shadow world

Status
Not open for further replies.

Baldogh

i have nothing to say
hi guys
i got some questions about volume 24
espacially about the shadow world.

1.if you believe in ghosts it is like if you could see
and touch them,they fell like a real body.but if you not believe they fell like snot if you get in touch with them and you can´t see them.what about the deaths that hunt guts and casca for their flesh(in volume 13 last pages you see them the first time)?
can you see them if you believe in ghosts?

2.and it was said that they would feel like a real body but as guts was slashing one of those ghosts in volume 13 he said that it would be like he slashes into water.
and in volume 24 at the and one of the village inhabitans hits a troll and the troll was bleeding.so
why the deaths aren´t bleeding buthe troll do?they both gain hold of an ethereal body.


would be nice if somebody would help me
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Baldogh said:
1.if you believe in ghosts it is like if you could see
and touch them,they fell like a real body.but if you not believe they fell like snot if you get in touch with them and you can´t see them.what about the deaths that hunt guts and casca for their flesh(in volume 13 last pages you see them the first time)?
can you see them if you believe in ghosts?
Good questions. These issues haven't been approached in a while now.

Volume 17 contains most of the examples of the astral phenomena that you're asking about. Read through that if you're still confused after reading the following information.

Your phrasing "if you believe in ghosts" is WAY too simple. Puck and Evarella's little dialogue in volume 24 exemplifies why it's not as simple as "Cogito Ergo Sum" (I think therefore I am). But since it seems you're asking only about GHOSTS and not ALL astral beings, the answer to your final question is simply: yes.

However, ghosts won't bother normal humans. At least, not normally. Guts and Casca are highlighted on the Astral map so all ghosts are drawn to them. Humans are a dime a dozen, so to speak, but humans surrounding Guts fall prey to the same Astral laws as Guts, as proven in volume 17 by Farnese.

2.
and in volume 24 at the and one of the village inhabitans hits a troll and the troll was bleeding.so
why the deaths aren´t bleeding buthe troll do?they both gain hold of an ethereal body.

The short answer: Ghosts ("deaths") aren't in the same world as Trolls.

The long answer: Thanks to Griffith fucking up the balance between worlds, the old rules that seperated them are starting to become void. Now, a normal human can see a monster such as a Troll. Normally, they would only exist in a dream state such as the Qliphoth ('shadow world' region of the Insterstice/Hazama). hey were originally strictly astral beings, but have been brought into the real world, and given the properties of living tissue (rather, the limitations of the Physical World). Now, Trolls bleed, and smell, according to Isidro.
 

Baldogh

i have nothing to say
Walter said:
Your phrasing "if you believe in ghosts" is WAY too simple. Puck and Evarella's little dialogue in volume 24 exemplifies why it's not as simple as "Cogito Ergo Sum" (I think therefore I am). But since it seems you're asking only about GHOSTS and not ALL astral beings, the answer to your final question is simply: yes.
ok if u believe in ghosts is too simple,but it is basis to see one.the matter is as follows:if u don´t believe in the teachings of the vatikan and u believe in the fary tails
you are able to feel intensivly such an astral body for example of an elve.then it is as if u could see and touch the astral body and the astral body fells like and real flesh body.
and in generally
i meant all astral beings with that.
i think that ghosts are astral beings.both astral beings and ghosts gain hold an astral body.so for both are the same rules.





Walter said:
However, ghosts won't bother normal humans. At least, not normally. Guts and Casca are highlighted on the Astral map so all ghosts are drawn to them. Humans are a dime a dozen, so to speak, but humans surrounding Guts fall prey to the same Astral laws as Guts, as proven in volume 17 by Farnese.

could(!) be ,because farnese didn´t noticed the ghosts first.just then when one ghosts has touched her face.and that is going to the theory in volume 24 that if you feel intenstivily an astral being then it is as if you could see and touch it(and i think that that astral body which toched farneze has felt like an flesh body otherwise she couldn´t saw it).



Walter said:
The short answer: Ghosts ("deaths") aren't in the same world as Trolls.

The long answer: Thanks to Griffith fucking up the balance between worlds, the old rules that seperated them are starting to become void. Now, a normal human can see a monster such as a Troll. Normally, they would only exist in a dream state such as the Qliphoth ('shadow world' region of the Insterstice/Hazama). hey were originally strictly astral beings, but have been brought into the real world, and given the properties of living tissue (rather, the limitations of the Physical World). Now, Trolls bleed, and smell, according to Isidro.

ghosts are in the same world as trolls.
in the stream were elves and trolls are also the undeaths are wandering around.
it is said that if the undeaths aren´t able anymore to keep their astral body or if they notice that their are death the get off this stream.
a troll has an astral body too.just like the undeath.


i got a theory
trolls and undeaths are in the same stream and both gain hold of an astral body but they are two different types of "monsters" the trolls are damage monsters which can beat you and the undeaths are monsters which can morph into your body thats why the trolls are bleeding and the undeaths not.
what do you think about that?




would be happy for answer
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Baldogh said:
could(!) be ,because farnese didn´t noticed the ghosts first.just then when one ghosts has touched her face.and that is going to the theory in volume 24 that if you feel intenstivily an astral being then it is as if you could see and touch it(and i think that that astral body which toched farneze has felt like an flesh body otherwise she couldn´t saw it).ghosts are in the same world as trolls.
in the stream were elves and trolls are also the undeaths are wandering around.

Ghosts are strictly Insterstice, on the fringe between the Interstice and Physical world, as close as they can get to "reality". Trolls are of a sub-section of the interstice, the Qliphoth. More directly, ghosts will wander around locations that they are attached to, looking for flesh. Trolls and other low-level ego beings will gather in the Qliphoth.

it is said that if the undeaths aren´t able anymore to keep their astral body or if they notice that their are death the get off this stream.
a troll has an astral body too.just like the undeath.

But Trolls, like I said, were brought over to the Physical World.

i got a theory
trolls and undeaths are in the same stream and both gain hold of an astral body but they are two different types of "monsters" the trolls are damage monsters which can beat you and the undeaths are monsters which can morph into your body thats why the trolls are bleeding and the undeaths not.
what do you think about that?

I've answered this "Trolls are bleeding?" question twice now.
 

Baldogh

i have nothing to say
Walter said:
.But Trolls, like I said, were brought over to the Physical World.

in which volume is told that trolls have been brought over to the physical world ???or from where do you know that(i wonder where this was told)? ???
and from where do you got the expression Qliphoth?
 

Lliugusamui

around the corner
Baldogh said:
in which volume is told that or from where do you know that(i wonder where this was told)?and from where do you got the expresion Qliphoth?
Read the manga again *advises vol20+*
Guil
 

Baldogh

i have nothing to say
Guil Malalanus said:
Read the manga again *advises vol20+*
Guil
i haven´t found it and i really searched for it.

so
in which volume is told that trolls have been brought over to the physical world ??? or from where do you know that ???(i wonder where this was told)?

and from where do you got the expresion Qliphoth? ???


if you are right that trolls have been brought over,then it is an exceptional case that their are bleeding right?



and i got a new theory about the "astral-seeing"
the matter with the astral-seeing is as follows:
if you belive in astral beings(for example in fairy tails)you can feel them.if you intensivly feel an astral body,it feels like a flesh body,then it is as if you could see and touch it.


IN FAKT:
IF you believe in astral-beeing you can seethem
(volume 1 puck can be seen by the koka gang.guts or
casca have not to be present)
IF you don´t belive in astral beings,but in the
teachings of the vatikan,you can´t see them.
Then you just can see them if guts or casca
(then the astral rules for them go for you too) are in
your nearness and you intensivly feel the astral body
(for example if the astral body touches you).

SO IF you would believe in every astral being no matter what it look like,you could see it.

i think most of the people,who believe in astral beings just believe in the mythical creatures from fairy tails like trolls or elves,so they just can see these creatures.but if a branded one is in their nearness,they can see the other astral beings(undeaths),that hunt the branded ones without being touched by them too,because they don´t live in a solid world(they don´t believe in teachings of the vatikan).That is why in volume one,as guts as been given a lift by some travellers the young girl could see the inkibus without being touched by it

sorry for the many if-clauses.
please tell me what you´re thinking about this theory.
and with astral being i mean all creatures that live in the shadow world and have an astral body (like elves,inkibuses,undeaths and trolls[i know what you said about trolls that they have been brought over to physical world,but please excuse me that i don´t believe it since i read it.!please don´t resent! :-\]
 

Lliugusamui

around the corner
Griffith reapparence is for something about trolls being seeable and 'layers'... I let you finish the sentence, man ! ^^
Guil :p
 

kimchan

"Should I be overcome by the vapors?
You've been given the answer to your questions at least two or three times over.

Griffith's reapperance is causing the different layers of the world to merge. Things like trolls, which normally stay in the Qliphoth (sort of the dark part of the realm of the dead) are now appearing in the physical world. They've been rendered into physical beings, which allows them to bleed (don't know why you're so stuck on that anyway).
 

Baldogh

i have nothing to say
Guil Malalanus said:
Griffith reapparence is for something about trolls being seeable and 'layers'... I let you finish the sentence, man ! ^^
Guil :p
aha so is it,but it is never told that it is so.it is just a
possibility. think the only one,but it is never said.

kimchan said:
You've been given the answer to your questions at least two or three times over.
i said something to these answers

kimchan said:
Griffith's reapperance is causing the different layers of the world to merge. Things like trolls, which normally stay in the Qliphoth (sort of the dark part of the realm of the dead) are now appearing in the physical world. They've been rendered into physical beings, which allows them to bleed (don't know why you're so stuck on that anyway).

i´m stucked on this,other ones on something else.
ok that is why they are bleeding but if griffith would not have been reappered,then it should be like i said in my last posted theory shouldn´t it?please tell me your opinion
 

kimchan

"Should I be overcome by the vapors?
Baldogh said:
aha so is it,but it is never told that it is so.it is just a
possibility. think the only one,but it is never said.i said something to these answersi´m stucked on this,other ones on something else.
ok that is why they are bleeding but if griffith would not have been reappered,then it should be like i said in my last posted theory shouldn´t it?please tell me your opinion

So is this the theory we're talking about here?

"and i got a new theory about the "astral-seeing"
the matter with the astral-seeing is as follows:
if you belive in astral beings(for example in fairy tails)you can feel them.if you intensivly feel an astral body,it feels like a flesh body,then it is as if you could see and touch it.


IN FAKT:
IF you believe in astral-beeing you can seethem
(volume 1 puck can be seen by the koka gang.guts or
casca have not to be present)
IF you don´t belive in astral beings,but in the
teachings of the vatikan,you can´t see them.
Then you just can see them if guts or casca
(then the astral rules for them go for you too) are in
your nearness and you intensivly feel the astral body
(for example if the astral body touches you).

SO IF you would believe in every astral being no matter what it look like,you could see it."



If so, this is something that's been said numerous times in the manga so far. It's pretty common knowledge that if people believe in astral beings, they can see them and if they don't believe in them, they can't see them.

As for the rest, Griffith's rebirth has been mentioned as a sort of "turning point" when all of these changes in the layers of the world began.

I think maybe you need to read the manga volumes that occur after Griffith's rebirth again, they pretty much explain it all there.
 

Baldogh

i have nothing to say
kimchan said:
If so, this is something that's been said numerous times in the manga so far. It's pretty common knowledge that if people believe in astral beings, they can see them and if they don't believe in them, they can't see them.

As for the rest, Griffith's rebirth has been mentioned as a sort of "turning point" when all of these changes in the layers of the world began.

I think maybe you need to read the manga volumes that occur after Griffith's rebirth again, they pretty much explain it all there.

i read the volumes again.and they pretty explain nothing.theres isn´t said anytime something about that trolls have been brought over to the phisical world.
sure the rebirth of griffith is a turning point,but it is never said that he has brought the trolls over.and what do you mean with the expression its pretty common knowledge...?
do you think my theory is good and acceptable or it is shit.but if you think it is junk tell me why(at the best with some events that happend in the book).
OR TELL ME your theory about the stral-seeing.
i´m intressted to here your theory or thoughts to that.
 

kimchan

"Should I be overcome by the vapors?
Baldogh said:
i read the volumes again.and they pretty explain nothing.theres isn´t said anytime something about that trolls have been brought over to the phisical world. sure the rebirth of griffith is a turning point,but it is never said that he has brought the trolls over.

The trolls' appearance in the physical world is a side effect of Griffith's rebirth. Griffith is changing the world, that was the whole point of his rebirth (that's what the Beherit apostle wished for in Volume 20 I believe). This might explain a little:

Volume 25; Chapter 215; Pages 17-19

Guts: Qliphoth…

Schierke: The astral world is made up of several layers, each having its own atmosphere.

Dead bodies are likely to flock together with those having the same od.

The warm-hearted bodies are with the warm-hearted…

This is the sheer opposite of that.

The dark world, where the tainted flock together, is Qliphoth.

Pg. 18

Schierke: Normally, this would never happen.

The astral and the real world…blended so completely like this…


Trolls, ogres, elves and kelpies…

The creatures in the spiritual world are taking form as if they had actually had a physical body…


They are originally in the world within our mind…

They are the ones who reside in our dreams at night or our imagination.

If they exist in the real world…

Isidro:
Then what will happen? (I can make money from their circus.)

Schierke: I don't know but…

Pg. 19

Schierke:The world will completely change. Or it has already begun…

With the appearance of someone…


End Chapter 215

(Here's a hint: That "someone" is Griffith.)


and what do you mean with the expression its pretty common knowledge...?

I mean that it's been said time and time again that astral beings can be seen by those who believe in them and can't be seen by those who don't. Example:

Volume 17; Chapter 123; Pages 27-28

Guts: She can't see you?

Why not?

Puck: Mm…I don’t know…

For example, when normal people look at something, when they're done, it's left behind in their memories.

But if it isn't, then they'd probably only remember the good things, right?

It happens sometimes. Even though there's an elf right in front of 'em, they aren't paying attention, and don't notice it.
And so they can't remember it.

Pg. 28

Guts: Why?

Puck: I don't really understand it very well, but…
For some reason a lot of priests and people from rural churches can’t. I can walk right into a big cathedral without anyone ever seeing me.

Farneze: Why's he mumbling to himself?

Puck:Last time I was in a big town, this old lady who told fortunes with some travelling players told me this; uh…what was it…

In a harsh world like this, there are people who can't see elves. Why is that?

Guts: A harsh world… Hmm…

Farneze couldn't see Puck because she was still caught up in the Vatican's beliefs and didn't believe in them herself. But once she gave up her beliefs, she could see Puck.


do you think my theory is good and acceptable or it is shit.but if you think it is junk tell me why(at the best with some events that happend in the book).
OR TELL ME your theory about the stral-seeing.
i´m intressted to here your theory or thoughts to that.

I don't necessarily think your theory is shit, but it seems more like you're stating the obvious at some points and completely ignoring things that are there at others. I've tried to explain this to you a whole bunch of times (as well as others) and I've dug up every example I can get without looking through my translations all day. I seriously doubt I can get through to you because you are too stubborn to listen to anything people tell you. This is the last time I'm going to reply.

**sorry for the long post**
 

Baldogh

i have nothing to say
kimchan said:
I mean that it's been said time and time again that astral beings can be seen by those who believe in them and can't be seen by those who don't.
if you include deaths to astral beeings i understand it.



I don't necessarily think your theory is shit, but it seems more like you're stating the obvious at some points and completely ignoring things that are there at others. I've tried to explain this to you a whole bunch of times (as well as others) and I've dug up every example I can get without looking through my translations all day. I seriously doubt I can get through to you because you are too stubborn to listen to anything people tell you. This is the last time I'm going to reply.

**sorry for the long post**



thanks for your answer it helped a lot(espacially a thank that you quotated some dialogues from the manga!!)i think the point is that i haven´t read volume 25 because it isn´t published in my country.and i have to apologize for my stubborness,i think its my character and english isn´t my mother language,so maybe i haven´t understand sometimes something.


and i have one thing to add about the seeing thing:isn´t it curious that skullknight told guts in volume 13(last pages)
that he is damned to live in a world that a flesh body can´t see even though you can see it if you beleive in?



i have now made me thoughts about another thing
about the structure of the world of berserk it should be as follows:

There's a comparatively shallow stream of the shadow world known as the "rift."
Many ethereal life forms exist there, in forms that match our legends.
The landscape is carved from the ethereal bodies of many things that exist in our world, so it closely resembles the appearance of reality.
So there are many spirits wandering there, their own death unnoticed...
Fixated on memories of this world.
The "rift" is straddled by both the shadow world and reality.
the brands allow to sense the shadow world; because of them you dwell in the "reality" section of the rift.
in the reality : u believe in astrals you can see ´em
in the shadow world : u believe in astral u just can preceive it as a sort of mirage


my questions:
1.can a normal one(not a branded one or a magican)enter the reality section of the rift?

2.who the hell dwell in the reality section of rift(with the exception of branded ones an magicans).?
in the shadow world section of the rift we know live trolls elves and other creatures that match our legends.

3.isidiro says in volume 24 that them ghosts are feeling like snot,that must mean that he felt the astralbody but couldn´t see it,because if u believe in astralbodies you can see ´em and they feel like a flesh body and if not(or not powerfully enough) like snot and you can´t see ´em.(to this question a simply yes or no would be allright.i know that you won´t reply anymore what you said but i just want to know if i understood it right or wrong.)



and what do you think about walter´s theory that everyone in guts or casca´s nearness fall prey to their astral rules?

would be happy if you(kimchan) could me help again
 

kimchan

"Should I be overcome by the vapors?
Baldogh said:
and i have one thing to add about the seeing thing:isn´t it curious that skullknight told guts in volume 13(last pages)
that he is damned to live in a world that a flesh body can´t see even though you can see it if you beleive in?

People who are branded sort of live in two worlds. The real, physical world and what most of us call the "Interstice," I think it's the place where the realm of the dead and real world overlap (not sure). Either way, Guts and Casca stand between worlds. That's why they attract spirits, because they are living things in a place inhabited by the dead. As Skull Knight put it, they are like a "torch in the dark" to the spirits there. Maybe like moths to a flame. ^^;

i have now made me thoughts about another thing
about the structure of the world of berserk it should be as follows:

There's a comparatively shallow stream of the shadow world known as the "rift."
Many ethereal life forms exist there, in forms that match our legends.
The landscape is carved from the ethereal bodies of many things that exist in our world, so it closely resembles the appearance of reality.
So there are many spirits wandering there, their own death unnoticed...
Fixated on memories of this world.
The "rift" is straddled by both the shadow world and reality.
the brands allow to sense the shadow world; because of them you dwell in the "reality" section of the rift.
in the reality : u believe in astrals you can see ´em
in the shadow world : u believe in astral u just can preceive it as a sort of mirage

Griffith (board member) made a great thread explaining the structure of the worlds in Berserk. Unfortunately, I couldn't find it on SK.net anymore and you have to be a member at the Hawks. I found it and posted it here: http://www.geocities.com/deathscythe021/universe.html

All the credit goes to Griffith though!

my questions:
1.can a normal one(not a branded one or a magican)enter the reality section of the rift?

2.who the hell dwell in the reality section of rift(with the exception of branded ones an magicans).?
in the shadow world section of the rift we know live trolls elves and other creatures that match our legends.

I really don't know the answer for these two. ^^;

3.isidiro says in volume 24 that them ghosts are feeling like snot,that must mean that he felt the astralbody but couldn´t see it,because if u believe in astralbodies you can see ´em and they feel like a flesh body and if not(or not powerfully enough) like snot and you can´t see ´em.(to this question a simply yes or no would be allright.i know that you won´t reply anymore what you said but i just want to know if i understood it right or wrong.)

I don't know if anyone feels astral beings as though they were made of flesh. If a person comes in contact with an astral being with their ethereal body (spirit I guess), that's where the "snot" feeling comes in. The person feels them as if they were real. I don't know too much about this part really.

Vol. 24; Chapter 201; Pg. 101

Isidro: Hey, what’s that “realm of the dead?”

Flora: Simply said, it’s “the next world.”

Due to the curse of the brand, you are able to feel it strongly.

The presence of ethereal beings that normally can’t be seen by the naked eye.

Isidro: Ethereal bodies? You mean ghosts?

Schierke: It’s called “three bodies, one substance.”

Everything in this world overlaps with at least two other worlds.

One is the spirit, commonly called the realm of the dead… The astral world.

Another is the soul; the origin of existence, the Idea world.

Isidro: It’s difficult, in short, it’s a ghost, right? Not alive right? Sticky like snivel? It’s disgusting.

Schierke: Vulgar… That’s because you come into contact with astral beings with your ethereal body.

A human body that feels ethereal beings strongly will think of them as if it were a real substance.

It becomes able to see and touch them.


Ordinary people aren’t able to do that!


and what do you think about walter´s theory that everyone in guts or casca´s nearness fall prey to their astral rules?

would be happy if you(kimchan) could me help again

People that are close to Guts and Casca DO fall prey to their "rules." They also get attacked by the spirits and demons that come after Guts and Casca. Characters in Guts' group mention being attacked by spirits:

Vol 24; Chapter 199; Page 54

Serpico: First a troll. Then a witch?

Isidro: What? You don’t believe me?

Puck: Back to normal…

Serpico: No, it’s not that. I was just getting terribly tired of all the demons and monsters.

Compared to those, this has a kind of fairytale atmosphere.

and...

Vol. 24; Chapter 201; Pg. 96

Guts: (A ward…

From that.)


Isidro: I see.

So that’s the story behind the brand. No wonder they’re swarming to us every night.

Serpico and Isidro both have been subject to the effects of Guts' and Casca's brands.
 

Baldogh

i have nothing to say
kimchan said:
People who are branded sort of live in two worlds. The real, physical world and what most of us call the "Interstice," I think it's the place where the realm of the dead and real world overlap (not sure). Either way, Guts and Casca stand between worlds. That's why they attract spirits, because they are living things in a place inhabited by the dead. As Skull Knight put it, they are like a "torch in the dark" to the spirits there. Maybe like moths to a flame. ^^;
then the attracting of undeaths would be the only diffrence between a branded one and one who believe in astral beeings(in this case undeaths).the branded one can see them and attracts them,and the one that just believe in astral beings(undeaths) just could see them.
am i right?

I don't know if anyone feels astral beings as though they were made of flesh. If a person comes in contact with an astral being with their ethereal body (spirit I guess), that's where the "snot" feeling comes in. The person feels them as if they were real. I don't know too much about this part really.

...
Isidro: It’s difficult, in short, it’s a ghost, right? Not alive right? Sticky like snivel? It’s disgusting.

Schierke: Vulgar… That’s because you come into contact with astral beings with your ethereal body.

A human body that feels ethereal beings strongly will think of them as if it were a real substance. [boldogh´s comment:"so no longer like snivel,but like a real substance"]

It becomes able to see and touch them.


[boldogh´s comment:"in the manga this four sentences that you quotated appear in two panels.if u got the manga in your hand u can see that the first two sentence are in the right panel and the two other together in the left panel.i think that the last sentence refers to the other sentence that is in the (LEFT)panel too and not to the sentence that is in the other/right panel.so i think that u only can see and touch the astral body if it fells like a real substance.so just if u feel it strongly"]

i understood it like this:
IF you feel the astral body strongly enough it feels to
you like a real body(real substance,flesh body),then
you can see and touch it.(it becomes able to see and
touch them)
IF you feel the astral body not strongly enough it feels
to you like snot and it doesn´t become able to see and
touch them.

i mean you touch everything with your ethereal body.the ethereal body is a copy of your body.that´s why in volume 24 isidro´s and serpico´s wounds could heal(there flesh body got the status of the ethereal body).and my question was virtually that isidro couldn´t see the "ghost"(volume 24,when all of the group were sitting at the table in floras house)
because it felt like snivel.like i said yes or no would be allright to this question.

Ordinary people aren’t able to do that!
which people do you mean with ordinary?those who believe in the teachings of the vatikan?

thanks a lot for the link
 

kimchan

"Should I be overcome by the vapors?
Baldogh said:
then the attracting of undeaths would be the only diffrence between a branded one and one who believe in astral beeings(in this case undeaths).the branded one can see them and attracts them,and the one that just believe in astral beings(undeaths) just could see them.

I think spirits are different than elves, trolls, and the like. I remember pretty clearly that Farneze could see the spirits even when she couldn't see Puck. So it's possible that you can see spirits whether you believe in them or not.

am i right?i understood it like this:
IF you feel the astral body strongly enough it feels to
you like a real body(real substance,flesh body),then
you can see and touch it.(it becomes able to see and
touch them)
IF you feel the astral body not strongly enough it feels
to you like snot and it doesn´t become able to see and
touch them.

Honestly, I haven't quite understood that part either, so I don't really know about that.

i mean you touch everything with your ethereal body.the ethereal body is a copy of your body.that´s why in volume 24 isidro´s and serpico´s wounds could heal(there flesh body got the status of the ethereal body).and my question was virtually that isidro couldn´t see the "ghost"(volume 24,when all of the group were sitting at the table in floras house)because it felt like snivel.like i said yes or no would be allright to this question.

Isidro must be able to see them, like above, he's mentioned the spirits a few times.

which people do you mean with ordinary?those who believe in the teachings of the vatikan?

thanks a lot for the link

That was something that Schierke said ("ordinary people can't do that.") I'm guessing by ordinary, she means people who have no supernatural power. No magic, no psychic ability, no brand. Probably nothing to do with the Vatican's teachings.
 

Baldogh

i have nothing to say
kimchan said:
I think spirits are different than elves, trolls, and the like. I remember pretty clearly that Farneze could see the spirits even when she couldn't see Puck. So it's possible that you can see spirits whether you believe in them or not.
i understood it like this:
undeaths are in the same stream.in the stream of the elves and trolls.in my version of berserk is standing that
if the undeaths weren´t able anymore to keep their shadowbody the get off this stream.and because of the word shadow body i think undeaths are stral beings too.

Isidro must be able to see them, like above, he's mentioned the spirits a few times.
i think he mentioned them because of the albion events.i think there was the only time he had contact with astral beings.i explained you my opinion with the panel-thing.
i think he could not be able to see it.


That was something that Schierke said ("ordinary people can't do that.") I'm guessing by ordinary, she means people who have no supernatural power. No magic, no psychic ability, no brand. Probably nothing to do with the Vatican's teachings.
where does she say this?do you mean
...
schierke: ordinary people can´t tell the diffrence
...
?
 

kimchan

"Should I be overcome by the vapors?
Baldogh said:
i understood it like this:
undeaths are in the same stream.in the stream of the elves and trolls.in my version of berserk is standing that
if the undeaths weren´t able anymore to keep their shadowbody the get off this stream.and because of the word shadow body i think undeaths are stral beings too.

Those spirits are somewhere in between the real world and the astral world. Besides, there doesn't have to be a hard and fast rule about this, you know.

i think he mentioned them because of the albion events.i think there was the only time he had contact with astral beings.i explained you my opinion with the panel-thing.
i think he could not be able to see it.

When Isidro mentioned the spirits, he said they were attacking every night, which they do attack Guts and the people near him ever night. That what happens when you're around a branded person.

where does she say this?do you mean

She says it in the quote I just posted:

Vol. 24; Chapter 201; Pg. 101

Isidro: Hey, what’s that “realm of the dead?”

Flora: Simply said, it’s “the next world.”

Due to the curse of the brand, you are able to feel it strongly.

The presence of ethereal beings that normally can’t be seen by the naked eye.

Isidro: Ethereal bodies? You mean ghosts?

Schierke: It’s called “three bodies, one substance.”

Everything in this world overlaps with at least two other worlds.

One is the spirit, commonly called the realm of the dead… The astral world.

Another is the soul; the origin of existence, the Idea world.

Isidro: It’s difficult, in short, it’s a ghost, right? Not alive right? Sticky like snivel? It’s disgusting.

Schierke: Vulgar… That’s because you come into contact with astral beings with your ethereal body.

A human body that feels ethereal beings strongly will think of them as if it were a real substance.

It becomes able to see and touch them.

Ordinary people aren’t able to do that!


Anyway, Baldogh, could you please just let this go, we're basically just going in circles here.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
lock.gif

This topic is hereby locked.

Baldogh has proven that he can't listen to the answers being shoved down his esophagus.

Thank you Kimchan for your continually appreciated, but ultimately futile help with this poor sap.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom