Author Topic: Episode 224  (Read 40364 times)

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Offline Saiki

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Re:Chapter 224
« Reply #50 on: July 14, 2003, 04:44:07 PM »

Offline Wereallmad

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Re:Chapter 224
« Reply #51 on: July 14, 2003, 05:44:24 PM »
You know, I didn't really see how the armor looked anything like the Skullknight's untill this chapter. All i have to say is 'wow'.

I have a feeling that the comming chapters may lend some light on Sk's past. You remember that old 'theory' Olivier posted from the Japanese BBS'? Didn't it too involve a cursed armor? One that was nessesary to save Gaieric's life, but cost him his humanity or something along those lines? It's been a while so I forget.

Offline Bill

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Re:Chapter 224
« Reply #52 on: July 14, 2003, 06:39:24 PM »
Totally new to me, but perhaps the Skully vs. Zodd fight may lay some light on Skullknight's past.
Fairy tales are more than true -
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but because they tell us dragons can be beaten.

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Offline Olivier Hague

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Re:Chapter 224
« Reply #53 on: July 14, 2003, 10:34:19 PM »
You remember that old 'theory' Olivier posted from the Japanese BBS'?
I've been looking for it recently, but I can't seem to find it... Was the topic erased or something like that? ?_?
Quote
Didn't it too involve a cursed armor? One that was nessesary to save Gaieric's life, but cost him his humanity or something along those lines?
The leader of the Elves changed a dying Gaiseric into the Skull Knight. I don't think it said anything about a cursed armor, but... well, just look at the Skull Knight. ^^;
Also, one of the things I didn't like about that "theory" (well, it wasn't a "theory" according to the guy who posted, of course ^^; ) was the whole deal about the real world and the God Hand's not being clearly separated around that time... But it kinda looks like what's happening right now in the actual manga, and Slan even tells the Skull Knight that "he should know"... ^^;
« Last Edit: July 14, 2003, 10:36:55 PM by Olivier Hague »

Offline korkor

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Re:Chapter 224
« Reply #54 on: July 15, 2003, 12:05:31 AM »
wow, i never heard of this theory, but if you find it could u please post a link up?

and do you think the "curse" on the new armor is that it grants imortality or something like the sort?
I said that

Online Walter

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Re:Chapter 224
« Reply #55 on: July 15, 2003, 12:12:21 AM »
Like I said, it's not very satisfying... But there are some details that sound "authentic" (and some other one that are just...  :P )...

Anyway...

SPOILERS
(maybe  ;D )
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An Occultation occurred at the Tower of Retribution a thousand years ago. That was Void's "birth".
Two years later, another "artificial" Occultation was to be triggered by a man. That's how the Skull Knight was eventually created.

Gaiseric wasn't in the Tower of Retribution.
The screams of the wiseman who was kept in the torture room of the tower gave birth to the God of the Abyss (the Idea of Evil) who was still "chaotic" (bad English?  :-/ ) and wasn't "shaped" yet before that. The God of the Abyss answered to the screams by initiating the Occultation.

Gaiseric, in his capital of Midland, heard about that phenomenon, and wanted to become a "god" himself by triggering an Occultation and sacrificing his people.
Void saw that and, with the help of "Apostles" he created, destroyed Midland to punish him. The frontier between our world and Void's wasn't clearly established yet, back then (Olivier: that's got to be the worst part of the whole thing :( ).

Gaiseric was badly wounded, but survived. As he was dying, he was saved by Elves, whose existence was still legendary at that time.
But because of what happened to him, he was too weak to fight anymore, he couldn't even wield a sword. The leader of the Elves saw that Gaiseric felt guilty for his sins, so he (she?) told him about the Elves' origins and explained him that he could expiate by being "revived" by them into a Skull Knight to destroy Void, the monster he created.

The Crimson Beherit was created by the God of the Abyss from Void's crystallized tear of blood.

The Elves are the materialization of feelings, just as the God of the Abyss is. They're just the "opposite" of the Idea of Evil. They were created by men and symbolize their hopes and positive thoughts.


Well... As you can see, there are some problems...
An "artificial Occultation" _2 years_ after a regular one? That reminds me of what happend with Femto's birth and Griffith's rebirth... A bit too easy...
Also, if Void was the first God Hand, he should have been born less than 1000 years ago... Of course, there's always the possibility that the Skull Knight killed a God Hand...
The whole explanation about the 4/5 Angles who destroyed Midland is extremely fishy, in my humble opinion.

Apart from that...
Well, that would explain why the corpses in the Tower of Rebirth weren't "eaten" and all had the brand on their forehead...
That would also explain why Puck sensed some "Elven aura" around the Skull Knight...
I guess the whole thing about Griffith's last tears being "crystallized" (volume 13) would make more sense if that was supposed to explain the Crimson Beherit's origins...

Er... I sure hope it's a bit more... convincing and less... simple? than that. ^_^;;
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline erutan

Re:Chapter 224
« Reply #56 on: July 15, 2003, 12:51:44 AM »
It would seem to me that Flora had something to do with skully being the way he is now.  Their talk of the armor, past mistakes, etc.  It could be that the elves made those two suits of armor orginally and Flora acted as a sort of liason between them and mortals.  Is it ever explicitly stated that she is a human, because she seems to have been alive a looong time (though magic could explain that).

If Void "created" the Idea, gave shape to a drifting form or proto-being then at the time the worlds wouldn't have been distinctly separate because perhaps the elves etc could probably fit into the physical world ok.  perhaps the force and power of idea altered the states of being, the realms (must re-read v24 i think) and it was from there that "hell" was created.  So perhaps the frontier was not established because the lands outside were did not yet have form.

Another interesting idea is that Griffith's dream may actually be working for Void.  Perhaps Void wants Griffith the "white hawk" to rule/create a just Midland and right the wrongs he protested and was unjustly (at least in his eyes) tortured for.  This would be vastly amusing as Griffith only respects those who are not bound under another's dream.
I hear your voice way down inside, a whispering sea of towering trees... but no reply...

Offline Bill

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Re:Chapter 224
« Reply #57 on: July 15, 2003, 01:17:53 AM »
Its fishy because the story is said 4 or 5 angels came down to destroy Midland for the wiseman. If the wiseman is Void who is the 4th angel? It could've been Skully himself but then Gaiseric is just a red herring in the hope of discovering Skully's past.

No I think that the wiseman is important but not necessarily Void. Also if the Rebirth of a Godhand can only happen every 1000 years, how do they exactly know that it can only happen every 1000 years? Perhaps thats what happened with the destruction of Midland and Gaiseric's empire.
Fairy tales are more than true -
not because they tell us dragons exist,
but because they tell us dragons can be beaten.

--G.K. Chesterton

Online Walter

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Re:Chapter 224
« Reply #58 on: July 15, 2003, 01:23:43 AM »
Its fishy because the story is said 4 or 5 angels came down to destroy Midland for the wiseman. If the wiseman is Void who is the 4th angel? It could've been Skully himself but then Gaiseric is just a red herring in the hope of discovering Skully's past.

The 4 kings of the world = the 4/5 Angels.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Wereallmad

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Re:Chapter 224
« Reply #59 on: July 15, 2003, 04:18:00 AM »
?_?The leader of the Elves changed a dying Gaiseric into the Skull Knight. I don't think it said anything about a cursed armor, but... well, just look at the Skull Knight. ^^;

Oh, I guess i just inferred the part about the cursed armor, but, well..... like you imply, it makes sense given the new set of circumstances. The condition Guts is in right now is just as that theory said Gaiseric was. Guts can barely even raise his sword against Grunbeld.

My guess is that the armor will allow Guts to survive (maybe even defeat) Grunbeld, but will not save him. Instead he will get even closer to death, maybe even lapse into a coma. In a last ditch attempt to save his life the Sk directs to him to elfhelm, and then everything comes full-circle....... or spiral I should say.

I think we may learn more of Sk's past at elfhelm.

Of course, I don't think one of my speculations has ever been right before, so I probably just jinxed it. The biggest flaw I see with my speculation is Guts losing his body - it's just not plausible for a character like Guts. I Also don't think Guts would wear a helmet again. When he left the Hawks, he left his helmet behind. Maybe I'm the only one who feels this way, but I think it is somewhat signifigant, Guts never wears a helmet again while Griffith's is permanantly affixed to his (first as a prisoner in the tower, and later as Femto).
« Last Edit: July 15, 2003, 04:23:57 AM by Wereallmad »

Offline namayias

Re:Chapter 224
« Reply #60 on: July 15, 2003, 05:53:29 AM »

 I Also don't think Guts would wear a helmet again. When he left the Hawks, he left his helmet behind. Maybe I'm the only one who feels this way, but I think it is somewhat signifigant, Guts never wears a helmet again while Griffith's is permanantly affixed to his (first as a prisoner in the tower, and later as Femto).
that makes alot of sense since Guts seems to be the opposite of Griffith. must keep the antagonist and protagonist(sp?) seperate in certain aspects.

Offline SaiyajinNoOuji

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Re:Chapter 224
« Reply #61 on: July 15, 2003, 05:58:16 AM »
If he chooses not to wear the helmet it may not be because of that but more of well.. He has one eye, if he wears a helmet it get rid of his perripheal (sp?) vision damn near completly... BUT if he does wear it, maybe it could heal it??
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Offline Wereallmad

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Re:Chapter 224
« Reply #62 on: July 15, 2003, 06:07:49 AM »
If he chooses not to wear the helmet it may not be because of that but more of well.. He has one eye, if he wears a helmet it get rid of his perripheal (sp?) vision damn near completly... BUT if he does wear it, maybe it could heal it??

With that helmet, Guts might not need sight. Right now, because of his brand, he's in the interstice, I believe. With that helmet, he might be in the same realm as Skully. What that realm is exactly, I'm not sure, but skully doesn't seem to need eyes. Reminds me of Event Horizon "Where we're going, we won't need eyes to see."

Furthermore, if Guts' swordsmanship in Godo's mine is anything to judge by, then Guts already seems to be capable without actually seeing his opponent.

« Last Edit: July 15, 2003, 06:12:01 AM by Wereallmad »

Offline secilj

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Re:Chapter 224
« Reply #63 on: July 15, 2003, 06:58:13 AM »
Thanks for your kind scan, SaiyajinNoOuji.  :D

Grunbeld, don't be too hard to Guts, he is Lady Slan's puppet, not yours.   ;D

Offline Smith

Re:Chapter 224
« Reply #64 on: July 15, 2003, 07:22:48 AM »
I have no idea how Guts is going to escape Grunbeld, he hasn't even pulled out the blades from the shield yet.

And dont forget the cannon that is many times the firepower of Guts's one.

Btw, talking about the helmet, maybe he will be protected by all kinds of physical attack!  :D

 
It piss me off when I see weaklings, it make me want to crush them

Offline Wereallmad

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Re:Chapter 224
« Reply #65 on: July 15, 2003, 09:18:22 AM »
And dont forget the cannon that is many times the firepower of Guts's one.

Btw, talking about the helmet, maybe he will be protected by all kinds of physical attack!  :D

 

No offense but can you not talk... ever again? I'd appreciate it.

Offline sendo7

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Re:Chapter 224
« Reply #66 on: July 15, 2003, 09:19:29 AM »
Speaking of the armor, a helmet is uselfull in a fight, remember the fight against bazozoo, so if he must fight griffith and his army, it must have one.
The part i'm interest now, is the "good" in griffith army, with they be slash by Guts.. or will it cause problem to guts. I'm speaking of the little girl griffith save and the young men that the army of Griffith take help. Cause the guy seems quite like Judeau for me, and it will be hard for Guts to deal with it. Maybe they will be a good fight with Isidor. But I don't know what Miura-San is planning for this caracter.

Offline Smith

Re:Chapter 224
« Reply #67 on: July 15, 2003, 01:59:04 PM »
Along with a host of other incredibly stupid posts in his time here.

Now think carefully again, before u give any other comment! I may reply some stupid post sometime, but if u have seen LG in the early days or Genn21, then i guess u reflect on what u have said again!

I m not trying to be rude, but i guess whatever post that is stupid would be deleted long ago...

P.S: Phew, never had i been so harsh to any1 be4 in this forum, and Btw, thanks Guil  ;)  
« Last Edit: July 15, 2003, 02:03:32 PM by Smith »
It piss me off when I see weaklings, it make me want to crush them

Offline Smith

Re:Chapter 224
« Reply #68 on: July 15, 2003, 02:20:54 PM »
Now, judging from the present situation i think there is problem somewhere... First how are they going to get that armor out, especially with the apostle just hanging around outside.

Secondly, the armor covered a person from head to toes, so Guts had to stripped nearly naked to get that armor on, I doubt it will be logical to change into that armor when Guts is still in a midst of battling Grunbeld  :(
« Last Edit: July 15, 2003, 06:17:27 PM by Griffith »
It piss me off when I see weaklings, it make me want to crush them

Offline Swordsman in Sable

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Re:Chapter 224
« Reply #69 on: July 15, 2003, 02:27:05 PM »
lol, you guys are hilarious ^^

Anyway, I personally can't really predict too much here...too many different things can happen from all the variables in the mix. We've got Zodd vs Skully, Guts' group bringing the armor/ vs any more apostles they encounter, Casca possibly wandering off and/or Farnese getting impatient or discovered, and then Guts vs Grunbeld and Guts' wound and the beast and the Beherit. The results of each event will almost assuredly have an impact on every other event. It's a really intense situation to me  ;D

Can't wait another two weeks!
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Offline Dark Wanderer

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Re:Chapter 224
« Reply #70 on: July 15, 2003, 02:29:51 PM »
Secondly, the armor covered a person from head to toes, so Guts had to stripped nearly naked to get that armor on, I doubt it will be logical to change into that armor when Guts is still in a midst of battling Grunbeld  :(

Well, who knows? Maybe Shiruke will come up with a way to keep Grunbeld busy while Guts changes into the armor and Puck/Ibarera. heals his wounds...

Good point, this about the helmet. He hasn't worn one for a very, very long time now, has he? then,a gian, if the skull helmet is a part of the armor, he may have no choice but using it. But who knows...?
Peace is a lie, there is only passion
Through passion, I gain strength
Through strength I gain power
Through power, I gain victory
Through victory, my chains are broken
The Force shall free me.

Offline Wereallmad

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Re:Chapter 224
« Reply #71 on: July 15, 2003, 03:21:02 PM »
wow so much politeness from someone who keeps a flame account and a geek style argueing account up at the same time.
adorable

lets concatenate the hair on my ass to the hair in your nose k?

I have no idea what that means, so I'm guessing it wasn't directed at me......

Now think carefully again, before u give any other comment! I may reply some stupid post sometime, but if u have seen LG in the early days or Genn21, then i guess u reflect on what u have said again!

I m not trying to be rude, but i guess whatever post that is stupid would be deleted long ago...

P.S: Phew, never had i been so harsh to any1 be4 in this forum, and Btw, thanks Guil  ;)  

The wonderful quality of that post ony serves to reinforce my previous statement as far as I'm concerned, so I'm going to have to stick with 'you're an idiot'.

That and I don't think I recall either of them being quite as moronic (I don't remember LG at all, I'm not sure who that is).

The thing is there are so many nerds being full of themselves here that sometimes it bores me.

You mean like annoying 'pacifist' types who only serve exacerbate potential conflicts by insisting that one of the parties involved ceases his criticism of others while simultaneously criticizing the very same person. Yeah, they bore me too.

Seriously, eat a dick.

Offline Wereallmad

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Re:Chapter 224
« Reply #72 on: July 15, 2003, 04:53:30 PM »
Hey,  first : it wasnt directed to your high self , you know ?

Who else then?

second : doing long sentences wont make you more intelligent

I'm sorry that a couple lines of text (the longest sentence I've posted is 2/3 lines at most) is too much for you to read. I'll try and dumb it down. OMG im lik doin it Agan.

third : i'm not a pacifist, but i wont talk about that

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you just did.

and in the end, you make no sense by bullshitting ... i will not bitch you but just say you're plain worthless ... like me ! But i'm not closeminded and bitter...

I'm not 100% sure what bullshitting is meant to mean in this context, I'm not certain you do either, but I'm pretty sure this sounds like bitching to me.

I'm also not sure how argueing with you automatically makes me closeminded (or bitter for that matter, though I'll give you that much, I AM a bitter person). I just love how people seem to think that they're enlightened, or otherwise so important that anyone who doesn't share their opinion is closeminded.

wouldnt try to piss you off wereallmad. like that "old fart" rudeness towards newbies  ;D

Aint got nothing to do with how long someone's been here on a board like this. On social boards there's a reason for people to be rude to newbies. Same reason cliques and other social groups haze newcomers.

This, however, is a discussion forum and though I can't speak for any of the administrative staff, I figure anyone who makes a valid contribution has a right to post.

However even within the realm of discussion and speculation, there are limits. I think the whole predator armor crossed way the fuck over that speculation line.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2003, 04:58:47 PM by Wereallmad »

Offline Bill

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Re:Chapter 224
« Reply #73 on: July 15, 2003, 04:54:32 PM »
............

Back on the topic, the believe that in the next chapter not much will happen. Grunbeld will most likely resume turning Guts into paste, and Schierke will attempt to understand why Flora means to give Guts the armor and most likely explain why it is "cursed".

Zodd and Skully will probably argue some more and at the very end of the chapter, Guts will think up some revolutionary plan to take down Grunbeld while Skully and Zodd attack each other, leaving us the anxious readers at another cliffhanger!  :D
« Last Edit: July 15, 2003, 05:16:06 PM by Bill »
Fairy tales are more than true -
not because they tell us dragons exist,
but because they tell us dragons can be beaten.

--G.K. Chesterton

Offline Griffith

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Re:Chapter 224
« Reply #74 on: July 15, 2003, 06:30:32 PM »
To whom it may concern, a short recap of the shittiness can still be seen in the quotes of Wereallmad's posts. Also, see directly below:

Imo, there is no reason to bitch.

Then shut the fuck up, Guil New Stupid Name Every Week. Any more posts relating to the defense of Smith or phony pacifist ideals in this thread will be deleted, so all you heroes can take a rest. And just so you know where I stand; Wereallmad IS an “old-skooler”, and one of him is worth about a hundred of you.

Back on Topic: ;)

Nice observation about the helmet, Wereallmad. I’m not sure that Guts will want to adopt it either, but it wouldn’t surprise me either way.

-Griffith
« Last Edit: July 15, 2003, 06:37:13 PM by Griffith »