Poll

Which do you think is right?

Gaiseric = Skullknight
9 (45%)
Skullknight = previous "Guts"
3 (15%)
Gaiseric = Skullknight = previous "Guts"
4 (20%)
Other
4 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 19

Author Topic: A small problem with a common theory  (Read 3515 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Majin Tenshi

  • McCoy Golem!
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • The can opener went bye-bye...
A small problem with a common theory
« on: August 11, 2003, 11:33:18 PM »
Ok, so here's what appear to be a few well excepted theories.

Gaiseric = Skullknight.  (Gaseric eventualy became skullknight over the 1000 years)
Skullknight = previous "Guts"  (Guts and Skullknight both walk the path of the "struggler")

Therefore, Gaiseric = Skullknight = previous "Guts" ... ?
I don't see Guts going around conquering the world.  I see Griffith doing that.  Perhaps its time to scrap one of those two theories.  My guess is that Skully = Guts seems to be more strongly re-inforced as of late.  

(Yes, I know that history doesn't repeat itself, but they've implied its probably gonna be rather similar).  
« Last Edit: August 11, 2003, 11:33:49 PM by Majin Tenshi »
Ok, so I leave and come back....

Offline xizor

Re:A small problem with a common theory
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2003, 11:50:37 PM »
The total history isnt listed in detail.... i think that Gaiseric = Skullknight = previous "Guts" could still work.  
Eventhough this states that Gaiseric = previous "Guts" it can just be certain aspects of him and not the whole going around conquering the world part.



Xizor

Offline Graywords

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 451
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • Bettychu, I choose YOU!
Re:A small problem with a common theory
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2003, 12:08:40 AM »
Gaiseric = Skull Knight is *pretty much* a given.  But there's obviously a lot more to it.  He has aspects of both Guts and Griffith's ambitions, so it's not really safe to say he's a "previous" anybody.  He's just himself...
*SPANKspankspankspankspankspankspankspank*  *hug*
-Luca


ゆだねろ~

medievald00d

  • Guest
Re:A small problem with a common theory
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2003, 01:29:31 AM »
they both walk the path of the struggler. this does not mean that they are one and the same

Gaseric is NOT equal to previous Guts, because Gaseric does not become skull knight until be becomes a struggler. WHEN he becomes a struggler, then he becomes previous Guts

Offline xizor

Re:A small problem with a common theory
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2003, 06:14:42 AM »
With the new translation of 226 on page 4, zodd tells SK "Do you plan on having him walk the same path as you".  This quote brings us more evidence that SK = a previous "Guts".  It now seems that a vote for Skullknight = previous "Guts"  or Gaiseric = Sk = previous "Guts" got more evidence and is more a question of if you belive Gaiseric = Skullknight.

Xizor

Ozmo

  • Guest
Re:A small problem with a common theory
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2003, 11:39:45 AM »
I don't think I understand this "SK is previous Guts" thing at all. Is Guts supposed to be a reincarnation or something?

As for the Zodd's line, I think it meant something like "You want him to become a walking suit of armor too?".

Offline kimchan

  • Berserk Lovin' Gal
  • Of the Vortex
  • ****
  • Posts: 1087
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Female
  • "Should I be overcome by the vapors?
Re:A small problem with a common theory
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2003, 12:50:06 PM »
I don't think I understand this "SK is previous Guts" thing at all. Is Guts supposed to be a reincarnation or something?

As for the Zodd's line, I think it meant something like "You want him to become a walking suit of armor too?".

I think that means that Skull Knight may have taken a similar path as Guts.  He may have been a "struggler" also.
Puck: He's my villa, Isidro.  And *he's* my main house, Guts.

Offline Smith

Re:A small problem with a common theory
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2003, 03:59:19 PM »
He may have been a "struggler" also.

Not may have, he is still a "struggler"
It piss me off when I see weaklings, it make me want to crush them

Offline Kuroi-san

  • Of the Nexus
  • ***
  • Posts: 626
  • Karma: 0
  • Gonna do something, or just stand there and bleed?
Re:A small problem with a common theory
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2003, 05:37:07 PM »
Someone, I think it was Flora, who said that causality is a spiral, not a circle. So perhaps...

Gaiseric = Skully

Priest dude = Void

Skully/Priest dude = Guts

Gaiseric/Void = Griffith

Griffith is like Gaiseric; he most probably will conquer the world. However, I also seem him as Void, a wielder of immense power. Guts is like Skully, a struggler. But, perhaps he is also like the priest dude, perhaps he will also damn Griffith's kingdom.

Just a bit of speculation.
You die first, get it? Your friends might get me in a rush but not before I turn your head into a canoe. What's it gonna be?

Offline Majin Tenshi

  • McCoy Golem!
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • The can opener went bye-bye...
Re:A small problem with a common theory
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2003, 06:03:46 PM »
Skully/Priest dude = Guts

Gaiseric/Void = Griffith
 now this is starting to make sense, though, perhaps a group of people got written into being the "Priest dude"
Ok, so I leave and come back....

Offline Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 15898
  • Karma: 475
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
Re:A small problem with a common theory
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2003, 01:38:18 AM »
He wasn't a priest, or even a Holy man. He was a "wise man".  This is like a warped, fictional version of the game Telephone.  Anyway, as simple as this distinction is, it really is pretty relevant.  

Cool topic.  Everything is getting more complex and suprising as we hear more about the SkullKnight of old.  But sit back and hit the restart button, forgetting what you know currently.  The first time we hear about Gaiseric, Guts instantly is reminded of Griffith's history.  While this is inconclusive, it could be thought of as a little peek into Miura's intentions at that point in time.  

Flash forward. By this point in the story, especially with Zodd's blatant line in 226  (paraphrased as: "will he follow your path?"), it seems more and more likely that Gaiseric = Guts, refuting the old, almost law of a theory of Gaiseric = Griffith.  The solution to this garbled nonsense?  In my opinion it's Flora's line in Ch. 223, paraphrased as: "Causality is a spiral."  Events may or may not reoccur as they did in the past, regardless of how similar the situation may seem.

  But strictly for this argument, my vote is for "Other" as my belief is "Guts = Wise Man = Skull Knight while Gaiseric = Skull Knight".   :o  Allow me to explain.  I don't see events mirroring themselves as much as reversing the old roles.  Now the Wiseman plays Gaiseric's role (Void as Griffith paralleling Gaiseric)  and Gaiseric's role is played by the Wiseman (SK as Guts paralleling The Wiseman).  

Honestly though, as you can see from my half-sarcastic vote, it's really still too cloudy, as even the Void/Wiseman theory is just a theory.  We only know half of the equasion.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2003, 01:57:18 AM by Walter »
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Griffith

  • The Millennium Falcon
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 9698
  • Karma: 230
  • Gender: Male
  • My posts are better.
Re:A small problem with a common theory
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2003, 05:32:59 AM »
GUTS IS SKULL KNIGHT 2099!!!

I hate to rain on the parade, but I’m voicing my opinion that this whole “this guy = this guy” trend going on in here is fucking lame like an EFL theory. First of all, we don't have much information about the events of 1000 years ago. Certainly not enough to compare roles. Secondly, the "Causality is a spiral" line negates any immediate relevance this could have anyway. And besides all that, though there are obvious parallels that cannot be ignored; they’re so multi-faceted and involve so many characters that putting them in terms as black and white as mathematical equation is just an exercise in being wrong.

-Griffith

Offline Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 15898
  • Karma: 475
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
Re:A small problem with a common theory
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2003, 12:30:41 AM »
Yeah... well... I was at least wrong the BEST.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline himura_kenshin

Re:A small problem with a common theory
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2003, 12:17:44 AM »
The characters are too different to make a perfect parallel, but I'd like to point out that i believe flora said somethign about "you suffer the same curse" when talking to skullknight and referring to Guts. It doesn't necessarily mean they parallel, and it certainly doesn't mean that anyone was reincarnated as anyone else, but it does imply strongly that skullknight was either branded or possibly (less likely imo) struggling with an alter ego such as beast, because besides beast and his brand, what other "curse" does Guts suffer from? This may be a hair off the topic, and i'm sure i'm not the first to come up with it, but "festival" or the reincarnation of a God hand, comes around every 1000 years. Charlotte said that the story of gaiseric was probably 1000 years old. something can't "come around every 1000 years" unless it's happened before. 1000 years before the festival which took place at the tower, there WAS another festival somewhere. It's only logical to believe this was the downfall of gaiserics kingdom and it gives a rational explanation for why the victims at the bottom of the pit were branded. The question is, WHO was the gh that was reincarnated during that festival and what became of them? i sort of liked the idea that skull knight was a rogue gh, but that doesn't work w/ the idea that he was gaiseric OR the idea that he is branded like Guts, so it's tough to justify that one -_-

Offline Majin Tenshi

  • McCoy Golem!
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • The can opener went bye-bye...
Re:A small problem with a common theory
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2003, 12:36:02 AM »
It's only logical to believe this was the downfall of gaiserics kingdom and it gives a rational explanation for why the victims at the bottom of the pit were branded. The question is, WHO was the gh that was reincarnated during that festival and what became of them? i sort of liked the idea that skull knight was a rogue gh, but that doesn't work w/ the idea that he was gaiseric OR the idea that he is branded like Guts, so it's tough to justify that one -_-
 Why can't it be that Gaseric (the same first letter parrallel common to fantasy) was the God Hand revived 1000 years ago...?
Ok, so I leave and come back....

Offline himura_kenshin

Re:A small problem with a common theory
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2003, 12:53:48 AM »
the festival i mentioned was both the downfall of gaiserics kingdom and the reincarnation of a gh, gaiseric couldn't very well be reincarnated during the downfall of his own kingdom, because he couldn't exist in the physical world until after the festival. Were you referring to a third and unmentioned festival 1000 years before that? if so, i suppose it's possible, but it still doesn't clarify who was reincarnated at THIS festival. furthermore, it would imply that gaiseric was alive for 100 years, and it wasn't until just that last 50 at most that he finally rounded up a kingdom. It's possible, but Griffith certainly isn't wasting that kind of time. I say 50 or so because if gaiseric reigned for 1000 years, the people would have kinda noticed something :P

Offline Majin Tenshi

  • McCoy Golem!
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • The can opener went bye-bye...
Re:A small problem with a common theory
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2003, 01:05:03 AM »
the festival i mentioned was both the downfall of gaiserics kingdom and the reincarnation of a gh, gaiseric couldn't very well be reincarnated during the downfall of his own kingdom, because he couldn't exist in the physical world until after the festival. Were you referring to a third and unmentioned festival 1000 years before that? if so, i suppose it's possible, but it still doesn't clarify who was reincarnated at THIS festival. furthermore, it would imply that gaiseric was alive for 100 years, and it wasn't until just that last 50 at most that he finally rounded up a kingdom. It's possible, but Griffith certainly isn't wasting that kind of time. I say 50 or so because if gaiseric reigned for 1000 years, the people would have kinda noticed something :P
 From what I remember, the downfall of Gaseric's kingdom was the wise man summoning 4(5) angels to destroy it.  Now, I don't remember the Godhand doing much destruction at either eclipse (apostles on the other hand...)
Its far from certain that there was an eclipse festival at the fall of Gaseric's empire.  He could have been revived earlier then that...
Ok, so I leave and come back....

Offline himura_kenshin

Re:A small problem with a common theory
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2003, 01:23:49 AM »
Quote
From what I remember, the downfall of Gaseric's kingdom was the wise man summoning 4(5) angels to destroy it.  Now, I don't remember the Godhand doing much destruction at either eclipse (apostles on the other hand...)
Its far from certain that there was an eclipse festival at the fall of Gaseric's empire.  He could have been revived earlier then that...


yeah a lot of ppl have been talking about that wiseman, i don't remember that, mind giving me a reference to where in the manga it was? Anyway, there's a huge difference between the two eclipses we saw, the first one was the birth of a gh, the second was a reincarnatin where a large group of ppl was destroyed, which could equate to a downfall of a kingdom. as far as those angels destroying something, they were not necessarily gh. skully tells Guts that a festival (reincarnation eclipse) will have reflections of the past eclipse. in the festival we saw Guts in, there were spirit-mesh replicas of gh, though they did not themselves appear. the mythology that charlotte spoke of could easily have construed these replicas to be the angels. i can guarantee you that a festival took place around that time period. If you tell me that the downfall of gaiserics kindom wasn't it, your telling me that some angels came down and destroyed gaiserics kindom because an wise man summoned them, meanwhile, a gh is being reincarnated somewhere, but that's not important to our story..... possible? yes.. likely? well, not as far as i can tell, but please tell me if i missed something.