the island as well, but even if Casca wasn't cured, it would presumably not be necessary as others could take care of her. Like Grail said, in such a scenario it'd be a case of balancing Farnese's affection for Casca and her desire to be with Guts. Either way, I don't see it happening like that.

I was hoping the scarecrows to be as skilled as Azan/Serp and a group of them taking Guts at once, posing a real life threatening battle with Guts. Afterall this might reflect an entire level of difference in warding and magical defense as compared to Flora Mansion.

I expect there to be a twist of some sort compared to what happened at Flora's mansion, but from what we've seen so far they don't look too bad. There might be more than just them in there though, or the field itself could adapt to whoever it's facing, who knows.

Offline Theozilla

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #56 on: November 25, 2015, 09:11:07 AM »
It seems pretty clear from what Isma's mother says that they're not going to stay there for years. I would expect it to be weeks at most. It's also not clear exactly how it works, so it might be better not to draw too many conclusions this early on.
Hmm, I suppose it is still early to draw any definite conclusion. Regardless though, whether it is on Skellig or not, I do hope there is a time-skip of a couple of years at least for Guts' party since it could do a lot to cultivate and grow other individuals' skill and experience (or in cured!Casca's case relearn/retrain herself and specifically allow Schierke, Isidro, and Isma grow noticeably older).

I wouldn't say plotting, but viewing it as an opportunity? I don't see why not, given the latest developments in that regard (her and Guts and Casca on the ship). She almost asks Guts about it directly, too. The only other possibility is for her to consider staying on the island as well, but even if Casca wasn't cured, it would presumably not be necessary as others could take care of her. Like Grail said, in such a scenario it'd be a case of balancing Farnese's affection for Casca and her desire to be with Guts. Either way, I don't see it happening like that.

Eh maybe...but even just viewing it as an "opportunity" IMO still seems to imply a certain degree of conscious/definite anticipation of thinking about what's to come, and I just don't think that precisely fits Farnese's current state of being. IDK..to me Farnese's current emotional state seems to suggest too much uncertainty/anxiety in regards to her feelings and what she wants to do with them (precisely because of her developments/interactions with Guts and Casca on the ship) to be even conceiving of future romantic opportunities with Guts. Like, I agree she does have feelings of envy towards Casca (which she is conscious of) but I think she is more just generally anxious/nervous about the future (in that scene), like she is more wondering (to use the first person) what will become of "us" (referring to both her relationship with Guts specifically, and Guts' to the party as a whole) after Casca is cured/finds sanctuary.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 04:49:34 PM by Theozilla »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #57 on: November 25, 2015, 09:36:58 AM »
I think she is more just generally anxious/nervous about the future (in that scene), like she is more wondering (to use the first person) what will become of "us" (referring to both her relationship with Guts specifically, and Guts' to the party as a whole) after Casca is cured/finds sanctuary.

Well that's really not very different from what I'm saying. Except she specifically thinks that Guts will leave Casca there and then depart.

Offline ryOtoha

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #58 on: November 25, 2015, 10:00:49 AM »
So we can expect to see a older and badass Rickert (married to Erika) retalively close to Silat and his people ?   :carcus:

Offline Theozilla

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #59 on: November 25, 2015, 10:08:16 AM »
Well that's really not very different from what I'm saying.

Oh, okay then. Eh, maybe I am/was just getting hung up on schematics/terminology then.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #60 on: November 25, 2015, 03:11:16 PM »
This was a powerful episode for me quite emotional, seeing everyone excited about the island, and all those glorious group shots (some relegated to tiny panels that don't do well on a monitor). We've finally arrived  :isidro:

It's kind of surreal. I keep trying to look back on how I had imagined our first glimpse of the island, and I think I imagined the initial approach to the island being more drawn out. I was a bit surprised that we didn't get some sort of two-page spread of the island (in fact, I nearly missed it in my haste!). All the same, I'm glad that Miura decided to get us off the boat sooner rather than later. :carcus:

On first blush, I also felt this episode moved along at too quick a pace, and didn't take the expected time to relish the hugeness of this arrival. Of course, as fans who have been following this series closely for more than a decade, we're somewhat tainted, having been gazing longingly at the horizon for the island for so, so long. For the arrival specifically to be rather unceremoniously portrayed in a few small panels struck me as too brief. On a second reading of this episode, it struck me less, and I can see why Miura conducted events in this way. He does address it,  but leaves room for future developments. The island isn't defined for us yet. If we had been treated to something more grand, like a birds-eye-view of the island, it would be far less mysterious.  Also, we're shown a ton of activity between the pages, each panel filled with group shots. It covers a lot of ground, and wastes no time doing so.

At the core though, I had a deeper feeling that I have some trouble explaining. It's not a negative feeling, or a critique. It's like watching a kid grow up (maybe that sentiment will only resonate with parents). Good mixed with bad. Things are really moving in Berserk. We're in the midst of huge changes for a part of the series that has been slumbering for years. We've been thinking to ourselves "Well, we'll see about that after they arrive in Elfhelm..." It's been implicitly promising some of the biggest turning points of the series, and here we are stepping foot onto it. Some of those revelations could be mere episodes away. And while I expected to be excited, I didn't expect to feel somewhat worried that things will be over so soon. Because at this pace, I can see the end of the story taking shape not too far off now.

As to one of the bigger revelations in this ep, that time occurs differently on the island, it's pretty perfect, isn't it? We had expected a "time skip" at some point, giving a chance for the younger characters to develop, and for the world to slide deeper into chaos after the merging. Miura has given a means for that, and one which keeps our main party in stasis. I only lament that at this rate, it means we probably won't be seeing a grown-up Schierke and Isidro. At the same time, it means Elfhelm can't be a permanent solution, at least for the characters we expect to see on the story's finish line. Like Flora's manor, as comfortable as Elfhelm may be, it has an expiration date. Another thing about that knowledge, it seemed to have changed Guts' demeanor. He was wearing smiles until that point, then we get a close-shot of his face, and afterward, in the group shot at the beach, his eyes are downcast. I think he knows that it means the balancing act he's been performing between Casca and Griffith can't last forever.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Proj2501

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #61 on: November 25, 2015, 04:29:11 PM »
^Your post made me more emotional than the actual episode, Walter. Jeez.

You're right, for so long, so much has hinged on what will happen in the next few episodes. It's insane to think we're finally here. So much has happened from Puck saying, "My home."

Soon -->  :casca:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #62 on: November 25, 2015, 06:35:22 PM »
I can see why Miura conducted events in this way. He does address it,  but leaves room for future developments. The island isn't defined for us yet. If we had been treated to something more grand, like a birds-eye-view of the island, it would be far less mysterious.

Indeed. From the very first shot of the island, darkened and with a convoluted terrain, it seems clear Miura's keeping an ace or two up his sleeve about the place. I'm sure we'll get that shot eventually, but when the time is right.

At the core though, I had a deeper feeling that I have some trouble explaining. It's not a negative feeling, or a critique. It's like watching a kid grow up (maybe that sentiment will only resonate with parents). Good mixed with bad. Things are really moving in Berserk. We're in the midst of huge changes for a part of the series that has been slumbering for years. We've been thinking to ourselves "Well, we'll see about that after they arrive in Elfhelm..." It's been implicitly promising some of the biggest turning points of the series, and here we are stepping foot onto it. Some of those revelations could be mere episodes away. And while I expected to be excited, I didn't expect to feel somewhat worried that things will be over so soon. Because at this pace, I can see the end of the story taking shape not too far off now.

You're just getting a taste of that sad feeling people sometimes get after finishing a good, lengthy story. But relax, we've still got a decade or two before it's time to prepare for the end.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #63 on: November 25, 2015, 07:11:42 PM »
You're just getting a taste of that sad feeling people sometimes get after finishing a good, lengthy story. But relax, we've still got a decade or two before it's time to prepare for the end.

A decade, certainly. Two? Get outta here, you!  :rickert:

What does everyone think of Puck's secret "origin" story? Even though it's for comedic purposes, it could be for real however, it omits the reason why he left the island to begin with. I still feel like there's more to his story that Miura has made conspicuous by design.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #64 on: November 25, 2015, 07:36:19 PM »
A decade, certainly. Two? Get outta here, you!  :rickert:

We shall see... :daiba: We will resume this discussion ten years from now on your birthday. See you then! :SK:

What does everyone think of Puck's secret "origin" story? Even though it's for comedic purposes, it could be for real however, it omits the reason why he left the island to begin with. I still feel like there's more to his story that Miura has made conspicuous by design.

I thought it was very appropriate for him. I loved how the artwork switched from one page to the next, showing what really happened while Puck kept telling his grand tale. And I think it's obvious there's more to come, as this didn't actually tell us much.

P.S. Berserk prologue arc is the best arc. :puck:

P.P.S.

Technically they set out for Elfhelm in 2001, leaving the continent in 2007.


Offline Vixen Comics

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #65 on: November 26, 2015, 12:19:42 AM »


Oh my look at how the number of people accompanying Guts has grown between these two pictures. And it's most likely just going to grow some more after meeting more friends in Elfhelm.

I cannot say that I am in the same boat as all the other fans who have been reading berserk for like twenty years now. I only got into Berserk two years ago and am still on my first pass with the reading. I have not had an opportunity to re-read it several times like other people have so I find it amazing what you long time fans must be feeling that Guts and company have finally arrived on Skellig's shores. Just the same though, I found my breathe being taken away when i saw that they have finally stepped foot on Skellig. The journey has taken up so much of the manga that Its almost surreal that they are where Guts has set out to find.

Seeing Guts relieved some what exhausted smiles in this issue was bitter sweet. Guts as a character does not have many instances where he gets to wear such peaceful/relieved smiles on his face...but it also makes me a tad worried as well. He is obviously anticipating Casca's return, and I do so hope the big guy gets what he wants from this trip and he these brief signs of relief can be more frequent and he can be a little happier soon.

Quote
- Time flowing differently on the island makes sense in a lot of ways. It provides an incentive for the group to not stay too long. They'll either have to stay forever or leave after a relatively short while. That also means anyone staying behind could be lost forever... Besides that, it provides the perfect opportunity for a time skip. Whether the world ages faster or they do, something is definitely looming on the horizon in that regard.

this tid bit surprised me actually. It sort of puts an urgency to their stay  on Elfhelm that if they linger to long and they can be in a predicament with Griffith, and they might have to rush. I sort of envisioned them staying on elfhelm and training and getting news skills for at least a year or two, but it seems that staying too long might not be to their benefit. Maybe forcing them to leave before a certain someone is ready to?

Quote
- Farnese seems to believe Guts wants to drop Casca off and take his leave. No doubt she sees that as her chance to have him for herself. Drama incoming.


Quote
I wouldn't say plotting, but viewing it as an opportunity? I don't see why not, given the latest developments in that regard (her and Guts and Casca on the ship). She almost asks Guts about it directly, too.

Ugh! This stood out to me as well and honestly I'm not liking the implications here at all. I don't want to see Farnese get hurt in all of this. She has come such a long way that this delusion might hurt her growth. Not to mention I don't want conflict between Casca and Farnese. They have developed a rapport and I would hate to see that unraveled by drama over Guts.
/center]

Offline Skeleton

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #66 on: November 26, 2015, 05:41:57 AM »
While I too think their stay on the island won't be too long, I'm hoping they leave sooner rather than later in a more natural way than because they're constantly aware of the time. Otherwise it will end up being like a scene out of Interstellar:

Schierke: "It will take us thirty minutes to walk back to the ship, Guts."

Guts: "Damn it! That's twenty-four years we can't afford!"

As far as the time jump, if it happens I hope it's in the five to ten year range. I want enough time to pass for Rickert and Erika to grow into adults (preferably with Rickert looking like a younger Godot) and for the God Hand to wreck/change the various lands but not so much time that the older characters like Daiba have kicked the bucket when Guts and crew returns (hang in there, gramps! :daiba:).

Offline Theozilla

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #67 on: November 26, 2015, 06:28:22 AM »
Ugh! This stood out to me as well and honestly I'm not liking the implications here at all. I don't want to see Farnese get hurt in all of this. She has come such a long way that this delusion might hurt her growth. Not to mention I don't want conflict between Casca and Farnese. They have developed a rapport and I would hate to see that unraveled by drama over Guts.

I actually don't think Farnese is deluding herself in the sense that she has a chance to form a romantic relationship with Guts. I think, like Schierke, Farnese is actually quite aware of the nigh impossibility of the notion. But unlike Schierke, Farnese still hasn't completely processed/fully come to peace with her various of feelings/emotions on the subject.

Offline Delta Phi

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #68 on: November 26, 2015, 03:58:35 PM »
P.S. Berserk prologue arc is the best arc. :puck:

Speaking of which, has Puck broken the 4th wall in reference to the actually series itself before? I know he's referenced other properties before, but I can't recall a time he's mentioned the story he himself is in.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #69 on: November 26, 2015, 04:20:11 PM »
Speaking of which, has Puck broken the 4th wall in reference to the actually series itself before? I know he's referenced other properties before, but I can't recall a time he's mentioned the story he himself is in.

Early on,  Puck jokes that the story would too dark without him.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #70 on: November 26, 2015, 06:46:00 PM »
this tid bit surprised me actually. It sort of puts an urgency to their stay  on Elfhelm that if they linger to long and they can be in a predicament with Griffith, and they might have to rush. I sort of envisioned them staying on elfhelm and training and getting news skills for at least a year or two, but it seems that staying too long might not be to their benefit. Maybe forcing them to leave before a certain someone is ready to?

Well of course, it's primarily a way to force the issue of them staying there for a while, and also to make it more dramatic. Now Guts can't just put his revenge back a few years, like he's already done. If he stays, he stays for good. That also means that whoever stays behind when the others leave is essentially lost. No easy way out of that one. Finally, it might make it so that staying there would hasten a profound change of the outside world from their point of view. Maybe the King of the Flower Storm will be able to show them what the world will look like a few decades in the future if they stay there while the God Hand further unfurls its plans.

Ugh! This stood out to me as well and honestly I'm not liking the implications here at all. I don't want to see Farnese get hurt in all of this. She has come such a long way that this delusion might hurt her growth. Not to mention I don't want conflict between Casca and Farnese. They have developed a rapport and I would hate to see that unraveled by drama over Guts.

Well this is also part of her growing process. She's come so far, but she's still infatuated with the man who saved her from herself (by setting an example she could aspire to). Now she has to be able to go beyond that, to truly stand on her own and to become her own woman. It's the next natural step in her journey to become someone the others depend on rather than someone who depends on others. And I think Casca will be able to help her in that regard eventually, by being a friend but also by providing a very different female perspective compared to what she's seen so far. You mention their relationship, but they probably will have to rebuild one progressively if Casca's mind is restored.

Anyway, while I expect there to be some drama when she will face the truth, I'm convinced she'll come out of it a better and stronger person.

While I too think their stay on the island won't be too long, I'm hoping they leave sooner rather than later in a more natural way than because they're constantly aware of the time. Otherwise it will end up being like a scene out of Interstellar:

Schierke: "It will take us thirty minutes to walk back to the ship, Guts."
Guts: "Damn it! That's twenty-four years we can't afford!"

Yeah that's not happening.

As far as the time jump, if it happens I hope it's in the five to ten year range. I want enough time to pass for Rickert and Erika to grow into adults (preferably with Rickert looking like a younger Godot) and for the God Hand to wreck/change the various lands but not so much time that the older characters like Daiba have kicked the bucket when Guts and crew returns (hang in there, gramps! :daiba:).

My first guess (based on absolutely nothing) was between 3 and 7 years. My thinking was the same: the changes have to be significant but not so much that it becomes too distant. Still, there are many things I'm already looking forward to. Luka and her pals' new lives as established aristocrats, Falconia's Industrial War Machine at its height, Rickert & Erika and the Bakiraka's situation...

I actually don't think Farnese is deluding herself in the sense that she has a chance to form a romantic relationship with Guts. I think, like Schierke, Farnese is actually quite aware of the nigh impossibility of the notion. But unlike Schierke, Farnese still hasn't completely processed/fully come to peace with her various of feelings/emotions on the subject.

That's a pretty odd statement. Schierke is still a little girl, and she came to terms with her feelings by taking comfort in the fact she has a very special and unique relationship with Guts anyway. But like you say, Farnese (a grown woman) hasn't come to this realization and, on the contrary, has repeatedly exhibited behavior that makes her feelings for Guts quite clear to the reader. That includes the very last episode in which the group appeared (episode 331), where she (among other things) embarrassed herself by thinking outloud on that very subject.

Not to mention that in this very episode, barring a mistranslation, Farnese was shown thinking to herself that Guts would leave Casca on the island and go away without her. That doesn't sound to me like she expects them to resume a romantic relationship. In which case, why couldn't she have a chance?

Offline Theozilla

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #71 on: November 26, 2015, 07:07:13 PM »
That's a pretty odd statement. Schierke is still a little girl, and she came to terms with her feelings by taking comfort in the fact she has a very special and unique relationship with Guts anyway. But like you say, Farnese hasn't come to this realization and, on the contrary, has repeatedly exhibited behavior that makes her feelings for Guts quite clear to the reader. That includes the very last episode in which the group appeared (episode 331), where she (among other things) embarrassed herself by thinking outloud on that very subject.

I don't see how it is that odd. I'm not claiming the way Schierke processed wasn't unique to her situation or anything like that. And I agree Farnese's feelings for Guts are still quite clear as you have stated, I am just saying that I do think Farnese intellectually recognizes the extreme improbability of her romantic feelings being reciprocated by Guts (which is why wouldn't describe her as deluding herself), but like I said she emotionally hasn't fully accepted/processed her feelings on that fact/notion.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #72 on: November 26, 2015, 07:19:21 PM »
I don't see how it is that odd. I'm not claiming the way Schierke processed wasn't unique to her situation or anything like that. And I agree Farnese's feelings for Guts are still quite clear as you have stated, I am just saying that I do think Farnese intellectually recognizes the extreme improbability of her romantic feelings being reciprocated by Guts (which is why wouldn't describe her as deluding herself), but like I said she emotionally hasn't fully accepted/processed her feelings on that fact/notion.

It's odd because you're trying to dismiss her feelings as secondary to her rational mind in a strange attempt to understate the situation. But that's not how feelings work, and nothing in the manga supports what you say anyway.

Offline Theozilla

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #73 on: November 26, 2015, 07:37:45 PM »
It's odd because you're trying to dismiss her feelings as secondary to her rational mind in a strange attempt to understate the situation. But that's not how feelings work, and nothing in the manga supports what you say anyway.

Well, I am not trying to dismiss her feelings as secondary and/or understate the situation. I am just arguing that her feelings don't completely negate her rational mind's workings/awareness either (which I do think the manga supports, since if she didn't intellectually recognize the unlikelihood of her feelings being reciprocated on some level she wouldn't necessarily being going through as much emotional turmoil as she is currently going through now).

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #74 on: November 26, 2015, 07:58:15 PM »
Well, I am not trying to dismiss her feelings as secondary and/or understate the situation. I am just arguing that her feelings don't completely negate her rational mind's workings/awareness either (which I do think the manga supports, since if she didn't intellectually recognize the unlikelihood of her feelings being reciprocated on some level she wouldn't necessarily being going through as much emotional turmoil as she is currently going through now).

What we see in the manga is that Farnese has romantic feelings for Guts and has not yet come to terms with the fact those will never be reciprocated. When you say you disagree and that instead, she has "recognized but not accepted" the situation, you're basically saying the same thing but in a backhanded, roundabout manner. Frankly, this has got to be one of the most pointless discussions I can remember having on this forum.