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Offline TripleJMaster3

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #100 on: December 01, 2015, 01:36:41 AM »
Correct me if I am wrong but wasnt this time lapse also part of Flora's sanctuary. I vaguely remember some reference to the magical elements surrounding the area allowing Flora and the tree to age slower but not sure if it holds any significance to the current situation. If it does would this mean that Schierke would have been older had she not lived with Flora?

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #101 on: December 01, 2015, 02:47:52 AM »
Correct me if I am wrong but wasnt this time lapse also part of Flora's sanctuary. I vaguely remember some reference to the magical elements surrounding the area allowing Flora and the tree to age slower but not sure if it holds any significance to the current situation. If it does would this mean that Schierke would have been older had she not lived with Flora?

We actually talked about this on the podcast yesterday. I don't think it's the same thing, personally. I believe the parallels between Flora and the tree outliving its natural life are symbolic. Flora's domain was within the astral world, which afforded the tree a longer life. Meanwhile, when Flora talks about her extended age, it's with a bit of guilt, as if it's not merely from residing in the astral world, but that she had a hand in lengthening it:

Quote from: Dark Horse translation of Vol 26
Flora: "You should know how sinful it is to live beyond the extent of your allowed time."

Afterall, if it's the same phenomenon as on Skellig, then why would it be regarded as "sinful," and not the status quo? Furthermore, no time warping phenomena was discussed or even hinted at during that section of the story, or in their travels through the Qliphoth, in which they rescued women who had recently been kidnapped by trolls.

From what we've been told, it seems like the time thing is a special property of Skellig, but perhaps that property relates to the island's depth in the astral world (Flora and Qliphoth could have been in a shallow portion of it).

On a side note, it makes some sense to me that she lengthened her life not only to watch over the Berserk Armor, but also because she (somehow) encountered Schierke, and wanted to raise her. I wonder if we'll ever get some more backstory about Schierke's childhood... and how she and Flora came to be together.

One last thing... the spiral design on the  barrier stones got me thinking that it looked familiar. Of course! We've seen a version of it before. It's what was marked on the tree outside Flora's manor, which Guts and Casca were able to bypass because of their existence in the Interstice. We only get a small glimpse of it in Vol 24, but it's a more intricate spiral pattern, similar but more carefully crafted than the ones we see on Skellig.



« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 02:58:57 PM by Walter »
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Offline Theozilla

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #102 on: December 01, 2015, 05:43:51 AM »
We actually talked about this on the podcast yesterday. I don't think it's the same thing, personally. I believe the parallels between Flora and the tree outliving its natural life are symbolic. Flora's domain was within the astral world, which afforded the tree a longer life. Meanwhile, when Flora talks about her extended age, it's with a bit of guilt, as if it's not merely from residing in the astral world, but that she had a hand in lengthening it:

Afterall, if it's the same phenomenon as on Skellig, then why would it be regarded as "sinful," and not the status quo? Furthermore, no time warping phenomena was discussed or even hinted at during that section of the story.

On a side note, it makes some sense to me that she lengthened her life not only to watch over the Berserk Armor, but also because she (somehow) encountered Schierke, and wanted to raise her. I wonder if we'll ever get some more backstory about Schierke's childhood... and how she and Flora came to be together.

That's an interesting theory, that Flora actually actively extended her life through some sort of magical means. I had always assumed that Flora just had a (un)naturally long lifespan simply due to her nature of being a witch in of itself. And that her line, "You, as a sorceress, should know how sinful it is to live beyond the extent of your allowed time." from episode 224 was simply her consoling Schierke over her inevitable demise by fire (because she was going to die soon regardless). But the idea that her line is hinting at a guilt for actively lengthening her life is an interesting one to consider.

As for the tree's continued extended longevity, like you said that was due to the astral world. It's explained in Episode 203 that the tree's continued existence is (and I quote from the Dark Horse translation):
Quote from: Dark Horse translation of Volume 24
In the physical world this tree rotten about two hundred years ago...but while it lived it was the focus of worship for all arboreal animists in this region. The stronger the power of existence is in the physical world...the longer and more splendid its shape will be fixed in the astral world. Occasionally it takes on a monstrous form, though.
Which, as you said, is different from the timewarp difference described for Skellig.

One last thing... the spiral design on the  barrier stones got me thinking that it looked familiar. Of course! We've seen a version of it before. It's what was marked on the tree outside Flora's manor, which Guts and Casca were able to bypass because of their existence in the Interstice. We only get a small glimpse of it in Vol 24, but it's a more intricate spiral pattern, similar but more carefully crafted than the ones we see on Skellig.





The other thing the spirals remind me of, which I wonder if it is just a coincidence of words and imagery, is Flora's conversation with Skull Knight in Episode 222 on causality/karma where she says:
Quote from: Dark Horse translation of Volume 26
People may appear to repeat the same mistakes...but karma is by no means a circle. Indeed, it is a spiral.
Perhaps spirals are symbolic of witches' (and wizards) philosophy towards causality and that expresses itself in some of their magic?

Offline TripleJMaster3

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #103 on: December 01, 2015, 03:30:20 PM »
Thank you for the explanation, Walter. It has been a while since I read that episode so I was a little unclear on the specifics.
Since it seems apparent that we are headed towards some sort of time lapse for the outside world one thing that has me curious among others is how the relationship between Griffith and the princess will develop as it seems to have been at a standstill. Is it possible that at some point she will learn the truth about her hero?   :griffnotevil:

Offline Jaze1618

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #104 on: December 01, 2015, 11:45:53 PM »
That's an interesting theory, that Flora actually actively extended her life through some sort of magical means. I had always assumed that Flora just had a (un)naturally long lifespan simply due to her nature of being a witch in of itself.

If you recall old man Morgan's story from that same volume, he said that Flora hadn't aged at all since he had last encountered her when he was a little boy.

What's interesting to me now is if your original interpretation of Flora's dialogue about living too long, was the correct one, and that there was indeed some other form of time flow deviation happening at the sanctuary, to explain Morgan's observation. But I am fairly confident a moderator will be along soon to debunk this whole thing, bless them.

Offline Theozilla

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #105 on: December 02, 2015, 04:36:43 AM »
If you recall old man Morgan's story from that same volume, he said that Flora hadn't aged at all since he had last encountered her when he was a little boy.
That line really doesn't disprove the interpretation that Flora is merely naturally slow-aged (like if a person who is in the physical equivalent to their late 70s only ages the equivalent of a couple years over the course of 50 years that's going to seem like to people who age normally that that person hasn't aged all in a figurative sense).

What's interesting to me now is if your original interpretation of Flora's dialogue about living too long, was the correct one, and that there was indeed some other form of time flow deviation happening at the sanctuary, to explain Morgan's observation. But I am fairly confident a moderator will be along soon to debunk this whole thing, bless them.
My original interpretation (that witches are just naturally long-lived) doesn't require a time warp to exist in Flora's domain either (which we already know doesn't, since the explanation about the the power of existence in the physical world affecting the longevity of things in the astral world was already given and the observable evidence that a bunch of time did not pass in Enoch in village after Guts and co. stayed the night with Flora).

Offline Vixen Comics

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #106 on: December 03, 2015, 06:12:27 PM »
I am most concerned with how much time will pass between getting to the deeper into elfhelm and how much time will pass, and how will that affect Roderick being able to get back to his crew. I guess Roderick has to make a choice whether to be on his way or stick around for only a bit to see everyone settled or stay with the group permanently. Or if when he enters elfhelm with the others he is only there for a few hours and he goes back to the shore to find it's been months and his crew figured he was dead and left without him, taking the decision out of his hands.  :isidro:

Also, about Farnese's comment about possibly dropping off Casca and then leaving the island, I thought that everyone (including Farnese) was aware that Guts was hoping to get the elf king to help Casca's condition? That the objective had shifted slightly from just finding a safe haven for Casca and that the possibility of her mind being healed was on the table. That is why, in addition to it being troubling that she wants her chance at Guts that she was in addition unaware of the healing angle of the trip. Maybe I am remembering wrong but I thought Guts had this discussion with more than just Schierke present...
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Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #107 on: December 03, 2015, 06:49:12 PM »
how much time will pass, and how will that affect Roderick being able to get back to his crew.

Roderick asks Isma's mother this question in particular, and as she explained, time flows differently on AND around the island. So, they're affected in the same way. However, that doesn't mean it's smooth sailing for Roderick. He didn't sign up for this being a 5-10 year journey. This was a side trip for him on the way back to Ys. Unless he's changed his mind about that, he'll have to make a decision soon.

Quote
Maybe I am remembering wrong but I thought Guts had this discussion with more than just Schierke present...

No you're right. As Aaz reminded us on the podcast, Schierke shares this news with everyone in Vol 28, after they find the boy on the beach. So Farnese knows.
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Offline Theozilla

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #108 on: December 03, 2015, 07:30:03 PM »
Roderick asks Isma's mother this question in particular, and as she explained, time flows differently on AND around the island. So, they're affected in the same way. However, that doesn't mean it's smooth sailing for Roderick. He didn't sign up for this being a 5-10 year journey. This was a side trip for him on the way back to Ys. Unless he's changed his mind about that, he'll have to make a decision soon.

Yeah, this is one of the cases where finding out what the specific time difference ratio between the island and the outside world is, will be a pretty significant factor in influencing character's future decisions.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #109 on: December 03, 2015, 07:55:21 PM »
Correct me if I am wrong but wasnt this time lapse also part of Flora's sanctuary.

No, time flowed the same in Flora's domain as far as we know.

I believe the parallels between Flora and the tree outliving its natural life are symbolic. Flora's domain was within the astral world, which afforded the tree a longer life. Meanwhile, when Flora talks about her extended age, it's with a bit of guilt, as if it's not merely from residing in the astral world, but that she had a hand in lengthening it

I don't think it's wise to dissociate her extended lifespan from the fact her domain resided in the astral world. It seems pretty clear to me that was key in allowing that extension of life to begin with, which also explains why she didn't leave it anymore. Now, as for her having consciously worked to lengthen her life, that does seem a logical assumption.

On a side note, it makes some sense to me that she lengthened her life not only to watch over the Berserk Armor, but also because she (somehow) encountered Schierke, and wanted to raise her. I wonder if we'll ever get some more backstory about Schierke's childhood... and how she and Flora came to be together.

Uhhh, I doubt the extent to which she lengthened her life is comparable to Schierke's young age. If Flora is someone who knew the Skull Knight when he was still human, we should expect her to be centuries old, if not even a millennia. And I also don't think she did that merely to watch over the Berserk's armor.

One last thing... the spiral design on the  barrier stones got me thinking that it looked familiar. Of course! We've seen a version of it before. It's what was marked on the tree outside Flora's manor, which Guts and Casca were able to bypass because of their existence in the Interstice. We only get a small glimpse of it in Vol 24, but it's a more intricate spiral pattern, similar but more carefully crafted than the ones we see on Skellig.

I pointed that out on page 2 of this thread.

Since it seems apparent that we are headed towards some sort of time lapse for the outside world one thing that has me curious among others is how the relationship between Griffith and the princess will develop as it seems to have been at a standstill. Is it possible that at some point she will learn the truth about her hero?

I think she will eventually, at least to some extent. Relating to a time lapse specifically, I could picture her thinking to herself about how distant Griffith is despite the fact they're married. For example, that he's nice to her but won't share her bed... That kind of thing. There are many possibilities, and it'll be interesting to see how that evolves.

My original interpretation (that witches are just naturally long-lived) doesn't require a time warp to exist in Flora's domain either

Your original interpretation goes against Flora's dialogue with Schierke, as Walter pointed out.

Also, about Farnese's comment about possibly dropping off Casca and then leaving the island, I thought that everyone (including Farnese) was aware that Guts was hoping to get the elf king to help Casca's condition? That the objective had shifted slightly from just finding a safe haven for Casca and that the possibility of her mind being healed was on the table. That is why, in addition to it being troubling that she wants her chance at Guts that she was in addition unaware of the healing angle of the trip.

Yes, it was mentioned to the group after the meeting with the Skull Knight that Casca might be cured in Elfhelm. But that doesn't mean Guts will necessarily stay there with her. In the episode, there is a clear focus put on Guts' face when he hears that staying on the island for too long means severance from the outside world. And we're shown that Farnese notices his look when he hears that. Her thought is a direct consequence of that (by the way, keep in mind that Farnese's sentence is open-ended). She doesn't know the whole truth about him, but I think she understands that he has unfinished business in the outside world.

However, that doesn't mean it's smooth sailing for Roderick. He didn't sign up for this being a 5-10 year journey. This was a side trip for him on the way back to Ys. Unless he's changed his mind about that, he'll have to make a decision soon.

Hmm, I think it's not so simple anymore. Who's to say there's anything left for him to find in Ys? It must be overrun with astral creatures by now, same as the rest of the world.

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #110 on: December 04, 2015, 02:50:10 AM »
The electronic version is available on http://www.hakusensha-e.net/ and it looks fantastic. :guts:

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #111 on: December 04, 2015, 02:55:10 AM »
The electronic version is available on http://www.hakusensha-e.net/ and it looks fantastic. :guts:

Yep! Looking at it now. Trying to parse Miura's comment, which is about STAR WARS. Something about him seeing it for the first time when he was 12...? That lines up, at least.



As you can see, the resolution isn't great on those comments pages...  :judo:

That being said, I get to look at clean as fuck scans like this for $3:



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Offline IncantatioN

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #112 on: December 04, 2015, 04:25:45 AM »
Yep! Looking at it now. Trying to parse Miura's comment, which is about STAR WARS. Something about him seeing it for the first time when he was 12...? That lines up, at least.



As you can see, the resolution isn't great on those comments pages...  :judo:

Hope this helps

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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #113 on: December 04, 2015, 01:00:37 PM »
Yep! Looking at it now. Trying to parse Miura's comment, which is about STAR WARS.

Miura's comment is: I was interviewed about Star Wars. It will be published on the website "Everybody's Star Wars" in mid-December.

Something about him seeing it for the first time when he was 12...? That lines up, at least.

Uh huh. Better luck next time.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #114 on: December 04, 2015, 02:40:42 PM »
Miura's comment is: I was interviewed about Star Wars. It will be published on the website "Everybody's Star Wars" in mid-December.

Very cool! Can't wait to read what he has to say, though I can already kind of guess.

Quote
Uh huh. Better luck next time.

 :farnese:
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Offline RaffoBaffo

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #115 on: December 04, 2015, 07:54:59 PM »
Yep! Looking at it now. Trying to parse Miura's comment, which is about STAR WARS. Something about him seeing it for the first time when he was 12...? That lines up, at least.



As you can see, the resolution isn't great on those comments pages...  :judo:

That being said, I get to look at clean as fuck scans like this for $3:





Well, that's much better than the scan.

So much that I decided to start buying the Digital Edition of YA, and so I bought the last 6 Issue.

So now I have 4 different Edition of Berserk XD

A pity that Book in the Store doesn't work for me, but whatever .
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Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #116 on: December 04, 2015, 08:03:57 PM »
Well, that's much better than the scan.

So much that I decided to start buying the Digital Edition of YA, and so I bought the last 6 Issue.

So now I have 4 different Edition of Berserk XD

Nice! Welcome to the cool club  :guts:

Quote
A pity that Book in the Store doesn't work for me, but whatever .

Yeah it doesn't seem to work on some platforms, including Win10. But you aren't missing much. It's inferior to the web browser.
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Offline IncantatioN

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #117 on: December 04, 2015, 08:04:48 PM »
Yeah, when I saw that image Walter posted I thought it was on a different level of clarity than what we see printed in a YA issue. So, like you Raffo, I'm going to pick up digital versions as well.
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Offline Maginus

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #118 on: December 06, 2015, 03:33:59 PM »
Hello everyone, I am new to the forum and I'm glad they approved my application. Already I apologize for my lack of knowledge of English. :ganishka:

What to say about this magnificent episode? Wow! Anyway, Guts and company reached the Elven Island! A magical and mysterious place where time does not flow, but it is steady. Perfect!!!

Sea-view looks like a normal island, like the others. I confess I expected a view breathtaking. Well, it does not matter. The important thing is that they have arrived! Alive!

A very interesting thing Schierke noted, the Elven Island is exposed, visible and accessible to humans and now is also part of the real world. And all this is Griffith's fault, because when actually come to the physical world, broke the barriers that separated the astral world the real world, broke the magical seals and merged the worlds. Any human can contribute now on the magical island and violate the sacred and magical home of elves and fairies. This explains the magical protections, like magic seals embedded in the rocks and giant scarecrows to ward off the curious.

Something caught my attention: there are three witches hidden in the woods! These three witches appear to have the same age as Schierke and look like they are there to watch over and take care to keep the curious away. I suspect they are just apprentices of magic, and Schierke was the Witch Tree, and there are entrusted with the simple task to frighten and repel humans. However, they do not know that it is not simple people, but of a very powerful group, including two estigmados and a very powerful witch, and great controllers of the elementals. For this King-elf and his defenses were not expecting!

Apparently, Puck was taking a nap on top of a seagull and ended up leaving the island by accident. kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk. This Puck's cute and I love it. Without it the story would not be fun. kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

Farnese still jealous of Guts and Casca and is afraid that Casca be cured of his insanity. This Farnese will still give problems and may in the future be a villain. It's just a suspicion and I really hope that does not comply.

I think the next episode will be many conflicts, confrontations and struggles of weapons and magic. Guts and Schierke want to see in action again.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #119 on: December 06, 2015, 06:36:29 PM »
Hello everyone, I am new to the forum and I'm glad they approved my application. Already I apologize for my lack of knowledge of English.

Hello Maginus, and welcome to our community. If I may issue you a recommendation, I think you will benefit in the future from reading or at least skimming what others have said in a thread before posting your own thoughts. It helps answer questions as well as keep the discussion productive and less redundant.

What to say about this magnificent episode? Wow! Anyway, Guts and company reached the Elven Island! A magical and mysterious place where time does not flow, but it is steady.

Time does flow on Skellig (the island's name), just differently than from the outside world.

Sea-view looks like a normal island, like the others. I confess I expected a view breathtaking. Well, it does not matter. The important thing is that they have arrived! Alive!

Like it was mentioned earlier in the thread, I think it's clear Miura presented things that way so that the place would retain its mystery for the time being.

A very interesting thing Schierke noted, the Elven Island is exposed, visible and accessible to humans and now is also part of the real world. And all this is Griffith's fault, because when actually come to the physical world, broke the barriers that separated the astral world the real world, broke the magical seals and merged the worlds. Any human can contribute now on the magical island and violate the sacred and magical home of elves and fairies. This explains the magical protections, like magic seals embedded in the rocks and giant scarecrows to ward off the curious.

Well we'd already speculated back when the merging occurred that this might happen. Mind you, there were no "magical seals" that kept the astral world and the corporeal world separate. They merged when Ganishka was split open and caused the wave of light to cover the world. Also, while the stones were recently erected to ward off the curious, from what Puck says the strange magical field was already there when he left.

Something caught my attention: there are three witches hidden in the woods! These three witches appear to have the same age as Schierke and look like they are there to watch over and take care to keep the curious away. I suspect they are just apprentices of magic, and Schierke was the Witch Tree, and there are entrusted with the simple task to frighten and repel humans. However, they do not know that it is not simple people, but of a very powerful group, including two estigmados and a very powerful witch, and great controllers of the elementals. For this King-elf and his defenses were not expecting!

We don't know their age. They could even be younger than Schierke. It's also yet to be seen whether they have any assigned role or just happened to be there at the right time. So far the defenses have worked on their own.

Farnese still jealous of Guts and Casca and is afraid that Casca be cured of his insanity. This Farnese will still give problems and may in the future be a villain. It's just a suspicion and I really hope that does not comply.

No, I don't think that's a correct interpretation of what we're shown in this episode. Farnese believes that Guts will leave Casca on the island and then depart, so she doesn't even consider the possibility she will be cured. As for her becoming a "villain", that's groundless and basically impossible at this point. Will there be some drama caused by her feelings for Guts? Sure, if only for her own internal character development. But you're going way too far here.

Offline Theozilla

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #120 on: December 06, 2015, 09:00:57 PM »
No, I don't think that's a correct interpretation of what we're shown in this episode. Farnese believes that Guts will leave Casca on the island and then depart, so she doesn't even consider the possibility she will be cured. As for her becoming a "villain", that's groundless and basically impossible at this point. Will there be some drama caused by her feelings for Guts? Sure, if only for her own internal character development. But you're going way too far here.

Point of clarification, when you say Farnese "doesn't even consider the possibility [Casca] will be cured", you don't mean to imply that Farnese is unaware that the current objective is to cure Casca, do you? Because as you stated in the most recent podcast, everyone in the core party was made aware of the possibility/new objective in Episode 238.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #121 on: December 06, 2015, 09:52:47 PM »
Point of clarification, when you say Farnese "doesn't even consider the possibility [Casca] will be cured", you don't mean to imply that Farnese is unaware that the current objective is to cure Casca, do you? Because as you stated in the most recent podcast, everyone in the core party was made aware of the possibility/new objective in Episode 238.

Since you're aware I know about this, why even bother asking me about it? Don't you have anything better to do? Like the sentence says, in this episode, Farnese reflects on what she expects Guts to do without considering the possibility Casca might be cured. It's not a very hard thing to understand.

Offline Theozilla

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #122 on: December 06, 2015, 10:29:34 PM »
Since you're aware I know about this, why even bother asking me about it? Don't you have anything better to do? Like the sentence says, in this episode, Farnese reflects on what she expects Guts to do without considering the possibility Casca might be cured. It's not a very hard thing to understand.
Jeez man, I'm sorry that I asked. I was just confused by the phrasing of the comment and I wasn't sure if the information had temporarily slipped your mind (like it had for Walter and Griffith prior to the podcast) so I figured I should asked for clarification. I didn't mean it as any sort of slight against you.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #123 on: December 06, 2015, 10:47:22 PM »
Jeez man, I'm sorry that I asked. I was just confused by the phrasing of the comment and I wasn't sure if the information had temporarily slipped your mind (like it had for Walter and Griffith prior to the podcast) so I figured I should asked for clarification. I didn't mean it as any sort of sleight against you.

No offense but this seems to be an excessively common occurrence for you, going by your posting history. I don't feel slighted in the least, but it's kind of tiring.

Offline Theozilla

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #124 on: December 06, 2015, 11:04:41 PM »
No offense but this seems to be an excessively common occurrence for you, going by your posting history. I don't feel slighted in the least, but it's kind of tiring.
Yes, and I am sorry about that. My social/comprehension discussion skills (I have been told I can be overly literal) have been something that I have always struggled with my entire life (largely due to a neurodevelopmental psychiatric disorder that I have). I don't mean to be pedantic/redundant in my conversations that is not my intention, I only wish to generate discussion on the series.