Author Topic: The God Hand's Main Flaw  (Read 1852 times)

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Offline D!ABLO-32

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The God Hand's Main Flaw
« on: March 15, 2017, 08:04:55 PM »
Although the God Hand has admitted that they are not invincible as they are ďnot Gods after allĒ, thereís little weíve seen that can oppose their power... Even so, I do think that they have weaknesses and I suspect that they are aware of them... Their greatest strength is their ability to predict the flow of fate and causality almost to the tee...
I believe that they can fully predict events within the Mortal World (Corporeal Plain/Human World/Earth) and the actions of a human right down to the last molecule... However, the flaw with this ability is predicting the fates of individuals who are able to exist beyond the Mortal World i.e. the different layers of Astral Plain...
Examples of such individuals are as follows:
ē   Branded individuals, namely Guts and Casca, who are said to live within the Interstice because of their brands. Skull Knight also states that he lives within the Interstice as well.
ē   Magic-users such as Schierke, Daiba and Flora, who are able to release their Ethereal bodies into the Astral Plain at will.
ē   Other God Hand members (I think)... Although they work together, I donít believe they can accurately predict each otherís movements and actions based on what Slan said to Guts and SK in Qliphoth.
Not to say they canít predict Ehtereal beings, they can probably predict their fates 99% of the time... Itís that 1% that they canít predict that scares them... An example of this flaw is highlighted during the Eclipse where they failed to foresee Skull Knight gate-crashing the ceremony and rescuing Guts and Casca... Griffith had to send two of his Neo Hawks captains, Zodd and Grunbeld, and their squadrons to kill Flora because they know how dangerous a powerful witch can be to them... I also believe that being a magic-user gave Ganishka the confidence to oppose the God Hand even though he was an apostle: a servant of the God Hand...
Skull Knight created the Sword of Actuation to kill the God Hand (specifically Void) but, because he had to use it earlier than expected in Qliphoth, Griffith was able to foresee and counter SKís attack atop Ganishka... However, if someone were to create another weapon to kill them, the God Handís flaw may render them unable to take proper measures to counter the weapon, thus defeating them... Which is why I believe that this may compel the God Hand to attack Elfhelm, which is home to a number of Ethereal beings and magic-users.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 08:26:46 PM by D!ABLO-32 »

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: The God Hand's Main Flaw
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2017, 09:51:30 PM »
I was thinking the other day(and not totally believing in this theory) that their names could actually be their weakness. At the least for Femto. I was basing that on these facts :

They acquired a new name when the became a god hand. A new name for a spiritual body.

Later on, we learn that if you say the true name of an astral body/creature you can govern them. (Probably not this exact wording but you get the idea).

When Femto was incarnated he got a new body of flesh aka a physical one. Now pretty much nobody can hurt him for he is the absolute one.

What if someone (with a huge sword that cannot be called a sword) remembers that name that was mentioned once in the eclipse was to say it aloud? Would it work?

Now what makes me put this theory in the funny/probably-not-right section is that the god hand are not (at least I don't think so) pure astral beings. As in they were human before vs the other creatures that have always been what they are.

So I'm not sure it would work. Could force Griffith to show is real self in front of everybody. But still I'm not sure.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: The God Hand's Main Flaw
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2017, 10:18:42 PM »
Their greatest strength is their ability to predict the flow of fate and causality almost to the tee...

We don't know the extent to which individual members of the God Hand are able to "predict" things. The principle of causality guides a lot of what goes on in Berserk's world, and it is wielded by the Idea of Evil, the "God" that the God Hand serves. Whether it shares knowledge with its agents or they have this ability themselves (or only some of them have it) is unknown. You'll notice I haven't referred to "fate" here. That's because it's not a mystic force in Berserk. There's the notion of fate, as in the expression "meeting one's fate", but there's no Fate like in Greek mythology where things are predetermined and unstoppable. That role is played by the Idea of Evil's control of the world through causality.

I believe that they can fully predict events within the Mortal World (Corporeal Plain/Human World/Earth) and the actions of a human right down to the last molecule...

This is not what the story tells us. Rather, the Idea of Evil's control on the corporeal realm (and on mankind specifically) is so great that a normal human cannot escape its grasp. We are not led to believe that members of the God Hand know everything before it happens. Note that if they did, it'd make Sonia's role in the story completely pointless, since she works as Griffith's seer. That doesn't mean members of the God Hand can't feel things, like certain big events, or have other types of supernatural acumen, but likely not in the way you depict here.

However, the flaw with this ability is predicting the fates of individuals who are able to exist beyond the Mortal World i.e. the different layers of Astral Plain...
Examples of such individuals are as follows:
ē   Branded individuals, namely Guts and Casca, who are said to live within the Interstice because of their brands. Skull Knight also states that he lives within the Interstice as well.

If you read Guts' conversations with the Skull Knight, you'll find that people who exist within the Interstice between the Corporeal and the Astral realm (or plane if you want, but not "plain") are not at all outside of the flow of causality. But they are able, during particularly momentous events (which are called "Junctions of Times") where a lot of threads come together, to interfere in a minor way. Note that being in the Interstice isn't enough in itself. Apostles also exist within the Interstice and they're very much under the Idea of Evil's control.

ē   Magic-users such as Schierke, Daiba and Flora, who are able to release their Ethereal bodies into the Astral Plain at will.

Daiba is not able to do that as far as we know.

ē   Other God Hand members (I think)... Although they work together, I donít believe they can accurately predict each otherís movements and actions based on what Slan said to Guts and SK in Qliphoth.

While that is likely true, keep in mind that Slan is not a reliable source of information here. She told the Skull Knight she didn't care about the others because 1) that is true 2) she definitely wasn't going to tell him about it anyway.

Not to say they canít predict Ehtereal beings, they can probably predict their fates 99% of the time...

That is in fact unlikely. The Idea of Evil's power (and that of its servants) is entirely derived from mankind. Whether it is able to influence beings such as elves or spirits like the Lady of the Depths is not sure at all.

An example of this flaw is highlighted during the Eclipse where they failed to foresee Skull Knight gate-crashing the ceremony and rescuing Guts and Casca...

That is because the Eclipse was a "junction of times", a moment so significant that unexpected things can happen. Same thing for the Occultation ceremony or the advent of Fantasia.

I also believe that being a magic-user gave Ganishka the confidence to oppose the God Hand even though he was an apostle: a servant of the God Hand...

Ganishka was playing the role he was meant to. He was on rails all along, as the story showed. His life and death served the God Hand's needs to perfection.

Skull Knight created the Sword of Actuation to kill the God Hand (specifically Void)

No, not "specifically Void".

because he had to use it earlier than expected in Qliphoth, Griffith was able to foresee and counter SKís attack atop Ganishka...

From his dialogue, Femto didn't foresee it so much as logically guess it. Again, that event was a Junction of Times, a moment where unforeseen things can happen. And because the Skull Knight doesn't waste his efforts on futile endeavors, it was logical that he'd try to strike at that time. That's what Femto tells him. Also worth noting is that because the sword uses beherits, which are irremediably tied to the Idea of Evil, the Skull Knight's attempt might have been doomed to fail to begin with.

However, if someone were to create another weapon to kill them, the God Handís flaw may render them unable to take proper measures to counter the weapon, thus defeating them...

You're making it sound real easy to create a weapon that could kill the God Hand. Also, do you really believe that if a weapon were to strike down Femto, it could be anything other than the Dragon Slayer? Because... no. If it has to happen, it'll be the Dragon Slayer.

Which is why I believe that this may compel the God Hand to attack Elfhelm, which is home to a number of Ethereal beings and magic-users.

That's somewhat of a leap in logic. If they were to attack for that reason, they could have done so already. Also, no need for the weapon idea to justify their hypothetical decision to get rid of dangerous magic users.

When Femto was incarnated he got a new body of flesh aka a physical one. Now pretty much nobody can hurt him for he is the absolute one.

Nobody can hurt him because he's a member of the God Hand.

What if someone (with a huge sword that cannot be called a sword) remembers that name that was mentioned once in the eclipse was to say it aloud? Would it work?

Probably not. Otherwise the Skull Knight would have tried.

Now what makes me put this theory in the funny/probably-not-right section is that the god hand are not (at least I don't think so) pure astral beings. As in they were human before vs the other creatures that have always been what they are.

Other than Femto, the others don't have corporeal bodies. They exist solely within the Astral realm. But what you mean is that whatever rules apply to certain astral beings, like Merrow, might not apply to human-created magical entities. Which is indeed very possible.



P.S. By the way, Griffith's main flaw is that he shares his body with Guts and Casca's son. And that the boy would probably not let him kill them.

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: The God Hand's Main Flaw
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2017, 10:49:28 PM »
Other than Femto, the others don't have corporeal bodies. They exist solely within the Astral realm. But what you mean is that whatever rules apply to certain astral beings, like Merrow, might not apply to human-created magical entities. Which is indeed very possible.



P.S. By the way, Griffith's main flaw is that he shares his body with Guts and Casca's son. And that the boy would probably not let him kill them.

I've only thrown that out as it crossed my mind this week and while I agree totally with you, do you think it could only work in a way of showing his true form (forget the control thing I mentioned earlier. It doesn,t make sense)?

Because as far as we know, Skullknight had not join the party yet when Femto got his name. Now of course he could very much know the other's name.

Ps: I'm well aware of Griffith's weakness. I've agreed with that the first time I read it here. I was thinking about other weakness then that since it was addressed for the lot.

Anyways, I'm gonna stick to this idea about the name/revealing thing as much as much as the damn storm I wanted on their sea voyage. (Note that it never happened, but a guy can dream right?)  :guts:


Online Walter

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Re: The God Hand's Main Flaw
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2017, 12:46:52 AM »
Now of course he could very much know the other's name.

He references Void by name when he's talking to Zodd at the start of Volume 13.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: The God Hand's Main Flaw
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2017, 05:12:15 AM »
He references Void by name when he's talking to Zodd at the start of Volume 13.

For a moment I forgot that fact.

Offline Menosgade

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Re: The God Hand's Main Flaw
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2017, 11:58:12 AM »
P.S. By the way, Griffith's main flaw is that he shares his body with Guts and Casca's son. And that the boy would probably not let him kill them.

That's precisely why I believe the boy will play a key role in defeating/killing Femto.

Offline MrFlibble

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Re: The God Hand's Main Flaw
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2017, 05:19:44 PM »
I think you're correct, the IOE has mastery over the fate of the physical world, and Griffith being a God Hand is in tune to the flow of fate, he's a puppet that can see the strings, which allows him to glide seamlessley through his existence without being harmed, however like you mentioned astral beings are a threat, Femto was forced to reveal his true form to Skull Knight in order to defend himself. The IOE controls the fate of the entire human race, but even it cannot break the laws of nature, it has to draw power from the deeper layers of reality in order to alter what is physically possible, its a gamble for the God Hand that until now has completely favored them, however that streak of luck is bound to end eventually.


It does raise some interesting questions, like does the Skull Knight still have the weapon? and if he does what purpose will it serve now?

How does one kill the God Hand anyway? if they exist in a layer of reality that is considered the afterlife, then surely they cannot be killed? it's certain that the other God Hand members who still inhabit this layer of reality cannot be harmed at the moment.