Poll

 What did you think of the third episode of the 2016 TV series?

It was great.
5 (5.9%)
Some problems, but enjoyable.
12 (14.1%)
It was bad, but had some redeeming features.
36 (42.4%)
I hated it.
32 (37.6%)

Total Members Voted: 84

Voting closed: July 30, 2016, 01:31:58 PM

Author Topic: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 3  (Read 8730 times)

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Offline Aazealh

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2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 3
« on: July 15, 2016, 01:31:58 PM »
This is the official discussion thread for the third episode of the 2016 TV series. Post your thoughts, impressions and reviews as you see fit.

Offline Feeblecursedone

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 3
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2016, 02:11:41 PM »
So we are back to frying pan sound effects ( even ghosts this time ) and terrible choped metal music. Boar apostle was shoved into an area that doesnt exist to serve I guess as an introduction to apostles but it failes at that miserably. This guy was literally biggest cannon fodder in manga, why in the world did they think shoving him instead of snake baron or count was better? His background was an attempt to showcase how one becomes an apostle, but it fails there as well. Beherit is barely hinted at, and the flashing images that change every milisecond didnt really help either. It way too fast for what they were trying to accomplish ( to explain it to new fans )

Now they're pushing towards Femto's reincarnation like mad and the next episode has pieces that occur before Farnese's kidnapping and the whole chase.

If this was written by Miura, I can hardly believe it.


Offline residentgrigo

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 3
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2016, 02:32:39 PM »
I hated it. I never looked up who did episodes of letīs say Game of Throes before watching and judged every endeavor on itīs own. The same applies here and whoever was responsible (how was Miura credited?) made 22 minutes of downright unwatchable television. The worst one so far and i like nothing about ep.3. The scene transitions were the worst, i donīt even know what to say about the animation for both randomly intermixed styles (2D Farnese had visible nipples btw. just without color) and i can best describe the experience as a sad parody of Berserk. I strongly hope that this was rock bottom and that we will again reach the lofty hight of ep.2 (3,5/10). Shame on Hakusensha for thinking that fans would blindly support just any unartistic trash out of brand loyalty. 2/10
Forgot: The use of music was the most cohesive so far, minus the possession scene.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 03:02:15 PM by residentgrigo »

Offline Nothingwillbewong

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 3
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2016, 02:40:57 PM »
Episode feels like Berserk atleast... It was enjoyable, especially the last part with the king dying the music actually fit the situation really well.

Offline Goosper

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 3
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2016, 02:48:54 PM »
Honestly, I thought this was much better. Maybe I might be biased just because I knew beforehand that Miura wrote it, but I had a much better experience watching this episode then the two previous ones. Seems like Miura felt the need to step in when they didn't explain Guts' war against the apostles. The apostle himself wasn't really an amazing character (mostly because he's not fleshed out as much as Snake Baron and the Count) but I think that he served his purpose well enough. I'm not saying he had an amazing backstory, but it was an interesting direction to take the Boar Apostle. Other than that it mostly follows the manga (besides the setting) and basically the rest of the episode was a speeding bullet to Femto's reincarnation and the Kushan invasion.

That said, I did have some problems with it. Like Feeblecursedone said the use of the beherit wasn't really explained well. The fight scene wasn't amazing but I feel like this rendition of Guts is either stupid or just incompetent, because during that whole monologue about human meat from the Apostle, Manga Guts would have blown him away with the cannon, instead of flopping around like a ragdoll in it's mouth. Another thing, the monologue about human meat from the apostle went on way too long, and the voice actor was starting to get on my nerves. Also, I don't know if I'm the only one, but the Possessed Horse sequence just felt so awkward (and I don't mean being an uncomfortable scene.) It was weirdly silent when Farnese was running away from the horse and the voice actor for the horse was making some goofy ass noises in the background and the whole thing was animated poorly. It felt like a parody of itself and I honestly think it could have been cut from the episode altogether.

Offline Patrick

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 3
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2016, 03:02:13 PM »
I personally liked this episode more than the first two. As Nothingwillbebewong also said, it felt like Berserk to me.

Offline Eluvei

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 3
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2016, 03:08:40 PM »
I personally liked this episode more than the first two. As Nothingwillbebewong also said, it felt like Berserk to me.

I don't know, to me it felt more like something you'd find by typing "Epic Berzerk AMV" on Youtube. I'm done with this show. :daiba:

Offline Salem

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 3
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2016, 03:14:25 PM »
I bet you guys didn't even know there are different grades of meat.   :schnoz:

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 3
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2016, 03:18:46 PM »
This is actually the first episode I watched without any skipping or whatever, because I was interested how Miura is involved with it. It was complete garbage.

At this point this anime doesn't exist for me anymore. I am not even talking about how "funny" it is in its mediocrity, it's just plain unwatchable.

Offline Inga-no-Nagare

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 3
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2016, 03:34:29 PM »
Story-wise, it was not bad, I think. The apostle was generic, very forgettable, but still, it was all quite Berserk.

The visuals sucked big time. No memorably pretty parts, while still lots of really clunky animation and ugly 3D models.

But the one part that drives me nuts is that with this ep they established, without a shadow of a doubt, that whatever Guts' sword hits, be it flesh or spirit or warm butter, it's gonna sound like a fucking CLANNNG!!!

Offline Hanma_Baki

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 3
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2016, 03:38:58 PM »
^yeah no matter how stupid or ignorant one might be those weird CLANGS! shouldnt go unnoticed.

And seriously that whole bit about meat and the apostles voice almost made me drop it, was w/o a doubt the most painful moment outta this show this far.

I can totally see how Miura tried to fix this mess of a show, but man! It's just so incredibly poorly executed on ALL aspects that its not even worth making fun of anymore. I'm so embarrassed and heartbroken by this whole thing. Yeah I'm done as well. If I happen to be in a particularly masochistic mood I'll probably watch it but ANY little hope for at least "decent" material there might've been is forever gone.

Offline Earthlingzing

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 3
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2016, 04:16:49 PM »
I think the different grades of meat thing was very dumb and a waste of time, but the hawk premonition stuff at the end made up for it.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 04:35:31 PM by Earthlingzing »

Offline MrFlibble

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 3
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2016, 04:28:16 PM »
This is one sucked more than the last one, if they had to insert apostle filler in this episode why pick the swine apostle? Why not the Boy from the PS2 game, or the Count? Or a new apostle design? Having a slow lumbering blob of shit with the agility to climb support beams looks stupid. The editing and timing is atrocious, the quick duel between Guts and Serpico looked as if they were following a script, in the manga it's clear they are trying to catch eachother off guard, here it appears choreographed . The most baffling decision I think was adding the revelations arc at the end, they really should have waited until the week after, it felt far, far too rushed. "Heresarebelationpeoplehad,here's midland here's Charlotteheres thekinghesdeadisthedecrrpitkingcanon?whocareslookkushaninvasionkbye!"
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 11:46:32 PM by Wenliinvictus »

Offline ApostleBob

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 3
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2016, 05:39:16 PM »
Some decent ideas in this episode...executed poorly. The Apostle looks like barely any effort went into it, and all the fighting is off screen with blood and body parts flying into frame. The sound track and sound effects are terrible as usual. The apostle has an interesting, if hard to follow back story at least. And Farnese's possession is confusing as hell and awkwardly executed in an erotic way.

And then Credits roll over Guts and Serpico exchanging blows.

It's bold of them to to include the horse into here though.

Offline Walter

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 3
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2016, 06:43:39 PM »
Haven't had time to post my impressions yet, but I've got something better instead:


Berserk (2016) Anime Impressions - Episode 3 (43m)

We discuss the new scenario written by Miura and how it stacks up alongside all the other problems with this new adaptation.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Jemuller

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 3
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2016, 06:56:10 PM »
I know that I am not going to say anything new or something that had not been said before. Nonetheless, right now, I'm, personally, so offended that I believe there are no words in the human vocabulary to articulate appropriately what I feel about this episode.  :beast:

I am done.

Offline Cyrus Jong

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 3
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2016, 07:39:08 PM »
Well, that was better than the previous episode. But "better" does not mean good.

The "completely original story" supposedly penned by Miura did nothing for me. So the pig apostle liked the lady because she was nice to him and...what? What brought him to the level of despair needed for the Beherit to activate? What prompted him to sacrifice her? Was it because she showed fear of him? What made her fearful of him? When the fuck was she ever nice to him? Was she even the sacrifice? You can't just show a handful of images without context and expect the audience to understand what you're trying to get across. If Miura really wrote this, then he either has no idea how to write for television, he didn't give a damn about it, or the animators and/or director implemented it poorly. Considering how the most faithful bits of the anime still fare poorly, I'm inclined to believe it's the third.

I don't even know why they decided to make this particular apostle such a badass. This guy was like, the lowest of the low of apostles. Guts killed him absolutely no problem when he got his hands on the Dragon Slayer, so it's a bit eye-rolling to see him give our hero so much trouble. They really could have, should have used a more impressive beast.

Things got better after he died, if only because we got to see more direct material from the manga translated faithfully. But it was still botched. These guys have no idea how to create atmosphere or generate suspense. And because they don't know how to do any of that, nothing they do feels particularly climatic. Without emphasizing Farnese's growing terror or Guts' growing rage as he battles things that should not exist, the scene with the horse lacks the dramatic impact it had in the manga. Likewise, for the section building up to the Kushan invasion. Those pages in the manga were absolutely masterful in how they built tension, with Midland shown to be declining due to plague, the king dying cold and alone in his bed, the bells sounding off his passing to the ears of Owen, Anna, and Charlotte, the people unsure about what will happen...and one lone child noticing how the mountains are moving. It was all worked together to slowly build up to something, making the sudden appearance of the Kushan army with their war elephants in tow unexpectedly terrifying. But here...the rushed pacing, frantic cutting, and the music that suddenly starts blaring before we even see the war elephant just doesn't feel meaningful.

Frankly, even if this was 100% faithful to the source material, even if it made no cuts, this adaptation would still suck. These people know nothing about telling a story.

Other things to observe...

  • "This is a real, preserved human being!" Thank you for your keen insight, Captain Obvious.
  • Farnese has no nipples, but we see she has pubic hair. Nice going with the censorship, geniuses.
  • Guts took a really deep bite on the leg from the apostle, but walks off as if nothing happens by the end. Healing from an injury like that with elf dust is a bit hard to swallow...and they haven't even introduced the healing properties of elf dust yet!
  • What the fuck was with the credits? The music was audibly distracting when played over dialogue, the scrolling text gets in the way of the scene that's playing out, and there was still five more minutes to go! Seriously, what was the point of this?

Offline Aazealh

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 3
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2016, 07:41:30 PM »
I had a decidedly hard time forming final thoughts on this episode, but my opinion hasn't changed from when I was watching it. I didn't like it. Many things bothered me with it, and I'll say right now that I can't believe Miura wrote the new stuff as it was shown. I'm sure he gave them pointers on what parts to recycle and came up with the Boar Apostle's alternate story... but I've been reading his work for 15 years now and this is nowhere near the quality he consistently produces. So I can't believe he spent more than an hour on this, even though the credits list "original story by Kentarou Miura" (same as for the first episode, incidentally). What this "original story" struck me as is a quickly put-together side story to introduce the core concept of apostles to the viewer. A piece of Miura-branded duct tape to hold down the mess that is this series.

But I guess the real problem with this remains the execution, from the drawing or 3D rendering to the animation, voice acting, music, sound effects or direction. It's all just terrible and it would ruin the best story in the world even if it was served on a silver platter. In fact it's exactly what it's doing. Something buttonmasher mentioned in the chat earlier was that they edit to avoid depicting things they can't animate (either due to lack of skills or money), and that worsens the already terrible direction. This is absolutely right and I already commented on it in previous episodes, but this was even more obvious here. That means even the most straightforward, simple action scene looks awkward instead of badass. Not that we didn't already know it, but there's no redemption for this series. Even if it follows the manga page by page and line by line, it'll screw it up. For those who still hope it'll get better once we're in the thick of it, I can guarantee that it won't.

Anyway, I took down notes as I watched and I don't feel like editing them down, so here they are below for whoever cares.

- Crunchyroll messed up on the translation for "elves", going for "fae" instead.
- Puck casually speaks of his past with the traveling entertainers but a new viewer probably wouldn't understand the reference.
- Big ass CLANGs as Guts hits fucking ghosts with his sword. GHOSTS.
- The specter that appears to touch Farnese's face looks so low budget.
- "Count Lansdown".
- The horse falls down on its own, no specters possessing it.
- The pack of wild dogs is now supposed to be the former huntings dogs of the count.
- Guts invites Farnese to take refuge inside the mansion, along with the horse (led by Puck) who despite falling down pretty badly is just fine and hasn't been harmed by the monstrous dogs at all, and then Guts hits the wall on the side with his hand and that makes the entrance collapse in a completely unrealistic way.
- So this was a hunting land and there's lots of deer heads stuck on the walls. To accomodate that the land around the mansion has actually been changed from a desolate rocky terrain in the manga to woods.
- We see Puck say a prayer for the dead animals, "Oh Divine Lord, show mercy." Extremely awkward translation given the relationship between elves and the Holy See. It's nonsensical.
- There's also a woman's head stuck on the wall, stuffed like the deer heads but neither Puck nor Guts realize what it is at first.
- Serpico faces the dogs. Ok, why not... He shouldn't be some calm during his first meeting with monstrous creatures, but I mean at this point...
- The dogs bursting through the mansion's doors reminded me of Resident Evil. "Stop Jill Farnese, don't open that door!"
- The fucking clangs my god why. WHY.
- Farnese's meeting with the Boar Apostle is... very strange. It's basically a completely different character, almost a charming fellow at first. Then he goes weird all of a sudden, as if remembering he's a flesh-eating monster. Ok sure. Then he gets pissed that Guts is killing the dogs because he's their guardian and they're his family. As if wanting to kill a Branded man wasn't enough.
- The apostle has an old man's voice, which is weird. I don't like it, and I don't think it fits the character.
- The apostle tells Guts he remembers him from the Eclipse but it looks like he's talking to Farnese because of the way the scene is framed. It's 100% sure a new viewer will be confused.
- The apostle's transformation is not shown, it happens silently off-screen while Guts and Farnese talk to each other, even though they're literally one meter away from the apostle.
- The apostle's 3D model looks like absolute shit, and I guess he's more of a weird dog apostle here anyway.
- Guts fights pitifully and ends up with his leg half-eaten in the mouth of the apostle. Given how bad it looks as the apostle keeps crunching on it, Guts should be a one-legged man after that.
- So far Guts has been about as non-exceptional a fighter as possible. He was immediately overwhelmed by the tree in episode 1, got captured by the H.I.C.K.s after a poor show of strength in episode 2 (not justified like it was in the manga), and here is at the mercy of the apostle in seconds after his sword gets stuck in a wooden beam...
- "Humans who oppose us are just food", says the apostle. So humans who don't oppose him are friends? And what other humans have been opposing "them" exactly? What a crock of shit.
- The apostle spends a loooong time talking about human meat and its tastes, and how it has grades... It's completely overdone, and I'm NOT talking about meat here.
- Guts only survives because Puck touches the dead girl's head and that angers the apostle who rushes to stop him and carelessly lets Guts fall in the process.
- We see like a 2 seconds flashback of the Eclipse as Puck feels Guts' emotions right after feeling a messy flashback of the apostle's past. New viewers are guaranteed to be confused, again.
- One hit and the thing is dying. We get a quick but messy explanation about the stuffed woman who was the only one nice to him. He had a beherit and presumably sacrificed her, then half-ate her, then used his inexistent expertise as a superb taxidermist to create a perfect stuffed rendition. None of it makes much sense.
- Anyway, the scene of Guts shooting arrows at the Snake Baron for information about the God Hand takes place here. It's futile and he just kills the apostle.
- Meanwhile Farnese runs away and is faced with the possessed horse, and they linger on the scene just long enough to make it awkward. Great. The voice acting is especially bad, but otherwise it's alright I guess.
- Then they play some romantic music as she gets possessed and gets on top of Guts, asking him to slice her in half. The scene is badly edited.
- Serpico has apparently been fighting all night as well (that's a very short night by the way).
- Serpico's voice is annoying. They talk and exchange a slash during the ending credits... The scene is ruined by the way it's edited. Completely different vibe from how it's done in the manga. Guts isn't turning around, etc.
- We get the beginning of episode 126 told in the cheapest way possible. Still drawings that any amateur could produce on which the camera slides painfully. After we rush through the revelations with Raban being in Wyndham instead of Owen and talking with Foss. We don't get to actually see the Falcon of Light in dreams or anything... The kid in Wyndham says "the mountain is moving" but we see elephants as if they're standing on the city's walls...
- Next episode shows that Casca still has black skin (as long as it's not in flashbacks I guess?), Guts does return to Godot's place and sees Rickert there. I guess the Beast of Darkness will be introduced in the cave.

Offline DANGERDOOOOM

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 3
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2016, 08:01:39 PM »
The horse rape scene was laughable. The animation was so scattered and complete garbage. I'm starting to think i prefer the half CGI half drawn technique more. Where did they find these animators? In a kindergarten class? :mozgus:

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 3
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2016, 08:20:51 PM »
Still drawings that any amateur could produce on which the camera slides painfully.

It looks like they were trying to "imitate" or give some kind of homage to the old '97 anime.

I did not mind that much the background story for the apostle. The thing that bugged me more was the fight. (among a lot of other things of course)

But I still enjoyed it while at work.

As for Miura's involvement I'd say he sent them some kind of a script but they interpreted it in an awful way. Like you said, no way Miura wrote something like that.

Offline Walter

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 3
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2016, 08:34:34 PM »
I had a suspicion that I just verified.

Time on screen that Guts' appendage is in an apostle's mouth.

Berserk Golden Age Arc - Descent: Volkov: 1 minute 45 seconds. (1:24:04-1:25:49)

Berserk (2016) - Episode 3: Boar/Dog Apostle: 2 minutes 8 seconds. (10:04-12:12)

Yep.

Also I just noticed, as Guts is struggling to kill the apostle, Puck says "Do it like usual!" Which struck me as odd. He's only seen Guts fight skeletons and a tree so far, right? Are they getting their changes confused? So far he's been floored three times in three episodes: the possessed tree, the Holy Iron Chain Knights, and the apostle. Huh... Yeah, this isn't really the Guts that I know.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 3
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2016, 08:39:51 PM »
Beherit is barely hinted at, and the flashing images that change every milisecond didnt really help either. It way too fast for what they were trying to accomplish ( to explain it to new fans )

Indeed. A new viewer will now know that apostles exist, but still not quite get what they are or anything else about them. I guess this may be intentional, and they might reveal more as the show goes on (with clumsy flashbacks and whatnot). Anyway, I honestly have to say I'm completely baffled by their decision to focus on adapting the chapters of the Binding Chain and the Birth Festival. I just don't understand why they didn't start with the Black Swordsman arc or even the chapter of the Lost Children. Those are much more straightforward stories and would have been a lot easier to adapt. It's as mind-numblingly stupid as when Studio 4°C thought they could adapt the entire Golden Age arc into a single feature film.

I had a suspicion that I just verified.

Time on screen that Guts' appendage is in an apostle's mouth.

Berserk Golden Age Arc - Descent: Volkov: 1 minute 45 seconds. (1:24:04-1:25:49)

Berserk (2016) - Episode 3: Boar/Dog Apostle: 2 minutes 8 seconds. (10:04-12:12)

Yep, I couldn't help but cringe at this. An apostle crushing your leg in its mouth like that = you don't have a leg. And Guts just takes it, and then later just gets up like it's nothing. But I guess this is Bizarro Berserk anyway so that's just how it is in that world.

Also I just noticed, as Guts is struggling to kill the apostle, Puck says "Do it like usual!" Which struck me as odd. He's only seen Guts fight skeletons and a tree so far, right? Are they getting their changes confused? So far he's been floored three times in three episodes: the possessed tree, the Holy Iron Chain Knights, and the apostle. Huh... Yeah, this isn't really the Guts that I know.

Oh yeah, great catch. I'm so used to them being together that I didn't even notice, but it makes absolutely no sense in the context of this show. Ugh.

Offline Goosper

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 3
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2016, 08:51:37 PM »
Upon rewatch, I take back anything positive I said about this episode.

Offline Tabris

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 3
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2016, 09:10:33 PM »
I really had a hard time enjoying this episode. It just feels like such an absolute mess. Everything from the animation, to the sound design, to the dialogue and presentation. So many things about it are cringe worthy. It feels like somebodies fanfiction that was animated and edited at home for fun. Not at all something professional. It's embarrassing and depressing.

The essence of Berserk simply isn't there. The Guts from the manga is so utterly far removed in this series. It's a mashed together and rushed clusterfuck.

As for Miura's story, I feel like he wrote something really solid and they just did whatever the hell they felt 'best' with it. But it just feels so damn lifeless.

I don't feel as though I'm on the hatetrain bandwagon for this series. This is just how I genuinely felt after watching this episode. It's very disheartening as a huge fan.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 3
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2016, 09:17:59 PM »
I don't feel as though I'm on the hatetrain bandwagon for this series. This is just how I genuinely felt after watching this episode. It's very disheartening as a huge fan.

If there has to be a train I think we can all agree it's the Train of Sorrow, traveling on the Rails of Betrayal and taking us to Depression Station, last stop of Line D for Disappointment.