Author Topic: Twin Peaks Returns  (Read 9165 times)

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Offline Griffith

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #175 on: September 08, 2017, 07:21:58 AM »
No doubt. I always thought the Giant sounded... disappointed? And yeah it's kinda hilarious for the guy to interrupt a concert to tell him he sucks as a detective. :ganishka:

His tone borders on betrayed, but he could have been more straightforward sooner, still...



"What does it all mean?! :???:"

And I have no idea why this popped up in the image search but here you go:



Effects test for season 4 of Twin Peaks: The Explanation starring Annie & Audrey

Really enjoyed reading this take, even if some things here and there don't really fit completely: http://www.waggish.org/2017/twin-peaks-finale/

Damn fine read, and like you said you don't have to agree with all the details or conclusions but at least it lays out a logical framework of the facts to work with, and you can't reject it for being too zany because the logic of the lodges is. Anyway, that's the best postmortem I've read, not that the competition is great ("it's about the show and ending and stuff!"); these are about the only other two I liked, but they focused more on what Lynch was saying rather than what was technically happening, echoing your conversation with Nightcrawler that I didn't feel quite comfortable wading into (the second article in particular touches on a lot of the same themes you debated with Nighty and obviously comes away with a more positive interpretation):

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/9/3/16250822/twin-peaks-finale-recap-part-17-18-the-return

http://www.avclub.com/twin-peaks-gave-us-a-moving-meditation-on-death-1800661325


Oh, and I looked up the first episode of Dumbland. :ganishka:

I forgot to mention: "See you at the curtain call" was one of the coolest goodbye lines ever. Though somewhat downgraded by them being reunited next to an actual curtain.

Speaking of bad articles, there's paid writers out there poetically lamenting that "there'll never be that curtain call" without mentioning the fact Coop and Diane literally reunite next to a giant red stage curtain! Anyway, there's theories about the chronology of the episode being all mixed up (what else is new?) and that Coop and Diane are somehow reuniting in episode 17 AFTER the events of 18, explaining why they're so happy (they were both trapped and haven't spoken in decades?), why they kiss so passionately and she's not at all put off by the face of her rapist (uh, the real Coop's kiss is right? Ok, that one is weird), and why Coop's face superimposes over the screen dreamsplaining, but it all doesn't quite follow, particularly their path back there or lack thereof.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 01:28:56 PM by Griffith »

Offline Eluvei

Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #176 on: September 09, 2017, 07:01:01 PM »
Anyway, that's the best postmortem I've read, not that the competition is great ("it's about the show and ending and stuff!");

Yeah, very refreshing to read an interpretation that actually tries to solve the mystery, and I don't know how he managed to put that together so cohesively this quickly.

Quote
these are about the only other two I liked, but they focused more on what Lynch was saying rather than what was technically happening, echoing your conversation with Nightcrawler that I didn't feel quite comfortable wading into (the second article in particular touches on a lot of the same themes you debated with Nighty and obviously comes away with a more positive interpretation):

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/9/3/16250822/twin-peaks-finale-recap-part-17-18-the-return

http://www.avclub.com/twin-peaks-gave-us-a-moving-meditation-on-death-1800661325

Thanks, pretty good articles, the AV Club one got me kinda :judo:.

I defended the "happy" scenes throughout the show as sincere, but as I said earlier, I had trouble believing this also applied to the goofy battle against BOB. It was too insane for me to take as anything other than at least some kind of dream, and Cooper's superimposed face showing up appeared to confirm it. But when I read the guy in the AV Club article saying "meta" isn't in Lynch's vocabulary, it reminded me of a thing from an old article I read earlier this year:

Lynch is often embraced as an ironist. He can appear to be laughing at the all-American innocents and celebrating the tawdry and amoral. But I'm beginning to realise that isn't the case. Lynch despises irony and cruelty, and loves those wide-eyed idealists who believe in love and purity. At a screening of the new movie at the National Film Theatre, a beautiful scene is played from Blue Velvet in which Laura Dern's Sandy describes her vision of love. "I had a dream. In the dream there was our world and the world was dark because there weren't any robins, and the robins represented love. And for the longest time there was just this darkness and all of a sudden thousands of robins were set free and they flew down and brought this blinding light of love. And it seemed that love was the only thing that would make any difference." The critic Mark Kermode, interviewing Lynch on stage, says what he loves about this scene is that it is so sincerely felt, despite the fact that so many in the audience laugh and regard it as ironic goofball.

Lynch nods, and brilliantly deconstructs the kind of audience who admire him for what he considers to be the wrong reasons. "A shared experience in the theatre is very different from seeing a film on your own, and in a theatre we all have this thing where we want to be very cool, and when you see something like this, kind of really embarrassing, the tendency is to laugh, because you are saying out loud that you realise this is embarrassing and not cool and you're hip to the scene, so this kind of thing happens. And then we also know, when we are alone with this person we're falling in love with, we do say goofy things, but we don't have a problem with it; it's so beautiful. And the other person is forgiving for these beautiful, loving, goofy things. There's a truth to the scene."

Offline VengeanceQuest982

Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #177 on: September 09, 2017, 09:00:13 PM »
Griffith , Walter :

...If you both recall Cooper warned Laura while in the Red Room in FWWM not to take the Owl/Infinity Ring as I believe he knew it's what binds her to an endless loop a loop he becomes the last piece of by trying to save her . So if we're talking about an endless cycle that explains why Cooper is so old in The Red Room in s1ep3 as he would be in his 6th cycle.

Offline Walter

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #178 on: September 11, 2017, 03:42:30 PM »
Two albums from the show are out today:

Score: https://rhino.lnk.to/TPSMP
Songs (mostly the Roadhouse performances): http://a.co/hmSSq6r
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Griffith

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #179 on: September 11, 2017, 07:49:00 PM »
Yeah, very refreshing to read an interpretation that actually tries to solve the mystery, and I don't know how he managed to put that together so cohesively this quickly.

Thanks, pretty good articles, the AV Club one got me kinda :judo:.

I defended the "happy" scenes throughout the show as sincere, but as I said earlier, I had trouble believing this also applied to the goofy battle against BOB. It was too insane for me to take as anything other than at least some kind of dream, and Cooper's superimposed face showing up appeared to confirm it. But when I read the guy in the AV Club article saying "meta" isn't in Lynch's vocabulary, it reminded me of a thing from an old article I read earlier this year:

Quote from: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2007/feb/24/davidlynch

Yeah, based on the unorthidox yet authentic feelings, or at least unorthidox shades or gradients of authentic feeling, Lynch taps into I can totally buy that everything he's presenting, as far as everyone on screen is feeling, good and bad, is presented in good faith. Basically, he's laughing/crying with the characters and with us, not at them/us. He's made several statements to that effect including the opening of The Return where everyone assumed he was outright mocking appointment/prestige TV with The Experiment, which is still a fantastic interpretation BTW, but he claims it was another happy accident and not a statement he was going out of his way to make.

Griffith , Walter :

...If you both recall Cooper warned Laura while in the Red Room in FWWM not to take the Owl/Infinity Ring as I believe he knew it's what binds her to an endless loop a loop he becomes the last piece of by trying to save her . So if we're talking about an endless cycle that explains why Cooper is so old in The Red Room in s1ep3 as he would be in his 6th cycle.

I don't get that, maybe because I'm stuck in my pre-S3 interpretations, not that I held them long, or not thinking about it enough, but my understanding was the ring prevented her from being possessed by BOB so he killed her (and seems to bind, at least most, people to the Lodge upon death). Is that the cycle you're talking about, because if we're talking the "MŲbius-strip" interpretation, on it's face wasn't that actually more a consequence caused by Cooper's intervention? Feel free to explain why I'm just not getting it, because any more explanation is welcome.

Two albums from the show are out today:

Score: https://rhino.lnk.to/TPSMP
Songs (mostly the Roadhouse performances): http://a.co/hmSSq6r

I've been listening to a lot of the Season 1, 2, and FWWM (THE BLACK DOG RUNS AT NIGHT) soundtracks lately, particularly for inspiration while working on The Faces of Cooper photoshop, first straight through a few times and then on shuffle. I was surprised and disappointed these weren't already available but now look forward to adding them to the playlist!

Update: Oh shit, it's got ZZ Top on it! :isidro:



By my calculations he's cranking the volume past 11 to at least 16, if not 17! :ganishka:
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 06:13:15 AM by Griffith »

Offline VengeanceQuest982

Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #180 on: September 12, 2017, 12:04:04 PM »
Griffith

"Snake Eyes" by Trouble is The Evolution of Angelo Badalamenti's "The Pink Room" that the series deserves. Also even though it wasn't used in the series Roy Orbison's "In Dreams" will forever be about Dale Cooper and Laura Palmer.

Offline NightCrawler

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #181 on: September 12, 2017, 02:24:53 PM »
Score: https://rhino.lnk.to/TPSMP

They are releasing a soundtrack?  :ganishka:
90% of the music appeared in other formats years ago or in other Lynch's projects.
As a composer i found it sad that they didn't hire someone to score the show, and it was distracting to recognize most of the rehashed music from other movies/albums.

Here's 10h of TP music previously released - https://youtu.be/DB6gkUmzZXA
A DL album that has a bunch of atmospheric stuff featured in S3 - https://youtu.be/uUdP-xQyFmc
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 09:35:20 PM by NightCrawler »
Berserk isn't really "dark fantasy" either. It's plain fantasy
Miura has been very protective of Berserk

Offline VengeanceQuest982

Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #182 on: September 12, 2017, 03:15:47 PM »
NightCrawler

...I can see the argument as Angelo Badalamenti has a limited amount of new musical pieces compared to Season(s) 1 & 2 as well as Fire Walk With Me scores. With the Return Lynch used artists and bands to perform songs that were tethered to individual characters , and the overall theme of the season.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #183 on: September 13, 2017, 06:04:06 AM »
They are releasing a soundtrack?  :ganishka:
90% of the music appeared in other formats years ago or in other Lynch's projects.
As a composer i found it sad that they didn't hire someone to score the show, and it was distracting to recognize most of the rehashed music from other movies/albums.

Well, that's sad to hear, fortunately my familiarity with his work overall is limited enough that any recycled music, other than from Twin Peaks, didn't affect me, but I also assumed the minimalist score was otherwise intentional (or maybe he was just that into his own sound design). I honestly think I prefer the approach here than the original series' ubiquitous use of Laura Palmer's theme, Audrey's Dance and Freshly Squeezed (or variations such as Dance of the Dream Man) whether they were particularly warranted or elevating to a scene or not. Although that did work for the tone of the original Twin Peaks, I don't know that more Badalamenti or even a more traditional score would have worked better. You can disagree with the approach, choices or ultimately the results, but I don't think one can say music wasn't considered central to The Return either. It was a pretty prominent and notable fixture, even when it wasn't (much more than hums or tones, that is).

Update: New, original video uploaded.

https://youtu.be/oiGmUtZEblk

I uploaded a new explanation of how to interpret the chronology and events of those last couple of episodes...
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 07:21:43 PM by Griffith »

Offline NightCrawler

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #184 on: September 13, 2017, 02:02:48 PM »
Update: New, original video uploaded.

https://youtu.be/oiGmUtZEblk

I uploaded a new explanation of how to interpret the chronology and events of those last couple of episodes...

 :ubik:
Berserk isn't really "dark fantasy" either. It's plain fantasy
Miura has been very protective of Berserk

Offline Walter

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #185 on: September 14, 2017, 11:05:08 AM »
Quote
Whether there will be a 4th season of Twin Peaks is too early to say, he told the crowd, adding that if the series would continue, fans would have to be extremely patient. Again. ďIt took me four and a half years to write and film this season.Ē

http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/news/twin-peaks-season-4-years/
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline SuperVegetto

Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #186 on: September 14, 2017, 08:05:45 PM »
He should just make a 2 hour long movie without pointless scenes and it would be both high quality and produced relatively fast.

Offline Hitoshura

Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #187 on: September 14, 2017, 10:29:02 PM »
The Third Season will be out on DVD and Blu-ray on December 5, 2017



source: https://twitter.com/DAVID_LYNCH/status/908382492280840192
"Death's vastness holds no peace. I come at the end of the long road. Neither human, nor devil... all bends to my will" - Hitoshura

Offline Griffith

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #188 on: September 15, 2017, 06:56:32 AM »
:ubik:

Ahhhh, the sweet validation I so desperately crave. A point of Karma to you, sir!

http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/news/twin-peaks-season-4-years/

Hmmm, something to focus his creative energy into in his twilight years. Probably a good thing if he can come up with an idea worthwhile enough to step on the meaning of this one, at least the ending, a bit.

He should just make a 2 hour long movie without pointless scenes and it would be both high quality and produced relatively fast.

Hey now! And have you seen Fire Walk With Me? Is that really what he did? Actually, I like The Missing Pieces too so I can't say anything. =)

The Third Season will be out on DVD and Blu-ray on December 5, 2017

https://i.imgur.com/hPPAw7e.jpg

...

Because these wonderful design ideas were already taken:

     


They should have got in touch with @crisvector because, again, he has all the promotional artwork they'll ever need:

http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/inspiration/twin-peaks-posters-18-parts-crisvector/

I mean, Jesus Christ:


Offline NightCrawler

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #189 on: September 15, 2017, 03:11:25 PM »
He should just make a 2 hour long movie without pointless scenes and it would be both high quality and produced relatively fast.

Mulholland Drive was supposed to be a show. He only filmed the pilot and after tv execs rejected it, he filmed another half and made it into a feature, in what is considered by critics as the best movie of the century - https://goo.gl/TJo1Wp - I don't know if i agree, but it's certainly his best movie. Sometimes creativity needs obstructions.
Berserk isn't really "dark fantasy" either. It's plain fantasy
Miura has been very protective of Berserk

Offline Griffith

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #190 on: September 15, 2017, 04:28:11 PM »
He should just make a 2 hour long movie without pointless scenes and it would be both high quality and produced relatively fast.
Mulholland Drive was supposed to be a show. He only filmed the pilot and after tv execs rejected it, he filmed another half and made it into a feature, in what is considered by critics as the best movie of the century - https://goo.gl/TJo1Wp - I don't know if i agree, but it's certainly his best movie.

While I certainly had my complaints, and aren't as bullish on it all as Eluvei, I don't know that the more extraneous stuff was "pointless" or worthless, like filler. Maybe useless to the overarching plot, but not to the mood, tone, themes and viewing experience as a whole (sometimes the point was them and the feeling they elicited existing in and of themselves, and sometimes I learned more about certain characters and sympathized with them, like Shelly and Bobby, through others, like their daughter and her troubles. Anyway, I would have wanted some of the content about two thirds of the way through to be more balanced with the plot (though I'm not even sure that wasn't intentionally referencing some ghosts of Twin Peaks past), but I don't know that I would have excised anything entirely. My usually strong belief in the principles of storytelling economy need not apply here.

Sometimes creativity needs obstructions.


Offline Eluvei

Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #191 on: September 15, 2017, 08:11:00 PM »
While I certainly had my complaints, and aren't as bullish on it all as Eluvei, I don't know that the more extraneous stuff was "pointless" or worthless, like filler. Maybe useless to the overarching plot, but not to the mood, tone, themes and viewing experience as a whole (sometimes the point was them and the feeling they elicited existing in and of themselves, and sometimes I learned more about certain characters and sympathized with them, like Shelly and Bobby, through others, like their daughter and her troubles. Anyway, I would have wanted some of the content about two thirds of the way through to be more balanced with the plot (though I'm not even sure that wasn't intentionally referencing some ghosts of Twin Peaks past), but I don't know that I would have excised anything entirely. My usually strong belief in the principles of storytelling economy need not apply here.

Well said. I have no doubt that on rewatches the episodes that contained more "useless" things are gonna go down easier for those that painted them red on their personal viewing guides. Without the anxiety of wanting to know where this is all going, people will finally be able to fully embrace Jacoby painting shovels, Steven mumbling in the woods, etc.

edit:
:sad:
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 10:29:22 PM by Eluvei »

Offline Griffith

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #192 on: September 16, 2017, 03:20:09 AM »
Without the anxiety of wanting to know where this is all going, people will finally be able to fully embrace Jacoby painting shovels, Steven mumbling in the woods, etc.

Well, I don't know if I'll embrace all those scenes (I never minded Jacoby though =), but true enough that the urge to see what happens next and for satisfaction can taint the moment and cause any digression, however interesting, to feel like a delay.

edit:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJzOMDvUIAA4YfX.jpg:small :sad:

Ah man, conversations about the series with my dad naturally gravitated toward his presence; old as hell, but still the same Harry Dean Stanton!

This was fast:
https://www.theringer.com/movies/2017/9/15/16318116/harry-dean-stanton-was-more-than-a-great-character-actor
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 03:31:49 AM by Griffith »

Offline SuperVegetto

Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #193 on: September 16, 2017, 02:12:50 PM »


Hey now! And have you seen Fire Walk With Me? Is that really what he did? Actually, I like The Missing Pieces too so I can't say anything. =)



I usually  find it hard to tell if you're being sarcastic or not but whatever that case may be, Fire Walk With Me was a splendid movie. If we were to get something like that again...
Also it was made during Lynch's "second period", which I prefer most. The mood, music, sounds etc... were best then. Twin Peaks season 3 and Inland Empire belong his third period which is also the Avant-garde one.

Offline Eluvei

Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #194 on: September 16, 2017, 08:58:22 PM »
"Here is a place for glasses, remote controls, and pens. And hereís a circle with Kleenex coming out. Hereís a larger circle for a wine bottle. This is a door on special hinges that holds cigarettes and lighter. And over on this side is a large door, so this part right here is a place for Parmesan crackers and trail mix and wine glasses and different things. Iím going to have electricity wired into the table ó Iím going to have a lamp ó so I have a switch right here. And then down here is a drawer that has a place for a yellow pad. If I have an idea, I can take out the yellow pad and write it down with the pens. And itís on these red wheels. So itís a side table that holds all the things that I use."



http://ew.com/tv/2017/09/15/david-lynch-twin-peaks-finale/


Offline Walter

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #195 on: September 22, 2017, 06:18:17 PM »
Kyle MacLachlan talks about Dougie's sex scene, and the floppy arms:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irRN40EYLag
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Griffith

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #196 on: September 24, 2017, 05:44:55 AM »
https://ewedit.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/table.png?w=3825

This came out better than his previous "experiments:"

https://youtu.be/SyctJCC7s3k

 :ganishka: :magni:

And since it was a hot topic of conversation among us here's an interview with Lynch on the music & sound design of The Return including Bowie's voice and what his tea kettle form was supposed to be.

Update: God damn link didn't paste.

https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/david-lynch-interview-on-bowie-and-music-that-inspired-the-new-twin-peaks/

Offline NightCrawler

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #197 on: October 13, 2017, 10:15:30 PM »
Berserk isn't really "dark fantasy" either. It's plain fantasy
Miura has been very protective of Berserk

Offline SuperVegetto

Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #198 on: October 16, 2017, 09:14:37 PM »
https://youtu.be/-iHt1UQK4e4

I got a massive deja vu from this comment.


Is it future or is it past?

Offline Walter

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Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« Reply #199 on: October 17, 2017, 04:02:29 PM »
https://youtu.be/-iHt1UQK4e4

Wow!  My face while watching. :ganishka: Alex should ditch his dayjob and become the key Twin Peaks theorycrafter.
:femto: :slan: :ubik: