Author Topic: Twin Peaks Returns  (Read 9183 times)

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Offline Walter

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #100 on: August 07, 2017, 04:27:56 PM »
As pointed out to me on Reddit:


Mitchum brothers: What kind of gift should we buy for your son, Sonny Jim?
Cooper: Gym.


Okay, that's pretty good...
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Weedle

Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #101 on: August 07, 2017, 11:23:47 PM »
Griffith, I don't understand why you're taking Twin Peaks this seriously. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm really enjoying this season, but I don't understand the urge to find depth or consistency about Twin Peaks (this isn't Berserk) because... There really isn't. I mean, literally everything about this third season is arbitrary (because it could have been anything "25 years later", there's no necessity). Whereas, you've been quite harsh with "Better Call Saul" which is a more consistent TV series (and at least takes itself seriously). I mean, even the origin of "Bob" is an happy accident: a man working on the set appears in a mirror (which is hilarious). The adventures of Dougies Jones are entertaining but, when you think about it, it could have been a spin-off or a series that has nothing to do with Twin Peaks. Anyway, there's also a lot of cynicism involved (like Lynch himself appearing in too many episodes... He's having a blast as an actor).There's also the fact that the third season has been financed by the French tax-payers.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 11:43:23 PM by Weedle »

Offline Walter

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #102 on: August 08, 2017, 02:22:30 AM »
Griffith, I don't understand why you're taking Twin Peaks this seriously. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm really enjoying this season, but I don't understand the urge to find depth or consistency about Twin Peaks (this isn't Berserk) because... There really isn't.

There is plenty of consistency between the various iterations of the series. That's almost its charm. From solid artifacts like the electricity pole to the flashing lights and set designs, to more ephemeral things  like atmosphere and  mood, I'm not sure what you find inconsistent about Twin Peaks as a series.

As for depth, if you're watching Twin Peaks for the thumbs ups, and references to coffee and cherry pie, then more power to you, but many others find depth in the world and characters.

Quote
I mean, literally everything about this third season is arbitrary (because it could have been anything "25 years later", there's no necessity).

It was always going to be about what happened with Cooper after he was trapped in the Lodge.

Quote
I mean, even the origin of "Bob" is an happy accident: a man working on the set appears in a mirror (which is hilarious).

That's his origin on the set, not in the world of Twin Peaks. So I'm not sure what point you're making. Bob's a seriously creepy, dangerous character in the show.

Quote
The adventures of Dougies Jones are entertaining but, when you think about it, it could have been a spin-off or a series that has nothing to do with Twin Peaks.

Again, what's your point...? No one's surprised Twin Peaks has comedic elements. And Dougie only works because we know who he really is. Take that away, put in someone else, that's a different scenario, and a different show.

Quote
Anyway, there's also a lot of cynicism involved (like Lynch himself appearing in too many episodes... He's having a blast as an actor).

Who here has complained about Gordon's appearances?

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There's also the fact that the third season has been financed by the French tax-payers.

..What about it? This post is baffling.
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #103 on: August 08, 2017, 02:43:14 AM »
Griffith, I don't understand why you're taking Twin Peaks this seriously.

Hmmmm, I didn't think I was taking it too seriously, beyond judging and respecting it as entertainment and a good faith effort at something, for which I give the first half of the season high marks. Also, to be fair, it set a pretty serious tone to start and despite all the weird and silly stuff since what's bugging me is it just hasn't been compelling the last couple episodes. I'm fine with anything as long as it's engaging rather than boring. Though I do expect them to have Agent Cooper eventually show up on the Agent Cooper show, even more so if it really doesn't matter and there's nothing bigger in mind (if not, I'll gladly accept a better alternative, but Dougie won't cut it for 18 hours). I gave up on the Saul show for the same reason, because there was no "Saul show" and what they offered instead stretched the limits of nuance, minimalism, and entertainment. After 2 seasons of circling around a vague point, going on 3, it just wasn't enteraining anymore; there's no drama at that point.

Contrast that with my praise of Game of Thrones, a show I'm certainly not taking seriously at this point, but which is entertaining as hell! So yeah, if the whole thing is just a pointless goof, at least goof off with the character everyone wants to see, but I hope there's some higher entertainment in mind as well. Why wouldn't I?

Also,  I agree with everything Wally added about the series, old and new.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 02:58:27 AM by Griffith »

Offline SuperVegetto

Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #104 on: August 08, 2017, 07:39:02 AM »
Griffith, I don't understand why you're taking Twin Peaks this seriously. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm really enjoying this season, but I don't understand the urge to find depth or consistency about Twin Peaks (this isn't Berserk) because... There really isn't. I mean, literally everything about this third season is arbitrary (because it could have been anything "25 years later", there's no necessity). Whereas, you've been quite harsh with "Better Call Saul" which is a more consistent TV series (and at least takes itself seriously). I mean, even the origin of "Bob" is an happy accident: a man working on the set appears in a mirror (which is hilarious). The adventures of Dougies Jones are entertaining but, when you think about it, it could have been a spin-off or a series that has nothing to do with Twin Peaks. Anyway, there's also a lot of cynicism involved (like Lynch himself appearing in too many episodes... He's having a blast as an actor).There's also the fact that the third season has been financed by the French tax-payers.

Lmao what? You need to join a Twin Peaks group in facebook or reddit and see the crazy amounts of theories and connections (I'm talking about those that are likely true) if you think there's no depth or consistency. I bet you didn't even notice the creamed corn in Sarah's scene and thought it was pointless, or the fact it was hitting at timeline repetitions in the latest episode. Even the whole Bob, Woodsman etc... stories were hinted 26 years ago, and they have deep figurative meaning

Offline VengeanceQuest982

Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #105 on: August 08, 2017, 07:45:23 AM »
...Here is another thing to mull post finale : nothing is in chronological order scene wise on The RETURN.

Offline Walter

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #106 on: August 08, 2017, 11:43:09 AM »
...Here is another thing to mull post finale : nothing is in chronological order scene wise on The RETURN.

Could you unpack that a bit..? Clearly there are many scenes that are in chronological order, or the story would make no sense.
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #107 on: August 08, 2017, 03:30:58 PM »
...Here is another thing to mull post finale : nothing is in chronological order scene wise on The RETURN.



Could you unpack that a bit..? Clearly there are many scenes that are in chronological order, or the story would make no sense.

Yeah, off the top of my head everything in fact appears to be in chronological order. The weirdest anomaly coming to mind is Evil Coop, or someone resembling him, appearing in the box when he should have been out in the world already, and them never mentioning seeing the real deal on film later.

So, VQ, are we talking certain disparate scenes in different locales are actually happening simultaneously or out of order of appearance? That's certainly possible, but there also appears to be plenty of cause and effect between these scenes/locations, and not much of a case to be made as to how or why they'd be appearing out of order unless you've got a big picture theory at hand?



Anyway, here's essentially the same report but two different takeaways:

'Twin Peaks' Likely Won't Be Revived Again at Showtime

‘Twin Peaks’: No Talks For Another Season But “Door’s Always Open To David Lynch,” Showtime Bosses Say

The gist either way is that it wasn't a big hit in traditional viewers but that it got Showtime plenty of new subscribers, including me! Overall, it seems to me like they're looking at the glass half full but it wasn't a smash or anything. I'd say "not that it matters," but it actually does if Lynch ever wanted to do more on the same scale (I'd think the best compromise in that case would be less episodes, but here's hoping everything will be perfectly satisfying after the next 5 =).
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 05:42:08 PM by Griffith »

Offline VengeanceQuest982

Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #108 on: August 08, 2017, 04:34:11 PM »
This is in response to Walter and Griffith's query about the show unfolding through nonlinear storytelling ex: in part 13 Bobby tells Ed and Norma that he just found something related to his father which would have been in Part 11. During the day.

Offline Eluvei

Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #109 on: August 08, 2017, 04:46:58 PM »
This is in response to Walter and Griffith's query about the show unfolding through nonlinear storytelling ex: in part 13 Bobby tells Ed and Norma that he just found something related to his father which would have been in Part 11. During the day.

Looked like a simple continuity problem to me. Just like the sudden mid-episode wardrobe changes that people keep obsessing about. He thought a certain scene shot for a certain episode would fit better in another episode, and so on.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #110 on: August 08, 2017, 05:55:18 PM »
This is in response to Walter and Griffith's query about the show unfolding through nonlinear storytelling ex: in part 13 Bobby tells Ed and Norma that he just found something related to his father which would have been in Part 11. During the day.

I did notice that! But I assumed it was just supposed to be earlier that day, and if we'd already seen day and night pass with Bobby in other scenes (felt like it), it was...

Looked like a simple continuity problem to me.

This, rather than evidence of some humongous in-story temporal shifts. I mean, given the other subject matter and the implied significance of the location of Twin Peaks it's certainly possible something strange could be happening, but are there other examples to support this besides one weirdly placed scene in the latest episode? Counterpoint: David Lynch is a 71 year old man putting together an 18 hour movie with an editing department 17 names deep. Mistakes could certainly happen, or like Eluvei said, he might have just consciously made the choice to move scenes around for other creative reasons.

Just like the sudden mid-episode wardrobe changes that people keep obsessing about.

/THE/CLOTHES/ARE/NOT/WHAT/THEY/SEEM/ :magni:

Offline The Beast of Darkness

Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #111 on: August 10, 2017, 07:35:08 PM »
Part 13 felt a bit like part 12, but there was some more interesting scenes this time. The arm wrestling scene was awesome (Mr.C. literally crushed Jason Voorhees' face). kyle MacLachlan really do a great job, he looks pure evil. And Audrey Horne is out of her mind, there is something really strange about her.

Offline Walter

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #112 on: August 14, 2017, 01:05:38 AM »
Non sequitur impressions of Ep 14:

Took this long to get to Jack Rabbit's Palace, eh? Oh well, it was an action packed episode after the slow and plodding nature of the past couple. A visit to the White Lodge. The giant = the fireman confirmed. Andy's empty head was like a vessel for whatever he's been programmed to do. Truman can't mention the key to Gordon? Fire Walk With Me connection re-established for sleepy viewers. The girl who appeared in the forest, Naido (according to credits), is the same who helped Cooper escape, but fell off that building. Her mother was the terrifying thing banging on the door. I wonder if the creature that appeared in the Box is her doppelganger?

Finally, was Sarah Palmer always a being from the Lodge, or was she somehow turned over the years into ... whatever that was in the bar. She opened her face like Laura opened hers.
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #113 on: August 14, 2017, 05:13:08 AM »
Non sequitur impressions of Ep 14:

Took this long to get to Jack Rabbit's Palace, eh? Oh well, it was an action packed episode after the slow and plodding nature of the past couple. A visit to the White Lodge. The giant = the fireman confirmed. Andy's empty head was like a vessel for whatever he's been programmed to do.

Good ep, and minus MacLachlan, it's strange that they couldn't spread some of this material out in the past two dumping grounds. I think Andy is more than just an empty vessel and the perfect choice for communication with the white lodge; he's purely good and sees things differently, like with the map in S2. Makes sense in a weird way that he'd basically get it all laid out for him while nobody else could remember/comprehend; he'll get it in a purely good vs evil sense. A great moment in law enforcement history!

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The girl who appeared in the forest, Naido (according to credits), is the same who helped Cooper escape, but fell off that building. Her mother was the terrifying thing banging on the door. I wonder if the creature that appeared in the Box is her doppelganger?

Didn't think we'd see her again, let alone in the world; it's all coming back to Twin Peaks. Unfortunately it looks like it's going to take about 17 episodes to even get the principals together back there.

Quote
Finally, was Sarah Palmer always a being from the Lodge, or was she somehow turned over the years into ... whatever that was in the bar. She opened her face like Laura opened hers.

My only thought was she seems even scarier than Evil Coop and has the potential to be the big bad of the whole thing. Then again, it could just be "a real mystery" or piece of the puzzle that ultimately goes nowhere. In any case, as she warned I wouldn't fuck with her though.

I was glad to see Gordon and the gang figuring things out and getting closer to the real Coop, somewhat mitigated by him not appearing at all. Also, Evil Coop behind Dougie confirmed? If Janey-E is Diane's sister, that's one too many connections/coincidences. Still not sure where her loyalties ultimately lie, she seems to be playing both sides, but she's definitely working with with Evil Cooper despite their differences that she won't discuss, if only because that's the only Cooper she's got right now (unless she truly hates the real Cooper for some reason).

What's up with Hulk hand, he going to destroy Evil Coop by beating him at arm wrestling? =)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 06:57:43 AM by Griffith »

Offline VengeanceQuest982

Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #114 on: August 14, 2017, 08:41:26 AM »
Griffith

...I'm beginning to think that Sarah is the mask for "The Experiment" the mother figure that bore BOB into the physical plane. And that Naido is the current form of the being that The Fireman created.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #115 on: August 14, 2017, 02:02:15 PM »
Griffith

...I'm beginning to think that Sarah is the mask for "The Experiment" the mother figure that bore BOB into the physical plane. And that Naido is the current form of the being that The Fireman created.

Yeah, the water cooler talk today was whether she was the girl that ate the Bob bug.

Offline Walter

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #116 on: August 14, 2017, 02:07:07 PM »
Griffith

...I'm beginning to think that Sarah is the mask for "The Experiment" the mother figure that bore BOB into the physical plane. And that Naido is the current form of the being that The Fireman created.
Yeah, the water cooler talk today was whether she was the girl that ate the Bob bug.

In any case, there seems to be way too much still unexplained for it to all be resolved naturally in a four-episode span. And while I wouldn't normally expect Lynch to explain things, he seems to have made it his business to open so many new threads in this series, I do expect some of them to be resolved.
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #117 on: August 14, 2017, 02:24:24 PM »
In any case, there seems to be way too much still unexplained for it to all be resolved naturally in a four-episode span. And while I wouldn't normally expect Lynch to explain things, he seems to have made it his business to open so many new threads in this series, I do expect some of them to be resolved.

Yeah, the series appears to be doing no winding down. It actually spent all of last night introducing or explaining new elements and felt like it's just getting started, so there's no way it's all coming together in the next four. Lynch is either planning on more someday or planning on leaving it that way, and us with more questions than when we started. :ganishka:

Offline SuperVegetto

Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #118 on: August 21, 2017, 12:09:22 PM »
Has to be my favorite episode of the season. So emotional and didn't have the sorta cheap visual look of the previous episode, great atmosphere and the DougieCoop scene made me scream and pause it.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #119 on: August 21, 2017, 04:59:06 PM »
Yeah, I can't say this was a favorite, seems more meandering than ever honestly (by virtue of being the latest interminable progression), though it did have some cool parts even if the whole didn't do much for me:

The opening vignette was kind of nice and strangely out of place in its own way because of it (frankly, if they hadn't gotten together after all these years, would Norma even want to?). The Mr. C portion going to see Jeffries at the Service Station from Hell was definitely the highlight, though I was sad to learn that was not actually the pre-recorded voice of the late Mr. Bowie. The other big moment is of course Dougie, who has become underutilized in the last few episodes. I could literally watch Kyle McLaughlin eat cake and be fascinated, but it's not that they've been keeping Cooper in this state that's bothersome, but that he hasn't been around much at all recently. Hopefully that's going to change now that "Gordon" has finally reached him and he's going to hopefully pull whatever part of him was missing through that socket. =) And finally, of course, RIP Log Lady, a fitting tribute, though I'm starting to expect a bit more with so few episodes left, and though they're quickly pruning the unessential cast, a lot of the new additions didn't amount to much anyway.

Offline Walter

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #120 on: August 21, 2017, 07:10:15 PM »
https://twitter.com/superdeluxe/status/899720281714905088  :ganishka:

Regarding last night's ep:

I kept waiting for the significance of Steven's character to be revealed, and now he's dead, so I'm really wondering why we were subjected to his gross face at all.

As Dougie stared at the socket, I stood up. He's going to do it! He's going to return to the Lodge and retrieve that golden ball to make him "whole" again. Nnnnope! Oh, Dougie! Still, that zap might have had some effect, given the significance of electricity in this show .

Good for Ed. Clear skies for him and Norma. Not sure why that took 25 years...

Jeffries as a disembodied gas emitting from a supernatural cauldron caught somewhere between dimensions? Sure, why not? But as cool as that whole sequence was, and as long-awaited as Jeffries' reveal was, it didn't really seem to add much to the mix. That line from Jeffries: "So you're Cooper?" And then Mr. C's stare, ignoring the question. Positively Void-like  :void:

As soon as I saw the woman who opened the door for Mr. C, I thought it might be Judy. Not that it makes any sense  :guts:

Any clue who the assassin was in Las Vegas? That seemed to have come from out of nowhere. If it's not Jeffries, then it's probably the same person who's been working against Mr. C since the start.



And finally, of course, RIP Log Lady, a fitting tribute, though I'm starting to expect a bit more with so few episodes left, and though they're quickly pruning the unessential cast, a lot of the new additions didn't amount to much anyway.

I could be reading too much into it, but her death happening now instead of later in the show I think signals that we're in for some shit in the coming episodes. And to reiterate my feeling from last ep, there's a LOT to cover in the last 3 eps...

Finally, regarding the Log Lady's final words: Watch out for the one under the moon. Here are some relevant screengrabs, via reddit:

http://imgur.com/a/6XJCG
http://imgur.com/a/nQDZP
http://imgur.com/a/ii0RB
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 07:41:16 PM by Walter »
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #121 on: August 21, 2017, 11:28:01 PM »
https://twitter.com/superdeluxe/status/899720281714905088  :ganishka:

 :ganishka:

Regarding last night's ep:

I kept waiting for the significance of Steven's character to be revealed, and now he's dead, so I'm really wondering why we were subjected to his gross face at all.

To annoy us, and he's effective to the point I don't even believe he's really gone, even though it seems the best way to correct the mistake of including him. Such punch-able.


As Dougie stared at the socket, I stood up. He's going to do it! He's going to return to the Lodge and retrieve that golden ball to make him "whole" again. Nnnnope! Oh, Dougie! Still, that zap might have had some effect, given the significance of electricity in this show.

Good thought, we may see that yet, maybe intercut with Coop's body living or dying in the regular world. Maybe he'll come out of a coma after all. =)

Jeffries as a disembodied gas emitting from a supernatural cauldron caught somewhere between dimensions? Sure, why not? But as cool as that whole sequence was, and as long-awaited as Jeffries' reveal was, it didn't really seem to add much to the mix. That line from Jeffries: "So you're Cooper?" And then Mr. C's stare, ignoring the question. Positively Void-like  :void:

It was all pretty awesome, enough to make me consider that Mr. C IS the real Cooper, :ganishka: and by that token, maybe there can't be any real Cooper without Mr. C being reincorporated into him/The Lodge. Maybe that's what he really needs to be "whole" again, his edge.

Any clue who the assassin was in Las Vegas? That seemed to have come from out of nowhere. If it's not Jeffries, then it's probably the same person who's been working against Mr. C since the start.

Unless you mean someone I'm forgetting, those were Mr. C's assassins killing his other lackeys for failing to kill Dougie. More extremely necessary characters! The way useless character are offing others is like some kind of character money laundering. Maybe the little man was right when he suggested Lynch didn't need to get a bunch of face supporting actors to play characters whose contributions amount to closed loops.

I could be reading too much into it, but her death happening now instead of later in the show I think signals that we're in for some shit in the coming episodes. And to reiterate my feeling from last ep, there's a LOT to cover in the last 3 eps...

I'd agree with you, as in that's genuinely my impulse as well, except it's the same one I and many have had the other meandering episodes and there's seemingly little cause and effect; after all, there's no rule stating that for every inaction there's an equal and opposite action. Maybe stuff will happen, maybe it's still just going to be setup for the finale, and maybe the finale isn't going to deliver anything approaching expectations either (YMMV).  Meanwhile, we're hoping that the less that happens the more there is to come, until we're finally just watching a guy sweep the floor with bated breath, waiting for the imminent HUGE reveal that's going to tell us what it all means! Or not, and it's a David Lynch psyche out; Laura Palmer, Cooper, Bob, Owls, Lodges, and everything new we're seeing "come together" now, what it all amounts to is anticipation, and there's no way to reveal anticipation. It's why we we're not seeing Coop again until these final episodes, if at all. BTW, I'm not necessarily being negative here or saying it's bad or won't work, I'm sure there's going to be payoffs, lore and otherwise, and less can be more. I'm just wondering exactly how much less to expect.

Finally, regarding the Log Lady's final words: Watch out for the one under the moon. Here are some relevant screengrabs, via reddit:

http://imgur.com/a/6XJCG
http://imgur.com/a/nQDZP
http://imgur.com/a/ii0RB


https://thegameofnerds.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/311-hawk-symbol.jpeg?w=730
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 02:23:19 AM by Griffith »

Offline Nothingwillbewong

Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #122 on: August 22, 2017, 12:57:55 AM »
What seems very likely to me is that the one mr c is looking for, that is represented by a ball with two crooked horns is the being that birthed him in part 8, just cause it seems she has said horns, why or what does she mean to a being of what I thought of being pure evil I have no clue, does even evil itself long for their parents?
  I might be missing loads of stuff here or speculating incorrectly, I hope you guys can enlighten me a bit here

Offline Eluvei

Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #123 on: August 22, 2017, 03:36:42 AM »
More extremely necessary characters! The way useless character are offing others is like some kind of character money laundering.

Man, this must be feeling like a huge waste of time if you're expecting every little character from vignettes to be somehow significant to the... main plot? Well, the FBI storyline. Are you gonna be disappointed if the guy who was selling his blood doesn't show up to help in the final battle against The Experiment? :iva:

Offline Griffith

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #124 on: August 22, 2017, 05:36:57 AM »
Man, this must be feeling like a huge waste of time if you're expecting every little character from vignettes to be somehow significant to the... main plot? Well, the FBI storyline. Are you gonna be disappointed if the guy who was selling his blood doesn't show up to help in the final battle against The Experiment? :iva:

Well, I am expecting the "main plot" or the "FBI storyline" themselves to be more significant to the show than those characters and vignettes that seemingly go nowhere in and of themselves, yes, or more precisely for those seemingly insignificant things to ultimately matter to the overall purpose of the show (even if it's not yet clear to me; I'm sure Patrick Fischler's character will tie it all together in the end), but perhaps I'm wrong to think that way. On the other hand, if they just waste an inordinate amount of screen time we don't spend developing and exploring the "main FBI plotline" and it ends up being more smoke than fire (walk), may exultation levels may indeed fall below 100%. Maybe they'll even have time leftover at the end for the little character of Agent Cooper to make a cameo in the form of a sentient cup of coffee voiced by Craig MacLachlan, "Damn fine." :iva:

Anyway, despite my criticisms of recent episodes I've still quite enjoyed the season, particularly the first 11 episodes, but after that it has seemingly stalled and been hit or miss, lacking the focus and purpose of the first half of the season and losing its inertia. I hope that's somehow by design or all part of the plan, or maybe there is no plan and that can be fine too, but it's not unfair to wonder.






Update: Using the Twin Peaks Survival Guide Grail posted as a template, I decided to rate the episodes of The Return:



Feel free to disagree, I'm largely going off memory and double checking some episode summaries to job it, there's plenty of episodes that could be downgraded (possibly 4-6) or upgraded (particularly 13 and 15), which would indicate a more balanced season... but nah, I think I'm pretty much right. =)
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 06:26:08 AM by Griffith »