Hellraiser's Cenobites and the God Hand Members

SexyCharlotte

All those who wander are not always lost
After reading some of the heated posts on the other forums, especially the one concerning Griffith/Gatts and the whole notion of good and evil, it brings to mind even more comparisons to Hellraiser, and not just the physical attributes of the God Hand.

Hellraiser's 'Behelit' was the Lemarchand Configuration, the puzzle box that fell into one's hands. Throughout the Hellraiser series, it is shown that each Cenobite was also human at one time, and the became the guardians or 'gods' of the box after opening it and falling prey to whatever 'dark side' they had...hopelessness, ambition ( the lead Cenobite PinHead, for example, at one time was a heartless Colonel in World War I), boredom. But it had to be a void or a darkness within the human heart ( the original story was entitled THE HELLBOUND HEART) that opened the doorways to begin with.

The Cenobites said, " We are angels to some, demons to others."

Griffith also says," God or the devil, what's the difference?"

In looking at some of the apostles, for example...such as Wyald. When he died, he was a broken, twisted old man. Perhaps before he became an apostle, he too, had seen broken dreams, hopelessness, and a body wracked by age and pain.

You cannot always blame people or brand them as evil for wanting something better for themselves. Could we say that selfishness then is evil?

BERSERK attracted me because of those very paradoxes it presented in its characters, and it's story line. No one is truly innocent, no one is free of dark shadows or doubts in his soul. Not even Griffith. You saw him as a poor kid, playing soldier in the streets, and looking up at the castle, wanting to raise himself above all in his quest for being a king. His dreams and ambitions were lofty. Behind his angelic facade was something so fierce...it indeed, burned like 'the bonfire of dreams.' But his bonfire...would not have been so strong and surely would not have existed if it weren't for all the 'other flames' that enabled him to burn so brightly.

Guts says something deep there...he is not part of the bonfire, but someone who stopped to warm himself by the fire, only to continue on his own path.

But back to Hellraiser...it was easy to peg them as evil seeing as how they looked and how they did the bidding of bringing suffering and pain to those who dared to open the box. But as they said too, " There is no turning back." ( once you choose fate/fate chooses you, you cannot go back). None of the Cenobites ever really remembered at one time, they were human too...in the process of turning into a Cenobite, they lost their humanity...until a few were brutally reminded of how they became Cenobites to begin with). But the motives behind why they opened the doorways to that other dimension said that within their hearts, there had to be something they were desperately looking for to begin with.

The ' main Gods' of the Box was Leviathan ( similiar to Idea) and the Engineer.( the 'keeper'). Leviathan was created out of a need and a desire to find the so-called meaning to humanity's endless quest for seeking 'salvation' or 'answers' to life. A purpose.

I think that like the Cenobites, the God Hand members, including Femto/Griffith, as well as the apostles ( Wyald, Zodd, Roshina, the Snake Baron, the Count) had lost their purpose somehow as humans, and were drawn to a darker fate by being given the behelits. Or, their underlying motivations were greed, anger ( the Count enraged at his wife) or desperation.

Could you say then that these powerful things, powerful emotions, which are part of human's dual nature, was the force behind Griffith's decision as well? It did not surprise me as his ambition was selfish, ruthless, and darkly motivated that he became Femto. He was also childish too...and when someone is that way they don't think about the consquences, just their own preservation.

LG
 

IKAROW

I love YaBB 1 Gold!
The family meeting...

Godhand%20copy.jpg


hellraiser_cenobites.jpg
 
Nope, that was only in part 2, and everything after the original wasn't "official"; CB only wrote the first part as far as I know. Every part twists and changes the whole story to a different angle.

But the whole series sucked, so it doesn't really matter.
 
P

psymont

Guest
there have been 2 hellraiser straight to video releases since bloodlines(part 4) in the theatre .... one is called inferno and the other is called "?" .... they are mystery type horror movies and are actually,when compared to the rest, quite good ....
 

SexyCharlotte

All those who wander are not always lost
Psymont said:
there have been 2 hellraiser straight to video releases since bloodlines(part 4) in the theatre .... one is called inferno and the other is called "?" .... they are mystery type horror movies and are actually,when compared to the rest, quite good ....

Hell on Earth I think is what it is called. I quit watching afte Hellraiser IV Bloodline.

So it would be interesting to theorize HOW Void, for example, got his brain exposed...is Idea the one responsible for transforming the humans into what they looked like as God Hand members...oh wait, Griffith became reborn as Femto IN the hand, right??

But Void looked like he got the worst of all of them...skull ripped off, lips ripped off...he is FUBAR.

LG
 

SexyCharlotte

All those who wander are not always lost
SaiyajinNoOuji said:
But FUBAR is in for the God-hands, Void is the GAP dude of the God-hands and Apostiles. 8)

I'm gonna write a bloody fanfic about how Void got FUBAR in the torture chamber of King G and also how again he gets 'transformed' into his current exposed-brain state LOL

LG
 

Bok Choy

100% Leafy Goodness!
Gaston god of war said:
what the fuck is FUBAR it sounds painful

FUBAR is an acronym for "Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition". It's also the name of a cult Canadian film favourite dealing with people who are FUBARs. 8)
 

SexyCharlotte

All those who wander are not always lost
Bok Choy [Stir-fried with Rice] said:
FUBAR is an acronym for "Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition". It's also the name of a cult Canadian film favourite dealing with people who are FUBARs. 8)

I guess we can say that several Berserk characters have been FUBAR. Griffith c ertainly was in that torture chamber.

LG
 
Lady Griffith said:
Hell on Earth I think is what it is called. I quit watching afte Hellraiser IV Bloodline.

So it would be interesting to theorize HOW Void, for example, got his brain exposed...is Idea the one responsible for transforming the humans into what they looked like as God Hand members...oh wait, Griffith became reborn as Femto IN the hand, right??

But Void looked like he got the worst of all of them...skull ripped off, lips ripped off...he is FUBAR.

LG

My guess is that Void chose his shape. Griffith did choose his, as was made clear in the lost chapter, didn't Idea say "do as you will" to Griffith, after which Griffith asks for wings? And in my translation, Idea says after that "and change this physical field that is your body into a shape suitable for your task"

Which should mean that Griffith could choose his form
so Void probably could do that too
 

SexyCharlotte

All those who wander are not always lost
That may be true that they can choose their form. Personally, I would not have chosen one with my brain exposed.

LG
 

Vampire_Hunter_Bob

Cats are great
Lady Griffith said:
That may be true that they can choose their form. Personally, I would not have chosen one with my brain exposed.

LG

I think their physical condition they are in at the moment has something to do with their form, Griffith had his helmet on and when he changed he had it still. So maybe Void looked like that before he became a God Hand.

- Bob
 

SexyCharlotte

All those who wander are not always lost
Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:
I think their physical condition they are in at the moment has something to do with their form, Griffith had his helmet on and when he changed he had it still. So maybe Void looked like that before he became a God Hand.

- Bob

Yes you're probably right. Remember Mosguz said the 'wise man' was tortured. So Void was probably having his eyes sewn shut and his skull ripped off....ugh...Makes you wonder what they really did do to Griffith's face under the mask.

Conrad and Ubik then, look blind as well. Maybe one was a blind guy and the other also someone being tortured or born disfigured. There was always some dark underlying issue as to why these humans chose to sacrifice those near and dear to become apostles and God Hand members....

LG
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Lady Griffith said:
Yes you're probably right. Remember Mosguz said the 'wise man' was tortured. So Void was probably having his eyes sewn shut and his skull ripped off....ugh...Makes you wonder what they really did do to Griffith's face under the mask.
As silly as I thought this was when I first read it... I think you might have something here, LG. I never even thought about that possibility really. Very cool.
 

puella

Berserk forever
Lady Griffith said:
Yes you're probably right. Remember Mosguz said the 'wise man' was tortured. So Void was probably having his eyes sewn shut and his skull ripped off....ugh...Makes you wonder what they really did do to Griffith's face under the mask.

Well, it may sounds a bit odd but I think Void himself could do it.
I mean he chose to be like that.
He might want to experience extreme pain like the cenobites in the movie.

***umm, I didn't enjoy that movie, anyway. but saw 2-3 of the whole series, I think.
 

Vampire_Hunter_Bob

Cats are great
puella said:
Well, it may sounds a bit odd but I think Void himself could do it.
I mean he chose to be like that.

I don't think he wanted to look like that, he probley was tortured. His features after becoming a God Hand were probley exaggerated. His skull was ripped open as a human now that he's a God Hand he's Brain is sticking out of his skull.

- Bob
 

puella

Berserk forever
Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:
I don't think he wanted to look like that, he probley was tortured. His features after becoming a God Hand were probley exaggerated. His skull was ripped open as a human now that he's a God Hand he's Brain is sticking out of his skull.

- Bob

I thought about that so simply. Two of Godhands were tortured when they were human?
and is it necessary they chose to be a God Hand at worst state?

I mean some of Godhands could be willing to experience what extreme pain really is. They could want to surpass all pain which a human has.
And they become a Godhand by doing that, choosing no more human. Besides, their sacrifice also means they choose to be no more human.

Anyway, it's just one of hundreds of my speculation about Godhand. :p
 

Vampire_Hunter_Bob

Cats are great
puella said:
I thought about that so simply. Two of Godhands were tortured when they were human?

Looks like it.

I mean some of Godhands could be willing to experience what extreme pain really is. They could want to surpass all pain which a human has.

I don't see why ANY god like being would want to experience extreme pain I wouldn't.

And they become a Godhand by doing that, choosing no more human. Besides, their sacrifice also means they choose to be no more human.

Humans feel pain, then why would they want to feel pain that would make them more human if anything. Just because some stupid movie showed people similar to the God hand wanting to feel pain, dosn't mean thats how it was with the God Hand.

- Bob
 

puella

Berserk forever
Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:
Looks like it.
I just needed some various situation.

I don't see why ANY god like being would want to experience extreme pain I wouldn't.
me, either.

Humans feel pain, then why would they want to feel pain that would make them more human if anything.
Ironically, extreme pain could set them free from feeling pain.
The more we get hit, the less we can feel pain.

Just because some stupid movie showed people similar to the God hand wanting to feel pain, dosn't mean thats how it was with the God Hand.

Yeah. There's no reason the 'stupid' movie should have something to do with berserk.

However, nobody knows why and how they became Godhand.
There can be only thousands of speculations until it is figured out in the manga. I just related Godhands and the cenobites. That's it.
 

SexyCharlotte

All those who wander are not always lost
Pain and pleasure are the themes of Hellraiser...that through extreme pain pleasure could be found.

In Berserk, I think all the Godhand members experienced some kind of pain either mentally or physically ( most likely physically) before they chose to sacrifice and become GodHand. Similarly, take a look at all the apostles. Each one of them had some kind of vulnerability...even Roshina, while she did not have any physical disability, she was a young girl who was not happy with what she had. ( which wasn't much, but it was too late when she realized she had no home to go back to once she became human again).

Berserk's Godhand and apostles were all human at one time. If you look at Griffith, you can guess from there that perhaps other God Hand members might have also been physically disabled somehow. You'll notice that Griffith's form as Femto did indeed incorporate his helmet ( or his 'mask' that he wore to hide his disfigured face as a human). My theory is that in the middle of severe torture Void then called upon the four angels. Conrad and Ubik also appear to be blind. One is wearing dark glasses and the other has his eyes shut. Perhaps they were disfigured at birth, tortured too, or simply misfits.

This is where people lose sympathy for the Godhand and Apostles including Griffith. I know everyone says, well, they could have done the 'right' thing and not sacrificed people near and dear to them. But we know that they were human once, and therefore, subject to the weaknesses all humans are. Some are weaker or angrier than others. I use Wyald as an example a lot because when I remembered his human form, just a beat up, wrinkled old man, he probably didn't want to live like that. Temptation is a bitch. I'm not even sure I'd resist the temptation to get a whole new body form and powers if I was messed up or very angry. Griffith, Void, Wyald, the Snail Count...Roshina...all had individual weaknesses and varying amounts of physical disfigurement or rage inside them.

It was their vulnerability that was played upon. In a moment of rage or weakness they were promised glory. Unfortunately that was a path that led to great misfortune for others.

LG
 

Mizar

Œ©‰Ž•·‚©‰ŽŒ¾‚퉎
Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:
I don't see why ANY god like being would want to experience extreme pain I wouldn't.

Slan loves it. :)

But I agree that the main purpose of the Godhand isn't to experience pleasure through extreme pain like in Hellraiser. The Godhand seem more sophisticated; they try to highlight the full spectrum of humanity's dark side, not only torture and pain.
 

SexyCharlotte

All those who wander are not always lost
Hellraiser was about the spectrum of the darkest side of humanity. I read the book the Hellbound Heart, and in it, it goes much deeper than the movie did. Definitely Slann is a sadomasochist though. Wonder what her specialty was as a prostitute. Bondage? LOL

LG
 
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