Author Topic: Episode 351  (Read 27030 times)

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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 351
« Reply #125 on: November 03, 2017, 02:35:09 PM »
Wow, after 10 years of not reading a new berserk, I have now caught back up.

Long time no see, old boy.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 351
« Reply #126 on: November 03, 2017, 04:12:04 PM »
Wow, after 10 years of not reading a new berserk, I have now caught back up.  Although I was hopeful they would be further by now, I am still quite happy they have gotten further in the story than I had expected.  I was still expecting them to be on Roderick's Boat making a few more stops along the way. 

Interesting, a 10-year hiatus?! SO LAZY! You've got some catching up to do :void:

Highlights over that span include:

• The community's reaction to the big Femto/SK scene, which was pretty crazy to see at the time.

• That time in 2009 when Miura answered our interview questions.

• Puella's translation of the Berserk Illustrations File interview

• The Berserk movie trilogy and all the discussion around it

• The god-awful 2016 animation

• And of course all of our podcasts
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Headless Death

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Re: Episode 351
« Reply #127 on: November 03, 2017, 05:49:47 PM »
Long time no see, old boy.
Thanks, good to see a lot of the old faces haven't slacked as much as I have.
Interesting, a 10-year hiatus?! SO LAZY! You've got some catching up to do :void:
I definitely do, Although I caught up with the current chapter, I now need to reread yet to refresh the story in my head, since its had a long time to fade since my last reread.  I told my Wife how long its been since I read it, and she commented, "So this series that you've talked about the last 6 years I've known you, and you haven't even kept up to date since before I knew you."

• The community's reaction to the big Femto/SK scene, which was pretty crazy to see at the time.
That was exciting.  One part of that I was unsure of was if SK inadvertently aided in Femto setting off the "Bomb" to merge worlds, or if SK was just unsuccessful in stopping it.

• That time in 2009 when Miura answered our interview questions.
Awesome, It's nice to hear that as of 2009, He was thinking of Berserk as 60-70% complete.  To me that means that we may be approaching the final arc within the next 10 years.

• Puella's translation of the Berserk Illustrations File interview
I remember this one. 

• The Berserk movie trilogy and all the discussion around it
After watching this on Netflix, got me to think it was about time to start catching up.

• The god-awful 2016 animation
While the animation was awful for mouth movement, and making everything shiny. I appreciate it as a summary of some of the plot points, even if many things were glossed over, or outright ignored. I'm still likely to pick up the set when it's released in January, Despite the Loud clangs of the Dragonslayer.  And even wouldn't mind seeing more, as I still enjoy seeing adaptations that I can absorb lazily at times.

• And of course all of our podcasts
I'll need to check those out.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 351
« Reply #128 on: November 03, 2017, 06:18:10 PM »
Thanks, good to see a lot of the old faces haven't slacked as much as I have.I definitely do, Although I caught up with the current chapter, I now need to reread yet to refresh the story in my head, since its had a long time to fade since my last reread.  I told my Wife how long its been since I read it, and she commented, "So this series that you've talked about the last 6 years I've known you, and you haven't even kept up to date since before I knew you."

"That's just how much you mean to me, honey"  :casca:

That was exciting.  One part of that I was unsure of was if SK inadvertently aided in Femto setting off the "Bomb" to merge worlds, or if SK was just unsuccessful in stopping it.

He was just there to slice Femto. Then his attack was manipulated and used to rupture Ganishka. He seemed rather surprised.

Awesome, It's nice to hear that as of 2009, He was thinking of Berserk as 60-70% complete.  To me that means that we may be approaching the final arc within the next 10 years.
I remember this one. 

That's true, but that's what I've said twice within the past 20 years, so we'll see :badbone:
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline DirtiestM

Re: Episode 351
« Reply #129 on: November 21, 2017, 10:43:06 PM »
Hello skullknight forum! I've been reading Berserk and lurking on this forum since 2014 and love the podcast so I thought it was about time to post!

While I was rereading Volume 27, Flora said something that I thought was possibly relevant to where the story of Berserk left off.  As Flora presents herself as a wall of flame to protect Guts and company she says to Schierke, "My existential form will merely change. We can meet again in your dreams." At the beginning of the corridor of dreams sequence Schierke, Farnese and Casca fall asleep, and the reader gets to see inside their dreams. As Schierke and Farnese progress through Casca's dreams and collect fragments of memories they end up fighting monsters manifested by Casca's mind. In episode 351 Schierke runs out of fetishes to use so Farnese manifests Mozgus's head to fend off the approaching monsters, an object that was shown in Farnese's own dream. With the dreamscape becoming even more hostile as Schierke and Farnese approach the last memory that will help put back together Casca's mind, Schierke and Farnese may be in need of additional assistance.

I think that Flora might make some kind of appearance to help Schierke and Farnese, either as a wall of flame like she appeared as to defend against Grunbeld or maybe just as emotional or moral support for Schierke so that she can persevere. That being said, what Flora said in volume 27 maybe shouldn't be taken literally. Instead, the Sovereign of the Flower Storm might just intervene or Schierke and Farnese will persevere on their own and think of some clever way fight against the resistance of Casca's own mind. Or even something else.

Either way I am sooooooo excited for the upcoming episode!

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 351
« Reply #130 on: November 22, 2017, 02:02:01 AM »
Hey Dirtiest, welcome! I Hope you don't mind me merging your post into this existing thread.

Hello skullknight forum! I've been reading Berserk and lurking on this forum since 2014 and love the podcast so I thought it was about time to post!

Aw, thanks for joining us in these quiet times between releases :farnese:

Quote
While I was rereading Volume 27, Flora said something that I thought was possibly relevant to where the story of Berserk left off.  As Flora presents herself as a wall of flame to protect Guts and company she says to Schierke, "My existential form will merely change. We can meet again in your dreams."

Not to preclude what you're about to say, but I think most would take Flora at her word in this regard -- that she would be able to visit Schierke in her dreams (not Casca's). Even though that hasn't happened yet, I don't doubt that it will at some point.

Quote
I think that Flora might make some kind of appearance to help Schierke and Farnese, either as a wall of flame like she appeared as to defend against Grunbeld or maybe just as emotional or moral support for Schierke so that she can persevere.

I think it would make sense within the context of the other summons, a manifestation of those beings could be present in the dream sequence, ferried along into Casca's dream world by these other two dreamers. But I don't think it would make sense for Flora -- the real Flora -- to make an appearance here and now. After all, the Sovereign's involvement with the corridor has been relegated to flower petals guiding the way. That's likely by design, so as to not add a foreign entity to this deeply personal journey. I just don't see Flora stepping on the Sovereign's toes here.

Quote
Instead, the Sovereign of the Flower Storm might just intervene

Possible, but I feel like it'd be a little like cheating if they couldn't resolve this circumstance themselves, and rely on a higher power to solve the problem. 

Quote
or Schierke and Farnese will persevere on their own and think of some clever way fight against the resistance of Casca's own mind.

Always bet on Schierke   :guts:
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Headless Death

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Re: Episode 351
« Reply #131 on: November 22, 2017, 03:27:43 PM »
I like the thought of a dream Casca coming to their Aid.  Where Farnese and Schierke get a chance to see the strength and determination of a true Casca.  I figure this fits with the idea that a person cannot be healed without their desire to return.  Casca may return in order to protect that feeling of familiarity and support she gets from Farnese and Schierke as she regains the final fragment.  Since we know that the battle hardened Casca is in there somewhere as demonstrated when she killed her would be rapists.  And the rules of the dream world are determined by the dreamer as explained by the Sovereign.

Offline darnage

Re: Episode 351
« Reply #132 on: December 13, 2017, 04:23:24 PM »
Alright, so I know it has been a long time, and I'm sorry about it, but there's just one thing I would like to point out, and mind that I'm not trying to defend my hypothesis, as it was already said, it's not supported by any actual proof, just some conjecture, but if I can agree that my hypothesis was more of a wild guess than anything else, the arguments you used against me still doesn't make sense to me, so if it's me that make an error of interpretation, please correct me. So here we go:

The reason she came out to see him in the first place is because she knew —through her Brand— it was her son. Literally everything in the scene makes it clear Casca recognized her son in Griffith. Including the fact Casca does not remember anyone from before her illness, and therefore could not have remembered Griffith himself (and would not have reacted like that if she had).

So the main argument you used against me is that up until now, the only thing the story told us Casca had that's spiritual is her brand, everything else is speculation (like the one I did, that she was corrupted like her child), and so the only way that Casca can feel the presence of her son is through it.
So how does the brand works? it does two things, the first thing is that it's similar to a light in the dark for evil spirit, the second things is that it start to bleed/hurt when something spiritual is nearby, the amount/way it bleed/hurt depends on what's make it react, the distance doesn't seem to affect it, once it's in range, no matter how close, the brand will react the same way (I'm not sure about that, I'm basing myself on chapter 7 when the brand suddenly react to Femtom at full strengh, and I know the early chapters have problems of coherence with the rest, so correct me if I'm wrong). So what do we get from that? It's not a radar, so even if we assume Casca's brand can detect her child whereas Guts can't, she wouldn't have been able to know his exact location (and she did that feat three time). So this is why I made my hypothesis in the first place, because it's make no sense for Casca to detect her child the way she does with the brand considering how it works, and so it must something else, be it an ability of the brand Guts has yet to discover, the power of insanity or another spiritual power coming from elsewhere.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 351
« Reply #133 on: December 13, 2017, 04:40:40 PM »
So the main argument you used against me is that up until now, the only thing the story told us Casca had that's spiritual is her brand, everything else is speculation (like the one I did, that she was corrupted like her child), and so the only way that Casca can feel the presence of her son is through it.

That process of elimination isn't necessary. The story shows us directly that Casca feels the presence of her son through her brand.

So how does the brand works? it does two things, the first thing is that it's similar to a light in the dark for evil spirit, the second things is that it start to bleed/hurt when something spiritual is nearby, the amount/way it bleed/hurt depends on what's make it react, the distance doesn't seem to affect it, once it's in range, no matter how close, the brand will react the same way (I'm not sure about that, I'm basing myself on chapter 7 when the brand suddenly react to Femtom at full strengh, and I know the early chapters have problems of coherence with the rest, so correct me if I'm wrong).

It's "Femto" and there's no "chapter 7". Also, brand reacts to astral beings and distance, evilness and amount of power all play a role in the time of reaction it produces.

So what do we get from that? It's not a radar

Clearly you haven't paid much attention to the story. How do you think Guts tracked apostles during his Black Swordsman period? He did it through his brand. This is explicitly stated in the manga. The brand allows Guts to immediately know when an apostle is nearby... and to track it down. Among other things, it also allowed him to know Flora was a powerful being, but not an evil one.

Casca has a special relationship to her son, which isn't surprising, and just like Guts can sense and track down apostles, she can sense and locate her son. The manga repeatedly shows it happening.

Offline darnage

Re: Episode 351
« Reply #134 on: December 14, 2017, 05:08:15 AM »
That process of elimination isn't necessary. The story shows us directly that Casca feels the presence of her son through her brand.
When?

Clearly you haven't paid much attention to the story. How do you think Guts tracked apostles during his Black Swordsman period? He did it through his brand. This is explicitly stated in the manga. The brand allows Guts to immediately know when an apostle is nearby... and to track it down. Among other things, it also allowed him to know Flora was a powerful being, but not an evil one.
Yes, he used his brand to track down apostles, but he only use it to know the general position, out of the three apostles we saw him track down and kill, he learned about the snake lord before the start of his small arc, we don't know either how he learned about the slug count and Rosine doesn't even have a proper human form, and they just run into each other. It's never said he can use it as a radar, he just use it to know the general area, then look for who it might be, wich isn't hard since every apostles kill dozens of humans in the exact same way every month without even trying to hide it, so he just have to follow the bodies.

Casca has a special relationship to her son, which isn't surprising, and just like Guts can sense and track down apostles, she can sense and locate her son. The manga repeatedly shows it happening.
Yes, the manga show Casca sense her son, but it's never said it was through the brand, they have been together six time, three time as a foetus and three time as the moonlight boy, during the three time as a foetus, there's his birth during wich ghosts are flying around, that time near a river, where he appeared to shield Casca from zombies, and when he protect her from being consumed by the goo during the conviction arc. They have never been together without an evil being activating the brand, so even if the brand did activate during these encounters, nothing prove it's because of her son. As the moonlight boy, there's the time he was inside Griffith, who was influencing the brand, and the times on the shore and the sea god's island and in both case the brand was neither mentionned nor shown. The manga repeatedly show her sense and locate her son, but it never says how.
The problem I have with Casca using the brand is that she can detect the exact position of her son, the brand cannot do that, because the only thing it does is hurt and bleed when something's nearby, it can be used to know when something is close, but not where exactly.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 10:45:42 AM by darnage »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 351
« Reply #135 on: December 14, 2017, 02:56:53 PM »
When?

I encourage you to re-read the story while paying more attention to it.

Yes, he used his brand to track down apostles, but he only use it to know the general position, out of the three apostles we saw him track down and kill, he learned about the snake lord before the start of his small arc, we don't know either how he learned about the slug count and Rosine doesn't even have a proper human form, and they just run into each other. It's never said he can use it as a radar, he just use it to know the general area, then look for who it might be, wich isn't hard since every apostles kill dozens of humans in the exact same way every month without even trying to hide it, so he just have to follow the bodies.

This is simply untrue. We see Guts rushing to Rosine's precise location in volume 15, which directly contradicts what you're saying. This discussion is a complete waste of time: you're basically refusing to admit what's plain to see to any reader because you're too enamored with the incorrect assumption you came up with.

Yes, the manga show Casca sense her son, but it's never said it was through the brand

As it happens a manga also has a visual component.

They have never been together without an evil being activating the brand, so even if the brand did activate during these encounters, nothing prove it's because of her son.

I don't think you really understand how the brand works...

The problem I have with Casca using the brand is that she can detect the exact position of her son, the brand cannot do that, because the only thing it does is hurt and bleed when something's nearby, it can be used to know when something is close, but not where exactly.

The brand can indeed do that, as evidenced, among other things, by the fact Casca can sense her son through hers.

Offline darnage

Re: Episode 351
« Reply #136 on: December 14, 2017, 10:55:17 PM »
I encourage you to re-read the story while paying more attention to it.
I'm not asking for advice on how to read, I'm asking for a single passage in the manga were Guts use the brand as a radar, and I'm paying attention, for every single one of your argument, as well as mine, I go verify the concerned passage to make sure my memories are rights (well, when I can, but I'll come back to that).

This is simply untrue. We see Guts rushing to Rosine's precise location in volume 15, which directly contradicts what you're saying.
As I just said I was doing, I checked the entire section, from the start of the arc in volume 14 to the moment's when Jill tell the story of Peekaf in volume 15, and here's how the arc goes:
It start around the tree where sacrificial rituals had been done, here Guts free Jill from the bandits. After that Guts and Jill travels to her town, here Guts escape when the villagers discovers Puck. Jill find him and tell him to go hide in a nearby windmill, later in that windmill, Jill explain why the villagers attacked at the sight of Puck, she explain how elves coming from the misty valley are eating the crops and kidnapping children. So at this point, Guts as yet to sense either Rosine or a single one of her fake elves through his brand and he already know where to find them all. Shortly after that, his brand finally react, so he burst out of the windmill, and directly see the huge flying swarm of fakes elves that couldn't be missed unless you're blind. So Guts goes to the town, use a child as a bait, kill a bunch of fake elves using a barn that he set on fire, and right after that, he heard a sound, so he turn around, and Rosine is standing there on a tree. Following a small battle, Guts set up to the misty valley were he know she dwells in thanks to Jill, and since a valley is basically a huge path carved in a mountain, it's not hard to find were to go once you found the valley, who's big enough to be easily located (even more since he can just go in the direction Rosine left to find it). The next night, Jill find him fighting flamming children, and at the next morning, she finally tell him the story of Peekaf.
So, can you tell me where in all that did Guts rushed to Rosine location without any prior knowledge of where she was?
I admit it, I greatly exagerated when I said they just kind of run into each other, but your argument isn't just exageration like mine, it's plain wrong.

I don't think you really understand how the brand works...
Then explain it to me, and please tell me from where you get your explanation, as a said, I always check the manga for every argument, so you just have to point out where in the manga you get that the brand, who's only thing it can do is inflict pain on a single point, can work as a radar. (and you can go check on google, there isn't a single radar that only need a single point to work, they all need at least a 2D surface)

The brand can indeed do that, as evidenced, among other things, by the fact Casca can sense her son through hers.
We know the brand work as a radar because Casca use it like that.
And we know Casca use the brand because it work as a radar.
Great circular reasoning. Also "among other things" is the one single thing you need to prove to destroy my entire argumentation, and the only actual argumentation you made to attempt to prove it in your comment, with Rosine, was wrong.

This discussion is a complete waste of time: you're basically refusing to admit what's plain to see to any reader because you're too enamored with the incorrect assumption you came up with.
Hey, I'm trying my best, I would gladly change my opinion but when your arguments aren't plain wrong like with Rosine, you just keep repeating how I obviously didn't get the story without actually telling me what passage I'm interpreting wrong. As I said early, I always try to verify my claims in the manga before saying anything, and yet in that entire comment you just did, who's made of five different arguments, the only one I could go check was wrong. In fact, in your comment before that one, I could also only check a single one of your arguments, about the black swordsman arc, and your response to me pointing out it was wrong was with Rosine, who was even more wrong.

As i said in the comment that restarted that discussion, "if it's me that make an error of interpretation, please correct me", so could you please stop saying as argument that "It's explicitly stated somewhere in the manga that you're wrong, it's so obvious you're wrong I won't even bother to tell where it's stated", and actually tell me where it is stated, because beside two wrong examples, you have yet to do that.

Online jackson_hurley

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Re: Episode 351
« Reply #137 on: December 14, 2017, 11:22:44 PM »
Well these two passages from the manga might help out a bit.

Volume 14 Skullknight to Guts :"If you mean to pursue the inhumans, follow the guidance of that brand." Episode Demon child or infant from dark horse.

And volume 22 Guts to himself :"It was an aimless journey relying just on strange rumors and the subtle sensations of the brand..." Episode The rent world

Now that does kind of say that the brand can be use as some kind of radar. The way I see it, it just doesn't work perfectly like a real radar with a bip and a ping, but an unnatural feeling that serve as a radar once you know how it works/feels. As in, I don't think Guts can sense where all the apostles are because he has the brand. The closer you get from one or something evil, the greater the feeling/reaction.

I'm pretty sure after a couple of nights fighter the specters got him to be able to differentiate the apostles from lesser creature and if he started to feel something a bit I'm sure he'd go that way to find out.

In my opinion.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 03:44:22 AM by jackson_hurley »

Offline DANGERDOOOOM

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Re: Episode 351
« Reply #138 on: December 15, 2017, 12:29:20 AM »
**Grabs popcorn** I think it's just safe to agree with Aaz on all these points, darnage. These points you bring up aren't as trivial as you may think.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 351
« Reply #139 on: December 15, 2017, 01:08:13 AM »
I'm not asking for advice on how to read, I'm asking for a single passage in the manga were Guts use the brand as a radar, and I'm paying attention

What you're asking for is of no consequence to me. You clearly should be reading the story more closely. For example I've already given you a passage where Guts uses his brand to pinpoint the location of an apostle, but you couldn't be bothered to find it.

So, can you tell me where in all that did Guts rushed to Rosine location without any prior knowledge of where she was?



please tell me from where you get your explanation, as a said, I always check the manga for every argument

Look at the lines jackson_hurley cited. He even gave you the volumes. Will that be enough or do we need to circle the relevant panels in red and mail the pages to you? I mean I trust you when you say you always check the manga, but you must not be doing it very well.

(and you can go check on google, there isn't a single radar that only need a single point to work, they all need at least a 2D surface)

Who cares? That's completely irrelevant to the discussion. The point is that Guts and Casca can both sense astral beings using their brand. Guts is able to differentiate between an apostle and another form of evil creature just through the brand, as shown when Ganishka first appears in Vritannis. Guts is able to track down enemies through his brand. Casca can sense her child when he's nearby. All of these things are told or shown in the manga, and there's much more. You just need to pay attention to the story.

We know the brand work as a radar because Casca use it like that.

Yeah, like in this instance.



Hey, I'm trying my best

Your best isn't quite enough. Now please stop derailing this thread.