Was Rosine evil?

[Skull]

Do any of you believe Rosine is evil?

[Aazealh]

All apostles are evil. That is what they are. But in spite of that, as the story shows, her character had many nuances to it.

[DANGERDOOOOM]

Do any of you believe Rosine is evil?

Because of her actions as an apostle, they can be defined as evil. From what I feel, she was very unaware of her consequences because of her young age. Though, sacrificing your parents in order to become an apostle doesn't excuse her actions, even if she was abused by her father. For Rosine it was all part of becoming something from her fantasies; to escape her abusive family life and live the life she always wanted. She showed true heartfelt emotions for her friend Jill and seemed to care deeply for her, longing for Jill to run away and be with her and play together forever with no worries, which other than the Count, we see that an apostle can show sympathy and compassion which takes away from their "evil" nature.

In reality, evil is all a matter of perspective. From Rosine's perspective, Guts was the evil doer trying to take everything away from her, while in her mind her actions deemed to be helpful and good.

But since this is a story about the struggle of man vs. apostles, we have to categorize her character as someone who is evil.

[Walter]

In reality, evil is all a matter of perspective. From Rosine's perspective, Guts was the evil doer trying to take everything away from her, while in her mind her actions deemed to be helpful and good.

But since this is a story about the struggle of man vs. apostles, we have to categorize her character as someone who is evil.

It's actually not very subtle:

[Griffith]

Besides being, like, clinically evil as Aaz and Wally point out, she was also responsible for a lot of wanton death, destruction, and suffering from a practical standpoint; all things typically considered evil to society. Particularly the kidnapping, corruption, and ultimate demise of dozens or more children. On that ground alone you could argue she's one of the most heinous apostles ever presented, the worst kind of monster. She may have seemed like a child herself and merely ignorant of the consequences in the process, but she wasn't, and I think that's where the literally being evil part really comes into play because she just didn't care at all. Even her remorse in the end wasn't for the obvious loss and devastation she caused others, but her selfish own. Same for the Count, sure he could feel for his own flesh and blood, but he gave no thought to the hundreds if not thousands of others he'd put through Hell. That's the true nature of an Apostle.

Now that we've settled that, do you guys think Griffith is maybe kind of a jerk?

[Skull]

Because of her actions as an apostle, they can be defined as evil. From what I feel, she was very unaware of her consequences because of her young age. Though, sacrificing your parents in order to become an apostle doesn't excuse her actions, even if she was abused by her father. For Rosine it was all part of becoming something from her fantasies; to escape her abusive family life and live the life she always wanted. She showed true heartfelt emotions for her friend Jill and seemed to care deeply for her, longing for Jill to run away and be with her and play together forever with no worries, which other than the Count, we see that an apostle can show sympathy and compassion which takes away from their "evil" nature.

In reality, evil is all a matter of perspective. From Rosine's perspective, Guts was the evil doer trying to take everything away from her, while in her mind her actions deemed to be helpful and good.

But since this is a story about the struggle of man vs. apostles, we have to categorize her character as someone who is evil.

I think she was aware of her actions she just didn't care. She said something like "It's alright I can just make new friends." when the elves were killing each other in that mock war. How Rosine and the Count treated their loved ones seemed selfish to me they both treated them like objects instead of people. The Count kept his daughter locked in her room with no freedom and Rosine was going to turn Jill into an elf despite the fact she did not want to be one.

Besides being, like, clinically evil as Aaz and Wally point out, she was also responsible for a lot of wanton death, destruction, and suffering from a practical standpoint; all things typically considered evil to society. Particularly the kidnapping, corruption, and ultimate demise of dozens or more children. On that ground alone you could argue she's one of the most heinous apostles ever presented, the worst kind of monster. She may have seemed like a child herself and merely ignorant of the consequences in the process, but she wasn't, and I think that's where the literally being evil part really comes into play because she just didn't care at all. Even her remorse in the end wasn't for the obvious loss and devastation she caused others, but her selfish own. Same for the Count, sure he could feel for his own flesh and blood, but he gave no thought to the hundreds if not thousands of others he'd put through Hell. That's the true nature of an Apostle.

Now that we've settled that, do you guys think Griffith is maybe kind of a jerk?

Exactly, when she was dying all she thought about was how she was disappointed that she wasn't a real elf and that they never really existed. I haven't the slightest clue what Griffin is thinking but I believe he honestly does not care for Casca or Guts anymore and that he just views them as toys or tools at best.

It's actually not very subtle:

So what does that mean? Does the sacrifice affect more than just their bodies?

All apostles are evil. That is what they are. But in spite of that, as the story shows, her character had many nuances to it.

Ok.

[Aazealh]

From what I feel, she was very unaware of her consequences because of her young age.

That is not what the story tells us. Rosine wasn't a 6 year old, she was a teenager, and she understood what she was doing. She was somewhat immature about it, but she knew nevertheless.

So what does that mean? Does the sacrifice affect more than just their bodies?

The sacrifice does not actually affect their body directly. It affects their soul. And when the soul is twisted, corrupted, that is reflected on the body (i.e. it acquires monstrous, supernatural properties). That is why once an apostle dies (and their soul is taken to the Vortex of Souls) their body reverts to its normal, human form.

[Skull]

That is not what the story tells us. Rosine wasn't a 6 year old, she was a teenager, and she understood what she was doing. She was somewhat immature about it, but she knew nevertheless.

The sacrifice does not actually affect their body directly. It affects their soul. And when the soul is twisted, corrupted, that is reflected on the body (i.e. it acquires monstrous, supernatural properties). That is why once an apostle dies (and their soul is taken to the Vortex of Souls) their body reverts to its normal, human form.

Ok.

[Ruhe Strom]

Perhaps not all apostles start off inherently evil, but would it not be appropriate to say that so far, each one has shown an intense amount of selfishness and weakness when faced with their lives?

Although having said that, the egg-shaped apostle is something of an outlier.

[Aazealh]

Perhaps not all apostles start off inherently evil

As humans? No. They're also the victims of shitty life circumstances. But once they sacrifice, they are in fact inherently evil.

[Pink-Dark-Boy]

Just to answer the thread, I sympathize with Rosine. But my feelings of sympathy doesnt justify the horrific deeds she's commited during her time as an apostle. Therefore, I view Rosine as evil.

[The Wack Swordsman]

I don't know for sure how to think of this matter.

Apostles sure did something very evil but that doesn't mean they're doing evil all the time...

We've seen many apostles indulge in evil in even the most disturbing ways while we also have apostles that seem like they just accepted the evil they inherited after their sacrifice and remain quite passive like Irvine who isolates himself (though we don't know what he does on other times... Or what he hunts).

Other apostles still have lots of control over themselves which is a noticeably feature (since most of them are diluted uncontrollable psychos) due to their nature as the person they always were.

Grunbeld, Locus and even Zodd also belong in this category. They're not much different from normal humans... You might say the only difference is the power that was granted to them and the license to do whatever the fuck they wanted to do.

Turn into a monster and wreak havoc? No problem.
Turn into a monster and act human? Sure why not. It both works for them.
Be a human? That's a hard one. (Maybe the count got dragged into the maelstrom since he did something rather humane. Who says that the progress isn't reversable?)

So yes. Apostles are evil but some of them have intentions that could differ from being evil.
It also doesn't mean they aren't capable of doing good sometimes.

As for Rosine... We  got to see why she turned out being evil, we got to see what chaos she caused, how she used humans as mere puppets and how she manipulated children. She was evil but I think she also had some good left in her when it came to Jill. 

The complete nature of the apostle still has some mystery to it.
We've seen apostles helping humans because Griffith ordered them to do so...
But we've seen apostles helping humans by their own choice like the Count and Rosine (whether it was for themselves or not).

[brokenknight]

Ok.

Everyone makes some amazing points.

I just finished the Lost Children Arc last night and I was not expecting to be more distraught right after the eclipse...

That being said as with people have said, Rosine knew what she was doing, maybe not the full implication but she knew enough and still acted the way she did. I would say she was evil. Childish, selfish and evil.