Author Topic: The kinetic energy of Guts swinging Dragonslayer  (Read 4604 times)

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Resonance

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The kinetic energy of Guts swinging Dragonslayer
« on: May 15, 2016, 04:04:56 PM »
Hello people of SkullKnight.net! For my first post, I want to show off something that I deem fairly interesting regarding Berserk. We all know that Guts is a very strong fellow, some may even deem his strength as monstrous but how strong exactly is he? This is what I will try to answer for you today.

First of all we should try to get a weight for Dragonslayer, unfortunately I have not really seen any statements regarding an official weight for the weapon (aside from the 500 pounds thing from the wiki which is not given a source  :azan: ) so I will share a little calculation I know off which manages to get a weight for the weapon, this is the source http:// http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:LordXcano/Calc_Request_-_Dragonslayer_Weight_Revised#comm-323285 but I will still post it here for you lazy people  :ganishka: the thickness will be 4cm btw



Density of Steel - 8050 kg/m^3 (Yeah steel is being used due to Godo remaking the weapon with presumably high quality materials, it will effect the final answer only by a minute amount)

Guts' Height - 1.9 meters

Guts' Height 2 - 633 px

Dragonslayer Total Length - 550.18 px

Dragonslayer Width - 100.57 px

Dragonslayer Tip Length - 50 px

Dragonslayer Tip Width - 68.01 px


1.9/633 = 0.003 meters per px

550.18-50 = 500.18 px

500.18*0.003 = 1.50054 meters

100.57*0.003 = 0.30171 meters

1.50054*0.30171 = 0.452728 meters^2

0.452728*0.07 = 0.031691 meters^3

0.031691*8050 = 255.11255 kg this is the total weight of Dragonslayer! Quite a bloody heavy weapon eh!

Now, for kinetic energy I will need more than just mass, I will need a velocity to acompany the weapon. You may be thinking to yourselves "Guts can swing his weapon at speeds the human eye cannot track" and you're right. However there is something which I deem much more impressive than this. Think back to the Ganishka fight back in chapter 274 specifically when Guts managed to stab Dragonslayer onto the ground whilst lightning was going to hit him. You may be thinking that Guts already had the weapon planted onto the ground but this panel showing Guts holding (in his left arm) proves he had to of stabbed it whilst the lightning came at him.


We can try to get an accurate distance from the lightning to Guts by angular scaling Serpico and Guts and taking away the highest distance with the lowest.

Serpico is the one being used for angsizing, we can have a rough estimate for his height being average males. 1.7 meters. Panel height is 350 pixels (line down the middle) https://gyazo.com/fb839284cc7f813c6843a7d596d2483d


Serpico is 120 pixels as shown here (line on Serpico) https://gyazo.com/01f17d6711074ef6b5350daa1cd7c22b

Guts is 38 pixels (line on Guts) as shown here https://gyazo.com/2045c56c869b707a32f0cc2259ae6f5d

The equation is basically 2*atan(height of object in pixels/(height of panel in pixels/tan(70/2)))

2*atan(120/(350/tan(70/2)))

2*atan(38/(350/tan(70/2)))

Plugging into angsize calculator I got 27 degrees for Serpico, and 13 degrees for Guts. Serpico is 1.7 meters tall (assuming he has height of normal man) and he has distance of   3.5406 meters, Guts has a height of 1.9 meters and  therefore has distance of  13.586 meters. Subtraction equals 10.054 meters from lightning to Guts.

Guts manages to move a distance of about 1 meter if rising from a crouching position+stabbing Dragonslayer into the ground counts as movement (keep in mind Guts is 1.9 meters, so crouching would decrease height significantly)

Now according to these links, I would say that lightning travels about 4.4x10^5 m/s you can see them for yourselves here http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1985JGR....90.8136T and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumulonimbus_cloud#Appearance

Now speed of lightning divided by of 10.054 meters = 43801m/s and we can account this for Guts reaction speed, and also the speed at which he can swing Dragonslayer as he managed to definately move it as the lightning came towards him. Time for kinetic energy  :ubik:

0.5 x 255 x 43801^2 = 244612269127.5 joules or.... 58 tons of tnt the power at which Guts can swing Dragonslayer is 1.3 x the power of a FOAB https://gyazo.com/7f3e0383950fd5d142db54c36a6798dc

Well, that should conclude everything. There may be a lot of grammatical errors but due to the amount of explanations/content present so thats my excuse :serpico: but either way hope I managed to share something interesting for my first post!  :guts:

PS. http://www.1728.org/angsize.htm < angsize calculator just in case you want it
« Last Edit: May 15, 2016, 04:59:05 PM by Resonance »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: The kinetic energy of Guts swinging Dragonslayer
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2016, 04:15:43 PM »
Hey man, welcome!

This looks like it took a lot of effort, but to be honest it also looks like some pretty bad pseudo-science to me. :ganishka:

Offline hearTes

Re: The kinetic energy of Guts swinging Dragonslayer
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2016, 04:22:16 PM »
So Guts is a walking nuke eh?   :ganishka: :troll:

Oh, you forgot one thing, the Berserker armor was not active when he plunged the DS into the ground, therefore 58 tons on tnt is probably a modest figure  :guts: xD

Resonance

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Re: The kinetic energy of Guts swinging Dragonslayer
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2016, 04:28:23 PM »
 Thanks for the reply! Also all information here has been already been approved by various people who have intermediate knowledge in calculus,physics etc so I assure you that the math/science here is acceptable. I mean making a topic with false results would be embaressing on my part  :ganishka: and I wanted to share this fascinating piece of trivia to the community.



Offline hearTes

Re: The kinetic energy of Guts swinging Dragonslayer
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2016, 04:32:52 PM »
I'm not a science guy so I can't really say anything about the formulas or the logic , though I agree with the evidence for the numbers, but doesn't 58 TONS of TNT sound a bit ridiculous for our Struggler  :ganishka:

Resonance

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Re: The kinetic energy of Guts swinging Dragonslayer
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2016, 04:38:30 PM »
It definately sounds like a gigantic number, but we should definately consider that Guts has always had superhuman attributes even in the golden age arc. So him years later who has gained a helluva ton stronger wont surprise me if he can dish out damage similar to a nuke  :ganishka: also he did manage to withstand lightning bolts from Ganny which managed to incinerate apostles,

What I find a bit more impressive is how fast Guts (without berserker armor) can react to things and swing his sword. Like he is 43801m/s which is  mach 127  :ganishka: what is a lil more frightning is how many swings he can probably dish out per/s  :guts:

Offline Delta Phi

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Re: The kinetic energy of Guts swinging Dragonslayer
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2016, 04:49:13 PM »
This is pretty hilarious! :ganishka: Thanks for all the calculations. I like these kinds of things

Resonance

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Re: The kinetic energy of Guts swinging Dragonslayer
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2016, 04:53:11 PM »
Ah cheers man, glad I could peak your interest  :guts:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: The kinetic energy of Guts swinging Dragonslayer
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2016, 07:42:53 PM »
Thanks for the reply! Also all information here has been already been approved by various people who have intermediate knowledge in calculus,physics etc so I assure you that the math/science here is acceptable.

I'm sorry man but your methods are extremely dubious. For example, you didn't take the perspective of those pictures into account when establishing measurements. You're also converting pixels of a scans made from drawings into meters, which is everything but "scientifically" acceptable. And you're basically guessing what the density of the Dragon Slayer is, since we don't know how it was forged. Putting all that aside, a member of this forum once had a blacksmith create an actual steel replica of the Dragon Slayer. It was 215 cm tall in total, with a 170 cm blade that was 29 cm wide at the tip and 38 wide at the base, and a thickness of 3 cm. It weighed 20 kg.

Then there's your calculation of how fast Guts moves, based on a comparison to a lightning strike. You're estimating precise measures of time based on still drawings that can have anything from femtoseconds to years between them depending on the author's will. You're also assuming Ganishka's lightning has the same properties as natural lightning as it occurs in our world, which is everything but guaranteed.

So I don't want to pick on you and I'm sorry if this looks like it, but when HearTes says 58 tons of TNT is a ridiculous figure it's because it is (although nowhere near the power of a nuclear bomb). In fact, it's being proven wrong in the manga every single time Guts strikes at something, since he clearly doesn't display that kind of power. But beyond that, you also casually advance that Guts can move at 43801 meters per second, which converted for our American friends means 97980 miles per hour. Again, anyone can see by reading the story that this isn't the case.

Resonance

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Re: The kinetic energy of Guts swinging Dragonslayer
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2016, 09:06:40 PM »
Don't worry bout it man, if you have legitimate doubts then I should do my job to answer them in good detail.

Converting pixels into meters is a common method that most calculators (such as I) use to determine the height or the amount of distance there is from x to y within panels. This method is most commonly known as Pixel scaling and many,many people including those who have experience science/maths use. You can read more about it here http://www.outskirtsbattledomewiki.com/index.php/13-general-obd-terms/75-calculation-methods and here http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Calculation_Guide

I would have to disagree with guessing the density of Dragonslayer, there is steel used backed with a justification as to why it's being used. I then find out the shapes that Dragonslayer has and with the measurements I have gained through the use of pixel scaling I then get a volume and as a result get a mass from the density I am using.

When I am dealt with speed feats within fiction I generally do equations which are like this, distance character moves x speed of said projectile/distance of said projectile. From the scans we know that Guts managed to move a distance of 1 meter via getting up from the ground and stabbing Dragonslayer into the ground, so then I apply the distance he moves to the speed of lightning and etc. I try not to involve a timeframe for when the character moves but the distance instead if that makes sense. Also Ganishka would be given the benefit of the doubt as to whether or not the lightning he casts is real or not for these reasons. One because the lightning comes from it is a cloud rather than just out of thin air and the next reason is Guts applying his knowledge of lightning to the battle " so lightning does hit the highest places " I see no reason to believe why it should not be real lightning.

Guts being able to deliver 58 tons of tnt worth damage is more like a attack potency rather than a pure destructive feat, I believe this will explain it to you better than I can http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Attack_Potency also the whole thing regarding Guts speed only applies towards the speed he can swing his sword, and the reactions he has. Not actual running/travelling speed.

PS one last (off topic thing) my site of origin before I came here is a power indexing site known as VS battles wikia, in which we look at a variety of characters from fictional verses and apply a specific set of statistics towards them in terms of fighting capability. What I am trying to do atm is to create the most accurate Berserk verse type page with accurate power listings across the board. Just a heads up in case you're wondering.

Offline Walter

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Re: The kinetic energy of Guts swinging Dragonslayer
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2016, 12:49:45 AM »
Why.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline DasBouf

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Offline Walter

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Re: The kinetic energy of Guts swinging Dragonslayer
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2016, 01:02:59 AM »
Why not?

I wasn't directing my rhetorical question to you, necessarily, but I can elaborate: What value do you get from applying real-world science to a fantasy series?

And if you're really going to go balls out Newtonian with this, why are you basing it off of  an image from a low perspective? With Guts hunched over? Why not one of the game art books which actually show the proper dimensions? The overlay you've got at the top of this thread really isn't doing you any favors in terms of looking like credible work.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline DasBouf

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Re: The kinetic energy of Guts swinging Dragonslayer
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2016, 02:05:51 AM »
I wasn't directing my rhetorical question to you, necessarily
Well to be fair I didn't make the post I just though it was neat

but I can elaborate: What value do you get from applying real-world science to a fantasy series?
For fun more or less. Like I said, I think this was pretty neat, and I think it's cool someone would dedicate the time to do this

And if you're really going to go balls out Newtonian with this, why are you basing it off of  an image from a low perspective? With Guts hunched over? Why not one of the game art books which actually show the proper dimensions?
OP, I gotta agree with Walter here. I wouldn't have used that picture for measurements, as it's coming from a lower angle.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: The kinetic energy of Guts swinging Dragonslayer
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2016, 07:48:46 AM »
Converting pixels into meters is a common method that most calculators (such as I) use to determine the height or the amount of distance there is from x to y within panels. This method is most commonly known as Pixel scaling and many,many people including those who have experience science/maths use.

You forgot the part about the picture being a scan of a drawing. And the part about both drawings having a perspective that you didn't take into account, and therefore throwing your measurements off.

I would have to disagree with guessing the density of Dragonslayer, there is steel used backed with a justification as to why it's being used.

It is never said in the series that the weapon is made of steel. Putting that aside, as it uses a ferrous alloy anyway, you're merely guessing what its density is, as it can vary depending on a variety of factors. The way it was forged being one of these. Who says it's 8050 and not 7850 m3/kg? What bothers me about this whole thing is that you're pretending very hard that any of this is rigorous when it so clearly isn't. Also, your justification is "steel is being used due to Godo remaking the weapon with presumably high quality materials". Godot did not "remake" the Dragon Slayer, so I don't see how that explains anything.

I then find out the shapes that Dragonslayer has and with the measurements I have gained through the use of pixel scaling I then get a volume and as a result get a mass from the density I am using.

Only, like I said, you don't account for the perspective in the pictures made from drawings you use. You also didn't measure the thickness of the blade, nor the length and diameter of the handle.

From the scans we know that Guts managed to move a distance of 1 meter via getting up from the ground and stabbing Dragonslayer into the ground, so then I apply the distance he moves to the speed of lightning and etc.

Do we? Who decides that? You're measuring an action that takes place between panels, and are guessing a distance based on an image that, again, has a perspective to it. Beyond that, Guts was on his knees, and simply lifting his torso isn't really "moving one meter". Finally, the lightning used by Ganishka here is magical in nature, so its speed and properties aren't fully known.

Also Ganishka would be given the benefit of the doubt as to whether or not the lightning he casts is real or not for these reasons. One because the lightning comes from it is a cloud rather than just out of thin air and the next reason is Guts applying his knowledge of lightning to the battle " so lightning does hit the highest places " I see no reason to believe why it should not be real lightning.

The fact your calculations result in saying Guts can move at Mach 127 should be enough reason for you to believe something is off. :slan: And we see the characters deal with Ganishka's attacks in other panels in a way that shows us they differ from standard lightning bolts. They're not "instant", they're emitted like electricity would be from a Tesla coil, and we can see that Serpico too manages to counter them. But really, the bigger problem here is that the action you're basing your measurement on, that of Guts setting the DS up, happens off screen. In the shot where the lightning falls on him, he's only a tiny silhouette, so we don't know how far in the process of lifting the DS he is. More importantly, that scene is meant to be a cliffhanger so one should assume artistic license is being used to ensure it is.

PS one last (off topic thing) my site of origin before I came here is a power indexing site known as VS battles wikia, in which we look at a variety of characters from fictional verses and apply a specific set of statistics towards them in terms of fighting capability. What I am trying to do atm is to create the most accurate Berserk verse type page with accurate power listings across the board. Just a heads up in case you're wondering.

I understand, and I'm done picking on your hobby. But I think you shouldn't go for such a roundabout way of calculating power and instead focus on finding a simpler, more accurate metric that would also be more internally consistent within the story. Like for example the fact Guts can break through around 2 pillars (with iron cores) in episode 256. You could "measure" the force required to do that and use it as your value. It'd be more in line with what he's shown to be able to do in the series in general.

Resonance

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Re: The kinetic energy of Guts swinging Dragonslayer
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2016, 02:59:15 PM »
I just want to clear up the stuff about Dragonslayer, the only assumptions that is used within the calculation is the thickness of the blade which was 0.3cm ( I say 4 cm but then later on within the calculation 0.03 is used for thickness... My mistake) also the perspective and density used (steel) do seem somewhat faulty so I can agree with you here. If I am given a proper picture with acceptable perspective then I can try and redo the weight someother time. Regarding steel if Iron was used instead the weight would of been 243kg which is not much of a difference at all, but it's here just incase you want to be pinpoint accurate.

The result being mach 127 is not very shocking for me to be honest, I remember seeing a calculation for JoJo which got a result of 365c :ganishka: also if the lightning had not been travelling at the speed of a lightning bolt, then why would this comment be stated? https://gyazo.com/025654c4b4e709d99ec2a4ce93de6b94

Again, I am not getting a timeframe for Guts standing and rising, I just need a distance for him performing this action which is approximately a meter. And yes as bizarre as it sounds going from a prone position to standing upright does require movement put into it which is about a meter considering how low Guts is to the ground. Plus he had to of set it at the time the panel shows, because if not he would of been electrocuted.

If you want to go with consistancy for the story, Wyald has been able to literally move at speeds of Mach 22  seeing as he managed to impale someone onto a tower in a timeframe of 0.0083 seconds (speed needed to be faster than the human eye can track). And there is also a 45 ton of tnt feat due to Guts (with Shierkes aid) vaporising the head of a water snake.  http://forums.hero-academia.com/xfa-blog-entry/berserk-feat-guts-and-Schierke-vaporize-some-water.21784/  mach 22 Wyald http://www.narutoforums.com/xfa-blog-entry/berserk-pre-eclipse-hypersonic-shit.26233/ (mind the vulgar language, these are not my calculations )



Offline Walter

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Re: The kinetic energy of Guts swinging Dragonslayer
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2016, 03:11:14 PM »
The result being mach 127 is not very shocking for me to be honest, I remember seeing a calculation for JoJo which got a result of 365c

Then, ya know, maybe those numbers don't really make much sense because you're applying real-world limitations on a fantasy series?

If you want to go with consistancy for the story, Wyald has been able to literally move at speeds of Mach 22  seeing as he managed to impale someone onto a tower in a timeframe of 0.0083 seconds (speed needed to be faster than the human eye can track).

That's not necessarily what happened. The scenario as shown in the manga is ambiguous. Wyald gave an intense, inhuman look, and a second later, the guy was impaled on a tower and everyone was shocked. The simplest explanation is that he just uppercutted the dude, and people were just shocked by his sheer strength (and of course the accuracy of his blow).

The circumstance doesn't necessitate that he did something completely insane, like transform, jump up the tower with the dude's body, slamm him down on top of it, and then bound down like nothing had happened.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Resonance

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Re: The kinetic energy of Guts swinging Dragonslayer
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2016, 03:36:35 PM »
Well, since you cannot apply real life limitations to Fantasy, fantasy characters can do anything. Crossing a lightyear at the speed of sound in a second? No problem. Basically, if you are going to use the excuse of "it is fantasy", then you might as well throw logic out the window entirely.

The King clearly states that this event happned within an instant, and that although it happned before his eyes it seemed like a joke to him. Seems like faster than the eye to me. However the stuff about uppercutting the guy is a fairly interesting solution, but the fact that the guys jaw remains intact and how Wyalds fist appears to be clean I doubt it to be the case.


Offline Aazealh

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Re: The kinetic energy of Guts swinging Dragonslayer
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2016, 04:35:25 PM »
If you want to go with consistancy for the story, Wyald has been able to literally move at speeds of Mach 22

At no point in the series is Wyald shown to "literally move at speeds of Mach 22". That's the part you don't get. We see Wyald fight in a variety of situations, and he doesn't display anything close to that speed. You're just making up numbers based on your interpretation of things that happen off screen.

And there is also a 45 ton of tnt feat due to Guts (with Shierkes aid) vaporising the head of a water snake.

:schierke: Alright I really give up this time.

Resonance

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Re: The kinetic energy of Guts swinging Dragonslayer
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2016, 04:46:46 PM »
For the Wyald stuff, the reason he is mach 22 was because he managed to pierce someone onto the spike of a roof at a speed faster than the human eye can track (FTE for short). I believe the OP within the thread lists his reasons as to why he thinks it was at such a speed due to the words the King uses to describe the feat such as "instantly" etc.

 :ganishka: yeah this verse does pack a lot more power than I was expecting, but nontheless this comment from Walter interested me "Why not one of the game art books which actually show the proper dimensions?" I am not exactly sure what picture he is talking about, but if I am given a hint or reference then I suppose I can attempt to measure the blade again. (as long as Guts or someone else is in the picture to allow for pixel scaling)

Offline Khalamir

Re: The kinetic energy of Guts swinging Dragonslayer
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2016, 12:31:09 AM »
I certainly hope Guts isn't that fast. That's way too over the top for my taste.

Here are the problems with your calculation:
1. Moving at such a speed would cause immense air pressure and friction on Guts and the Dragonslayer, to the point that the sword would be leaving a trail of plasma after it. If Guts could withstand something like this, normal weapons shouldn't be able to hurt him.
2. While fighting Serpico, he could barely break through Two stone pillars, and he said he wasn't holding back.
3. While evading the Kushan army, Guts took One of their horses to run away. A horse moves at about 10 m/s while galloping. This means Guts can't move faster than 10 m/s (but I think he could move faster than that with the armor) I know that striking speed and travelling speed are not the same, but having such a huge gap between the Two makes no sense.
4. Guts couldn't break through Grunbeld's shield without the berserker armor, and the most it could stop was a cannonnall.
5. Guts was surprised Serpico could dodge a shot from his crossbow at point blank range, even though since Serpico should have comparable speed & reflexes to Guts, according to your calculations he should have been able to sidestep it easily.
6.When Rosine broke the sound barrier, the manga made a big deal about it. Hell, Guts couldn't even react to her until she slowed down. She also created shockwaves and strong winds while doing so, which means Miura acknowledges what happens when something moves at such a speed. It doesn't make sense that all these characters can just casually move at such ridiculous speeds now.

My interpretation is that Ganishka was either only charging the lightning while Guts drove the dragonslayer into the ground, or that this is what I believe would be called an outlier feat (a feat that doesn't make sense for a character to make).

As for Wyald: He was riding on a horse while chasing the band of the hawk. This pretty much confirms that Wyald also can't move faster than 10 m/s. Also, 'instantly' could have just meant that the fight ended very quickly, not that it literally happened in an instant.

From what I've seen of VS debates, a feat should only be used if it's within reason of the character's other feats, and these Ones clearly aren't.

And there is also a 45 ton of tnt feat due to Guts (with Shierkes aid) vaporising the head of a water snake.  http://forums.hero-academia.com/xfa-blog-entry/berserk-feat-guts-and-Schierke-vaporize-some-water.21784/

Um, sorry, but did you even read the manga? The fire spirit Schierke summoned into Guts' sword did that, not Guts. All Guts did was jump into the Kundalini, the blaze wheel did the rest.
I saw this cited in OBD wiki once, I couldn't help but facepalm.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2016, 05:03:13 AM by Khalamir »

Resonance

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Re: The kinetic energy of Guts swinging Dragonslayer
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2016, 03:25:47 PM »
1. It is suspension of disbelief, like FTL travel. You can say characters or beings which move at FTL are capable of causing widespread destruction towards our planet yet do not showcase this. Would that strip their rights of being a FTL being?

2. This is fiction we are talking about, there can be incredibly absurd gaps in between travel and combat speed, I can recall from the top of my head someone called Gilgamesh from F/SN who has Hypersonic combat speed. Yet has been able to travel at speeds such as millions of times ftl. Also Guts needing to use a horse can be classified as PIS, there are plenty of examples where fast characters within a verse happen to use a car or vehicle for no good reason whatsoever.

3. Gurenbeld never stated that canonballs was the upmost limit for his shield, so the complete durabillity of it is rather unknown. Also Guts never hit his shield before Berserker armor, he just took a beating from them after his ethereal body was damaged by Slan etc.

4. Serpico has also been able to dodge lightning like Guts has, however his version netted mach 35 rather than Guts impressive mach 127. Also Serpico still dodged it so I don't see the problem here.

5. The authors of Flash give him a feat which is trillions of times faster than light, yet his author still insisted that he was only 0.9c which is comedic. It's why in a situation where feats contradict statements, I and practically every other vs debating site on the net use feats instead.

That panel did not look like Ganishka was charging lightning to me. And it seems both OBD and Vs battles wikia seem to be in mutual agreement that my calcs etc are not outliers and fit fine with the character. I have had zero opposition on these sites compared to here.

Offline Khalamir

Re: The kinetic energy of Guts swinging Dragonslayer
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2016, 04:05:13 PM »
1. It is suspension of disbelief, like FTL travel. You can say characters or beings which move at FTL are capable of causing widespread destruction towards our planet yet do not showcase this. Would that strip their rights of being a FTL being?
That's irrelevant. Like I said, Miura already acknowledged what happens when something moves at supersonic speed, which means that yes, if you put an FTL character in Berserk, they would damage the planet.

2. This is fiction we are talking about, there can be incredibly absurd gaps in between travel and combat speed, I can recall from the top of my head someone called Gilgamesh from F/SN who has Hypersonic combat speed. Yet has been able to travel at speeds such as millions of times ftl. Also Guts needing to use a horse can be classified as PIS, there are plenty of examples where fast characters within a verse happen to use a car or vehicle for no good reason whatsoever.
Miura didn't make F/SN though, so you can't expect him to make the same inconsistencies

3. Gurenbeld never stated that canonballs was the upmost limit for his shield, so the complete durabillity of it is rather unknown. Also Guts never hit his shield before Berserker armor, he just took a beating from them after his ethereal body was damaged by Slan etc.

Guts did attack Grunbeld without the armor, actually, and Grunbeld blocked it effortlessly.
4. Serpico has also been able to dodge lightning like Guts has, however his version netted mach 35 rather than Guts impressive mach 127. Also Serpico still dodged it so I don't see the problem here.

The problem is that Guts tried to shoot someone who should be comparable in speed to him with something that he should have been easily capable of sidestepping. In fact Guts' cannon and crossbow should have been useless against every major enemy because they were mostly of comparable speed to him.

5. The authors of Flash give him a feat which is trillions of times faster than light, yet his author still insisted that he was only 0.9c which is comedic. It's why in a situation where feats contradict statements, I and practically every other vs debating site on the net use feats instead.

If he only has One feat of doing this, and all his other feats are in line with the authors words, then this is an outlier feat.

And I see you missed my 2nd point about Guts barely breaking through 2 stone pillars.

And here's some more contradictions for you:
It took Guts several hits until he cracked Zodd's sword when they fought, even though it was made with normal steel (it was a sword he took from the Kushan).
Even with the armor, Guts only cracked Grunbeld's Corundum skin, even though according to your calculations, the dragonslayer should have easily went all the way through.

By the way, you said that Ganishka's lightning must have been as fast as normal lightning because of Daiba's statement, but now you're saying character statements are invalid?

That panel did not look like Ganishka was charging lightning to me. And it seems both OBD and Vs battles wikia seem to be in mutual agreement that my calcs etc are not outliers and fit fine with the character. I have had zero opposition on these sites compared to here.

Not an outlier feat, you say? Alright, then, find me another feat of Guts doing anything even remotely close to this. I'l be waiting. Same for Serpico, by the way.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2016, 04:45:09 PM by Khalamir »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: The kinetic energy of Guts swinging Dragonslayer
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2016, 06:27:34 PM »
And it seems both OBD and Vs battles wikia seem to be in mutual agreement that my calcs etc are not outliers and fit fine with the character. I have had zero opposition on these sites compared to here.

That only goes to show what a travesty that whole thing is.

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Re: The kinetic energy of Guts swinging Dragonslayer
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2016, 06:37:34 PM »
They are not inconsistencies, sometimes they are even attributed to a characters statistics. In most vs battles boards we do not account combat speed for travel speed or vice versa, there has to be showings of this.

I mentioned that Guts was severely weakened by Slan also, so I doubt he could of performed significant damage.

You can account this for many verses, where ftl characters do something odd within their stories and get hit by bullets despite numerous other showings.

Guts has many other feats, where he fought Wyald who performed a mach 22 feat pre blackswordsman, manages to tank being within the explosion of the water snake which got energy yield of 45 tons of tnt and finally Dragonslayers ke which is horrendously powerful.

Guts did not struggle breaking the pillars, infact Serpico even said that his sword could perform feats of a higher caliber..

Character/author statements only become invalid once they contradict feats as said before, I even used the Flash thing as an example.

Quantity of feats =/= outlier, if this was the case Star Platinum being able to punch down diamond teeth would be treated as such due to it failing to kill humans on a regular basis (this does not mean SP is weak, just that the author forgets the power of his characters etc)

I don't believe that comment I made made any sense to be fair, I tried to get some meaning from it such as " I have to go through multiple content revisions, discussions and more to get them approved " sort of thing. I think the comment I made there reflected those thoughts poorly. @Aazealh
« Last Edit: May 18, 2016, 06:52:20 PM by Resonance »