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Offline Walter

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Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 70
« on: November 30, 2015, 02:17:35 AM »

Episode 70: Landing (Ep 342) (1h 24m)

At long last, we've reached the island of Skellig the doorstep of Elfhelm! Hear our impressions on this momentous occasion for Berserk, along with thoughts on what's around the corner for the series now that Miura has turned the page on the future.

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Subscribe to the podcast on iTunes or by plugging this address
into your favorite podcast app: http://skullknight.net/podcast/rss.xml

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Offline asic

Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 70
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2015, 12:02:21 PM »
Awesome guys thanks for another Skullkast, listening to it now while working. Always makes my day.

Offline Patrick

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 70
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2015, 01:39:42 PM »
Thank you!

Today hasn't been the best for me, and I got a lot of work to do.

This should make the time go a lot faster.

Offline Lawliet

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 70
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2015, 03:13:24 PM »
Thanks for this. Didn't realize an hour and a half passed by the time it concluded.  :ubik:
"There are no pacts between men and lions. Wolves and lambs cannot enjoy a meeting of the minds." ~ Achilles, the Iliad of Homer

Offline Walter

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 70
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2015, 03:24:12 PM »
Thanks for this. Didn't realize an hour and a half passed by the time it concluded.  :ubik:

My soothing voice lulled you into a trance.  :casca:
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Offline Lawliet

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 70
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2015, 03:51:59 PM »
My soothing voice lulled you into a trance.  :casca:

That, and Aazealh's beautiful accent = hypnosis.  :ganishka:

Gonna watch more of these podcasts, good job guys   :ubik:
"There are no pacts between men and lions. Wolves and lambs cannot enjoy a meeting of the minds." ~ Achilles, the Iliad of Homer

Offline Walter

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 70
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2015, 03:57:29 PM »
I tried something new for the intro and outro music this time: I made them into backing music for the opening 4 minutes and the closing 2 minutes, so it plays at low volume underneath what we're saying. Both are tracks from the Dreamcast game's soundtrack, though they aren't by Hirasawa Susumu.

What did everyone think of this? Liked it / Didn't like it / Didn't notice?
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Offline Bender

Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 70
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2015, 04:11:28 PM »
I like the thought about Puck only having been gone for a few hours and picking up on the island right where he left off.  :ganishka:

It's always good to hear Berserk talk.  Thanks again.

What did everyone think of this? Liked it / Didn't like it / Didn't notice?

It worked.

Offline Delta Phi

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 70
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2015, 08:11:08 PM »
What did everyone think of this? Liked it / Didn't like it / Didn't notice?

Noticed immediately and was really curious what music you were using. Having not played the Dreamcast game, I can't say that I'm particularly attached to it, but it's nice to get some Berserk variety!

Offline Walter

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 70
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2015, 08:42:28 PM »
Having not played the Dreamcast game, I can't say that I'm particularly attached to it, but it's nice to get some Berserk variety!
It's this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om684oOauT0

There are something like 20 background tracks in the game that weren't done by Susumu. Most are crap, but I think this is one of the better ones, played during a cool scene (Duneth explains the weight of ancestry, versus Rita, who has no ancestral ties and is "free").

But the song itself is incidental. I was asking what you thought of having backing music for our intro. Ideally, this is going to change each episode with something new. I just chose this one because I like it.
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Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 70
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2015, 10:36:42 PM »
I didn't mind the change. I think it's a good idea. Will you be using the classic song of the podcast again? That one was nice too.

Anyways great podcast again, kept my mind sharp and open for the next episode!

Offline Theozilla

Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 70
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2015, 12:22:04 AM »
Great podcast and lots of interesting discussions. The intro/outro sounded great.

Seconding others previous comments on the idea that for the inhabitants on the island Puck hasn't been gone very long, which is a very funny idea indeed (though as seen in the Episode Puck seems to find that notion pretty aggravating). Though it would also have implications that the time flow ratio between Skellig and the outside world being pretty huge. I do wonder what the actual ratio will end up being (presumably we'll find out down the line) is on the scale of 1 year on Skellig equals 3-4 years outside, or perhaps 1 month for 1 year, or could it really be as huge as like 1 week for Skellig equals 1 year for the outside world?

I particularly liked your guys idea that Farnese's future role could be that of a bridge between Guts and a restored Casca, especially if Casca retains her memories of her time in her non-lucid state (which I hope she does, as it would be a shame if Casca had absolutely no idea who Farnese and the rest of the group were if/when she is cured).
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 07:20:23 AM by Theozilla »

Offline Walter

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 70
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2015, 01:16:57 AM »
Will you be using the classic song of the podcast again? That one was nice too.

I actually just updated it with that song. Kept the backing track. Yeah, I think that's how I'll do things moving forward. Consistency is nice.

I particularly liked your guys idea that Farnese's future role could be that of a bridge between Guts and a restored Casca

I think it's actually Aazealh's idea, which I've co-opted and keep bringing up as if it's my own. Something I'm guilty of doing a lot!  :farnese:

Quote
as it would be a shame if Casca had absolutely no idea who Farnese and the rest of the group were if/when she is cured).

Yeah, I think that'd be unfortunate for both characters. However even in that scenario, those experiences would still have meaning for Farnese, and it would layer her relationship with Casca.
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Offline Tama

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 70
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2015, 08:27:04 PM »
Thank you for the podcast, it was wonderful. Walter I enjoyed the background music with the Berserk video game melodies and thought it was very fitting. It gives the talk something a little extra and I think it's a perfect length. Are you, Aazealh and Griffith thinking about doing a short video game segment in the future? I also enjoyed those and like to hear all of your opinions, I know it's off topic of Berserk but I always found it interesting.

I know you mentioned this in a much earlier podcast Aazealh (I think it was around the episode 330 mark) but do you still believe the king of the flower storm might be connected to a large tree or plant in the village, something similar to Chich?

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 70
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2015, 10:18:49 PM »
Though it would also have implications that the time flow ratio between Skellig and the outside world being pretty huge. I do wonder what the actual ratio will end up being (presumably we'll find out down the line) is on the scale of 1 year on Skellig equals 3-4 years outside, or perhaps 1 month for 1 year, or could it really be as huge as like 1 week for Skellig equals 1 year for the outside world?

Nothing says it will be fixed for now. Could be a "flowing" kind of thing, with different phases, different parts of the island having different effects, etc. But from what's been hinted, it has the potential to really be very strong.

it would be a shame if Casca had absolutely no idea who Farnese and the rest of the group were if/when she is cured

I strongly disagree. I don't think it would actually bring much to the table for her to remember all those embarrassing moments where Farnese spoonfed her or wiped her ass. Rather, meeting these people for the first time and vice versa (them meeting the real her), while they tell her in their words about their time together while she was out... That'd be so very interesting and a fantastic vehicle for character development across the board.

I think it's actually Aazealh's idea, which I've co-opted and keep bringing up as if it's my own. Something I'm guilty of doing a lot!  :farnese:

:puck:

I know you mentioned this in a much earlier podcast Aazealh (I think it was around the episode 330 mark) but do you still believe the king of the flower storm might be connected to a large tree or plant in the village, something similar to Chich?

Yes, I believe he'll be related to plants in one way or another, hence his name. I always felt it would be logical since we first heard about him, and Chich really really reinforced the notion as far as I'm concerned.

Offline Theozilla

Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 70
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2015, 11:27:33 PM »
I strongly disagree. I don't think it would actually bring much to the table for her to remember all those embarrassing moments where Farnese spoonfed her or wiped her ass. Rather, meeting these people for the first time and vice versa (them meeting the real her), while they tell her in their words about their time together while she was out... That'd be so very interesting and a fantastic vehicle for character development across the board.

Hmmm, personally I think the scenario where Casca remembers her experiences from her nonlucid period has just as much potential for character development as the scenario where she doesn't remember her nonlucid experiences, just in a different manner. Even in the former situation Casca and Farnese and co. would still be needing "meet" each other again, only for Casca her interactions would be colored/affected by what she remembered, which I think could be an equally interesting dynamic (like getting to know someone that you don't really know, but while also simultaneously "knowing" in a emotionally intimate way that they have been taking of you for the past year or two could be a very interesting mindset for Casca to have to deal with).

Also another reason why I personally don't want Casca to not remember her experiences from her nonlucid period is because that would indicate Casca also wouldn't remember the various wrongs Guts committed against her prior to gaining their new companions. And while I do have faith in Miura as writer/storyteller in that he wouldn't avoid addressing those issues as part of Guts and Casca's reconciliation process, regardless of whether she remembers them or not, I would be kinda anxiousness of the latter scenario having the effect of unnecessarily lengthening that process e.g. such as Guts initially being tempted to not reveal his sins to Casca out of shame and/or not wanting to cause her further grief and/or having her trust in Guts shaken. I'd rather not have that potential temptation be an option at all, which Casca remembering her experiences from her nonlucid period would prevent from happening.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 12:06:55 AM by Theozilla »

Offline Walter

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 70
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2015, 03:21:17 PM »
Thank you for the podcast, it was wonderful. Walter I enjoyed the background music with the Berserk video game melodies and thought it was very fitting. It gives the talk something a little extra and I think it's a perfect length. Are you, Aazealh and Griffith thinking about doing a short video game segment in the future? I also enjoyed those and like to hear all of your opinions, I know it's off topic of Berserk but I always found it interesting.

Thanks for the feedback, glad you liked the music stuff.

As you know, we used to do video game/movie/book sections at the end of each show, but we rarely have the time these days. It's also why I cut back on the opening banter. Even though I'd love to do a more casual, slower paced show, we have to focus on the show's menu or we'll run over time  :sad:  Also, I honestly haven't been playing many games these days. I'll bet once the next Zelda comes out we'll all have something to say about it though.

Quote
I know you mentioned this in a much earlier podcast Aazealh (I think it was around the episode 330 mark) but do you still believe the king of the flower storm might be connected to a large tree or plant in the village, something similar to Chich?

Aaz has already answered, but I'm with him. This still makes perfect sense to me.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 70
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2015, 07:33:03 PM »
Hmmm, personally I think the scenario where Casca remembers her experiences from her nonlucid period has just as much potential for character development as the scenario where she doesn't remember her nonlucid experiences, just in a different manner.

Like I said, I don't think it would bring much to the table.

Even in the former situation Casca and Farnese and co. would still be needing "meet" each other again, only for Casca her interactions would be colored/affected by what she remembered, which I think could be an equally interesting dynamic (like getting to know someone that you don't really know, but while also simultaneously "knowing" in a emotionally intimate way that they have been taking of you for the past year or two could be a very interesting mindset for Casca to have to deal with).

I honestly don't see how that would make things more interesting compared to being told about it or having only partial memories/flashes of it. Those create many more opportunities for the characters to talk to each other and for new, different relationships to be born.

Also another reason why I personally don't want Casca to not remember her experiences from her nonlucid period is because that would indicate Casca also wouldn't remember the various wrongs Guts committed against her prior to gaining their new companions.

"Various wrongs" meaning two occurrences, including one for which Guts wasn't responsible because he became possessed by shielding her from spectres. Like I told you in the other thread where you mentioned this, I don't think that single occurrence in volume 23 where Guts loses it and assaults her holds so strong a significance that the entire process of curing her should hinge upon it. It's one element out of the general situation between them, and its importance relative to everything else is not as big as you're making it out to be. It has to be opposed to everything else he did for her (which is quite a lot), but also should be put next to his abandonment of her for two years and his mistreatment of their son in the early years. In the end I believe the whole picture will matter more than the individual details, especially since a restored Casca should presumably be more likely to forgive his lapse in judgment if she knows everything.

Keep in mind that this single event has had very long-lasting repercussions already, by canceling whatever goodwill Guts had earned in rescuing her and returning him to the status quo of Casca's inherent fear of males since the Eclipse. But it was dependent on Casca not being able to see the bigger picture, as was last highlighted by Farnese in episode 331. Once she can finally see it, to stay stuck on this specific event over everything else would feel like a lack of character development.

And while I do have faith in Miura as writer/storyteller in that he wouldn't avoid addressing those issues as part of Guts and Casca's reconciliation process, regardless of whether she remembers them or not, I would be kinda anxiousness of the latter scenario having the effect of unnecessarily lengthening that process

Sounds to me like you don't actually have much faith in Miura here.

Offline Theozilla

Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 70
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2015, 08:26:26 PM »
Like I said, I don't think it would bring much to the table.
Well, I personally disagree and I explained what value I think it could bring. You certainly don't have agree on its value, that's perfectly fine.

I honestly don't see how that would make things more interesting compared to being told about it or having only partial memories/flashes of it. Those create many more opportunities for the characters to talk to each other and for new, different relationships to be born.
As I said already, I think Casca will still need to be told and informed of things regardless of of whether her nonlucid experiences are remembered or not (as I don't think they would be remembered in a normal manner, she would likely need to put in work to process and understand them sufficiently). And as I explained, I think the emotional mindset that Casca would/could have if she retained her memories can create just as many opportunities for characters to interact with each other and modify/build new relationships, only just in a different manner than your scenario would have.

"Various wrongs" meaning two occurrences, including one for which Guts wasn't responsible because he became possessed by shielding her from spectres.
I am not sure if I am misunderstanding you, but Guts was only possessed by spectres when he physically assaulted Casca, he wasn't possessed by spectres when he sexually assaulted Casca (now one could argue he was "possessed" by The Beast of Darkness, but even then the beast is something that originates from Guts).

Like I told you in the other thread where you mentioned this, I don't think that single occurrence in volume 23 where Guts loses it and assaults her holds so strong a significance that the entire process of curing her should hinge upon it. It's one element out of the general situation between them, and its importance relative to everything else is not as big as you're making it out to be. It has to be opposed to everything else he did for her (which is quite a lot), but also should be put next to his abandonment of her for two years and his mistreatment of their son in the early years. In the end I believe the whole picture will matter more than the individual details, especially since a restored Casca should presumably be more likely to forgive his lapse in judgment if she knows everything.

Keep in mind that this single event has had very long-lasting repercussions already, by canceling whatever goodwill Guts had earned in rescuing her and returning him to the status quo of Casca's inherent fear of males since the Eclipse. But it was dependent on Casca not being able to see the bigger picture, as was last highlighted by Farnese in episode 331. Once she can finally see it, to stay stuck on this specific event over everything else would feel like a lack of character development.
I don't think the incident in Volume 23 should hold so much significance that the entire process of curing her should hinge upon it. And I agree it should be put next to his abandonment of her for two years and his mistreatment of their son in the early years (I wouldn't want Casca to not remember those issues/incidents either). And I agree Guts' wrongs should contrasted/weighed with all the good things he has done as well, but that doesn't mean that they should just cancel each other out. I just think Casca remembering the wrongs and the rights Guts did for/against her would be more interesting than her having to rely/react only on what is told to her.

Sounds to me like you don't actually have much faith in Miura here.
Jeez, that's kind of presumptuous of you. I can have faith in Miura's storytelling ability without it being a blind faith. Having anxiety/being prepared to critique a writer's future potential narrative choices doesn't invalidate the faith one can simultaneously hold at the same time.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 70
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2015, 08:42:39 PM »
As I said already, I think Casca will still need to be told and informed of things regardless of of whether her nonlucid experiences are remembered or not (as I don't think they would be remembered in a normal manner, she would likely need to put in work to process and understand them sufficiently).

Well that kind of dampens what you said about it being a shame for her to lack knowledge about them, if the process of them discovering each other happens anyway. Because that's where most of the development potential lies.

I think the emotional mindset that Casca would/could have if she retained her memories can create just as many opportunities for characters to interact with each other and modify/build new relationships, only just in a different manner than your scenario would have.

By definition remembering an existing relationship with someone doesn't create much of an opportunity for a new relationship to be born with the same person. But obviously, there will be potential for character development either way.

I am not sure if I am misunderstanding you, but Guts was only possessed by spectres when he physically assaulted Casca, he wasn't possessed by spectres when he sexually assaulted Casca (now one could argue he was "possessed" by The Beast of Darkness, but even then the beast is something that originates from Guts).

You are indeed misunderstanding the sentence.

I don't think the incident in Volume 23 should hold so much significance that the entire process of curing her should hinge upon it. And I agree it should be put next to his abandonment of her for two years and his mistreatment of their son in the early years (I wouldn't want Casca to not remember those issues/incidents either). And I agree Guts' wrongs should contrasted/weighed with all the good things he has done as well, but that doesn't mean that they should just cancel each other out. I just think Casca remembering the wrongs and the rights Guts did for/against her would be more interesting than her having to rely/react only on what is told to her.

Well I mentioned that because your post did not make it clear at all. In any case, there will be more going on with their relationship than just those elements. They will merely provide a backdrop for their future relationship, rather than take it up entirely.

Jeez, that's kind of presumptuous of you. I can have faith in Miura's storytelling ability without it being a blind faith. Having anxiety/being prepared to critique a writer's future potential narrative choices doesn't invalidate the faith one can simultaneously hold at the same time.

It isn't presumptuous at all. That's exactly what it sounds like, and is in fact exactly what you just said in the other thread where we're having the exact same discussion. Your statement about having faith in someone while doubting their future choices is completely contradictory.

Offline Walter

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 70
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2015, 08:44:13 PM »
Jeez, that's kind of presumptuous of you. I can have faith in Miura's storytelling ability without it being a blind faith. Having anxiety/being prepared to critique a writer's future potential narrative choices doesn't invalidate the faith one can simultaneously hold at the same time.

Just to be perfectly clear, so I can try to understand this statement: You have faith in Miura's ability to tell his story properly,  but you're worried he might not tell his story properly?

Am I getting that wrong? That's what it sounds like, and it's quite confusing.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 08:54:17 PM by Walter »
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Offline Theozilla

Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 70
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2015, 09:19:36 PM »
By definition remembering an existing relationship with someone doesn't create much of an opportunity for a new relationship to be born with the same person. But obviously, there will be potential for character development either way.
That's why I said "modify" as well a "build new" relationships. And even with Casca remembering Farnese, her relationship with her would still be dramatically changed and/or have new elements brought into it due to her restoration. New things can be created even if they are based on preexisting elements.

You are indeed misunderstanding the sentence.
Ah, okay, sorry then.

Well I mentioned that because your post did not make it clear at all. In any case, there will be more going on with their relationship than just those elements. They will merely provide a backdrop for their future relationship, rather than take it up entirely.
I am sorry that I did not make that clear. I agree that there will be more going on with their relationship than just those elements, but even as backdrop they're still pretty important issues that's all I am saying.

Quote
It isn't presumptuous at all. That's exactly what it sounds like, and is in fact exactly what you just said in the other thread where we're having the exact same discussion. Your statement about having faith in someone while doubting their future choices is completely contradictory.
Just to be perfectly clear, so I can try to understand this statement: You have faith in Miura's ability to tell his story properly,  but you're worried he might not tell his story properly?

Am I getting that wrong? That's what it sounds like, and it's quite confusing.
I am saying that I do believe Miura will tell his story well/properly (I'm like 98% confident that he will), but It think one can hold that belief while still acknowledging the possibility that he isn't infallible as storyteller (the 2% anxiety). I don't think I need to believe that Miura will always do right 100% of the time in order to claim a general faith in his abilities.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 70
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2015, 09:47:20 PM »
That's why I said "modify" as well a "build new" relationships. And even with Casca remembering Farnese, her relationship with her would still be dramatically changed and/or have new elements brought into it due to her restoration. New things can be created even if they are based on preexisting elements.

Sure, but what I meant is that from a purely theoretical standpoint there cannot be as many opportunities that way, since it provides a base of reference that will necessarily inform whatever character development occurs.

I am sorry that I did not make that clear. I agree that there will be more going on with their relationship than just those elements, but even as backdrop they're still pretty important issues that's all I am saying.

Well, again, that really goes without saying. It would be preposterous for everything that happened while she was damaged to be unaddressed. It might even be part of the healing process itself.

I am saying that I do believe Miura will tell his story well/properly (I'm like 98% confident that he will), but It think one can hold that belief while still acknowledging the possibility that he isn't infallible as storyteller (the 2% anxiety). I don't think I need to believe that Miura will always do right 100% of the time in order to claim a general faith in his abilities.

But your entire argument rests on the assumption he will not do the characters justice, which is absolutely unfair and unwarranted given that the issue you say you don't want to see ignored is one he created and made central to the current relationship between Guts and Casca in the first place.

Offline Theozilla

Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 70
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2015, 10:36:40 PM »
Sure, but what I meant is that from a purely theoretical standpoint there cannot be as many opportunities that way, since it provides a base of reference that will necessarily inform whatever character development occurs.
Sure you're right that from a theoretical mathematical standpoint there are less opportunities when there is a emotional base of reference that would inform future development. But even if there are technically less opportunities on the whole quantitatively, I personally find the potential quality of the opportunities that involve Casca retaining her post-Eclipse memories to be personally more narratively interesting/appealing.

Well, again, that really goes without saying. It would be preposterous for everything that happened while she was damaged to be unaddressed. It might even be part of the healing process itself.
Well, maybe it's obvious that it goes without saying for you; in fact I think a lot of things that going without saying for you aren't as obvious to me (which I suppose makes sense, I've only been following the series for less than two years while you've been following it for more than a decade (I assume)).

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 70
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2015, 11:32:36 PM »
Sure you're right that from a theoretical mathematical standpoint there are less opportunities when there is a emotional base of reference that would inform future development. But even if there are technically less opportunities on the whole quantitatively, I personally find the potential quality of the opportunities that involve Casca retaining her post-Eclipse memories to be personally more narratively interesting/appealing.

Well beyond the technicalities, like I said I think it mitigates your initial statement if you agree that they'll have to learn to know each other again regardless. That's the more important aspect to me.

Well, maybe it's obvious that it goes without saying for you; in fact I think a lot of things that going without saying for you aren't as obvious to me (which I suppose makes sense, I've only been following the series for less than two years while you've been following it for more than a decade (I assume)).

Nah, I don't think it's related to how long someone has been following the series. Don't you think it's normal and expected that Guts and Casca's past, including the complicated situations experienced since the Eclipse, will play a role in determining their future together? That's hardly a radical idea. In fact I can't say I remember hearing anyone argue otherwise in all my time here (which is indeed a very long time).