Was Griffith a HAPPY individual?

There was one particular scene in the anime and the manga where, at the victory celebration at the King's palace in Midland, where the King gives Griffith and his Hawks titles of nobility. Griffith turns and sees Guts in the window outside, and they both smile at each other. That moment seemed to be the only genuine moment of happiness right there, shown on both their faces. There didn't seem to be any smirk on Griffith's face, but one of real joy at that moment. And we never really saw that ever again or before that.

The weight of his dream was a cross to bear, as Caska mentioned, he was weighed down by it, by its great glory and its terrible burden. Griffith was always so serious. I don't think he was a happy individual. Instead of wondering all the time and questioning whether he was evil or not, maybe the question to be pondered is...is he even capable of happiness? Even if he achieves his goal of the dark King of the World, he would have a sense of self-satisfaction, but I don't see him as happy even then when his dark goal is achieved.

LG

no, I really doubt he ever will be entirely happy. (Anyone here ever read any of the Dragonlance novels? the Twins Trilogy? Griffith reminds me of Raistlin, when he achieves godhood.)

Darok [Shattered Will] said:

no, I really doubt he ever will be entirely happy. (Anyone here ever read any of the Dragonlance novels? the Twins Trilogy? Griffith reminds me of Raistlin, when he achieves godhood.)

Click to expand...

Man, I loved Raistlin.

Siiiiiigh...

Oh, and... Griffith won't be happy until he's emperor of the universe and Guts is his queen...

Darok [Shattered Will] said:

no, I really doubt he ever will be entirely happy. (Anyone here ever read any of the Dragonlance novels? the Twins Trilogy? Griffith reminds me of Raistlin, when he achieves godhood.)

Click to expand...

Yet his ambitions cause the destruction of the world krynn. He eventually became the only god around in the universe, but then he will be left alone, no one to worship him no one to pray for him etc, be alone for the eternal life

Knowing the destruction he will cause, he eventually give in to Dark queen takhisis and be tortured for eternally (or was it, i forgot how he was release)

Agent Smith said:

Yet his ambitions cause the destruction of the world krynn. He eventually became the only god around in the universe, but then he will be left alone, no one to worship him no one to pray for him etc, be alone for the eternal life

Knowing the destruction he will cause, he eventually give in to Dark queen takhisis and be tortured for eternally (or was it, i forgot how he was release)

Click to expand...

exactly. he just kept longing for MORE, for MORE. Thats what I see Griffith doing, were Guts removed from the equation. composed entirely of Power-Hunger, with no satisfaction.

Yeah, Griffith will never be happy, at the most he'll have a moment of happiness and then he'll continue and take over the entire world...


P.S. I think being a God Hand would have been a hell of a lot better than being a king but Griffith had to blow it. Now I hope Guts kills him before he ever acclompishes his goal. You do not know how bad I would love to see the look in Griffiths eyes while he is dying at Guts feet knowing that he'll never accomplish his goal that he went through so much to achieve. That would be a great ending, of course he'd have to cry like a baby as well.

I rather imagine that getting his goal and finding out it wasn't worth the sacrifice would be more of a horror for Griffith.

Darok [Shattered Will] said:

Thats what I see Griffith doing, were Guts removed from the equation. composed entirely of Power-Hunger, with no satisfaction.

Click to expand...

I don't think that Griffith is really power-hungry. He only wanted to be able to fully live and chase after a dream, to see where destiny would take him on that path. I don't think that power in itself is what Griffith is striving for, it's more like living the dream itself is more important to him than the eventual outcome. At least that's the way it looks to me. His obsession for his dream might just be a way to prevent him from dealing with his own feelings and weaknesses buried deep inside (think about how Guts was the only one who made him forget about his dream, and how he 'hated' Guts for that).

So was he really happy while on the road to his castle? On the surface he was I think, or at least he thought he was happy himself. But as mentioned before it may be that his dream was only a facade for him to conceal his unhappiness deep inside behind, so he didn't have to feel or confront it. But it may all catch up to him though once he truly realizes his dream and becomes the new King.

typhonblue said:

I rather imagine that getting his goal and finding out it wasn't worth the sacrifice would be more of a horror for Griffith.

Click to expand...

What sacrifice? You mean the band of hawk? i bet he wouldnt care more old about the hawk, they are just stepping stone anyway to Griffin success

Agent Smith said:

What sacrifice? You mean the band of hawk? i bet he wouldnt care more old about the hawk, they are just stepping stone anyway to Griffin success

Click to expand...

Do you actually read Berserk? Or do you just skim it for battle and sex scenes?

Even if Griffith has no feelings at all for the Band of the Hawks, he still is fighting his feelings for Guts. Griffith is not an emotionless psycho. That's part of Miura's genius, he's managed to take a very human character who, pre-eclipse, is sympathetic and believably motivate him to do despicable things. It's more interesting because Griffith isn't the typical bad guy: "ha ha, I kill you just because!"

And because there's a lot more to Griffith, how he changes as a character between now and the end of the series should bode to be interesting. On of those potentially interesting changes is achieving his dream and then finding out it wasn't worth loosing Guts' admiration, love, what have you, over.

Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Even if Guts gets over his hatred, I can't imagine him with anything more then a cold indifference to Griffith:

Griffith: *sob* My dream is worthless.
Guts: ...
Griffith: But I really did like you. You were the closest thing I ever had to home.
Guts: And you were just a pebble in my path. *walks away without looking back*

Let him live with that regret.

Good points. I think Griffith found Guts to be the ONLY person he considered a friend...and that was overwhelming to someone who was so above everyone else. In the manga, where Griffith meets Guts at the cemetary of Swords, he wants to see if he has feelings still...and then he walks away. Before, it was Guts leaving Griffith behind, and then Griffith did the same to him ( as Millenium Hawk) in the cemetary.

LG

I see Griffith as more satisfied than happy. He contrives his feelings to do react in a way that makes him seem happy. I don't think he'll be every truely happy until he achieves his dream, but he did find happiness and comradere with Gatts.
Winning a battle or gaining another title are just stepping stones to get him to his castle, he's satisfied with these positive results, but it that alone doesn't necessitate happiness. Since he's constantly driving towards his goal, he shows that he's not happy with just the satisfaction of reaching those small steps.
The smiles that he usually give seem like a facade to me. They aren't smiles of happiness or joy, just determination to get what he wants and do the things necessary to obtain his ultimate goal.

Gatts was the only one who distracted him from that goal. He pulled him away from the image that would bring him happiness to find the feelings that genuinely exsist. Though momentary, I think Gatts was the only one who made him feel happy, not in the 'I am the King of the world' sense, but in the feeling of friendship and acceptance.

God I hope this made sense, it's almost 3 a.m. and I should sleep.

I think it can also be argued that Griffith also seemed oddly devoid of emotions of any kind. When you see that scene with Gennon, he basically says, " I have no feelings for you at all, either way..."

In a sense even before Griffith was reborn as the Millenium Hawk, to me, he's always seemed rather 'ethereal' to begin with. ( meaning not 'earthly). Not necessarily Godlike either, but certainly far-removed from the rest of humanity. In fact I believe that his feelings for Guts threw him for a loop so badly that was the reason for his downfall. He just could not deal with emotions so deep...love or hate were alien to him. Guts was the person who made him lose his solid footing not only in terms of his dream ( "you were the only one to make me forget my dream," he says, before he makes the sacrifice) but in terms of his emotions coming into play.

Complex and convoluted...


LG

I agree, Lady Griffith, that he was very VERY ethereal to begin with. And everyone knew that for a long time...everyone said he was like a living legend, a great hero from some other era...that he was just so great and so above everyone else. His ambitions were like...too big for even some people to comprehend, it seemed.

I don't think Griffith was ever happy. I think that he had a constant feeling of being just one step away from his goal, all the time. A constant fleeting feeling. His smile to Guts at the ball was happy, but mixed with that fleeting sense of some accomplishment was the knowledge that he still had so far to go..and how to get there? Always there will be something lingering in his mind, somewhere else to go and something else to do. Not until he would be an old man with an heir would he maybe stop chasing and feel satisfied, and that's if the eclipse and his capture (and I guess Guts leaving) had never happened.

Also, I realized just today that Griffith was considering a simple life with Caska then in that dream he had. He was ready to be with her, he was realizing he actually did have some feelings for her...but it was too late then and she was with Guts. And so what else did he have but to continue after his dream of king and country?

Thinking about it all makes me very sad inside...the loss of friendship...=sigh=