Poll

What did you think of the fourth episode of the 2016 TV series?

It was great.
15 (21.7%)
Some problems, but enjoyable.
34 (49.3%)
It was bad, but had some redeeming features.
14 (20.3%)
I hated it.
6 (8.7%)

Total Members Voted: 68

Author Topic: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 4  (Read 6036 times)

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Offline Aazealh

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2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 4
« on: July 22, 2016, 01:37:52 PM »
This is the official discussion thread for the fourth episode of the 2016 TV series. If anyone still cares about this, they're free to post their thoughts, impressions and reviews.

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 4
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2016, 01:57:54 PM »
So far I consider this episode the best one. The pacing was alright and we got some nice scene from the manga. The flashback were well place in my opinion considering what we saw so far. I'm really curious to see the next one.

Ps: I left my opinion on the animation out because well we know we're stuck with this one so it's pointless to mention it every episode.  :guts:

Offline Walter

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 4
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2016, 02:08:43 PM »


This aside, a decent episode, if a little boring despite this powerful section of the manga.

Godot's portrayal was what bugged me the most in this episode. Wrong personality. He's not a stereotypical old guy. He's a gruff, no-nonsense tough guy. But his voice actor, along with the neutered delivery of his speech, completely missed the unique edge to his personality.

The cave scene was the closest this anime has come to being decent, but it was still a choppy mess, with no time afforded for emotional resonance (or clarity). Props to them for including the  Beast (with Guts' voice actor), but that along with the Child, and the various Falcon flashbacks, I cannot imagine new viewers being able to follow any of this.

While watching, realizing how closely they're sticking to the manga, I actually wonder if that was a deal breaker for some studios, and how they landed these guys. If they wanted a STRICT interpretation, without much creative control being given to the studio, perhaps that's a reason we got these amateurs.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Earthlingzing

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 4
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2016, 02:37:53 PM »
Are they introducing Isidro again with the Bakiraka? And does anyone else think that Puck's voice is really weird?

I found it kind of funny how Guts' voice actor voiced the beast without any sound filters thrown in, I normally don't like that kind of thing but it felt strange seeing him talk to himself. I liked how they toned down the Mozgus stuff, overall this was a pretty good episode.

Offline Androyd

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 4
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2016, 02:46:55 PM »
Every episode I find myself wondering if a new viewer, someone unfamiliar with Berserk in any medium, can follow this story. It feels nonsensical. Like Rickert's reaction to Puck... just copied the manga scene but without the back story, it has to come across as strange.

 :beast: was cool though.

Offline ABH

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 4
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2016, 02:52:06 PM »
This was easily the highest quality episode done so far, for what that's worth. Pretty faithful to the manga, and that looks like it will continue into the next episode. Last week's episode had me to the point of giving up on the series - especially since it was supposedly written by Miura. This was watchable and sort of felt like Berserk.

Music was used more sparingly and appropriately. Not perfect, but at least for these 24 minutes, improved. Add-on to this, the director almost managed to create some atmosphere/tension in the cabin scenes, though overall it still feels rushed and mechanical too often. Like a JJ Abrams movie jumping from one scene to the next just going down a check list of what is supposed to happen.

I thought this episode had the best animation overall. The screenshot of that sorry excuse for an apostle was the one thing that stuck out to me while watching, but it's only a second or so. The 3D looked better, and the preview for next episode had a nice hand drawn scene of Guts entering the Kushan village. I'm thinking that any episode that features one-off models or settings is going to struggle, but we'll see at least acceptable quality elsewhere.

Beyond that, I am really concerned about fights with monsters. This is my first post here, but I saw praise for last week's animation elsewhere that I didn't really get. The entire fight with the new/ret conned dog Apostle was terrible and just made the thing mostly if not entirely incoherent (ignoring the issue of godawful writing/directing - Guts having his leg in a monsters mouth being chewed on with no blood etc.). The movies, which had much better 3D, botched the Zodd fight in my view. After last week I have almost no faith this series can show the fight scenes that are ahead with Mozgus and his goons, though maybe I'll be surprised.

I really wanted (and still do) want to buy into this series. It's Berserk, and there's always a chance if it somehow does well that the quality will improve for a potential second season. Or maybe they'll even redo things down the road, which has happened before. But most of what I've seen has made that very difficult. At best we are going to get mediocre (this episode, and the second) and at worst, a mess (ep 3).

Offline Aazealh

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 4
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2016, 02:57:48 PM »
Oh so they replaced the Dog Apostle with the Chicken Apostle... Is this actually a parody of Berserk or something? :ganishka:

Anyway, this felt passable enough because they stuck to the manga, but it's still a radically impoverished version of the story. Less content, badly edited, badly delivered, and with terrible visuals. I know this is nothing new, and I guess it can't get any better than it was in this episode... But I just can't be satisfied with that. At its best, it's still bad.

Are they introducing Isidro again with the Bakiraka?

Yeeeeeep, which makes me wonder even more why they bothered to introduce him in episode 1 at all. I guess they'll skip the scene with the brigands this time around? Still, really puzzling choices were made with this TV series. All that mess could have easily been avoided.

And does anyone else think that Puck's voice is really weird?

Guts' voice actor bothers me more than Puck's. He sounds like he's phoning it in a lot of the time to me, which drains a lot of scenes of their emotional impact. And it's not like we can count on the facial expressions of the 3D models to help with that either. The part when he did the Beast of Darkness could have been worse I guess, but it didn't wow me.

I liked how they toned down the Mozgus stuff, overall this was a pretty good episode.

Not sure what you mean here. It's pretty much the same content, only shittier.

Like Rickert's reaction to Puck... just copied the manga scene but without the back story, it has to come across as strange.

Yep... And Puck talks about being eaten, but the scene of Erika sleeping while holding him lasts a split-second on screen, it's so fast that unless you know what's going on, you can't possibly get it.

Offline Earthlingzing

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 4
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2016, 03:00:01 PM »
There were fewer closeups of Mozgus's face, that would be pretty horrifying in CGI.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 4
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2016, 03:01:22 PM »
There were fewer closeups of Mozgus's face, that would be pretty horrifying in CGI.

Ah, oh yeah, I can agree with that. Erika's face and Farnese's expressions (or lack thereof) were pretty painful throughout the episode.

Offline Griffith

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 4
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2016, 03:18:19 PM »
If anyone still cares about this, they're free to post their thoughts, impressions and reviews.

 :ganishka:

So, I take it that I'm not missing out by soft-boycotting this (it's not so much on principle as I just naturally don't want to watch it like any bad TV, let alone bad TV that butchers like my favorite story ever)? Do I get a prize for being the earliest to quit on the series, barring any tru fanz that never watched and never will? I honestly only got like 5 minutes in before tapping out. It literally hurt me, it hurt my feelings, and I can only imagine what you guys were going through dutifully podcasting this shit.

Or, hey, tell me if I'm wrong and should give it a second chance. I see that it's gotten "better" according to many here, but to the level it's genuinely watchable and not just out of fealty to Berserk? I mean, I want to like Berserk anime! I really like the '97 series (especially now), probably more than most.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 4
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2016, 03:24:23 PM »
I see that it's gotten "better" according to many here, but to the level it's genuinely watchable and not just out of fealty to Berserk?

Nah.

Offline Androyd

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 4
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2016, 03:27:28 PM »

Or, hey, tell me if I'm wrong and should give it a second chance. I see that it's gotten "better" according to many here, but to the level it's genuinely watchable and not just out of fealty to Berserk?

Personally, I think people have just gotten use to it, as opposed to getting better. I'd recommend watching it under the condition you're wanting to experience Berserk, but are feeling too lazy to actually reread the manga at that particular time.

And note I said "reread" because obviously this shouldn't be anyone's introduction to the story.

Online Rupert Sinclair

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 4
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2016, 03:41:10 PM »
None of the emotional impact is there for Godot's speech to Guts and it's absolutely the fault of both the voice actors.  The guy doing Guts is more of a line reader than a voice actor, and should probably find a new job.

Offline Eluvei

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 4
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2016, 03:41:20 PM »
I'd recommend watching it under the condition you're wanting to experience Berserk, but are feeling too lazy to actually reread the manga at that particular time.

I won't watch this episode or the next ones, but based on the first three, I don't think that watching this is in any way "experiencing Berserk". Unless you meant experience what it's like to go berserk. :mozgus:

Offline residentgrigo

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 4
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2016, 03:46:32 PM »
Certainly the best one but still a it was bad. The ep. made sense for the first time and “flowed” but none of it was earned. Introduction the Beast without any buildup is such an example and the opening minute is a perfect case study why the anime will never work with me as a viewing experience. The was nothing wrong with the writing or even the staging in that scene (right from the manga) but seeing the protagonist in about 4 differs art styles within 30 sec. took me right out. The fixed the music though, I give them that. But I now have a question: Why isn´t THIS the 1st ep?
That self-continued “arc” introduced stuff but not really. Almost no “essential” information for the Birth Ceremony they want to be adopted would be “missed”, just "off screen" as here, and the studio would have more money to do the stuff they want to showcase. Arslan came back for 8 eps. this season and Nanatsu no Taizai did 4. So weird. The very hard divide between the 1st and 2nd half was kind old school too and the dream-conversation in the cave reminds me of the PS2 game. I basically got to see for the better part of 20 min why the source material works and why veteran animators or directors are important if you want to get it "right". 5/10
@Walter 1 to 1 adaptation with zero control are the TV anime norm, if i forget gecko endings. Ready made storyboards and all.

Offline Salem

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 4
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2016, 03:55:10 PM »
I really enjoyed this episode. Besides the flash backs and animation, I thought it was pretty solid, considering who is presenting it.  Hopefully that feeling continues, as I'm sure this is as good as it can get.

Offline ApostleBob

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 4
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2016, 05:42:30 PM »
Best episode yet. Had good pacing and excellent character development. I didn't mind the animation at all except maybe some of the sloppy flashback stuff (but it's stylistic so whatever).

They brought Godo back without explanation but I'm fine with it. If you've seen the 97 anime it works fine. They nailed the scene. One of the most pivotal ones in the series at Godo's death bed. The scene in the cave is great too. Done perfectly with the ghosts of the falcons and the Beast.

The stuff with Mozgus was great too. And I'm kind of fine with the way they decided to censor it. It was stylistic and looked intentional. And man that breaking wheel. Yowch!

And lastly, they mostly fixed one of my greatest gripes so far. The music was actually pretty appropriate throughout! We didn't have power metal throughout! It was as brooding as you'd want a dark series to be.

It's a shame that we didn't have the best build up to this episode, but if they continue like this one, count me on board. The series is definitely on a budget, but I can overlook small stuff if you do the content justice, and I felt like this one did the trick.

Small side note: I like how the chicken apostle still had the knife in it's eye that Judeau had thrown. A nice touch

Offline Gamehowitzer

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 4
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2016, 05:46:46 PM »
My worst fear has come to bear fruit. They made :casca: sound like a retard. I was really worried how they'd handle her nonsensical noises and moans but to have the voice of a 5 year old? *sigh* Another problem was how when they were showing the right eye flashback the blood was straight up covering the screen. They should have just reddened the screen. Or if they really wanted ppl to understand they would have done a decent flashback where we can see his eye getting gouged out.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 4
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2016, 06:27:12 PM »
Small side note: I like how the chicken apostle still had the knife in it's eye that Judeau had thrown. A nice touch

You're aware a full month passes between the Eclipse and the time Guts leaves Godot's place, right? It makes no sense whatsoever for an apostle to just keep the knife in like that, not to mention the fact it means he never returned to his human form... And it's also in the wrong eye. Maybe it's an homage to the Eclipse, but I'm pretty sure the viewer is supposed to assume Guts just threw the knife.

Offline DANGERDOOOOM

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 4
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2016, 07:52:21 PM »
Wow, this episode totally redeemed last. I was so happy to see  :beast: make an appearance. Plus all of the panel-by-panel shots were awesome. This episode has proven to me they are stepping in the right direction and following the story somewhat close to the original  :ubik:

My worst fear has come to bear fruit. They made :casca: sound like a retard.
Isn't she supposed to sound like that? I mean yeah, her voice did sound a little young. But keep in mind this is a Japanese anime. Be prepared for the voices of a female to stab your ear drums, especially someone who has the mentality of a vegetable.

Offline buttonmasher

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 4
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2016, 08:47:14 PM »
People are mentioning things in the episode that don't make sense or might be lost of those who have not read the manga.  This is going to continue to happen for the rest of this run.  I actually like they way they are handling it - instead of trying to retcon or shove extra footage in, just do the manga and move on whlie letting the chips fall where they may.  If they continue to adapt the series then this particular problem should resolve istelf. 

I was in awe at how closely they followed the manga.  If they keep doing that then I will be at peace with this adaptation even if I'm not really loving it.  It is reminding me of Watchmen in the sense that the beats and visuals are happening but a bit hollow.  I completely understand folks tapping out, especially with free trials expiring, but I think the series as a whole will avoid being the complete travesty many of us expected.   

Offline Cyrus Jong

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 4
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2016, 10:27:09 PM »
I said in the previous topic that this series would still suck even if it was a 100% faithful to the source material, and I stand by that. This episode proved it. It followed the plot of the manga almost word for word, but everything just felt off. It's like the writers and directors know the steps, but they can't feel the rhythm. The conversation with Godot and Guts' scene in the cave are supposed to be emotional and contemplative moments, but the pacing never takes a moment to pause in the action and let the words sink in for both the characters and the audience. This entire section is supposed to be devoted to breaking Guts down and building him up again into a better, stronger person, with his vow to "never lose [Casca] again" and Godot's reforging of the sword meant to be the emotionally climatic moments symbolizing Guts' "rebirth," but once again, the frantic pacing just resulted in a shallow payoff that didn't feel earned.

The voice acting is similarly flat. Guts always sounds like he's reading his lines; there's never any change in his emotional state. And I'm completely with Walter on Godot; his abrasive and brutally honest personality is nowhere to be seen here. Mozgus was similarly unimpressive. When he gets his :mozgus: face going, he just talks a little louder and faster, as if he's slightly irate, and not filled with manic, frothing-at-the-mouth rage and religious fervor.

And once again, the music is bad and it's used badly. Guts realizes that Casca is in danger, so they play those obnoxious guitar riffs. And heroic music starts blaring from out of nowhere from the moment of silent victory as Guts renews himself and vows to find Casca. Both instances were audibly distracting and highly inappropriate.

Also, did anyone notice that in the scenes depicting Casca in the Eclipse, that she has a tentacle jammed in her mouth? Seriously, that was just fucking excessive and unnecessary.

People are mentioning things in the episode that don't make sense or might be lost of those who have not read the manga.  This is going to continue to happen for the rest of this run.  I actually like they way they are handling it - instead of trying to retcon or shove extra footage in, just do the manga and move on whlie letting the chips fall where they may.  If they continue to adapt the series then this particular problem should resolve istelf. 
While it certainly is nice that we saw considerably fewer changes and retcons this time around and that they're just sticking to what was in the manga, the fact that they shoved a number of characters, concepts, events, and ideas in without any real explanation is just going to leave fresh viewers completely lost. Which isn't automatically a bad thing, but it runs contrary to Kurosu's previous claims that the series was standalone. If he honestly believes that, then he's deluded, and if new viewers were never supposed to be a factor in this series, then why were all the goddamn changes in the previous episodes made in the first place? It seems like nobody knows who they're making this show for.

Offline __Bonfire__

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 4
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2016, 10:28:41 PM »
I liked it, but I think that's because it was better than the other episodes, episode 2 wasn't horrible either, but so far none of them are that great. Also when Guts simply raises the DS in the air there is a faint clanging sound...

Offline Delta Phi

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 4
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2016, 10:42:17 PM »
Also, did anyone notice that in the scenes depicting Casca in the Eclipse, that she has a tentacle jammed in her mouth? Seriously, that was just fucking excessive and unnecessary.

I didn't, but it's not without warrant

Offline Zade

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 4
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2016, 11:11:19 PM »
I liked this episode. It was enjoyable to watch. and finally we see Casca again