Author Topic: Star Wars: The Last Jedi  (Read 5031 times)

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Online Griffith

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Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« on: January 23, 2017, 06:38:16 PM »


Rian Johnson is already showing off superior writing skills with his Episode VIII title. Simple, elegant, and to the point (and at least *A* point), if a bit generic. My main critique is that if this wasn't already an old EU title, it sounds like it would have been (edit: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Last_Jedi yep, and so recent too, my favorite part is it was only called that because the other generic, Jedi-centric title the author wanted was already used lol).

The red logo with the title is a nice RotJ callback too, plus the obvious message that THERE WILL BE BLOOD (or cauterized wounds)! As everyone will note the title can be singular and/or plural as needed. I don't like it as a sign for Luke's odds of making it out of the movie as anything but a force ghost though. But, sadly, perhaps Carrie Fisher's death helps his chances if they need to transfer unfinished family business to him. On that subject, at some point I'd like for them to arrange a warrior's death for her in a major space battle or something, dying for the cause, and a viking funeral, rather than some of the nonsense ideas I've heard like recasting (get real) or cgi (gross).

In cases like this I feel sticking closer to the truth, she died tragically, is better than trying some unconvincing cinematic gymnastics to keep the dead alive. Let it work for the story and honor her accordingly rather than try swiming against such a powerful current.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 06:51:55 PM by Griffith »

Offline Walter

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2017, 07:13:32 PM »
Nice. Very interested in learning about Luke's role in this new arc, and the kind of man he's become over the years.

As for the title, sure it's THE LAST JEDI -- until Episode X. "Well Luke was the last Jedi -- from a certain point of view."



December 15, 2017 doesn't sound too far away anymore.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2017, 07:42:31 PM »
Nice. Very interested in learning about Luke's role in this new arc, and the kind of man he's become over the years.

Of course, that was my main draw to the last movie and this revival in general, and they managed to defer it for another movie. It worked though! Hopefully, this means we can really focus in on Luke, Rey and the rest with the restart out of the way.

Quote
As for the title, sure it's THE LAST JEDI -- until Episode X.

And they only just "Returned" a movie before technically, though they were or are ever really gone.  Episode IX - Revamp of the Jedi.

Quote
"Well Luke was the last Jedi -- from a certain point of view."

Careful with that talk... :magni:


Offline MrFlibble

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2017, 03:07:45 PM »
I don't like the title, we've already had a "Last Jedi" scenario in episode VI. It's a strecth but the red font has my hopes up, hopefully it means the story will take a dark or unexpected turn.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2017, 05:43:31 PM »
I don't like the title, we've already had a "Last Jedi" scenario in episode VI. It's a strecth but the red font has my hopes up, hopefully it means the story will take a dark or unexpected turn.

Well, technically that was the Return of the... Last Jedi. :carcus: I don't have a problem with the similarity because I'm assuming they pretty clearly mean the opposite. Return of the Jedi was a rousing, triumphant return and redemption story whereas this sounds like it has a more dire connotation; the last Jedi as in an endangered species on the verge of finally being wiped out. Which will likely be the main aim of the villains this time: Kill Luke and Rey before he can make her a Jedi (it's already stated in TFA that if Luke returns the "new Jedi" will rise, which could just mean Rey as the chosen one and/or the Jedi as an order). Just be glad it's not called Rise of the Jedi given what a popular naming convention that's become, it's like the "resurrection" of today. Episode IX: Rise of the New Jedi Resurrection!

Also, as Mark Hamil himself noted, you gotta dig the poignant Samurai vibe it has.

Offline Arc

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2017, 09:02:16 PM »
Get hyyyypee, it's in moments like these I have to return to the starwars gangsta rap.  :guts:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij4w7ChpuaM

But for real I am pretty excited for this- good or bad. I hope they decide to give Chewbacca more screen time; I need to see him rip a stormtroopers arm off. Hopefully after ~35 years Hamill will finally be able to play a cooler version of Luke to solidify his Badass ranking up there with Yoda and Obi-wan.

I really liked Rey's character and I only see it getting better with time. Hopefully they will be able to make Kylo Ren feel like more of a formidable villan- after the first movie he seemed pretty whiny to me, like a dark side version of Luke from Ep IV.

As for the title I feel like it strongly suggests the entire movie will be based around Luke and maybe even cover what happened after Ep VI where Luke was "The Last Jedi" and then the tragedies that led him to where he is now. I'm not trying to suggest it will be a flashback movie or anything, just that I think we will see some of these things explained in further detail.

Edit: Forgot to say that as much as the movie I am SUPER excited for another score from John Williams, that stuff is good for the soul.
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Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2017, 09:27:11 PM »
Just be glad it's not called Rise of the Jedi given what a popular naming convention that's become, it's like the "resurrection" of today. Episode IX: Rise of the New Jedi Resurrection!

Don't you mean "Rise of the last new jedi's resurrection"  :carcus:

That said, I have yet to watch episode VII and rogue one (even if that one is a stand alone)

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2017, 10:56:12 PM »
Get hyyyypee, it's in moments like these I have to return to the starwars gangsta rap.  :guts:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij4w7ChpuaM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp-Ys_iFwnM

I'm an OG trilogy only guy, no special editions. :griffnotevil:

But for real I am pretty excited for this- good or bad.

Why would you be excited for it to be bad, though? You're excitement can be conditional on the prospect of it being good. =)

Hopefully after ~35 years Hamill will finally be able to play a cooler version of Luke to solidify his Badass ranking up there with Yoda and Obi-wan.

Actually, a big problem to me with post-Jedi EU Luke is the tendency to make him overpowered. I think that has more to do with our own desires than what we saw of him or the force in the original trilogy (the Emperor kicked his ass at will, but Luke was tenaciously pious and willing to accept defeat). I'd like to see them make his relationship to the force more complicated and him vulnerable as a consequence, even if he's figured out how to blow up planets with his mind (show the burden of his power, but without being a killjoy). There's just been major force power creep since that movie, even Vader and Yoda were mortal back then (and Obi Wan was a "weak old man" =), but it went from being like a special innate telepathy ability that could be developed into telekinesis to any manner of fucking super power. Like, originally the force could help you make a jump shot from half court if you practiced, but then in the EU and prequels people started dunking from there with the force. Take it back down a notch. I think TFA was a good balance where Rey and Kylo were very powerful because of the force, but it was still based on their abilities and skills rather than just instant power winning or losing.

That said, I have yet to watch episode VII and rogue one (even if that one is a stand alone)

Definitely check out TFA just for the wish fulfillment aspect (good or bad! =), but Rogue One is as unessential and skippable as it was designed to be. Or, use your 1000th post to explain why you don't want to watch them, if that's the case.

Offline Sancho

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2017, 11:49:14 PM »
I feel a disturbance in the Force. It tells me Luke is not making out alive.

I was of the opinion that this new trilogy was totally unnecessary to begin with since when Episode VII was announced and i remain such now. Episode VII had VERY great flaws, the director Abrams didn't know the S of Star Wars and the whole concept of the Force. The prequels had their flaws too sure, but at least they pictured the whole settings and universe of Star Wars during the Republic as it has been conceived by its creator.
The Jedi, Yoda mostly, didn't speak wise and crypting lines just for the sake of it, George Lucas had a clear idea of the whole philosophy behind the Force (being its creator  :ganishka:). The same cannot be said for character Maz Kanata in TFA sadly, who instead seems really a character just put there, spitting random lines, just for the sake of getting new casual viewers more accustomed with the Force.
And i think the Expanded Universe was just good as it was, it had both low, sure, but also high quality contents.

If only the villain Kylo Ren was a bit more.... intimidating, i would feel a lot more excited to see how they're gonna deal with him, but instead he has been underwhelmingly built like some stereotypical conflicted and insecure young man who rebels to his parents and all. I hope at least Supreme Leader Snoke has some surprise and plot twist to show in the next 2 episodes regarding his identity and past, for now i don't like him at all, he seems too much of a bland character, but i don't want to make hasty judgements.

Let's hope this new director will be a bit more.... "creative" than the last one.

Offline Arc

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2017, 11:51:01 PM »
I'm an OG trilogy only guy, no special editions. :griffnotevil:

Haha I actually had them both open when i was writing that post.
Definitely have fond memories of the original. Me and a few of my pals actually did this for our senior year talent show- I was vader and had a suit that was waaaay too small for me. Turned out pretty well though, many laughs were had.

Why would you be excited for it to be bad, though? You're excitement can be conditional on the prospect of it being good. =)

Conceded.

There's just been major force power creep since that movie, even Vader and Yoda were mortal back then (and Obi Wan was a "weak old man")

Woa woa now I wasn't trying to imply that he needed prequel level battle skills. I mean badass like Obi-wan who was man enough to come out of exile and ends up disabling some of the defences on the Deathstar and throwing down with Vader. Badass like Yoda who lived in exile on a very force sensitive planet- I mean Luke's relationship with the force was amplified there. Just walking around he confronted one of his greatest aversions, I imagine Yoda would have been confronted in a similar way many times in the 20 odd years he was living there. Yoda's got some badass wisdom, no doubt. Hopefully Luke can live up to his masters.

I'd like to see them make his relationship to the force more complicated and him vulnerable as a consequence...

I feel like you may get just what you want, the stage is set! There is already a potential scar upon the piousness that let him convert Vader and take down the Emp. I can only imagine the effects it would have had on him when he had his students cut down. I could definitely see it straining his relationship with the force. I wonder what he would see if he went back to Dagobah.
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Offline Skeleton

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2017, 05:27:38 AM »
For some reason, everyone and their mom was deadset on seeing Luke bite the bullet in Episode 8. It looks like that might just happen.

Personally I think the title refers to something else entirely:

Quote from: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi script
[The film starts where TFA ended.]

REY: Luke, here's your old lightsaber. Can you train me as a Jedi now?

LUKE: I'm afraid I can't.

REY: Why?

LUKE: Because I'm not a Jedi. I never completed the training to be a Jedi knight. And Yoda said the training had to be completed.

REY: But on his deathbed didn't Yoda say "lolz jk, just kill Vader and we'll call it even?"

LUKE: Yes, but that was just shitty writing so they wouldn't have to tie up the loose ends from the previous film.

REY: Well damn.  So how am I supposed to become a Jedi if you can't train me?

LUKE: While searching for temples all these years I found someone who can train you. He's the final living Jedi.

REY: You mean he's the Last Jedi?

LUKE: Yes, the Last Jedi. Now go to him, learn the ways of the Jedi, and become a Jedi so when he dies immediately after your completion you'll become The Last Jedi.

REY: Ok. See you later.

LUKE: Not likely. The Knights of Ren are going to show up and kill me right after you leave. By the way, I'm your father. Have a good trip.

[Scene 2: Rey lands on a strange, distant planet. Looking into the distance is a robed figure. His two mechanical hands are behind his back.]

REY: Are you the Last Jedi?

[The figure turns around, revealing a heavily scarred and aged Mace Windu.]

MACE: Yes, I am.

REY: I want to become a Jedi.

MACE: Then let's start this motherfucking training on this motherfucking planet!


Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2017, 02:39:23 PM »
Definitely check out TFA just for the wish fulfillment aspect (good or bad! =), but Rogue One is as unessential and skippable as it was designed to be. Or, use your 1000th post to explain why you don't want to watch them, if that's the case.

Well I wanted to save my 1000th post for a new episode but oh well, busted! I did not watch TFA because as much as I like Star wars, I've never felt the need to rush on it. Apparently it's been on netflix for a while so I will take some time for it.

Rogue One never really interested me. I don't really care for little tie-in like that and well we know they will succeed in getting the plans and deliver them to the rebels etc etc. So no, I don't feel the need to watch how it happened. I probably will watch at some point, but when?

I'm more anxious to watch my new dragon ball super episode you know... as cheesy as it is, it's a good sunday morning-coffee-waking-show...

I'm actually not very good at watching new movies.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2017, 05:45:54 AM »
I was bored: http://transinsano.deviantart.com/art/Star-Wars-The-Last-Jedi-Poster-Mockup-659682375

I guess I should also upload my semi-internet famous Guts vs. Musashi mockup! Get the credit I deserve... as the hack I am. :carcus:

I was of the opinion that this new trilogy was totally unnecessary to begin with since when Episode VII was announced and i remain such now. Episode VII had VERY great flaws, the director Abrams didn't know the S of Star Wars and the whole concept of the Force. The prequels had their flaws too sure, but at least they pictured the whole settings and universe of Star Wars during the Republic as it has been conceived by its creator.
The Jedi, Yoda mostly, didn't speak wise and crypting lines just for the sake of it, George Lucas had a clear idea of the whole philosophy behind the Force (being its creator  :ganishka:).

I disagree with a lot of what you're saying. Your criticisms of TFA's "VERY great flaws" [Sad!] are ironic given that the flaws of Lucas' prequels are much the same in kind, only fatal, with little to no inherent mitigating or redemptive value. In general I think you're conflating authenticity with quality where they and Lucas are concerned. BUT, to your point, I find the last third of this video fascinating (skip to about the 2 minute mark):

https://youtu.be/t5TGJquhP1s

It's fascinating to me for a couple of reasons, one very obvious and scarily relevant and insightful to the world today, the other a seemingly insignificant moment that may perfectly crystallize what's been lost between George Lucas' Star Wars, for better or worse, and Kathleen Kennedy's/Disney's hollow reproductions. It also reconciles how the same guy, whose thoughtfulness served the original films so well, and whose overinflated ego completely undermined that subsequently, could be responsible for both trilogies. Them's the breaks when you have an auteur, or a few, in charge as opposed to an overblown corporate focus group ("No time to discuss this in committee!"). That's what gives me hope for Rian Johnson, or anybody with talent and a point of view (so not Colin Trevorrow =), seemingly being given real creative control. Though, it remains to be seen if that holds true, bring on the annual reshoot stories, or yields a positive result; I may not agree with his reinterpretation of Star Wars, but at least I expect a more meaningful interpretation this time.

I'm actually not very good at watching new movies.

A worthy admission for a 1000th post, and at least you're good enough at that not to be banned or driven off in the process, so congratulations! :guts:
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 07:47:01 AM by Griffith »

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2017, 01:11:40 PM »
A worthy admission for a 1000th post, and at least you're good enough at that not to be banned or driven off in the process, so congratulations! :guts:

Well I figured I deserved it after roughly 10 years of hanging around here as a ghost.
But to stay on topic, reading this thread makes me want to watch TFA faster then planned. I might try it this weekend if the opportunity comes (I like to pretend I'm very busy.)

Joke aside I do have some recording to do this weekend so it might not happen.

(the last "new" movie I watched recently was green room on netflix, so you can have an idea how slow I am in getting up to date.)

Offline Oburi

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2017, 01:43:56 PM »

The Jedi, Yoda mostly, didn't speak wise and crypting lines just for the sake of it, George Lucas had a clear idea of the whole philosophy behind the Force (being its creator  :ganishka:).

That's not what I took away from the prequels. It seems more like Lucas doesn't really understand the very thing he helped to create in the first place.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2017, 03:13:17 PM »
Well I figured I deserved it after roughly 10 years of hanging around here as a ghost.
But to stay on topic, reading this thread makes me want to watch TFA faster then planned. I might try it this weekend if the opportunity comes (I like to pretend I'm very busy.)

Well, if it happens don't be a (force) ghost and let us know what you thought.

That's not what I took away from the prequels. It seems more like Lucas doesn't really understand the very thing he helped to create in the first place.
















Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2017, 03:44:11 PM »
Well, if it happens don't be a (force) ghost and let us know what you thought.

I certainly will now that I've been sucked in this conversation.  :carcus:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2017, 07:33:05 PM »
The prequels had their flaws too sure, but at least they pictured the whole settings and universe of Star Wars during the Republic as it has been conceived by its creator.

The prequels were a travesty. They were no different than any other cash grab like Matrix 2 and 3 and so on. "We'd planned it all along." Sure. The prequels ruined whatever quality existed within the Star Wars universe, as did 99% of the EU garbage.

Star Wars' recipe isn't complicated: it's an ultra classic fantasy story about a peasant boy who dreams of becoming a knight like his father was and guess what? He becomes one! And what do you know, it turns out he's the chosen one and has to save the kingdom (and get the princess) with the help of a few sidekicks. Vader is the Dark Knight (with the Flame Sword to counter Luke's Light Sword) and the Emperor is the Evil Wizard, and Obi Wan is the Old Sage who passes on the torch. None of this is original or super clever or anything. It's a story that was already being told a thousand years ago.

But George Lucas, after learning about the greatest Sci-Fi story of all times (Dune by Frank Herbert, which Jodorowsky had failed to turn into a movie), had the cleverness of switching it to a Sci-Fi context, which made it fresh again. And, being a scholar of cinema, he mixed in aerial battle scenes from his favorite WW2 movies. And that's it. There's nothing more to it, save of course for Lucas' collaborators who added all the other good stuff (fleshing out the characters and so on). And for the groundbreaking special effects, which are the real reason anyone still cares about Star Wars today (as Miura himself commented on when Ep VII came out). The Force doesn't have any depth to it or anything. It's just magic and is 100% lifted from the Asian concept of Qi. Jedi Knights might as well be called Magic Knights.

Anyway, none of that makes Star Wars bad. It was still a cool universe with a lot of potential. But that potential just wasn't delivered on after the original trilogy. I'm not gonna waste my time explaining why the prequels suck as it's been done to death, but they're easily among the worst stories I've ever been subjected to. Nothing about them was good, and that is in large part because Lucas never had any fucking idea what he was doing. He did not have a cohesive story or universe in mind from the beginning, and clearly did not come up with one during the making of the prequels. Episode VII was lackluster to me because it was a faux-sequel/half-reboot frankenstein monster and contained several dumb ideas, but by the mere virtue of following the template of the original trilogy (which is intemporally good as we've seen) it easily surpasses the prequels.

Offline Sareth

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2017, 11:08:04 PM »
As big a fan of Star Wars as I used to be, I just feel absolutely nothing about the upcoming movies. TFA killed all of my hype for the new trilogy. I never even bothered to watch any of the trailers for Rogue One (and still haven't bothered to go see it).

Offline Johnstantine

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2017, 05:25:31 PM »
He did not have a cohesive story or universe in mind from the beginning, and clearly did not come up with one during the making of the prequels.

Not trying to start an internet fight by any means, but Lucas had the outline for these stories written back in the 80s. So he did have a general idea of where things were going, he just executed it extremely poorly.

Quote
The prequels ruined whatever quality existed within the Star Wars universe, as did 99% of the EU garbage.

As I've said other times, the Clone Wars animated series is absolutely amazing and rekindled my love for Star Wars. I highly recommend it to anyone to watch.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2017, 05:37:19 PM »
He did not have a cohesive story or universe in mind from the beginning, and clearly did not come up with one during the making of the prequels.
Not trying to start an internet fight by any means, but Lucas had the outline for these stories written back in the 80s. So he did have a general idea of where things were going, he just executed it extremely poorly.

These things aren't mutually exclusive, and having some ideas or outlines aren't equal to having a cohesive story and universe planned out, plus his claims have changed so much on this front, including some obvious contradictions and outright lies about how it was "always meant to be X, Y, or Z," as to not be taken too seriously. On that note, here's another thought: those ideas and outlines probably weren't well thought out to begin with, so it's not just poor execution of some supposed master plan if the plan already sucked and was just rehashing more of the same BS, but worse. And considering what we got, that's the most likely and even obvious answer. I don't think Lucas shuttled a bunch of awesome ideas to do some bad shit on the fly as he was actually making the movies.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 05:47:29 PM by Griffith »

Offline Johnstantine

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2017, 06:08:11 PM »
These things aren't mutually exclusive, and having some ideas or outlines aren't equal to having a cohesive story and universe planned out, plus his claims have changed so much on this front, including some obvious contradictions and outright lies about how it was "always meant to be X, Y, or Z," as to not be taken too seriously. On that note, here's another thought: those ideas and outlines probably weren't well thought out to begin with, so it's not just poor execution of some supposed master plan if the plan already sucked and was just rehashing more of the same BS, but worse. And considering what we got, that's the most likely and even obvious answer. I don't think Lucas shuttled a bunch of awesome ideas to do some bad shit on the fly as he was actually making the movies.

As always, you sway my way of thinking. It makes sense when put like that, for sure.


Offline Hitoshura

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2017, 03:05:08 PM »
"Death's vastness holds no peace. I come at the end of the long road. Neither human, nor devil... all bends to my will" - Hitoshura

Offline Salem

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2017, 03:17:39 PM »
That poster is breathtaking.  Being truly honest, and I know this is a teaser, but my hype fizzled out on the last line a little.  Maybe just the way it was put together.  Still very excited.  Something like the Jedi ending for good is bound to happen and I hope the script delivers.

Offline Johnstantine

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2017, 03:19:25 PM »
Hnnnnnngh