Author Topic: Episode 346  (Read 23645 times)

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Offline luizao

Re: Episode 346
« Reply #50 on: August 24, 2016, 01:22:36 PM »
Thank you as always Aazealh and Puella!

I think translating all this gender issues is hard, of course its a mistake but some Berserk fans are overreacting about this. Knowing all this, don't you think that the Sovereign of the Flower Storm name should belong to a Queen instead of a King? Putting aside the translation I still think that the Queen might put the crew in some kind of challenge to prove themselves, despite Danan's behaviour has been charming and pleasant.

The other interesting reveal was the weight elemental, I guess it's some kind of Gravity particle that affect more in the outside world. There might be interesting mechanics between the Od and this elemental but we don't know until we learn more about it.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 346
« Reply #51 on: August 24, 2016, 01:29:12 PM »
I think translating all this gender issues is hard, of course its a mistake but some Berserk fans are overreacting about this.

No mistake was made. Miura clearly intended the gender of the Elf Leader to be a surprise, as even this episode shows.
The proper translation for the word is "king". It's just that in Japanese, it can refer to a woman. That's how languages work.

Besides, when Puella and I decided to translate the title as "King of the Flower Storm" over a decade ago, I'm pretty sure people were told that there was a degree of uncertainty. Similarly, it was explained that Miura had used the expression for "snow storm", swapping "snow" with "flower" (with a connotation of "heavily falling" petals rather than "wild winds and thunder"), and that there was a high likeliness that it would be cherry blossoms. Some things can be known, others can't. Again, that's how languages work.

Knowing all this, don't you think that the Sovereign of the Flower Storm name should belong to a Queen instead of a King?

The exact term hasn't been chosen yet, but we will probably switch to a gender neutral word rather than going for "Queen of the Flower Storm". It's the most accurate way of translating it, and it's what the author intended.

The other interesting reveal was the weight elemental, I guess it's some kind of Gravity particle that affect more in the outside world. There might be interesting mechanics between the Od and this elemental but we don't know until we learn more about it.

Well yeah, that much is obvious. The concept seems strongly inspired by physics, but its application to the magical world of Berserk makes it very interesting. I'm sure we'll know more about it soon enough.

Offline ApostleBob

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Re: Episode 346
« Reply #52 on: August 24, 2016, 01:53:00 PM »
Hmmm, I'm probably reaching here, but I think we have a new candidate for the woman on Skull Knight's horse's armor.

Thanks for the Summary Puella and Aaz.

Big events happening here.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 346
« Reply #53 on: August 24, 2016, 02:10:34 PM »
:miura: "...You will have a QUEEEEN!"

Love it! Not just for all the cool creatures and reveals that are obviously great; their walk through the area reminded me of the Wings of Light and Darkness and Qliphoth episodes, only the opposite, but the fucking comedy with Puck's brothers and him as "the King" was fantastic, especially since we'd already been jokingly speculating about the possibility (Miura played us like fiddles =).

Also, really digging the "Elf Queen" design, and it begs the question... is Griffith a ripoff and created as a sort of evil analog or equivalent to her?
« Last Edit: August 24, 2016, 02:45:34 PM by Griffith »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 346
« Reply #54 on: August 24, 2016, 02:18:12 PM »
Hmmm, I'm probably reaching here, but I think we have a new candidate for the woman on Skull Knight's horse's armor.

Hehe, yeah reaching quite a bit here I think. Or then not a very faithful representation. :iva:

the fucking comedy with Puck's brothers and him as "the King" was fantastic, especially since we'd already been jokingly speculating about the possibility (Miura played us like fiddles =).

Yeah I'm really glad he went all the way with that actually. It definitely feels like a gentle poke in the ribs to the inevitable theories that sprouted up during all those years about Puck secretly being the Elf King. :guts:

Also, really digging the "Elf Queen" design, and it begs the question... is Griffith a ripoff and created as a sort of evil analog or equivalent to her?

You know what, I actually had the same thought, specifically because of her flower garments. They're reminiscent of the feather pattern somehow, and with the hair and the rest... I don't know, I wonder if there isn't an intentional kind of symmetry to it.

Offline Androyd

Re: Episode 346
« Reply #55 on: August 24, 2016, 02:24:31 PM »
I've waited years to see Puck and Magnifico overthrow Elfhelm, only for them to botch the attempt. :puck:

Thanks for scans and summary. Berserk always cheers me up.

Offline Delta Phi

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Re: Episode 346
« Reply #56 on: August 24, 2016, 02:24:57 PM »
Incredible! I almost feel just an overwhelmed as our heroes! So many new creatures. The comedy in this episode was top notch. I loved the panel with the elf prying Serpico's eye open to get a better look! :serpico: And Puck as the king is rather hysterical. I must admit feeling slightly let down after years of imagining a king on the throne, BUT that reveal...Good god, it got me a little bit I have to admit (This is happening! It's really happening!). The [Ruler] of the Flower Storm is every bit as impressive as one could expect. What an absolutely stunning splash page! And the more I think about it, the more I appreciate having my expectations subverted. It really is just a fantastic surprise after all these years.

Anyway, in this moment I have a special thought for Dark Horse's translator and his exceptionally stupid decision to create the mistranslated monstrosity that is "Hanabufuku King". Have fun explaining to the readers that it's really "Queen of the Flower Storm".

Much like "hawk" I'm sure they'll just ignore their mistake. "'Hanabufuku King' is what we call all of our monarchs!" :schnoz:

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 346
« Reply #57 on: August 24, 2016, 02:41:06 PM »
Hmmm, I'm probably reaching here, but I think we have a new candidate for the woman on Skull Knight's horse's armor.
Hehe, yeah reaching quite a bit here I think. Or then not a very faithful representation. :iva:

Cool idea though, maybe it's a more Gothic representation better married to his style. Hmmm, married; maybe there's a King we've already met after all... naaaaah. :badbone:

Yeah I'm really glad he went all the way with that actually. It definitely feels like a gentle poke in the ribs to the inevitable theories that sprouted up during all those years about Puck secretly being the Elf King. :guts:

To the point I half wish it were true! Puck looked pretty good as a traditional King. :ganishka: :puck:

You know what, I actually had the same thought, specifically because of her flower garments. They're reminiscent of the feather pattern somehow, and with the hair and the rest... I don't know, I wonder if there isn't an intentional kind of symmetry to it.

Great minds and all that. :slan:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 346
« Reply #58 on: August 24, 2016, 02:41:55 PM »
So after much brow-furrowing (just like the Puck family), it is hereby decreed that the most accurate title for the Elf Queen is: Sovereign of the Flower Storm.
It's a mouthful, I know, but it's what best conveys the proper meaning of it.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 346
« Reply #59 on: August 24, 2016, 02:46:22 PM »
Also, really digging the "Elf Queen" design, and it begs the question... is Griffith a ripoff and created as a sort of evil analog or equivalent to her?

Furthermore, Rochine's design is similar. She wanted to be the Queen of the Elves even though she'd never seen such a being, but her design isn't far from the real thing.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Feeblecursedone

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Re: Episode 346
« Reply #60 on: August 24, 2016, 02:49:10 PM »
I wonder what are those tall, sinister looking creatures in background ( they remind me of gilians from bleach ) with white elongated noses/face. There's also some kind of goblin-esque type of small humanoinds and what seems like dryads to me. Unicorns were also correctly guessed to be here, as all creatures here seem to be of " good " alignment.

Edit: I think these might be our dwarves, they have different tools and long hats

« Last Edit: August 24, 2016, 03:03:47 PM by Feeblecursedone »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 346
« Reply #61 on: August 24, 2016, 03:01:17 PM »
I wonder what are those tall, sinister looking creatures in background ( they remind me of gilians from bleach ) with white elongated noses/face. There's also some kind of goblin-esque type of small humanoinds and what seems like dryads to me.

One species could be Kobolds, but for some of these guys I have no idea honestly.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 346
« Reply #62 on: August 24, 2016, 03:16:15 PM »
Edit: I think these might be our dwarves, they have different tools and long hats

We also clearly see the dwarves talking with Azan on Page 7.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Feeblecursedone

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Re: Episode 346
« Reply #63 on: August 24, 2016, 03:19:29 PM »
We also clearly see the dwarves talking with Azan on Page 7.

Haha, yeah, probably drawn to him cause of the armour design  ( or the fact he's almost as sh...tall as them and wide )  :serpico:

Hopefully they approach Guts and note what he's wearing.

Offline DragoonBG

Re: Episode 346
« Reply #64 on: August 24, 2016, 03:23:19 PM »
What an insane episode :)! Thank you for the translation.

Miura is going nuts with his art. The amount of work put into his drawings is amazing. I like a lot how much he is stays true/traditional to the creatures design. I've got a great vibe from "A Midsummer Night's Dream" (which I haven't red :(), and maybe some inspirations from it (in particular the many different paintings inspired by the comedy).

This particular painting by Edward Robert Hughes, hits home on Danan :) (there is flute in there as well):



Btw, this is probably talked about a long time ago (I'm pretty sure), but does Puck from the comedy count as inspiration for our little elf in Berserk as well?

One more thing, I red the whole thread, but I have to ask this: Is Danan 100% the ruler?

Offline Grail

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Re: Episode 346
« Reply #65 on: August 24, 2016, 03:25:26 PM »
Thank you very much for the summary!

Now that's what I call a reveal! As I was telling Gob the other day, I think that one of Miura's strengths is in always managing to exceed expectations, and having Danan transform into the Sovereign of the Flower Storm is a perfect example. It's so much better than just having them walking into the throne room and be greeted a fancy-looking character - that's what I think many of us (including myself) were initially expecting. This twist at the very end gives it a mystical, whimsical feel that makes me feel very excited about what other surprises are in store! :carcus:

Furthermore, Rochine's design is similar. She wanted to be the Queen of the Elves even though she'd never seen such a being, but her design isn't far from the real thing.
I was thinking about that, too. It's kind of bittersweet to see everything in Elfhelm and remember Rochine's attempt at creating her own "kingdom." Not that it wasn't already twisted at the time, but now it's just EXTRA sad. :sad:
« Last Edit: August 24, 2016, 04:20:22 PM by Grail »

Offline Femto96

Re: Episode 346
« Reply #66 on: August 24, 2016, 03:35:33 PM »
Anyone else think that the gender of the Sovereign of the Flower Storm will help in Casca's recovery? For example, in terms of the rape and Casca's feelings etc.

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Episode 346
« Reply #67 on: August 24, 2016, 03:41:42 PM »
Well that was quite an interesting episode! Not much to add since a lot has been said already. I like the designs, I like the creatures, I like the vibe and feel of these past episodes. Awesome time to be a Berserk fan.

Too bad the dark horse translations will probably be shit as usual. Can't wait toe see what's next. In the meanwhile I'll be observing the wonderful artwork of this episode. Thx a lot guys.

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 346
« Reply #68 on: August 24, 2016, 03:49:29 PM »
So after much brow-furrowing (just like the Puck family), it is hereby decreed that the most accurate title for the Elf Queen is: Sovereign of the Flower Storm.
It's a mouthful, I know, but it's what best conveys the proper meaning of it.

I like it. :guts:

I couldn't help but notice the parallels between Misty Valley and Elfhelm, and the Sovereign of the Flower Storm and Rochine, either. Miura is great at that sort of thing. I hadn't thought about a parallel between Griffith and the Sovereign of the Flower Storm, though. That's an interesting idea.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 346
« Reply #69 on: August 24, 2016, 04:01:17 PM »
Btw, this is probably talked about a long time ago (I'm pretty sure), but does Puck from the comedy count as inspiration for our little elf in Berserk as well?

The character and name of Puck dates back to way before that play. He's a character from folklore, which is where Miura gets most of his inspiration from.

Anyone else think that the gender of the Sovereign of the Flower Storm will help in Casca's recovery? For example, in terms of the rape and Casca's feelings etc.

I don't think that will have any bearing on it, no. Beyond gender, remember that elves aren't like humans. They are of a different nature. Furthermore, while they have attributes like breasts and such, they are asexual as far as we know.

Online Rupert Sinclair

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Re: Episode 346
« Reply #70 on: August 24, 2016, 04:11:49 PM »
Perfect.

Offline Arvin

Re: Episode 346
« Reply #71 on: August 24, 2016, 04:17:39 PM »
Thanks a lot for the summary Aaz and Puela!

Absolutely fantastic episode.

The diversity of denizens from this Island and the richness of the deep folkloric overtones shown in this episode are a tremendous joy to see and feel.

I also enjoyed seeing Serpico "courted" and taken by the wind folk. In the same page there's this wide big panel of Farnese and Casca caught by the plethora of astral creatures in this sort of joyous march. I'm reminded of Miura's take on the Garden of Earthly Delights on episode 306, this time presenting what feels like a much more lighthearted and friendly march here. There's even an elf that resembles Irvine with the bycocket-esque hat and the musical instrument, some form of violin, so can't say she's missing a bow either!!  :ganishka:

Schierke's guess about the boy was based on very general information though, so it wasn't a specific indication of what kind of avatar the Elf ...Leader... can take. Especially since her assumption about the boy is mistaken.

Yup, it's just the contemplation of the idea simply being raised by Schierke, added to the concept brought up by Ivalera and being somewhat illustrated by Isma's case, even though Isma may not be a proper astral creature or elf, and had been at the time our only example (although Ivalera does say in a relatively including manner that elves, spirits and other kins have a true or secret name that governs their true form). The idea just felt plausible and appealing to me, both in-universe due to these related enough elements and based on fairy-folk tales across the world.

As I was reading yesterday in one encyclopedia, fairy tales are ridden by all sorts of elf-folk that come in the most diverse sizes and shapes, as well as often enough the capability to shapeshift.

I find it really crafty from Miura's part how he's able to keep firmly rooted to a lot of the source inspiration while not feeling necessarily limited by it. A lot of the fantasy content feels very close to a lot of folk-tale sources, yet in some ways it also feels like its own thing. My impression of course.

Relating to that, it's interesting to see Miura keeping the tradition of centaurs being male gendered (at least all the ones we have seen in this episode). Makes for an interesting counterpart to the, at least so far, all female merrows. It also makes me wonder how (if?) these folk are able to reproduce, or how some of these astral denizens come to be. I hope we can get some more hints about the nature of these beings in the next episode, or if not in future conversations there at Elfhelm.

Another curious folk from this episode to me are the horned and deer-faced folk, they remind me of the image of Cernnunos, thought to be a celtic "horned god", so it strikes close to home to a lot of these folk source inspiration. The antique imagery of this idol is depicted among wolves, deers and other animals too, so it's quite reminiscent.



Still entranced by all the imagery in this episode. What a celebration for this long awaited meeting.

Offline Pink-Dark-Boy

Re: Episode 346
« Reply #72 on: August 24, 2016, 04:25:51 PM »
Thanks for the summary! I read through it a tad and one thing that has my interest is "the element of weight". Just for clarification, would I be correct in assuming it is related with gravity? If so, then I guess it would explain the dilation of time from Skellig to the outside world.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 346
« Reply #73 on: August 24, 2016, 04:40:58 PM »
Thanks for the summary! I read through it a tad and one thing that has my interest is "the element of weight". Just for clarification, would I be correct in assuming it is related with gravity?

Yes, that and other things.

I'm reminded of Miura's take on the Garden of Earthly Delights on episode 306, this time presenting what feels like a much more lighthearted and friendly march here.

Agreed, I had the same thought. And like Griff and I discussed earlier with Griffith, Ubik's version feels like a perversion of the "original" that is shown here.

even though Isma may not be a proper astral creature or elf

I think she can be called an astral creature by all means, even though she's half-human (like every Merrow?). Not an elf, though (and not all of the creatures we saw gathered in that clearing were elves either).

I find it really crafty from Miura's part how he's able to keep firmly rooted to a lot of the source inspiration while not feeling necessarily limited by it. A lot of the fantasy content feels very close to a lot of folk-tale sources, yet in some ways it also feels like its own thing. My impression of course.

I agree, and it's something I've long professed. I've always thought of it as a very impressive feat on Miura's part, actually.

Relating to that, it's interesting to see Miura keeping the tradition of centaurs being male gendered (at least all the ones we have seen in this episode). Makes for an interesting counterpart to the, at least so far, all female merrows.

And the fox-beings seem to all be female as well, while the deer ones are male.

Offline Gobolatula

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Re: Episode 346
« Reply #74 on: August 24, 2016, 04:42:44 PM »

Got bored.