Author Topic: Episode 344  (Read 30220 times)

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Offline Henry Spencer

Re: Episode 344
« Reply #125 on: July 01, 2016, 06:13:22 PM »
I do wonder if Griffith has maybe already dispatched a team to try to destroy Skellig and kill its inhabitants. At least that way we can see the powers of the inhabitants of the island in their full view and Guts defending them (and thus gaining their trust) as well as push for a return of Skull Knight to the island to help with the defense (this could mirror the failed defense of Flora's home; here Guts and his newfound allies are actually successful in the defense). Might be an excuse for Guts and co. (Schierke and Isidro especially) to finally meet the likes of Sonia and Mule again (let's say Sonia and Mule encourage Irvine to sneak in, or shall we say, spy on the events from a distance and follow the members of the Band of the Hawk who do go, if Sonia gets shut out of whatever plans Griffith tells his generals). Wonder how they'd react to seeing them trying to destroy a peaceful place like that. Would it be enough to shake their foundations of who Griffith is or would it take more for that to happen? Would they switch sides? I guess it all depends on how long Guts and co. stick around and the forthcoming events but I could see some good excuses for conflicts to take place like that in the near future. Just a theory.

I wonder who Griffith would send for the siege and who would stay behind?

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #126 on: July 01, 2016, 07:42:39 PM »
For some reason, I feel like a member of the God Hand is going to show up on the island at some point. I'm hoping it's Conrad, since we haven't seen as much of him as the others. I just can't see a bunch of apostles, Sonia and Mule arriving by boat or on the backs of flying apostles. Who knows what we're in for, though?

This was a very exciting episode for me. Since they set off for Elfhelm, I've been thinking about the new characters we'd meet. I'm looking forward to getting to know Kukka, Tune, Yoni, Molda and Ged better, and seeing even more characters join the cast.

In the podcast, it was supposed that Flora spoke to Ged from the astral world. If that's the case, I wonder if Schierke will be reunited with Flora through some form of astral communication in the next few episodes.

I think all of us are betting on seeing the Skull Knight at some point, too, but I have a feeling we may end up meeting him and the King of the Flower Storm at the same time. I have this image in my head of the king's reveal, with SK standing behind him and off to the side, as if they had been conversing before the group entered. :void:

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #127 on: July 02, 2016, 03:34:30 AM »
Frankly, the prospects of this are being undersold. Forget Apostles vs. Astral Creatures or some traditional battle and think the The God Hand attacking the last stronghold of magic opposed to their control. Good vs. Evil.

Offline Squiddot

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #128 on: July 02, 2016, 07:39:21 AM »
I'm not sure if we've only seen one certain "district" of the village that's not indicative of the rest of the population but i find it strange the majority of the inhabitants are children. Are these orphans taken from the mainlands or is there a sizeable adult population deeper in the village, or even out on business against Griffith? Hopefully we get some sort of explanation down the track.

On that note, discussion about Elfhelm being a final bastion of defence against Griffith or even an attacking force is starting to get heated. But (unless i'm forgetting a discussion somewhere on the journey) Elfhelm has been sold as a safe place to send, and later on, cure Casca. And besides schierke explaining there's a strong magician presence no other promises were made. From what we've seen the population seems very isolationist with little respect or regard for "barbarian" mainlanders. And the entire island is cloaked in time dilation that allows the years of the outside world to rush by while the inhabitants remain stationary. I really don't think the party will be leaving with an army. Morda definitely, Casca, more gear, information and a greater purpose i'm sure of as well. But the island at the moment seems at best ill-equip and unprepared (its an island of students that may be fully fledged in a few years, which could be decades on the mainland) and at worse completely uninterested in dealing with outside affairs. Maybe an attack could rouse the population into action. We can't really guess considering our only other example Flora, was so sure this was her fate she burned alive.

On the topic of an attack (sorry, its a double tangeant  :slan:). The continued destruction of spirit trees explains what Zodd and Grunbeld have been doing while the other commanders attend to needs in Falconia. Their jobs clearly didn't end with Flora or Ganishka and i presume they went back to leading their armies as soon as Falconia was established. Which makes the presence of apostles in the capitol kind of interesting. Griffith deliberately left a force to entertain themselves in the gladiator arena when he could have sent them out to sack the spirit trees. Obviously any castle of old would need a standing defence force, But Falconia is uncontested in the human world, and the natural geography wards off astral creatures. Not sure what Griffith needs an apostle brigade on hand for, but maybe he anticipates that he'll need to defend Falconia quite intensely.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #129 on: July 03, 2016, 01:01:19 PM »
The biggest revelation to me, that we didn't already presume, was the confirmation that Griffith wasn't merely targeting Flora but all such magical sites. It definitely suggests the gang won't be leaving by choice and has me excited for what's likely to be a cataclysmic penultimate battle when Griff sails/flies his unholy army to Skellig looking to finish the job.

There's a pretty big flaw in your assumption here: the seals were what kept the Astral World away from the Corporeal World. They have already been broken, and the "Great Blast" has already occurred. Therefore that can't be a motivation for Griffith to want to "finish the job". I also still don't think to this day that it makes sense for apostles to fly uninterrupted for months on end to find a place they have no direction to. Of course, there's the fact time flows differently on the island than it does in the outside world. That means apostles could have departed much later and still arrive relatively quickly compared to how long Guts & friends have been there. But by the same token the time flow aspect is a clear hint that Guts & company can't stay on the island for long, and means that they will have to leave by themselves anyway even if nothing happens. In fact, the choice of whether or not to stay there, isolated from the rest of the world (as opposed to rushing headlong in a desperate quest to save it), could be a very interesting dilemma for all our characters and especially Guts & Casca.

I also think it's interesting that, considering the players and the stakes, it could really be a most worthy finale since I think we've always presumed, at least I have, that Guts and co. would eventually come to him.

I really can't believe the finale of the story won't be in Falconia, or that they won't at least come to Falconia before that.

I'm not sure Griffith is going to send his army to attack Skellig. To do that would mean his apostles would have to battle Guts & co as well as all other wizards on their ground, meaning they would be at heavy disadvantage. I imagine the island itself would try to fight, including nature spirits, elements as well as other astral creatures. Guts alone can plow through average apostles and the rest of them are capable of fighting them off as well. That's not including all the wizards, possible astral creatures on Skellig that are allied to Elf King, and Guru Mage is there as well.

There is that as well. In volume 26, Flora was dying and in no state to fight and Guts was grievously wounded. The situation isn't quite the same here. The relevant question is: would sending 50 apostles (if we assume that would be enough to overwhelm the defenders) to Skellig make sense, even if it were possible? Right now I don't think so. I believe Griffith has other priorities. But that doesn't mean there won't be any fighting taking place in the next three volumes, just that there are other possibilities than a simple rerun of what happened at Flora's. There could be an unrelated threat or struggle, or, as I have commented before, an attack instigated by another member of the God Hand.

now that he doesnt have an access to his crossbow anymore.

Guts still has his crossbow. Also, "guru" is a title, like "master", not a name. The guy is called Gedflynn or something similar.

But a speculation's foundation should be built on information we already know.  The information we have says they aren't much of a problem.  Especially for an army of apostles.

Skeleton, I read your exchange with Feeblecursedone and I thought I would just caution you about speaking with high confidence to support suppositions that are not very solid themselves. For example about the reach of the Idea of Evil's influence or the motivations and powers of various actors we don't know much about yet.

And yet, they've heretofore been relegated to an island, far, far away thanks to the actions of humans. The Idea of Evil's means of control stems from humanity, and humanity has done a pretty stellar job of distancing itself from those elements and constraining their role on the world stage. My point being, they're probably exactly where they're supposed to be for whatever it is the God Hand have planned.

The opposite argument could be made: that isolating themselves from humanity as a whole and the world in general by taking residence on an island that is outside the normal flow of time and ruled by the King of Elves is probably the surest way of escaping the Idea of Evil's reach. That doesn't make a difference in regard to their relevance to the current world situation, but at some point we have to start assuming the Idea of Evil's "master plan" has a limit, otherwise our heroes cannot triumph.

Still not sure about that "World Seals" thing.

The line basically is: "We call it The Great Gust of the Astral World... It's what the one called "the Falcon of Light" did. The seals which exist in several parts of the world, as forests of spiritual trees, have been attacked."

But of course, because of the way Japanese works, a lot of variations are also possible (singular & plural form, etc.). In any case, what's implied is that those forests act(ed) as seals keeping the two worlds apart.

I do wonder if Griffith has maybe already dispatched a team to try to destroy Skellig and kill its inhabitants. At least that way we can see the powers of the inhabitants of the island in their full view and Guts defending them (and thus gaining their trust) as well as push for a return of Skull Knight to the island to help with the defense (this could mirror the failed defense of Flora's home; here Guts and his newfound allies are actually successful in the defense).  Might be an excuse for Guts and co. (Schierke and Isidro especially) to finally meet the likes of Sonia and Mule again [...] I wonder who Griffith would send for the siege and who would stay behind?

I'll start with the end of your post to say that I couldn't help but notice that Zodd was nowhere to be seen during the time we spent in Falconia with Rickert. That being said, aside from the various elements I exposed at the beginning of my post, I'm not sure Elfhelm would be the right setting for Zodd's death, since that's how you see this go. To do him justice and have it fit with the rest, it'd have to be particularly dramatic, like Guts fighting him to the death to protect the King of the Flower Storm while Casca was being healed.

I also don't think an all-out battle for survival needs to occur right now. Guts and the others are already welcomed guests and don't need to prove themselves. Same for seeing the powers of the island's inhabitants: the little battle we were shown already served that purpose, and it might be better for the story to not show too much too early. Lastly, I also really don't see Mule and Sonia being there and meeting Schierke and Isidro again. The time just isn't right in my opinion.

For some reason, I feel like a member of the God Hand is going to show up on the island at some point. I'm hoping it's Conrad, since we haven't seen as much of him as the others. I just can't see a bunch of apostles, Sonia and Mule arriving by boat or on the backs of flying apostles. Who knows what we're in for, though?

I've talked about it before, so maybe you're thinking of that? Anyway I think it would be more interesting than a repeat of what happened at Flora's place. A supernatural attack might also befit the place itself more than monsters ready for slaughter, what with it being the Elf capital, plus being populated by magic users.

In the podcast, it was supposed that Flora spoke to Ged from the astral world. If that's the case, I wonder if Schierke will be reunited with Flora through some form of astral communication in the next few episodes.

That's not a supposition, Ged says so in the episode. It's basically what Flora had told Schierke in volume 27 "I'll see you in your dreams." Maybe we'll finally get to see that. :ubik:

I think all of us are betting on seeing the Skull Knight at some point, too, but I have a feeling we may end up meeting him and the King of the Flower Storm at the same time. I have this image in my head of the king's reveal, with SK standing behind him and off to the side, as if they had been conversing before the group entered. :void:

Haha, who knows.

The continued destruction of spirit trees explains what Zodd and Grunbeld have been doing while the other commanders attend to needs in Falconia. Their jobs clearly didn't end with Flora or Ganishka and i presume they went back to leading their armies as soon as Falconia was established.

If you read the line, it says the fusion of the worlds happened because the seals had been attacked. Why would the attacks go on afterwards?

Offline Feeblecursedone

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #130 on: July 03, 2016, 02:51:46 PM »
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Guts still has his crossbow. Also, "guru" is a title, like "master", not a name. The guy is called Gedflynn or something similar.

Yeah but he doesn't use it anymore since he acquired the berserker armour. Still, I would like to see some new weapons in his arsenal, or some new modifications to his armour. Sure, Im aware what guru means.

Btw, speaking of the things to come, do you guys think we may meet dwarves? Probably not on Skellig, but later on.

Offline Rupert Sinclair

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #131 on: July 03, 2016, 04:31:48 PM »
In any case, what's implied is that those forests act(ed) as seals keeping the two worlds apart.

This is very, very interesting.  It adds a whole new layer to what we understood of the situation.  Man, I can't wait for what else we might learn in the next several episodes.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #132 on: July 03, 2016, 05:54:59 PM »
Yeah but he doesn't use it anymore since he acquired the berserker armour. Still, I would like to see some new weapons in his arsenal, or some new modifications to his armour. Sure, Im aware what guru means.

You're wrong, Guts has used his crossbow since volume 26. When they fought their way out of Vritannis, for example.

Btw, speaking of the things to come, do you guys think we may meet dwarves? Probably not on Skellig, but later on.

It's quite possibly that dwarves live in Elfhelm, yes.

This is very, very interesting.  It adds a whole new layer to what we understood of the situation.  Man, I can't wait for what else we might learn in the next several episodes.

Yeah, the next episode will certainly be a very very important one in the series. For example the idea that maybe the two worlds were kept apart purposedly (literally sealed), or that it is the natural order of things for them to be, would be very interesting. There really is a lot we still don't know and they may be remedied soon.

Another thing that's been in the back of my head since we saw the Wicker Man is how different magic users may have been during Gaiseric's time compared to now. That's a pretty big deal too. Watching the anime's first episode made me think again about the haunted tree and how the sacrificial ritual associated with it might have actually been used by real magic users to harness power (as opposed to crazy cultists). What I'm guessing is that not all witches were focused on nature and elemental magic back then. There might have been two or more factions, and the ones using "blood magic" may have been at the root of what is now the axis of evil: the Idea of Evil, God Hand and apostles. I'm very eager to learn more about this.

Also, since we were talking about apostles earlier, here's a food for thought: I don't think Guts will ever be in an apostle fight again that won't feature one of Griffith's five lieutenants, and that won't end with said lieutenant coming down.

Offline Rupert Sinclair

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #133 on: July 03, 2016, 06:13:48 PM »
Also, since we were talking about apostles earlier, here's a food for thought: I don't think Guts will ever be in an apostle fight again that won't feature one of Griffith's five lieutenants, and that won't end with said lieutenant coming down.

Except maybe Volkov, I think that one is owed. :beast:

Offline residentgrigo

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #134 on: July 03, 2016, 06:17:56 PM »
Am i the only one who was surprised how fast the Wicker Man implications were dropped by the core cast. I expected either Guts or Schierke to be left with lingering and visible doubts.
I also think that Aaz has a point and that Guts´ future can´t see many direct Apostle battles. Some of the New Falcons and their foot soldiers to warm up should be it. Maybe one member of the God Hand towards the very end. A height as a battle against the Sea God makes small skirmishes pointless and straining his body too often will make his deterioration health seem like a cliché.
PS: I totally see the Krysten Ritter resemblance and what if Volkov is the one who got away Rupert.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #135 on: July 03, 2016, 06:25:33 PM »
Except maybe Volkov, I think that one is owed. :beast:

Oh he'll go down for sure, but I don't expect that to be a serious, multi-episode fight. Guts will be mangling apostles right and left and Volkov will grab onto his arm with his mouth, just like old times. Then Guts will turn his head towards him and light the cannon. As Volkov shrieks and tries to understand what happened, he'll see the Dragon Slayer falling down on his miserable face. Oh yeah. :ubik:

Am i the only one who was surprised how fast the Wicker Man implications were dropped by the core cast. I expected either Guts or Schierke to be left with lingering and visible doubts.

Nah I think it makes sense, even just from a storyline perspective, to see it get addressed later. Schierke already knew about it and Guts is typically pragmatic about this kind of stuff, so they had no reason to openly question it. Especially since the dialogue between the other witches showed that Molda had acted improperly.

Offline Salem

Re: Episode 344
« Reply #136 on: July 03, 2016, 06:30:04 PM »
Oh he'll go down for sure, but I don't expect that to be a serious, multi-episode fight. Guts will be mangling apostles right and left and Volkov will grab onto his arm with his mouth, just like old times. Then Guts will turn his head towards him and light the cannon. As Volkov shrieks and tries to understand what happened, he'll see the Dragon Slayer falling down on his miserable face. Oh yeah. :ubik:

If that happens even remotely close to what you said, the goosebumps I got from reading your thoughts will be painfully full. 

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #137 on: July 03, 2016, 06:50:28 PM »
That probably was brought up lots of times but since I am new here, I am gonna ask it - What do you think would be the best outcome for Casca being sane again? Since Guts was babysitting her for 20 years now, it has to come to an end, but do we actually want this to end badly? I want Guts to get on the revenge path again, as many other people I believe, but does it have to be related to Casca? For me personally I would like to see her just staying on the island (assuming it doesn't get destroyed soon), recovering slowly but surely. I never liked her character, I've always seen her as a hypocritical burden rather than anything else. But if she stays and nothing bad happens, how would Guts go on killing spree once again? Will Elf King be responsible for that?

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #138 on: July 03, 2016, 07:16:18 PM »
What do you think would be the best outcome for Casca being sane again?

Guts and Casca resuming their romance and going together (and along with their friends) to Falconia, to face off with the one who took everything for them, and to save their son.

Since Guts was babysitting her for 20 years now, it has to come to an end, but do we actually want this to end badly?

Yes? I mean, Casca is one of my favorite characters in Berserk, and I think it's high time she comes back to herself. It'll be a huge boost to the group dynamics and will be character development heaven, especially for Guts.

I want Guts to get on the revenge path again, as many other people I believe, but does it have to be related to Casca? For me personally I would like to see her just staying on the island (assuming it doesn't get destroyed soon), recovering slowly but surely.

Casca is not going to stay behind on Elfhelm while Guts just goes to get his revenge alone. Casca has been essential to Guts' survival until now, and there is no reason for that to stop. Without her, he'd have died inside the armor the first time he wore it and every single after that. His love for Casca is the only reason he's still alive. The Beast of Darkness isn't a productive force inside Guts' mind, it's more like a pulsion of death. The scenario you envision where he yields in to his rage and hatred only results in death for him and nothing else. The path to victory will be alongside his friends, and his lover. And it might not be primarily a path of revenge either, even if that will obviously play a part in it.

I never liked her character, I've always seen her as a hypocritical burden rather than anything else.

Your loss. A hypocritical burden? I don't understand.

But if she stays and nothing bad happens, how would Guts go on killing spree once again? Will Elf King be responsible for that?

I don't get the question.

Offline Feeblecursedone

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #139 on: July 03, 2016, 07:32:46 PM »
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You're wrong, Guts has used his crossbow since volume 26. When they fought their way out of Vritannis, for example.

Er? I cannot think of the single situation where he used a crossbow after he donned the armour for first time. Then again, I havent read that part in a while, so I may have forgotten.


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Your loss.

Hah!  :iva:

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Except maybe Volkov

So its Volkov not Borkoff? I assume the latter is bad translation? In any case, I think Guts may kill Grunbeld too and not just Volkov, cause you know, the whole Dragon Slayer thingy ( Grunbeld being a crystal dragon )

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he'll see the Dragon Slayer falling down on his miserable face. Oh yeah.

But but, Volkov is cool  :judo: He's like the most featured non-main apostle.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2016, 07:49:32 PM by Feeblecursedone »

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #140 on: July 03, 2016, 07:37:16 PM »
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Without her, he'd have died inside the armor the first time he wore it and every single after that. His love for Casca is the only reason he's still alive.
I disagree with that. She is important to him but to say that he owes her not being devoured by the beast of darkness isn't really true, unless there's something i am missing. Schierke is keeping Guts sane, Moonlight Boy aswell, occassionally.

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Your loss. A hypocritical burden? I don't understand.

Well, that is something i would like to elaborate in a different thread but to be honest I am not feeling doing it anytime soon for various reasons. In short she was mad about Guts following his dream and ignoring her, but at the same time she chose Griffith over Guts later on. I understand it's not the same but every choice comes from something and I don't believe her love for Guts was actually really that big.

She is important to Guts, but the way she was set up and was useless for so long, I, as a viewer dislike her. I hope you understand that.

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I don't get the question.

The question was based on "if Casca stays on the island, what other thing will drive Guts mad"


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Guts and Casca resuming their romance and going together (and along with their friends) to Falconia, to face off with the one who took everything for them, and to save their son.

That is kinda cheap in my opinion. The child has no relevance so far, he was just a tool for a greater being to come. We will get something more about him (officially we almost know nothing), that is for sure, but for now he isn't that much relevant to think that he needs to be saved. We need to know if he even needs to be saved.

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Yes? I mean, Casca is one of my favorite characters in Berserk, and I think it's high time she comes back to herself. It'll be a huge boost to the group dynamics and will be character development heaven, especially for Guts.

I am not saying that this isn't true, but Guts' party is already large. I can see someone leaving soon for any reason, we have to wait and see.

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #141 on: July 03, 2016, 07:53:46 PM »
Er? I cannot think of the single situation where he used a crossbow after he donned the armour for first time. Then again, I havent read that part in a while, so I may have forgotten.

Episode 265 is one example.

So its Volkov not Borkoff? I assume the latter is bad translation?

I'm the one who came up with the name "Borkoff" in the thread for episode 235, after he was first named by Locus, right here on SK.net. I just made it up because I couldn't think of anything better. Then a while after I found out that it perfectly corresponds to the Russian name Volkov, and I've been telling people ever since. Unfortunately, bad spellings tend to stick much faster and long than correct ones for some reason... But yeah, while we don't have an official confirmation of the spelling, I believe the proper one is Volkov. It's also much cooler.

In any case, I think Guts may kill Grunbeld too and not just Volkov, cause you know, the whole Dragon Slayer thingy ( Grunbeld being a crystal dragon )

Yeah yeah man we get it the Dragon Slayer will be used to kill a dragon. I think you've mentioned it like 5 times since you registered. :ganishka: Don't worry, everyone agrees, it will be cool to see the sword live up to its name. I even hope Guts will drop a line like "I wish Godot could have seen this!" in the process.

I disagree with that. She is important to him but to say that he owes her not being devoured by the beast of darkness isn't really true, unless there's something i am missing. Schierke is keeping Guts sane, Moonlight Boy aswell, occassionally.

Well you are missing something, obviously. I suggest you re-read those parts of the story and pay attention to what is the catalyst for Guts to regain his senses, every single time (hint: it's Casca).

Well, that is something i would like to elaborate in a different thread but to be honest I am not feeling doing it anytime soon for various reasons. In short she was mad about Guts following his dream and ignoring her, but at the same time she chose Griffith over Guts later on. I understand it's not the same but every choice comes from something and I don't believe her love for Guts was actually really that big. She is important to Guts, but the way she was set up and was useless for so long, I, as a viewer dislike her. I hope you understand that.

No, I don't understand that, and I also think you don't understand her character well. When she told Guts to go and that she would stay with Griffith, it was out of sacrifice. Both her and Guts wanted to stay with Griffith, out of loyalty. But Casca knew that Guts' heart was elsewhere, that he wanted to be his own man. She knew how important this was to him. So she told him to leave her and be free, even though what she really, desperately wanted was to leave with him. She was trying to sacrifice herself (living an unfulfilling life) out of love for Guts.

The question was based on "if Casca stays on the island, what other thing will drive Guts mad"

...But... Casca isn't driving Guts mad? I still don't get it.

That is kinda cheap in my opinion. The child has no relevance so far, he was just a tool for a greater being to come. We will get something more about him (officially we almost know nothing), that is for sure, but for now he isn't that much relevant to think that he needs to be saved. We need to know if he even needs to be saved.

I don't get your objection. You asked what people's opinion for the best outcome was. I gave you mine. The boy is their son, I'm pretty sure that's very highly relevant to them, and it's all the reason they'll need to want to save him once they learn about his condition.

I am not saying that this isn't true, but Guts' party is already large. I can see someone leaving soon for any reason, we have to wait and see.

The reason Guts' party exists is because of Casca. The most important member of that party, to Guts, is definitely Casca.

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #142 on: July 03, 2016, 08:09:43 PM »
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Well you are missing something, obviously. I suggest you re-read those parts of the story and pay attention to what is the catalyst for Guts to regain his senses, every single time (hint: it's Casca).

What I meant is that he would kill her anyway, if not for Schierke. He wants to be sane for Casca, but Casca isn't actually the one to "take him back".

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...But... Casca isn't driving Guts mad? I still don't get it.

Maybe my choice of words was poor... if Casca gets sane and okay, how will Guts get back on his revenge path? We all can say that he doesn't really feel the hatred now, it's not so important now. I would like to see something happening to Casca, not dying in particular, just something that will make Guts mad/sad. Something that was foreshadowed by SK long time ago.

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The reason Guts' party exists is because of Casca. The most important member of that party, to Guts, is definitely Casca.

To Guts. She won't be useful even after recovering since everyone is a lot stronger and she can't fight without getting properly trained. Guts needs a power-up to defeat his enemies, not just Casca and I don't see Berserk as a simple story where power of love defeats the ancient evil. It has to be more complex than that.

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I don't get your objection. You asked what people's opinion for the best outcome was. I gave you mine. The boy is their son, I'm pretty sure that's very highly relevant to them, and it's all the reason they'll need to want to save him once they learn about his condition.

Their child isn't even important now, he doesn't exist for now. We are just assuming things, we can't tell for sure what his role will be.



Offline Imperator Hanseatic

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #143 on: July 03, 2016, 08:11:23 PM »
That probably was brought up lots of times but since I am new here, I am gonna ask it

There are indeed threads for discussing such things in Character Cove and Speculation Nation and it's all a quick search away! :)

Since Guts was babysitting her for 20 years now

I'm going to assume you meant 2 years instead of 20.

What do you think would be the best outcome for Casca being sane again?

As far as "best outcome" there are many people with differing answers to this, as it's a subjective question about a topic that is mostly speculation. For what it's worth though, my "best outcome" would be Casca rejoining the group as a competent fighter after dealing with her trauma and adjusting to the new world. The group contains two people perfectly suited to whip her back into fighting shape in Serpico and Azan though Roderick could also be serviceable in this regard as he has shown himself to be at least competent. The group will almost certainly be leaving Skellig with upgrades, and this could easily include new magical weapons, one of which could be used by Casca. I will refrain from going into further detail as this is not really the place I think.

Schierke is keeping Guts sane

Schierke is keeping Guts in control. Even then as Aazealh has already said, Casca is in his thoughts at those times.

That is kinda cheap in my opinion. The child has no relevance so far, he was just a tool for a greater being to come. We will get something more about him (officially we almost know nothing), that is for sure, but for now he isn't that much relevant to think that he needs to be saved. We need to know if he even needs to be saved.

Never underestimate the primal love a mother can have for her child. Especially if she loves the father. Does she need any other reason to want to try to save the child?

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #144 on: July 03, 2016, 08:20:14 PM »
What I meant is that he would kill her anyway, if not for Schierke. He wants to be sane for Casca, but Casca isn't actually the one to "take him back".

Without Casca, Schierke couldn't bring him back. Casca does not magically intervene to take him out of the armor's Od, no (duh). But she is what is used to bring him back to his senses. By Schierke or by the Moonlight Boy.

Maybe my choice of words was poor... if Casca gets sane and okay, how will Guts get back on his revenge path? We all can say that he doesn't really feel the hatred now, it's not so important now. I would like to see something happening to Casca, not dying in particular, just something that will make Guts mad/sad. Something that was foreshadowed by SK long time ago.

There are a myriad of ways the story could go that would set the group on a path to Falconia. Like I said above, it doesn't even have to be revenge. Stopping Griffith could mean stopping a worldwide catastrophe. It could also be to save their son. I've talked about this a million times before so I'm not going to go on, but you get the idea. And contrary to what you say, Guts still feels a strong hatred for Griffith, he just sits on it because he has other priorities. The idea that Guts absolutely needs to feel bad for something to happen seems extremely simplistic to me, almost puerile really.

To Guts. She won't be useful even after recovering since everyone is a lot stronger and she can't fight without getting properly trained. Guts needs a power-up to defeat his enemies, not just Casca and I don't see Berserk as a simple story where power of love defeats the ancient evil. It has to be more complex than that.

Yeah, to Guts, the main character and the leader of the group. That doesn't count to you? Also, you're assuming a lot regarding her fighting prowess. I'm willing to bet you'll be proven wrong. As for the complexity of Berserk, clearly from this discussion I don't think you quite grasp it. :iva:

Their child isn't even important now, he doesn't exist for now. We are just assuming things, we can't tell for sure what his role will be.

Oh, you mean you haven't yet realized the Boy in the Moonlight is their son? I see. :rakshas:

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #145 on: July 03, 2016, 08:35:47 PM »
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Oh, you mean you haven't yet realized the Boy in the Moonlight is their son? I see. :rakshas:

Nice assumption. Let me know when this is actually confirmed and not just a theory.

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Yeah, to Guts, the main character and the leader of the group. That doesn't count to you? Also, you're assuming a lot regarding her fighting prowess. I'm willing to bet you'll be proven wrong. As for the complexity of Berserk, clearly from this discussion I don't think you quite grasp it.

I don't grasp what exactly? That Guts is still underpowered compared to the Godhand and he needs a real power, not some love shenanigans? It's not a shounen, but Guts will fight again and again and he needs a lot more, curing Casca will be only a small step in that regard I believe. He will get some confidence and possibly something more from seeing her being normal, but that won't make him strong enough to kill the antagonist.

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There are a myriad of ways the story could go that would set the group on a path to Falconia. Like I said above, it doesn't even have to be revenge. Stopping Griffith could mean stopping a worldwide catastrophe. It could also be to save their son. I've talked about this a million times before so I'm not going to go on, but you get the idea. And contrary to what you say, Guts still feels a strong hatred for Griffith, he just sits on it because he has other priorities. The idea that Guts absolutely needs to feel bad for something to happen seems extremely simplistic to me, almost puerile really.

Guts never really cared about the world itself. He is less "edgy" now, but to make him care about the whole world seems almost impossible without involving his own agenda. He is not that kind of a hero. The best option I can see for that is him killing the Godhand just because they stand in his way to Griffith and thus saving everything.

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #146 on: July 03, 2016, 08:57:30 PM »
Nice assumption. Let me know when this is actually confirmed and not just a theory.

Oh sure thing, I will. It won't be long now. :ubik:

I don't grasp what exactly? That Guts is still underpowered compared to the Godhand and he needs a real power, not some love shenanigans? It's not a shounen, but Guts will fight again and again and he needs a lot more, curing Casca will be only a small step in that regard I believe. He will get some confidence and possibly something more from seeing her being normal, but that won't make him strong enough to kill the antagonist.

You don't grasp why this isn't a shounen. Why Guts doesn't just need a "power-up" (and using video game lingo in itself is already reductive, as far as I'm concerned). Your focus on Casca being useful in a fight (which I have no doubt she will be) and your dismissal until now of the importance of her presence at Guts' side are examples of this. Yes, Guts is fighting against much stronger enemies. That's a core aspect of the story. He'll never be as strong as Femto. Never. But he'll win regardless. He wasn't as fast as Rochine, he wasn't as powerful as the Slug Count, he wasn't even an appetizer to the Sea God. But he beat them all. Maybe he'll be given some new equipment in Elfhelm. Maybe the Berserk's armor will be modified to help him in battle. But that's not more important than Casca's return. It's not more important to him, and it's not more important to the story. And if you think otherwise, well, you're going to be disappointed.

Now that being said, I don't understand why you think those things are opposites and can't happen concurrently? I mean it's not either one or the other. Casca will probably return and Guts will probably get some help, as will all the others. It seems to me that you're the one trying to simplify things here and for no reason.

Guts never really cared about the world itself. He is less "edgy" now, but to make him care about the whole world seems almost impossible without involving his own agenda. He is not that kind of a hero. The best option I can see for that is him killing the Godhand just because they stand in his way to Griffith and thus saving everything.

Side note: "God Hand" is written as two separate words, just like "Dragon Slayer". Anyway, Guts' agenda is his revenge. But that doesn't mean there won't be more to it. You say he's not the kind of hero to care about the world, but he's grown a lot over the years, and he will continue to do so. Knowing there's a lot at stake, he might just respond with "Alright, I've got unfinished business with this lot anyway" and that'll be it. It doesn't mean the stakes won't weigh in the balance. And for the record, I don't think each member of the God Hand will be lined up in a corridor for him to defeat on the way to Griffith. This isn't a video game.

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #147 on: July 03, 2016, 09:03:56 PM »
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Guts never really cared about the world itself. He is less "edgy" now, but to make him care about the whole world seems almost impossible without involving his own agenda. He is not that kind of a hero. The best option I can see for that is him killing the Godhand just because they stand in his way to Griffith and thus saving everything.

The problem is, this is not pre- Hawk teen Guts anymore who has no one to care about and is only wandering the battlefields for money and food. He has genuine friends now, a woman, and their very survival is connected to the outcome of this " war " . He has no choice. He has to attempt to stop IOE/Griffith/God Hand. And stopping them means stopping something worldwide.  He also changed, he'll never be a goodie-goodie, no, but he evolved farm from the demon shell of a kid/man that he used to be in past.


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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #148 on: July 03, 2016, 09:19:16 PM »
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Side note: "God Hand" is written as two separate words, just like "Dragon Slayer".

Thanks, I'll remember that.

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Oh sure thing, I will. It won't be long now. :ubik:

It's just not really cool to take any assumption as a given. It's very plausible but not confirmed.

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You don't grasp why this isn't a shounen. Why Guts doesn't just need a "power-up" (and using video game lingo in itself is already reductive, as far as I'm concerned). Your focus on Casca being useful in a fight (which I have no doubt she will be) and your dismissal until now of the importance of her presence at Guts' side are examples of this. Yes, Guts is fighting against much stronger enemies. That's a core aspect of the story. He'll never be as strong as Femto. Never. But he'll win regardless. He wasn't as fast as Rochine, he wasn't as powerful as the Slug Count, he wasn't even an appetizer to the Sea God. But he beat them all. Maybe he'll be given some new equipment in Elfhelm. Maybe the Berserk's armor will be modified to help him in battle. But that's not more important than Casca's return. It's not more important to him, and it's not more important to the story. And if you think otherwise, well, you're going to be disappointed.

Now that being said, I don't understand why you think those things are opposites and can't happen concurrently? I mean it's not either one or the other. Casca will probably return and Guts will probably get some help, as will all the others. It seems to me that you're the one trying to simplify things here and for no reason.

I keep in mind that Guts is not only for killing some monsters, he has his feelings and his desires aswell, yes. I am just trying to see the big picture where Guts has to be strong enough to fulfill his path of revenge (because in the end it is the story about revenge). We have to remember that he is actually getting weaker, losing his humanity and that kind of stuff.

 And no, we don't actually need Berserk armor getting stronger, do we? Guts already does too much even with its potential drawback. If you mean Beast of Darkness, that is what keeps Guts interesting in my opinion. One of the most important themes in Berserk is the struggle. He has to fear himself, think about how far he can go until the end. If he gets healed of any drawbacks on the elf island, well, the story will suffer a lot from that.

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And for the record, I don't think each member of the God Hand will be lined up in a corridor for him to defeat on the way to Griffith. This isn't a video game.

Let's not be silly, if story demands them being dead, they will die in one way or another.





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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #149 on: July 03, 2016, 09:28:43 PM »
It's just not really cool to take any assumption as a given. It's very plausible but not confirmed.

I'm 100% certain it is the case, based on what's in the manga. It's much more than "an assumption". Again, this isn't the thread for it, but if you want to talk about it via PM, I'll be happy to.

I keep in mind that Guts is not only for killing some monsters, he has his feelings and his desires aswell, yes. I am just trying to see the big picture where Guts has to be strong enough to fulfill his path of revenge (because in the end it is the story about revenge). We have to remember that he is actually getting weaker, losing his humanity and that kind of stuff.

Well I think you're not seeing the big picture if you think Casca is unimportant, and that Guts would be just fine with leaving her behind to "go get his revenge". And I think Berserk is more than a story about revenge.

And no, we don't actually need Berserk armor getting stronger, do we? Guts already does too much even with its potential drawback. If you mean Beast of Darkness, that is what keeps Guts interesting in my opinion. One of the most important themes in Berserk is the struggle. He has to fear himself, think about how far hecan go until the end. If he gets healed of any drawbacks on the elf island, well, the story will suffer a lot from that.

Who said anything about it "getting stronger"? I mean the Berserk's armor only lets its wearer use strength beyond their body's natural limits, so that's not even really possible. What I meant was something more in line with the tasliman Flora carved inside the chestplate. As for the Beast of Darkness, I've already said in this thread that I don't believe for a minute that it will be "cured", since it's become such a central theme for Guts. It could, however, be tamed in a way that would make it more useful for Guts (Guts has already started this process). Casca seems like the ideal vehicle for that, along some much needed reflection on Guts' part. The King of the Flower Storm may also help, obviously.