Author Topic: Episode 354  (Read 12486 times)

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Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #75 on: February 25, 2018, 12:54:40 AM »
I would've been the first to roll up the welcome wagon for our old friend, translator and creator of the board's most popular thread, but why aren't you using your old account, Ranemaka (not that I'm one to talk =)?

Would be cool to have you back though, even for only once in a series occasions, and your write up was lovely. For us old timers, Berserk is a truly unique yet viable way to mark the passage of time in one's life. :ganishka:

Offline stein

Re: Episode 354
« Reply #76 on: February 25, 2018, 07:18:08 AM »
Ah, it's too much.  No story has ever impacted me like Berserk does.  I was hoping the sequence would end in a final panel with Casca opening her eyes, and Miura delivered!  :casca:  I started reading in 2003, so not quite as long as some others here, but it sure was a long journey to this point.  :judo:  I don' think I've ever as enthusiastically thought, "What happens next?" as I have now.

Offline Judo

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #77 on: February 25, 2018, 12:28:10 PM »
This episode sent shivers down my spine. I was literally stunned by the last page.
Never before has it been more clear how an elaborate narration can pay off over time.
I feel kinda privileged to be able to witness this story grow since I discovered the Manga 2001.

And a big thanks to SK.net for being a constant beacon of high-quality Berserk-fandom.
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Taking the audience to a jungian journey into the collective unconscious by using the shadow as a metaphor for the primal self that gets repressed by the modern persona... and also by using an underground setting and labyrinth office design to represent both: the depths of the psyche and the dungeon-like isolation of our increasingly mechanistic society which prevents people from finding satisfying work or meaningful connections with others.

Offline Kaladin

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #78 on: February 25, 2018, 09:46:32 PM »

Farnese: You will be surely able to meet him.

Forgot to say but thanks for the speedy summary! I was wondering if the Japanese text matches the quote above, or is it something along the lines of "We will surely meet again" or something else.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #79 on: February 25, 2018, 10:08:30 PM »
Forgot to say but thanks for the speedy summary! I was wondering if the Japanese text matches the quote above, or is it something along the lines of "We will surely meet again" or something else.

What you read was from the Korean source, and Aaz said it could contain errors as a result. We don't have access to the Japanese pages yet, but we will in a few days.

In other news, podcast is up: http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=15463


 
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 11:50:16 PM by Walter »
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline GTZ

Re: Episode 354
« Reply #80 on: February 26, 2018, 01:22:03 PM »
It's my first post since almost 10 years.

I suscribed in this communauty to be the most closer to the real information and comment about Berserk and during all this years i never be disapointed by the communauty.

Like a lot here, i began reading Berserk in 2004, and wait fort 14 years this moment.

The same as everyone, i am atonished by this episode, it's a sentiment i can't really express, accomplissement ? Free of a huge burden ? Something i wait during so long, that it became a part of myself. And now a new step for me and for the manga and the Berserk Communauty.

I am happy to see good comment too, in some poor place we can read some curious comment about the retrieval of Casca and a weird course of action of her (like join Griffith/Femto...).

I will not repeat that everyone has said, but a little, this arc was very good, very well maid. Some complain about the representation of the rape, but i join Aaz about it (in a post earler), the precedent episode with the ascension of the montain of corps, express it i think. With the Penis Monster representation.

However, i think by this episode that Casca see a lot of the Falcon troup die. We didn't expect it really during the eclypse, because during this time, in the manga, we are concentrate on Guts. But it's normal that the eclypse memory for Casca concentrate a lot about it. Because, Guts was'nt here ton see it, but Casca see all the member of Hawk die.

A course of action i alway considerate after the awakening of Casca, it's the role of Casca. She is the real leader of the Falcon Troup, and like Ricket say it to Griffith he is in the old one, the real one, no the falcon of light. What i mean, is Casca will maybe, lead a new troup of Falcon, lead all the person who oppose the new world created by Femto.

It's difficult to express it very well in english.

Thanks a lot everyone and please pardon me for every writing mistake i made in my post.

See ya.

Edit : I listen the postcast. Nice work, the first one i listen.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #81 on: February 27, 2018, 02:11:26 PM »
I wish I'd mentioned it on the podcast, but it seems to me that an immediate crisis for a restored Casca could be that she'll be suicidal. She might even be placed on a suicide watch kind of situation, with Danan and others trying to help her cope. And I  can only really imagine one cure for that scenario ó her child (presuming she doesn't remember it immediately). Whether his existence is revealed to her directly by SK or Danan (not a great option), or if like in the past, the child appears before her to stop her from serious injury ó to herself.

It's also possible that my mind is too hasty in leaping to the next likely story milestone, and not being open to the other possibilities of what will happen with Casca/the group in the interim.
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Offline Smith

Re: Episode 354
« Reply #82 on: February 27, 2018, 02:34:34 PM »
My concern would be if she remember what happen during the period while she was insane. For eg Farnese and schierke.

Or if she remember that back in vol 23, Guts did accidentally tries to harm her.
It piss me off when I see weaklings, it make me want to crush them

Offline Archer1215

Re: Episode 354
« Reply #83 on: February 27, 2018, 04:04:28 PM »
My concern would be if she remember what happen during the period while she was insane. For eg Farnese and schierke.

Or if she remember that back in vol 23, Guts did accidentally tries to harm her.

Well I wouldnít call it an accident, but I do believe she will remember this event in some capacity. What would her reaction be? Who can say? They did share this traumatic experience with one another and after remembering those events I could see her being a bit more understanding of everything Guts has been through, seeing as they both became broken in their own ways as a result. But I also wouldnít discount the possibility of her still being afraid and distrustful of him after she comes back. She is the only one who knows about that incident. Not even Puck, who has been with Guts longer than anyone in the party  knows the real reason Casca is afraid of Guts. Itís something personal that they will have to talk about at least.

But this depends on whether Casca retains her post-Eclipse memories right away. I donít see why she would forget them, and I also think it would be a little cheap if she did, but thereís no telling in what capacity she will remember things. And with her waking up after regaining her sanity and realizing that the Eclipse wasnít just a bad dream, I have a feeling she wonít be completely rational right away. Maybe it is logical for her to try to be more understanding of Gutsí POV in light of their shared experience, but it isnít guaranteed she will want to think about things logically at first.

And what if she does understand what he has been through but still doesnít want to forgive him? I donít think she will hate Guts for the selfish things that he did, but it isnít unrealistic at all for her to be upset with him. In fact, I think itís highly probable she will be. But if that is the case, then there will no doubt be future opportunities for them to work through their issues together and rebuild their relationship (even if it is no longer as lovers). There are so many ways this could play out, and I couldnít be more excited about the future of the story.


Offline BiQ--

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #84 on: February 27, 2018, 04:21:15 PM »
Regardless if she remembers the time when Guts was possessed and assaulted her, and even if she doesn't bear conscious ill will towards him if she does, she might still have quite uncontrollable feelings of fear of him.

Offline Archer1215

Re: Episode 354
« Reply #85 on: February 27, 2018, 04:31:24 PM »
Regardless if she remembers the time when Guts was possessed and assaulted her, and even if she doesn't bear conscious ill will towards him if she does, she might still have quite uncontrollable feelings of fear of him.

Just a mild correction, but Guts wasnít possessed when he sexually assaulted her. He was however possessed by a spirit when he began strangling her beforehand during a separate incident (although he does wonder if those were his own feelings of malice that caused him to do that and not the spritís). This is even set up as the reason Puck believed that Casca feared Guts, keeping him oblivious of the latterís assault.

And yeah, Iím honestly not expecting those feelings of fear to magically disappear. That just seems like wishful thinking. But maybe weíll be finding out next month!  :slan:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #86 on: March 01, 2018, 09:01:46 PM »
Forgot to say but thanks for the speedy summary! I was wondering if the Japanese text matches the quote above, or is it something along the lines of "We will surely meet again" or something else.

There is no subject in the Japanese sentence. However, given the context, it is pretty obviously referring to their previous exchange in episode 350 (where the Sprite says there's someone she wants to meet, and Farnese says she'll definitely help her meet him). So the version I posted is correct.

Or if she remember that back in vol 23, Guts did accidentally tries to harm her.

I've often seen people put a lot of emphasis on those events, which makes me think they don't understand their purpose. When Guts gets possessed and strangles Casca, it makes her afraid of him. It also shows he can't protect her perfectly by himself. It underlines how having to protect someone instead of fighting alone wears him down. Later, when he loses it and assaults her again, the point is that he can't even trust himself anymore. That's what tips the scales and makes him accept the company of Isidro, Farnese and Serpico. That's why he reluctantly lets people in: so they can look after Casca.

The point I'm making here is that those scenes have already served their purpose. Will they be referenced again? Probably. And it might even be Guts that tells her about it, out of guilt. But will it be a huge, pivotal plot point? I don't think so. Casca has been through much worse, and Guts himself arguably wronged her more when he left her alone for over two years to go hunt down apostles. They also have much more important things to care about. Like their son. Or Femto, the one who ruined their lives.

Not even Puck, who has been with Guts longer than anyone in the party  knows the real reason Casca is afraid of Guts.

You're mistaken. The sexual assault isn't the "real" reason Casca feared Guts. She became afraid of Guts after he strangled her. This is very clearly depicted in the manga and we see Guts reflect on it. That's why he then tied her up (which made her hate him more). The fact he forcefully kissed her and bit her breast several days or weeks later didn't help with the situation, but she had already stopped trusting him at that time (which is why she fled while he dozed off and stumbled into the brigands' camp). And we never see that second assault as making a difference in her behavior.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #87 on: March 01, 2018, 10:47:25 PM »
The point I'm making here is that those scenes have already served their purpose. Will they be referenced again? Probably. And it might even be Guts that tells her about it, out of guilt. But will it be a huge, pivotal plot point? I don't think so.

Sorry, #TimesUp, Guts!

The scandal of the accusations will be so great Guts will have to leave the series. Meaning the main character will fittingly become Cas.. GRIFFITH! Who conveniently denies any wrongdoing in the pursuit of his dream(s). :griffnotevil:

Kidding aside,  it would be interesting if she didn't remember and he was put in a position of whether or not to confess it. Maybe HE won't be comfortable with her out of guilt as you said.

Casca has been through much worse, and Guts himself arguably wronged her more when he left her alone for over two years to go hunt down apostles. They also have much more important things to care about. Like their son. Or Femto, the one who ruined their lives.

I agree that there's a lot of over-interpretation of those scenes, much like the Skull Knight's infamous warning about Casca's wishes, and you put their straightforward purpose very succinctly. But I'm still tantalized by their future potential for drama; I think they, along with the aforementioned abandonment, could contribute to a chilly reunion and long reconciliation between them, even if they're naturally relieved and happy to see each other initially (Guts might also have unreasonable expectations now that she's "back").

What really makes those scenes still relevant to me is exactly what you said about Guts not being able to trust even himself in the end. I think that realization can go for Casca too, especially given the nature and cause of her trauma, her re-victimization, and Guts tragically becoming a part of it himself. He was an exception before that, earned her trust as a man and differentiated himself from most others she encountered as a trusty protector, and those attacks, particularly the latter, obviously put him on the other side of the equation and I wonder if the betrayal of that won't carry over a bit in her pain.

In short, the heartbreaking thing about it to me isn't how bad it was relative to Casca's other experiences or whether or not it ultimately changes how they'll feel about each other (I don't think it will), it's that it made Guts "one of them" instead of the one she could trust, which is almost the worst trespass. I kind of hope it's an issue just so they can work it out and have some catharsis.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 03:29:22 AM by Griffith »

Offline Theozilla

Re: Episode 354
« Reply #88 on: March 02, 2018, 06:03:51 AM »
Just wanted to echo Griffithís sentiments regarding Gutsí sexual assault of Casca and how its potential consequence may/should be adressed. Like Griffith said it may not have been the worst trauma Casca has experienced relative to all the other stuff she has suffered, but itís still significant enough, and uniquely to Cascaís and Gutsí relationship, that it warrants specific direct narrative addressment.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #89 on: March 02, 2018, 08:59:18 AM »
Miura's comment for this issue: I went to the exhibition of Noriyoshi Ohrai. A great part of our current drawing style resulted from the influence we received from him in our high school days.


What really makes those scenes still relevant to me is exactly what you said about Guts not being able to trust even himself in the end. I think that realization can go for Casca too, especially given the nature and cause of her trauma, her re-victimization, and Guts tragically becoming a part of it himself.

Well sure, but let's not forget what Guts & Casca's relationship was like to begin with. For example how she stabbed him with a sword before they first made love, or how he strangled her (then broke down crying) during the act. Like I said, it's not that those scenes are unimportant, but we have to remember who the real Casca was. A warrior who could fend for herself. A military leader who stood up to Guts when it was needed. That's the Casca we're getting back.

And of course, things are very different now, but that's also kind of the point. They both went through the Eclipse, and it has left a trauma that has dwarfed everything else. Guts is still completely haunted by it, and we've already been warned that Casca will be as well. I think everything else will be secondary to that, and to their objectives going forward (i.e. their son). Which is why it seems to me that people who focus too much on those two scenes from volume 23 are missing the big picture.

Offline RaffoBaffo

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #90 on: March 02, 2018, 09:34:31 AM »
The Digital Edition of YA is out:
https://www.hakusensha-e.net/top?id=14991
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #91 on: March 02, 2018, 09:53:45 AM »
The Digital Edition of YA is out:
https://www.hakusensha-e.net/top?id=14991

Thanks for the reminder Raffo. Something I'm just now realizing, but the online editions of YA don't include the pin-up pages anymore, which means they also have a different cover. I like them better this way to be honest.

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #92 on: March 02, 2018, 12:46:53 PM »
Thanks for the reminder Raffo. Something I'm just now realizing, but the online editions of YA don't include the pin-up pages anymore, which means they also have a different cover. I like them better this way to be honest.

What kind of cover are offering for these release if I may ask? You got me curious.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #93 on: March 02, 2018, 01:00:28 PM »
What kind of cover are offering for these release if I may ask? You got me curious.

It's shown on the link that Raffo posted. Instead of the regular bikini-clad woman, it shows Futari-H with a few other characters, including Guts.
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #94 on: March 02, 2018, 04:35:31 PM »
Well sure, but let's not forget what Guts & Casca's relationship was like to begin with. For example how she stabbed him with a sword before they first made love, or how he strangled her (then broke down crying) during the act. Like I said, it's not that those scenes are unimportant, but we have to remember who the real Casca was. A warrior who could fend for herself. A military leader who stood up to Guts when it was needed. That's the Casca we're getting back.

And of course, things are very different now, but that's also kind of the point. They both went through the Eclipse, and it has left a trauma that has dwarfed everything else. Guts is still completely haunted by it, and we've already been warned that Casca will be as well. I think everything else will be secondary to that, and to their objectives going forward (i.e. their son). Which is why it seems to me that people who focus too much on those two scenes from volume 23 are missing the big picture.

Good points all, and like I said, while it's not going to ultimately make or break anything I don't think that particular incident is necessarily baked in to the inherent violence of their lives and relationship either. It's also been part of the big picture since it happened, so I sympathize with people extrapolating that forward, because whether it will remain relevant or not is part of the BIG question of what the awakened Casca will actually be like. She'll still have her trauma from the Eclipse, and, if she remembers it, the subsequent hurt that resulted in their relationship cooling since 23, but obviously regaining their history and understanding of circumstances can mitigate that, perhaps fully. I don't know, I feel like you and I are discussing possible points of emphasis on two adjacent shades of gray here. I guess I wouldn't be surprised either way, and you feel more strongly it won't be a big deal. I definitely think it'll be relevant to the conversation with those two, but as you point out, Casca ultimately has much bigger fish to fry.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #95 on: March 02, 2018, 05:22:50 PM »
I don't know, I feel like you and I are discussing possible points of emphasis on two adjacent shades of gray here.

Yeah pretty much. Like I said, I do expect it to come up at some point, just not to be its own pivotal plot element that will make or break their relationship.
And I also think things that are never mentioned, like Guts' reaction to the Demon Child's birth or his subsequent treatment of him, have potential to be big points of contention.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #96 on: March 02, 2018, 05:54:50 PM »
Yeah pretty much. Like I said, I do expect it to come up at some point, just not to be its own pivotal plot element that will make or break their relationship.

Yeah, and as you pointed out, it already served to break their relationship so that could very well be taken for granted at this point and so we continue from there (they don't need to break it again before mending, just deal with it).

Farnese, future amateur therapist, will work on their couples' counseling and present the findings in a chapter of her upcoming book, Burning the Witch Inside.

And I also think things that are never mentioned, like Guts' reaction to the Demon Child's birth or his subsequent treatment of him, have potential to be big points of contention.

Definitely, and that could very well be two-sided. I still don't think Guts is going to be crazy about the Demon Child re-entering their lives in whatever form that takes. He finally softened on it a bit, but I think it's going to take a while for him to come around on the idea that he has a "legitimate" offspring that may not be a complete monster. Ultimately, I think the idea of taking their son, and their lives, back is what turns things for both of them though.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #97 on: March 02, 2018, 07:30:06 PM »
Yeah, and as you pointed out, it already served to break their relationship so that could very well be taken for granted at this point and so we continue from there (they don't need to break it again before mending, just deal with it).

Yep!

Definitely, and that could very well be two-sided. I still don't think Guts is going to be crazy about the Demon Child re-entering their lives in whatever form that takes. He finally softened on it a bit, but I think it's going to take a while for him to come around on the idea that he has a "legitimate" offspring that may not be a complete monster. Ultimately, I think the idea of taking their son, and their lives, back is what turns things for both of them though.

I think Guts will feel bad about his past behavior (he really was an asshole to the child). I've never forgotten the two pages at the end of episode 238 where he thinks about him. I think they're indicative of what's to come. There's tons of ways this could go, of course, but to me the real deal down the line will be facing the fact the boy is essentially fused with Femto. That could lead to an impossible choice: should they try to kill Griffith and kill their son in the process? It's easy to see how Guts and Casca could fall on opposite sides of the issue (though I would hope that all would end well eventually).

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #98 on: March 02, 2018, 07:49:51 PM »
Chiming in here from the peanut gallery. I just wanted to say that it's pretty amazing that we're having these conversations now, when it's no longer a distant hypothetical for when these issues will actually be addressed in the story. We really made it!  :ubik:
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #99 on: March 02, 2018, 09:48:42 PM »
I think Guts will feel bad about his past behavior (he really was an asshole to the child). I've never forgotten the two pages at the end of episode 238 where he thinks about him. I think they're indicative of what's to come.

Yeah, that whole episode was fantastic and he was waxing pretty nostalgic and certainly treating the subject with more thoughtfulness and regard than ever before. When he learns the truth he'll be pissed too; it's like adding injury to insult to injury. I think he'll come around fittingly to the Rob Roy point of view, "It's not the child that needs killing."

Quote
There's tons of ways this could go, of course, but to me the real deal down the line will be facing the fact the boy is essentially fused with Femto. That could lead to an impossible choice: should they try to kill Griffith and kill their son in the process? It's easy to see how Guts and Casca could fall on opposite sides of the issue (though I would hope that all would end well eventually).

Well, the mega-convenient feel good option is that they can somehow be separated and/or Griffith destroyed and the child spared, maybe even in the same fell swoop! Hallelujah! As cheap and impossible as that sounds, it actually makes a bit of sense when you think a bit bigger: if the whole Idea/God Hand power structure were to be somehow destroyed or destabilized, perhaps all traces could be removed, leaving behind a relatively human child and de-branded parents (despite the kid oweing its current existence to that power in the first place; yeah, cheating =). That's some mega happy ending stuff though.

Similarly, but more in the bittersweet direction, the boy could live on as some sort of etheral spirit or at least be said to be saved and cleansed of evil ala Anakin Skywalker, or at least better off dead than damned as Griffith's thrall. This would work well with the child somehow rebelling as his vessel  and sacrificing himself to destroy Griffith/save his parents in a bit of a switch.

Or, yeah, they just have to kill their kid to Griffith for the greater good and it'll be as bad as that sounds. I'd be surprised though if there's not going to be some crazy yet hard won magical solution because that's completely consistent with how we got here (magic ceremonies), so it's a fair game solution as well (and we just went through a fantastic ritual to save/restore a character =). It's almost too perfect a motivation for Griffith's destruction, and the effort that would take, to coincide with the child's salvation, as well as our heroes and the world.

Chiming in here from the peanut gallery. I just wanted to say that it's pretty amazing that we're having these conversations now, when it's no longer a distant hypothetical for when these issues will actually be addressed in the story. We really made it!  :ubik:

I had a similar moment replying to Aaz earlier where I had to correct myself talking about Casca's return like it was still coming. She's already back!  :guts: :casca: