Skully's Armor Origins/ Guts' New Armor Parallels

Here's something I was thinking about. Don't everyone start bashing me at once as I just FINALLY caught up with chapter 226.

Guts' new armor has the helmet of the Skull. We know that Flora put together the armor and that the armor itself was forged by dwarves. |

Do you think then that King Gaiseric's armor he wore in battle ( with the skull helmet) and eventually the armor that he wears as the Skullknight, was also forged by some magical element? It surely is not just coincidence that both SK and Guts bear the signature skull helmet.

LG

If we say it is a fact that Guts' Armor is like Skullys was once, then this armor really is Apostle-like, if you think about it. It unleashes the inner Beast and gives you another Form that before was "hidden" in yourself..like the Beast (Wolf?) in Guts was, and now the Armor has the Face of a Wolf..and Skullys Armor know has the skullface, so maybe this was Gaiserics inner..Demon..whatever..you know

Lady Griffith said:

eventually the armor that he wears as the Skullknight

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I wondered if that was a armor or the bone of skullknight itself...

Once again, Puck mention him related as one of the elves, izzit because of the armor?

Well, from the elf aura thing, I got to thinking sk may be a magic user. And if so, some form of bulky elf. Flora I believe was the one who said "High level magic users can even fly" or something along them lines, which leads me to believe sk knows some magic. I mean... unless that horse is a magical horse or something then it would have to be flying by magic to some degree.

I got a theory of my own about the armors of Guts and the Skull Knight. Not entirely different to any other, but I think I've got something slightly new here.

I'm sure we're all familiar with the Beast, the personification/symbol/incarnation of Guts' hatred, lust for battle and ultimately his strenght that has kept him alive for so long.

Zodd said something like "You wish him to take the path you yourself took so long ago?" to Skull Knight upon seeing the strenght of the new armor. I consider it quite likely that an apostole like Zodd is able to sense something we can't see from the scans yet, much like the Puck sensed something elvish about Skull Knight.

The helmet of the new armor changed into the head of the beast, after which Guts moved like never before. He's always been fast, some would even say superhumanly fast, but he never fought like Yoda while wearing full-plate before! Also, the palm of the armor opened and the arm-cannon fired without Guts pulling the handle/whatever he did to activate it before. It seems to me like his body and armor are working as one.

Ah, I should be getting to my point now.

What if the equilant of the Beast to Gaiseric, or whoever became the Skull Knight, is a skeleton?

Doesn't sound as impressive as the badass dog that Guts has, but Gaiseric's helmet was in the shape of a skull. Maybe the type of armor Guts now wears and Skull Knight has worn for... quite a while now turns the wearer into... whatever the Beast and the skeleton (assuming I'm right here) could be described as. This would mean that Guts would transform more and more, until he was in a condition much like Skull Knight, even though looking quite different (I think he'd still be bipedal, even if a bit bestial). It would probably heal him too.

After the fight with Grundbeld/Groenveld/Gurumberudo is over, I anticipate Skull Knight to say something like "You have a choice, strugler. You can retain you armor and become as I, or have us remove it, remain human and hope your wounds can be healed and your strenght as a man is enough for the battles ahead."

Maybe I hit the jackpot like Walter did with his photoshopped picture of the armor with the Beast's head, or I'll be horribly wrong. I suppose we'll find out soon enough. :)

Omg, I've achieved the dream of all forum inhabitants! A somewhat intelligent rectangular post without any copy/pasting! ;D

well, Miura said that he wants Guts to remain human, i believe. So, I don't think anything too drastic like what happened to Skully will happen to Guts.

ranemaka13 said:

Miura said that he wants Guts to remain human, i believe. So, I don't think anything too drastic like what happened to Skully will happen to Guts.

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Even with Skully, Flora questioned "I'd like to believe that you still have some of your humanity". So Guts could still be a little human, even after the transformation Skully went through. Personally though, I think this massive metamorphosis is a temporary character explosion. He'll be good ol' Guts with a few extra tricks in a few chapters.

As for the origin of the armor? I like where Ozmo is headed with his train of thought, but I don't think we should stay as dogmatic as "Skully's form is Gaiseric's Beast!" What we're dealing with right now could be something drastically different than what happened 1000 years ago. Notice that Zodd makes this comment BEFORE the transformation even takes place. Whether or not he "saw it coming" so to speak, is hubris.

And does Skully seem "beast-like" to you? He's a pretty calm motherfucker. Or after 1000 years, has he conquered his Beast, or become devoured?

Stay tuned next time! Same Beast Time! Same Beast Channel!

Well... my theory (more like a few additions to the thoughts commonly floating around really) was pretty much in it's infancy and only so and so much can be guessed at this point.

Skully not being a total berserker is a good point, maybe it's just a side-effect of old age? ;D

The translation by Saiki tells us that the armor is called "the Berserker Armor", which pretty much rules out that the ones Skully and Guts are wearing would be identical. It's still possible that they're rather similar suits though. Maybe Skully's suit doesn't bring out the beast in him, but something very different. The bitter avenger? The grim reaper? From lines like "It's my mission to oppose evil anywhere I come into contact with it" (or something similar, I think he said this when he saved Rickerts while the Eclipse was taking place) I wouldn't go calling it anything yet

Ozmo said:

The translation by Saiki tells us that the armor is called "the Berserker Armor",

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No, it's "Berserk's Armor". This has been clarified at least three times now.

which pretty much rules out that the ones Skully and Guts are wearing would be identical. It's still possible that they're rather similar suits though.

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Exactly, otherwise, how could Zodd instantly recognize it?

Maybe Skully's suit doesn't bring out the beast in him, but something very different. The bitter avenger? The grim reaper? From lines like "It's my mission to oppose evil anywhere I come into contact with it" (or something similar, I think he said this when he saved Rickerts while the Eclipse was taking place)

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Your quote above sounds like something from the beginning of his Volume 18 speech. Cool theory. Right now, Im leaning towards Skully having complete control of his "beast" by now. What he had to do through those 1000 years to conquer it though... well, my belief is that it's left him as an empty shell of armor. The "beast" eating through him (physically and spiritually) would also explain Flora's line about "retaining some of your humanity" (ch. 203).

Saiki's recent translation of ch. 226 makes things much more interesting. "Entrust everything to me", as if it's doing Guts a favor... As it stands, the Beast is Guts' most powerful ally and the most immediately dangerous enemy. Guts will have to go through some real shit to get rid of this parasite. Maybe 1000 years worth.

Or just one "special" night with a reawakened Casca. I can see it now, "The Beast's weakness is... Love!" :-* :-* :-*

Or just one "special" night with a reawakened Casca. I can see it now, "The Beast's weakness is... Love!" :-* :-* :-*

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Who knows? The beast seeing Caska as an obstacle in Gut's way of killing Griffith may not be the only reason the beast wants her dead...

Though love being the key to victory IS a little overused. ;D

Really though, I think part of what may help Guts defeat the beast is emotional release. The only way he's expressed his grief for the hawks and all his pain and sadness is through vengeance and hate. Godo said it well: Hate is a place that people go when they can't handle sadness. The problem being, he really can't share his feelings with anyone but Caska, because first off he's never really trusted anyone as much as her, and secondly noone else knows just exactly what he's gone through, but he can't do that because she's insane. And because of that, it just adds to his frustration and fuel for the beast, which is the sad irony of it all.
The poor guy just needs some serious therapy. ;D

Swordsman in Sable said:

Really though, I think part of what may help Guts defeat the beast is emotional release. ...

The poor guy just needs some serious therapy. ;D

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Good call. This leads me to think about a sit down Guts might have in the future with the rest of his Band, to explain his connection with this Griffith guy. He hasn't given them any information at all. But by this point, I think some indirect group therapy would do the lug some good.

This sort of speculation belongs more in the 226 thread, but oh well. I'll let it slide, seeing as it's, well... me. 8)

Something just hit my mind, what about SK's horse ? The dwarves made a custom armor or what ?

It could be just ornemental but then how did the horse get "transformed" like its master ?

Walter said:

No, it's "Berserk's Armor". This has been clarified at least three times now.

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Big difference. ::) I actually remembered this after typing the name, but didn't think it matters at all.

Walter said:

Exactly, otherwise, how could Zodd instantly recognize it?

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It's higly possible that Guts and Skull Knight both wear a sort of morphing armor that changes eventually (or quite quickly in this case) and they looked the same before all the changes. However, it might not have been the Armor of the Berserk, but the Armor of *something else*. Skully wearing something called a "Berserk's Armor" doesn't sound right to me anyway. :)

Ozmo said:

Big difference. ::) I actually remembered this after typing the name, but didn't think it matters at all.

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Don't put too much stock in what you think. ;)

Ozmo said:

It's higly possible that Guts and Skull Knight both wear a sort of morphing armor that changes eventually (or quite quickly in this case) and they looked the same before all the changes. However, it might not have been the Armor of the Berserk, but the Armor of *something else*. Skully wearing something called a "Berserk's Armor" doesn't sound right to me anyway. :)

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Well, the helmet was shaped like a skull before Guts put it on… so either that’s the default when it has no owner, or Skully was the last to don it. The former makes sense by itself, but considering Skull Knight’s familiarity with the armor and Zoddo’s statements in 226, it seems like too big a coincidence not to be the latter. We’ll see though, I guess. ^_^

-Griffith

Gaiseric before SK and his kingdom

At the same time this just brings back a lot of thoughts from the past in older manga volumes in terms of speculating about God Hand and SK.

If the armor is worn too long and causes insanity, then what makes SK still sane and why has he been around for so long ( 1000 years is pretty damn ancient LOL). No one knew where he came from. Similarly, no one really knows where Guts came from other than he was born of a dead woman. Yet he became a powerful fighter and in my opinion, the one chosen in some way to fight Griffith's evil and his dark army. Perhaps SK was at one time also a drifter from humble origins, and through sheer force and power became the ruler of a kingdom?

And perhaps the armor he wore as someone stated here, melded with Gaiseric, thus the armor and he became one...giving him the benefit of immortality ( or somewhat like it) and the curse of having lost most of his 'humanity?'

LG

Re:Gaiseric before SK and his kingdom

Lady Griffith said:

If the armor is worn too long and causes insanity, then what makes SK still sane and why has he been around for so long ( 1000 years is pretty damn ancient LOL).

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I think that is 2 different armor we're talking :)

If it was created and forged by elves I wonder what is the element in the armor Guts wears that would make him insane if he wore it too long.
LG

I really can't see Skully having anything like the Beast ...

That seems to me like it is Guts' particular burden, and thus makes me assume the Skull armor is the default.

Personally I think the Beast is something that hasn't come up in any other cycle and will likely be part of the make or break point for Guts cycle. It will either sscrew him or help him, but it won't let him just bide his time and wait as SK does.

the beast well as i see it the beast is something in guts subconsience that is caged by fear seen as the armor removes fear from the mind of the wielder it also frees the beast so i think the beast is unique to guts little theory if skullknight's armor is almost identical to guts new armor maybe he died in battle long ago and as the armor also removes pain can it possibly carry the body over years feeding off it and the emotions of the wielder so maybe skully is basicly just a walking armor ???hehe i come up whit the stupidest crap ho well

Hmmm..

You think that if Skull Knight had worn the armour prior to Guts, then Guts would be able to detect some kind of Skully aura about the armour.

Walter said:

Saiki's recent translation of ch. 226 makes things much more interesting. "Entrust everything to me", as if it's doing Guts a favor... As it stands, the Beast is Guts' most powerful ally and the most immediately dangerous enemy. Guts will have to go through some real shit to get rid of this parasite. Maybe 1000 years worth.​

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I don't think the Beast is really a parasite as such, I believe it's more like Gut's true will. When he says "This is my...." in 226, I'd like to think he finishes the sentence with something like "...true self?" It would make a very interesting plot twist if he were to realise the Beast was a maniphestation of his true self, and finally gives in to it. Instead of trying to get rid of it, why not use it to his advantage, to control this power he's been damned with?

Uriel said:

You think that if Skull Knight had worn the armour prior to Guts, then Guts would be able to detect some kind of Skully aura about the armour

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When has he been able to do that in the first place? I really don't remember Gut's being able to sense Skully at all.. Please correct me if I am wrong. Oh, and that remark about my scans not being HQ...Oh, you'll pay! ;D

SaiyajinNoOuji said:

When has he been able to do that in the first place? I really don't remember Gut's being able to sense Skully at all.. Please correct me if I am wrong. Oh, and that remark about my scans not being HQ...Oh, you'll pay! ;D

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Check when they first meet. this might help narrow it down Guts senses this monstrous aura thats similar to an apostles.

Majin Tenshi said:

Check when they first meet. this might help narrow it down Guts senses this monstrous aura thats similar to an apostles.

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Im going out on a limb here, but I think that was just Guts' natural instinct at being in the prescence of a strong warrior. He has a similar feeling with Boscone, but realizes he can, in the lyrics of the film classic Cool Runnings, "RISE ABOVE IT!"

it is the warrior thing, but its the the paralyzing-with-fear thing that affects every dimwit...

Walter said:

Im going out on a limb here, but I think that was just Guts' natural instinct at being in the prescence of a strong warrior. He has a similar feeling with Boscone, but realizes he can, in the lyrics of the film classic Cool Runnings, "RISE ABOVE IT!"​

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Bad reference :-X