Poll

What did you think of the sixth episode of the 2016 TV series?

It was great.
6 (10.2%)
Some problems, but enjoyable.
15 (25.4%)
It was bad, but had some redeeming features.
16 (27.1%)
I hated it.
22 (37.3%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Voting closed: August 20, 2016, 01:43:17 PM

Author Topic: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 6  (Read 4657 times)

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Offline Aazealh

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2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 6
« on: August 05, 2016, 01:43:17 PM »
This is the official discussion thread for the sixth episode of the 2016 TV series. Post your thoughts, impressions and reviews as you see fit.

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 6
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2016, 02:10:24 PM »
Well again in my opinion they continue on a "good" note.

Skullknight's voice was less then impressive. I wished it had sounded more gloomy or otherworldly. And he's too much t-1000 looking. Other than that the episode was satisfying. Of course I'm leaving the animation part as usual for I'm getting used to these shitty graphics. So, some problems but enjoyable.

Offline DANGERDOOOOM

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 6
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2016, 02:17:40 PM »
Here are my notes I took for this episode.

- Scene with Nina and Casca went smooth.
- Skull Knight's first appearance in this show went very well IMO. His dialogue with Guts was accurate and stuck to the manga. Though his appearance was completely metallic and very reflective. Wasn't expecting him to be that shiny all entirely. Just didnt blend well with his horse I feel.
- Mozgus tells Farnese of a, 'Holy Man' instead of 'sage' who was once imprisoned by Gaiseric. Was that just translation issues? Which is the correct term?
- Slan makes her first appearance in the flames during the cult's sex orgy.
- We get a glimpse into Farnese's childhood and the origin of her becoming a masochist  :farnese:

Overall this episode seemed to be completely faithful to the books again. By this I can only hope they keep this up and stay close to the manga as much as possible. I'm starting to get over the animation. It's the story that counts.

And he's too much t-1000 looking.

 :ganishka: I was getting a big Terminator vibe from him when I saw how reflective he was. If only his eyes were red.

Offline Walter

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 6
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2016, 02:41:20 PM »
I still can't decide if this was the worst episode so far, or merely slightly better than the first episode. Either way, it was easily the most visually confusing episode.

SK's translation was off. See the quote below for more... Also, his voice actor barely even tried, which is a shame because I really liked what he did in the third movie.

Everything is too compressed. They're conveying the manga scenes, but people talk so quickly, and the editors are so eager to move scenes forward, that conversations carry out unnaturally: 

:farnese: : "Sir, your knees!"

 :mozgus: : "Yes, 1000 years ago a man was imprisoned by Gaiseric..."

And sure, that is pretty much what happens in the manga sequence, but in that version of events, the people speaking weren't being threatened with cattle prods to read their lines faster. The problem of this compression rears its head again during the orgy sequence. Props to them for hitting all the highlights of the scene, but it happens about 5x faster than it should have, or for anyone to be able to comprehend it. "Oh, the goddess of flame! A snake penis?! Oh no, Baby soup? A cliff AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!"

Regarding the visual confusion I mentioned earlier, during the possession sequence, the camera is placed too close to the characters, and the perspective floats around (they do this a lot...) so you can never really get a good look at what's happening, so it's all too fucking confusing.

2/10.

His dialogue with Guts was accurate and stuck to the manga.

No, you're wrong about that. SK doesn't stand against "otherworldly beings." "Karma" is an incomplete translation of inga (causality is more correct). "Do not have more than one you can care for" is completely wrong. He's supposed to be addressing the dichotomy that Guts can't seek his revenge and ensure Casca's safety. He'll have to choose. Furthermore, it skips the significance of living in the interstice, and the ability to slightly change events during junctions of time, and of course the analogy of the moon's light reflected on the surface of water.

So yeah, it's a fucking wreck. This is a key scene to understanding both what's about to happen, and Guts' role in things, and they fell on their face trying to do it justice.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline GiantSword Mufasa

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 6
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2016, 02:42:57 PM »
Skull knight looking like a hood ornament. In terms of the Episode itself,  (voice of the horse guy from ren and stimpy) "no sir i don't like it"
« Last Edit: August 05, 2016, 02:53:25 PM by GiantSword Mufasa »
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Offline Earthlingzing

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 6
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2016, 02:50:05 PM »
I'm not sure if non-manga readers will be able to follow this episode, visually speaking it was a real mess. The direction really sucks.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 6
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2016, 03:00:32 PM »
I found this episode pretty bad. My biggest overall complaint is that it's just too fast paced. They go through scenes in a mechanical way, and because it's all done so quickly and with wacky angles (yeah we get that 3D means you can do crazy rotations, but guess what: rotations aren't that great), most of the time you can't understand what's going on with the scene at all. It's made worse by the fact they skip small scenes and details that should establish a location or situation, all in order to keep the pacing as brisk as possible. It was the movies' greatest sin and it's still as damning here. If you can't adapt a certain amount of material in the time you have alotted, the answer isn't to accelerate it beyond sense. The result is a mess that lacks meaning, emotion, depth, you name it.

That aside, they also have a problem with distances. It shows right at the beginning in the scene with Casca and the boy. The scale just isn't right. It's even worse when Nina and Jérome go to the cave while Luka follows literally 5 meters behind them, with Casca 5 meters behind her. It's like a joke. Then there's the problems with the dialogue and translation. Skull Knight's dialogue was butchered here among other things. Very disappointing. I also don't understand why they didn't stay faithful to the depiction of the Falcon of Light seen in Guts' dream. The burning stake was much better than the bullshit white light thing they did. Also, as I noted when we saw the preview, the chrome effect on SK is just terrible.

As noted in previous episodes, I find Nina's portrayal to be completely off. They just can't convey the complexity of the character with their doll-faced models and bland voice acting, so her character makes no sense here, and of course the breakneck pace makes matters worse. The worst offender in regard to the pacing is the orgy in the cave. It's all done so fast that it almost feels like a teaser of the scene instead of the scene itself. Would a newcomer understand the scene at all? I doubt it. And to add insult to injury, the scene right after between Luka and Nina that ends with a good slapping lasts forever.

Oh and for those who listen to the podcast and remember my long commentary about the artistic merits of the panels Miura drew for those scenes, well there's none of it here. It's all so drab... By the way, why the fuck did they show the eyes of the goat's head moving? They apparently mistook the scene in the manga and made it so the dude is already a monster instead of some idiot wearing a hollowed-out goat carcass. That means people won't understand what happens when the beherit apostle stings him. Gross mistake. The stuff with Mozgus and his guys, Farnese and Serpico is mostly alright in comparison to the rest. Although while Farnese and the others are outside the doors, Mozgus prostrating himself sounds like a brass statue falling on the floor. Not quite a "clang", but you can tell the sound editor was trying.

Offline Delta Phi

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 6
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2016, 03:06:57 PM »
Furthermore, it skips the significance of living in the interstice, and the ability to slightly change events during junctions of time, and of course the analogy of the moon's light reflected on the surface of water.

Oh fuck, you're right. I tend to confuse what all is said between this meeting and the conversation on the beach. Wow, the fish analogy is one of my favorite concepts from the series. This completely changes my already tepid opinion on the anime's version.

Offline residentgrigo

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 6
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2016, 04:03:31 PM »
I found ep. 5 to be "bad“ last week (4/10, unbelievable awkward in every sense) and left the tread alone after voting but it was the 2nd “best” ep. after 4. This week though, Christmas in July happened, they did the impossible: Some problems, but enjoyable :isidro: I finally got actually human emotions inside me going and a form of curiosity to look at the screen. The many problems the 2 mods pointed out 100% apply but i can´t care anymore about misconstrued continuity anymore. That ship sailed with movie 2. This is the 1st time the show fully resembled a television program, regardless of the Mach 9 pacing. Bokurano got us beat though, they once did 1 whole Volume and a new prologue in the pilot! And the art, workmanlike as it may be, half the time ugly even, for fucking once they tried to be artistic. This is the 1st Berserk ep. a new viewer should be able to process. I suspect that i would check out the source materiel if i saw this on a something i disliked but followed for some reason.
A quality core could be seen in multiple key scenes to make one curios. The polar opposite was ep.3. (This is the 1st anime that started bad which i followed for multiple weeks in at least 3 years. This is one of the reasons i am still here, to remember what crap anime feels like for a prolonged period of time.) 6/10   
@Walter Remember when you said that you liked the OP i despise for "going for it". They did it this week for me, especially the episode director.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2016, 04:18:35 PM by residentgrigo »

Offline Walter

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 6
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2016, 04:26:22 PM »
I finally got actually human emotions inside me going and a form of curiosity to look at the screen.

When?

Quote
And the art, workmanlike as it may be, half the time ugly even, for fucking once they tried to be artistic.

When?

Quote
This is the 1st Berserk ep. a new viewer should be able to process.

I couldn't possibly disagree more. It's the most confusing episode so far. I've already explained why I feel that way.

Quote
@Walter Remember when you said that you liked the OP i despise for "going for it". They did it this week for me, especially the episode director.

Really...? This whole thing felt lazy as balls.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Salem

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 6
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2016, 04:38:45 PM »
I found ep. 5 to be "bad“ last week (4/10, unbelievable awkward in every sense) and left the tread alone after voting but it was the 2nd “best” ep. after 4. This week though, Christmas in July happened, they did the impossible: Some problems, but enjoyable :isidro: I finally got actually human emotions inside me going and a form of curiosity to look at the screen. The many problems the 2 mods pointed out 100% apply but i can´t care anymore about misconstrued continuity anymore. That ship sailed with movie 2. This is the 1st time the show fully resembled a television program, regardless of the Mach 9 pacing. Bokurano got us beat though, they once did 1 whole Volume and a new prologue in the pilot! And the art, workmanlike as it may be, half the time ugly even, for fucking once they tried to be artistic. This is the 1st Berserk ep. a new viewer should be able to process. I suspect that i would check out the source materiel if i saw this on a something i disliked but followed for some reason.
A quality core could be seen in multiple key scenes to make one curios. The polar opposite was ep.3. (This is the 1st anime that started bad which i followed for multiple weeks in at least 3 years. This is one of the reasons i am still here, to remember what crap anime feels like for a prolonged period of time.) 6/10   
@Walter Remember when you said that you liked the OP i despise for "going for it". They did it this week for me, especially the episode director.

Sometimes I read what you put out and think you HAVE to be a long time member with high level trolling.  Other times, idk what in the world is going on... :???:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 6
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2016, 06:23:08 PM »
Other times, idk what in the world is going on... :???:

I share the sentiment.

Offline Gamehowitzer

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 6
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2016, 06:36:59 PM »
Well im happy they played more of Hai yo in the preview. How often did the baby actually protect :casca: in the manga? I always found those scenes kind of confusing in the manga. Ugh what the guy said about the cult leader eyes is something i noticed too. At least Beherit apostle saved joachim. (Who cares) So next ep were gonna get more sex too. Great. They already do a horrible job with most of everything else but y'know, when the goat apostle tries to rape casca i feel like its just going to be bad again. I get the feeling theyre going to put flashbacks to the eclipse there. Not to say its not a good way to show what happened in the eclipse but... it just doesnt belong there. Oh, when the old dudes tried to rape casca she didnt sound AS bad as she could have. I just feel like this episode was bad. But thats because the spanking scene.  :isidro: Oh and i know they stuck pretty close to the manga here but the execution of how they did it was just horrible.

Offline Gummyskull

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 6
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2016, 08:06:05 PM »
A completely unremarkable episode. Any new viewers would have no idea what was going on, and based on the Crunchyroll comments that is exactly what happened. The most irritating thing for me is that the demon child has yet to be explained, so the connection to Casca is a mystery. If this was my first Berserk experience this is where I'd have have dropped the series.


Nothing else to add nice it's already been said.

Offline PENumber2

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 6
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2016, 08:21:34 PM »
Why do they roll the credits at 19 minutes of a 24 minute episode? There's a whole scene vital to two of the characters after it.

Just once I want the credits to roll and it's Guts, Griffith, Zod, Skull Knight, Casca, and everyone sitting down enjoying Shawarma like at the end of "The Avengers."

Offline JMP

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 6
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2016, 08:45:43 PM »
I didn't watch this episode and I'm not at all sorry. I don't feel I missed anything. After my free trial ran out I bailed. So, that will be one less "bad" or "hated it" review for this and future polls!  :ganishka:
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Offline Kaladin

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 6
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2016, 08:56:36 PM »
Why do they roll the credits at 19 minutes of a 24 minute episode? There's a whole scene vital to two of the characters after it.
yeah i don't get the point of that

didn't really enjoy this episode, for the same reasons as others mentioned. although they butchered Sk's appearance, i don't mind his voice actor but then again I'm a Akio Ootsuka fanboy. The hand drawn scenes are becoming worse and worse with each episode, the cgi in this episode honestly looked better than that hand drawn atrocity. 6 more painful episodes to go  :judo:, i must pull through!  :puck:

Offline Cyrus Jong

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 6
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2016, 09:23:11 PM »
"What the flippety-floop is going on here?" is what I would ask if I wasn't familiar with the source material. The rushed pacing and the way everything is cut together makes it nigh impossible to follow along. The pagan orgy was really bad about this. There just didn't seem to be any transition between the moments when Joachim was stripped, had sex with Nina, was brought to the Great Goat, and chased off the cliff. How is anyone supposed to know what, how or why any of that was happening? To say nothing of how it had absolutely no atmosphere, the hallucinations were half-assed, and they screwed up the depiction of the goat in a way that made it seem as though he was a monster. They similarly rushed through the bird-masked torturer's backstory so quickly, I wonder why they included it at all. It was completely mechanical, soulless and failed to humanize him, his cohorts, or Mozgus the way it did in the manga.

They also completely flubbed the Skull Knight's scene badly. We hear nothing about the metaphor about the world being a reflection of the moon on the water's surface, or how Guts is "a fish that breaches the water's surface." These are important for understanding some of the events to come, as well as the cosmology of the Berserk world. Excellent job educating viewers in your "standalone" series. :schierke:

And what was with the goddamn credits? Do you think that just because Monty Python's Flying Circus sometimes threw credits into the middle of the show for lulz, that you can too?

Overall, while this episode wasn't quite the dysentery that the first one was, it was still a nasty case of the runs.

Well im happy they played more of Hai yo in the preview. How often did the baby actually protect :casca: in the manga? I always found those scenes kind of confusing in the manga.
We saw the child keeping the specters at bay in the scene with Casca and Nina and again during the scene with the pagans. And more later on down the line. Presumably, it was the reason she was even able to survive outside the cave near Godot's for so long.

Offline Hanma_Baki

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 6
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2016, 10:48:15 PM »
Yeah that pacing literally renders EVERYTHING awkwardly pointless, why the fuck do we get to follow this Nina character??? Oh yes, SEX and NUDITY of course!!!

And yes, weird as it may be, they actually outdid themselves and made the otherwise occasionally quite decent 2D art even worse than the 3D, a new level of low despite all we've endured before, how 'bout that huh? Often I find myself chuckling at those 2D closeups, its almost as if they actually WANT to emphasize how bad it is when they zoom in like that :ganishka: Sorry for going on about it but I honestly think my 6yo niece could do it better.


:farnese: : "Sir, your knees!"

 :mozgus: : "Yes, 1000 years ago a man was imprisoned by Gaiseric..."
.......
"Oh, the goddess of flame! A snake penis?! Oh no, Baby soup? A cliff AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!"


 :ganishka:
Such a mess. Its more like comedy at this point.

Offline Gamehowitzer

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 6
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2016, 11:03:41 PM »
We saw the child keeping the specters at bay in the scene with Casca and Nina and again during the scene with the pagans. And more later on down the line. Presumably, it was the reason she was even able to survive outside the cave near Godot's for so long.
Well yeah. I see that. I guess when i was reading the manga i kinda... flipped through that too fast.

Offline ApostleBob

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 6
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2016, 03:43:24 AM »
This one was really a mixed bag for me. There were some parts that felt like decent adaptations. Most of the Farnese, Serpico and Mozgus stuff felt like a good adaptation. There were some small cuts, like Mozgus's story about the nun, but nothing that felt like a horrible abridgment. The early Nina stuff was also pretty decent. until it got to the orgy...

What the hell happened here? Why is evey one a clone stamp, and an obvious one at that. Why is the music here one guy with a bongo? Is no one at this orgy moaning? Isn't it like 60 people going at it? I get that they would abridge a sex scene but this is ridiculous. And when she gives him the soup, a finger just appears in his mouth. We skip him eating it. And who knows what that shadow is supposed to be falling into the cauldron. And when slan shows up, did anyone else notice how the old man cultist with the bird staff just slides in as a static layer ON A CLIFF into the right side of frame?  What the hell? Not to mention the disjointed pushing of Joachim off a cliff within 3 seconds, despite him being nowhere near a cliff. And then every male cultist is not only a clone, but has no genetalia at all. Why not just use shadows or clever camera framing? Why show a fully lit crotch with nothing there? It's sloppy and distracting.

But we have plenty of time for a crazy camera angle spanking scene that goes on for ages. I really don't know who this thing is for. Perverts? If so why rush past the orgy. Action fans? Then why have all the action take place off screen? The fans? if so it's schizophrenic between being incredibly faithful to garbage.

An my God, the pacing is a mess here. Why does the camera feel like it's operated by a crack head who can't settle on anything? Thee are at least four shots where it quick pans over stuff and cuts away before any human can register what's happening. Farnese in the mess hall, THe bird torturer without his mask. The cultist getting possesed. The entire Orgy sequence. It feels like a shitty editor met a guy who just discovered camera movement.

THe Skull Knight scene wasn't horrible, but it did cut the whole fish in the water of the moon light metaphor, which is pretty iconic. Instead he just tells us, somethings going to happen and maybe your brand can help you. And apparently he's made of chrome now.

I'm trying not to bitch too much because it was 'mostly' faithful. But it was just handled in such a crappy way. I really hate to imagine what the battle between the Goat and Guts is going to look like.

Offline residentgrigo

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 6
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2016, 01:03:44 PM »
This is the only sentence anyone should be concerned with in my review.
Quote
I suspect that i would check out the source materiel if i saw this on a something i disliked but followed for some reason.
I still have a 3/10 rating on ANN and Imdb for the show, it is destined to never change now, this is show is straight out bad for the franchise, full stop, as the last add in anime form was only 3 years ago. BUT the human emotion called fun was experienced in about 3 scenes yesterday by me, what a crime, and i clicked on the episode with the same enthusiasms i feel when i have to carry something heavy up the stairs. I don´t look forward to the next episode though. The show is 0 to 6 with me so far, 7/10 is where i start to hand our recommendations, and i translate 4 given choices by 2,5 jumps here to text. (Numbers are fun.) See you next week, maybe, they just need to accomplish something new for me to write something that won´t repeat a previous oppinion.

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 6
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2016, 01:58:59 PM »
If this was my first Berserk experience this is where I'd have have dropped the series.


Really? This is where I would mostly be curious about the manga and would try to read it. But that aside, my opinion is biased because I'm a fan of comic books and am most of the time curious about the source material when I see an anime or a movie etc.

My girlfriend has never read Berserk yet and she watches the show with me. She knows some bits of story because of me but in her opinion the last 3 episodes were the "best" of the series in a sense that the pacing wasn't as horrible as in the beginning.

That aside, it doesn't remove the fact that this animation is overloaded with flaws...

Offline Ilyas

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 6
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2016, 04:49:31 PM »
None of the episodes prior to this one made want to stop watching the series. As bad as they were they still had some of my interest as a twisted misguided and poor vision of berserk. I found myself at least mildly amused seeing someone else s perception of it, partially for the reason it was that stupid.
But this one hurt.

Those devotion of emotion and that pacing gave me flashbacks to golden age movies.


Offline Roderick

Re: 2016 Berserk TV series: Episode 6
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2016, 07:08:36 PM »
Getting some flashbacks from The Terminator after seeing this.  Just so much "chrome" covering SK (really just artists to lazy to to bone texture) that he looked more like an android than an armored up skeleton.

And sure, that is pretty much what happens in the manga sequence, but in that version of events, the people speaking weren't being threatened with cattle prods to read their lines faster. The problem of this compression rears its head again during the orgy sequence. Props to them for hitting all the highlights of the scene, but it happens about 5x faster than it should have, or for anyone to be able to comprehend it. "Oh, the goddess of flame! A snake penis?! Oh no, Baby soup? A cliff AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!"

THIS!  While this was apparent in earlier episodes, this one really took me out of the mood for the series because it seemed like they were trying to cram too much content into a single episode.  The orgy sequence is a prime example, some of it seeming like they were copying the panels without having a clear idea how to visually adapt it or perhaps even what the scenes were suppose to convey.  The hallucinatory sex scene between Joachim and Nana in particular was particularly butchered.

In addition to the healf-hearted SK scene, another moment is Farnese's dream sequence.  That just whipped by without getting any sense of immersion

Some scenes worked somewhat better.  Farnese in Mozgus' chambers was decent enough, as was the spectres attacking the rapists and Serpico's moment at the end.  But the rest felt like they were trying to "rush to the good parts"

And speaking of the orgy, they really should have done more creative censoring other than have the guys run around like Ken dolls, like deeper shadows, pixelation, something.  Between that and the CG, they really did look like plastic dolls on parade.