Author Topic: The Four Kings VS God Hand  (Read 2437 times)

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Offline TryThisOne

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The Four Kings VS God Hand
« on: September 22, 2016, 07:43:57 PM »
Hello Everybody!!
First of all I want to thank the administrators that allowed me to access!  :slan:

I’m new to this great forum and I would like to share with you my thoughts!
I apologize for my English and I remind you that this is just a funny speculation that intrigues me. Please feel free to comment/criticize my ideas  :ganishka:.
There are similar topics here but what I’m going to tell is a little bit different:

lets start… (hope you'll like it  :carcus:)

The Speculation

Basically I think that the God Hand is a sort of fake/distorted copy of the Four Kings. The God Hand emulates in part appearances and modus operandi of them. Based on this maybe they probably were born later then the Kings (that instead could be eternal?)
Anyway, now its time for some appearance comparison:


‘ATE – King of Air’ VS ‘VOID’
 


You can easily notice some ‘big’ resemblances:
  • The big head 
  • The big cloak
Ate is the first King called by Schierke (Vol 25), as a sort of Big Chief of the Kings (Miura dedicates 2 pages while the others have ‘only’ one page). And we know that Void is the leader of the God Hand.


‘VE – King of Water’ VS ‘SLAN’
 


  • Both are feminine figures (notice the hips of VE);
  • The water flows around VE resemble the wings the ‘cover’ Slan.


‘Gedula – King of Fire’ VS ‘UBIK’
 


Here it is my weak point… maybe.
So, what do Gedula and Ubik have in common? I’ll tell you… NOTHING… as far as we know .. But, here I could make a comparison for opposite characteristics:
  • Ubik is small, ugly and apparently weak (just in appearance)
  • Gedula is tall, beautiful and strong (?)


‘Markt – King of Earth’ VS ‘Conrad’


 
Probably the easiest comparison:
  • Both have robust bodies;
  • Both have in common also the element, the earth (too many times we have seen Conrad manipulating and interacting with the ground).
… maybe they are twins :troll:

Also notice the order of King Introduction in Vol 25 (the same I presented to you above) matches the order of God Hand re-presentation in Vol 13 when Phemt reborns. Just a coincidence? Maybe…

And… Griffith/Femto?
Well, Griffith is the Last and Fifth member, the Special one that reincarnates in the Physical World. For this reason he does not have a match in my schema.


Evocation of Kings and God Hand

We can notice a sort of similitude between the two rites:
  • Men invoke Spirits (Kings) with magic (a form of prayer) to ask help to gain protection;
  • Man invoke God Hand with desperation to ask help in order to overcome pain.
I simplified a little bit  :griffnotevil:. But I could argue that the two ’processes’ have the same intent: ‘talking to God’.

OK, I stop know at this point and I’ll continue later.
Sorry for some language and formatting mistakes I made, but I wrote in a rush.

Share your thoughts!!  :beast:
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 04:41:19 AM by TryThisOne »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: The Four Kings VS God Hand
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2016, 08:06:58 PM »
Hello TryThisOne and welcome.

Here are my thoughts on your idea.

Basically I think that the God Hand is a sort of fake/distorted copy of the Four Kings. The God Hand emulates in part appearances and modus operandi of them. Based on this maybe they probably were born later then the Kings (that instead could be eternal?)

That seems rather unlikely. First off, the obvious: there are five members of the God Hand and four elemental kings. So right from the start, it just doesn't work. I also don't think there are too many similarities between them, and they don't really fulfill the same kind of roles either. Finally, I think there is absolutely no doubt that the kings predate the God Hand.

You can easily notice some ‘big’ resemblances:
  • The big head 
  • The big cloak
Ate is the first King called by Schierke (Vol 25), as a sort of Big Chief of the Kings (Miura dedicates 2 pages while the others have ‘only’ one page). And we know that Void is the leader of the God Hand.

There is no known hierarchy between the four kings. I don't know why you're pretending otherwise here. The fact there was a double page means nothing. The heads have nothing in common. And the "cloak" is an extremely superficial detail too in the present case. Given that he is the king of air, a comparison to Femto, whose nickname is the Wings of Darkness, would be more apt. It'd still be super far-fetched though.

‘VE – King of Water’ VS ‘SLAN’
  • Both are feminine figures (notice the hips of VE);
  • The water flows around VE resemble the wings the ‘cover’ Slan.

The kings are genderless as far as we know. And that parallel between water spiraling and wings covering Slan in a single panel out of the entire manga... That's super weak.

‘Gedula – King of Fire’ VS ‘UBIK’
Here it is my weak point… maybe.
So, what do Gedula and Ubik have in common? I’ll tell you… NOTHING… as far as we know .. But, here I could make a comparison for opposite characteristics:
  • Ubik is small, ugly and apparently weak (just in appearance)
  • Gedula is tall, beautiful and strong (?)

Indeed, they have nothing in common... And neither do the others.

‘Markt – King of Earth’ VS ‘Conrad’
Probably the easiest comparison:
  • Both have robust bodies;
  • Both have in common also the element, the earth (too many times we have seen Conrad manipulating and interacting with the ground).
… maybe they are twins :troll:

Too many times? Conrad has no association with the element of earth that we know of. He came out of the ground during the Eclipse, that's all. Slan also did. It means nothing. What Conrad is associated with are rats and disease. And their bodies don't really look like each other at all either. Conrad's got a very weird body that's more horizontal than vertical, which isn't the case of the elemental king.

And… Griffith/Phemt?
Well, Griffith is the Last and Fifth member, the Special one that reincarnates in the Physical World. For this reason he does not have a match in my schema.

The name is spelled Femto. And your excuse for his omission is unsatisfying. There is basically no ground to any of this.

We can notice a sort of similitude between the two rites:
  • Men invoke Spirits (Kings) with magic (a form of prayer) to ask help to gain protection;
  • Man invoke God Hand with desperation to ask help in order to overcome pain.
I simplified a little bit  :griffnotevil:. But I could argue that the two ’processes’ have the same intent: ‘talking to God’.

Specious parallel. Different motives, different methods to achieve it, different beings, different results. And neither ritual has the intent of talking to God.

Offline Mammon

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Re: The Four Kings VS God Hand
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2016, 11:25:11 PM »
Hi!
That's a well presented post, but when we have a theory sometimes we see things because we want to see them...

3 or so years ago I wrote an essay comparing Berserk and Shin Angyo Onshi (or "Blade of the Phantom Master");
my premise was that while I love SAO (my second favorite manhwa), I was pretty sure that Youn In-wan was a Berserk fan; too many ressemblances between the characters & story.

But after lengthy sessions of scanning, making picture comparisons, parallels between these 2 stories, etc, I gave up because I was starting to see things/arrange them in my head to fit in.

Like, in the manga Slan has been associated with fire more than water, and Femto with wind more than any other God Hand.

An interesting example, your Conrad comparison, you think "earth" because "water" was already taken, but during the Sea God arc (2011-ish) there was an April fool preview (made by some members of this forum) in which Conrad was present;
And a lot of fans all over internet suddenly thought that Conrad really looked aquatic, crustacean (like an isopod to be more precise) and it all made sense.
(borrowing your pictures Aaz)






And he does have a design like that, but will his "type" matter in the end? I doubt it...

The Skullknight April fool thread in question is there, if you're curious: http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=12507.0;nowap
The fake preview picture got reposted on 4chan's /a/ lots of times before the reveal, with amusing results.

I need to re-read it myself, if I remembered the circumstances incorrectly I'll edit my post...

Long days and pleasant nights  :daiba:
« Last Edit: September 22, 2016, 11:55:48 PM by Mammon »

Offline TryThisOne

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Re: The Four Kings VS God Hand
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2016, 06:04:04 AM »
Hello Aazealh and Mammon!
Thank you very much for your posts. It seems that only you care about me   :judo:

Just before posting the second part, it would be really interesting to know what you think about an ‘hypothetical’ relationship between the God Hand and the Four Kings.

And of course all of guys who read this topic post your theories:

•   Do you think that the God Hand and the Four Kings have nothing in common (and so the resemblances are simply coincidences) or there is something (at the moment not clear) that put them in relationship?

C’mon don’t be shy.. I can smell you  :beast:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: The Four Kings VS God Hand
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2016, 06:51:41 AM »
Just before posting the second part, it would be really interesting to know what you think about an ‘hypothetical’ relationship between the God Hand and the Four Kings.

I don't think there's really any relationship to be found. The one major similarity is that they're two groups of very powerful spiritual beings who oversee certain aspects of the world. In that regard, maybe the God Hand was originally created to reproduce the structure of the natural world, but for mankind's collective psyche. Each member of the God Hand has his own domain and role in relation to humanity, just like each king oversees his own element. Comparing details or trying to find similarities beyond that is futile as far as I'm concerned.

Offline TryThisOne

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Re: The Four Kings VS God Hand
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2016, 07:48:42 PM »
The one major similarity is that they're two groups of very powerful spiritual beings who oversee certain aspects of the world.
In that regard, maybe the God Hand was originally created to reproduce the structure of the natural world, but for mankind's collective psyche. Each member of the God Hand has his own domain and role in relation to humanity, just like each king oversees his own element.

Well, It is exactly what I think about them and by far the most logical reasoning that we could make today with the elements we have. With this Aazealh you’re anticipating a little bit my second part  :ubik::

very briefly:
  • God Hand was created after the Four Kings;
  • In ancient time, who created the God Hand maybe used as 'inspiration' what already existed (and maybe the Four Kings were worshiped by all humankind?). This may explain some physical resemblances;
  • But it is important to understand the God Hand are not the Four Kings. We are talking about two distinct things:
    • For example the most obvious is that the Kings are four and the God Hand are five;
    • But also the fact that each God Hand member as an element but it is not the basic as for the Kings (we have seen Slan associated to Fire, earth, lust and so on.. I believe others members too);
    • for these reasons we will never have a perfect matching, but the best pattern possible (and my first post was an attempt).


    great,
    hope to post as soon as possible this second part in details  :carcus:
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 04:34:08 AM by TryThisOne »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: The Four Kings VS God Hand
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2016, 09:34:48 PM »
I don't think you really got my point. I don't agree at all that there are "physical resemblances" between the God Hand and the Four Elemental Kings of the world. I also don't think there is a strong case for comparison beyond what I outlined.