Downfall of Gaiseric: not the creating of a God Hand

I brought this up in another thread, but it was somewhat off topic and that thread died anyway. As everything in this category, this is only speculation, but i think it has pretty strong backing.

Charlotte explained that the story of gaiseric was about 1000 years old. As skully tell us, something called a festival where a god hand is not initiated but reborn occurs every 1000 years. For it to occur every 1000 years, the one at the tower with mozgus and friends cannot have been the first one. Meaning something similar happend 1000 years ago, near or even on the date of the downfall of gaiseric's kindom. I know it's a popular belief that skully was gaiseric and was sacrificed by some wise man who was void (which i didn't see in the manga, i've only heard about it here, if someone could please give me a reference). But if the destruction of gaiseric's kindom was the initiation of an apostle and not the rebirth, that means that somewhere, at almost the same time, there was a festival going on, and it hasn't even been mentioned in the manga! That would be strange. Anyway, we know without a doubt, unless miura just plain forgot this detail (which i sorta doubt) that somewhere near the date of gaiseric's downfall, a preexisting god hand WAS reborn. The question is who was it, where was it, and what ever happened to them?

Reowfall of gaiseric: not the creating of a god hand

http://www.skullknight.net/yabbse/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=2032
this should make my thaughts on the subject rather clear.

Reowfall of gaiseric: not the creating of a god hand

This is the forementioned topic that died, and you never responded to my last post!

Reowfall of gaiseric: not the creating of a god hand

Is the pre-godhand anything to do with the angels that destroy Gaiseric Empire? What if Gaiseric was actually one of the previous godhand that was reborn? I mean Gaiseric and Griffith do share similarily that their army is stong enough to conquer the whole midland.But was it just purely concidence?


There is too many doubt and question about the Prehistoric event that took place 1000 yrs ago, i guess that the only person who can answer all these is Muira himself...

Reowfall of gaiseric: not the creating of a god hand

Maybe when griffith will have made his own kingdom, people will want someone to destroy griffith thus wanting through idea that somebody use a crimson beherit... This person could sacrifice griffith's kingdom and make griffith a kind of new skullknight...

With this in mind here is my parallel:

Gaiseric can be a godhand reborn and a few years later void sacrifice gaiseric kingdom becoming a godhand. Since Gaiseric is a godhand reborn, he is strong enough to survive BUT not enough to fight the whole of the 4 (5) angels...

Hum, It was clear in my mind, but i don't think it is clear now... What do you think about this?

Reowfall of gaiseric: not the creating of a god hand

Aquedesin said:

This person could sacrifice griffith's kingdom and make griffith a kind of new skullknight...

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When this happen, the credit would most likely goes to Guts, but he is not gonna be one of those new generation GH, he would achieve this by something else such as consumed by the beast and be one of the future SK (more likely Skullbeast ;))

Reowfall of gaiseric: not the creating of a god hand

Aquedesin said:

Maybe when griffith will have made his own kingdom, people will want someone to destroy griffith thus wanting through idea that somebody use a crimson beherit... This person could sacrifice griffith's kingdom and make griffith a kind of new skullknight...

With this in mind here is my parallel:

Gaiseric can be a godhand reborn and a few years later void sacrifice gaiseric kingdom becoming a godhand. Since Gaiseric is a godhand reborn, he is strong enough to survive BUT not enough to fight the whole of the 4 (5) angels...

Hum, It was clear in my mind, but i don't think it is clear now... What do you think about this?

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thats the way i saw it, but i havent read the mange past vol. 10, so i just going off of what others say

Reowfall of gaiseric: not the creating of a god hand

I was toying with that theory, and i kinda like it. Problem is that flora said something to skullknight about "suffering the same curse" as gatts. Just by that quote, can we make any other assumption than that skully was branded?

Theoretically, gatts could use the behelit to become the beast and sacrifice grif's kingdom. Doing this, he would become the next skullknight. Tidy little parallel right? Problem is, for god hand initiation, a group of people is sacrificed, like the hawks. For a festival, a whole community (or maybe even kingdom) is sacrificed, like the second eclipse. Furthermore, you have to care about your sacrifice, and grif would probably not care about grif's kingdom.

Oh and btw, gh don't actually show up at festivals, just spirit-meshes that look like them.

Reowfall of gaiseric: not the creating of a god hand

himura, I doubt Guts could sacrifice Griffith's kingdom. That would be like the snail count dude trying to sacrifice Guts. Also, did your last line mean the God Hand weren't present at the Eclipse in volume 13? If so, I would be very curious on where Slan knew Guts before from, since she obviously knew him in their vol 26 date. :)

Hmmm... This thing about Skull Knight/Gaiseric being a reborn Godhand might have some merit. The way we're told of how he conquered the world and was a bit of a mighty warrior type is quite similar to Griffith's current conquest (who can tell where he'll stop?). Things happening again like this is a part of the Causality thing, right?

Of course that wouldn't explain how Skull Knight previously wore the armor Guts now has (strongly hinted in 227 and Skully's conversation with Flora in errr... I think t'was 222) and how he's apparently branded (Flora asked if he helped them because he shared their curse).

I think I'll check the mentioned few chapters from this site's translations since my information is based on the Hawks scans...

Reowfall of gaiseric: not the creating of a god hand

himura, I doubt Guts could sacrifice Griffith's kingdom. That would be like the snail count dude trying to sacrifice Guts.

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I know, that's the very point i was making when i said this:

Furthermore, you have to care about your sacrifice, and grif would probably not care about grif's kingdom.

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*Switching from my quote to yours here*

Also, did your last line mean the God Hand weren't present at the Eclipse in volume 13? If so, I would be very curious on where Slan knew Guts before from, since she obviously knew him in their vol 26 date.

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No, a "festival" is what happend in 22. The eclipse in 13 was the initiation of a gh. The rebirth of a gh as flesh, which only comes around every 1000 years, is called a festival. gh were not present in the festival in 22, only spirit-mesh imposters.

and Skully's conversation with Flora in errr... I think t'was 222) and how he's apparently branded (Flora asked if he helped them because he shared their curse).

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This is the problem i have with the skully = reborn gh theory.

Any other ideas?

Reowfall of gaiseric: not the creating of a god hand

Ok, so by not reading your posts properly I just managed to agree with you on everything. Suppose it's a nice change for the usual "Omg, you must be a retard or something!" atmosphere on these boards. :)

Reowfall of gaiseric: not the creating of a god hand

Misreading people's posts!? you must be a retard ;)

Reowfall of gaiseric: not the creating of a god hand

what about the festival in volume 3 and 4 when the count was about to sacrifise theresa? the God Hand were there in person werent they?

Reowfall of gaiseric: not the creating of a god hand

again, not a festival. A festival is only when a gh is reborn in the flesh, and it only happens every 1000 years. The only festival we've actually seen happen so far in the manga is the one at the tower.

Reowfall of gaiseric: not the creating of a god hand

About skullknight being cursed, where did you read that a godhand reborn cannot be branded? It might very well be "sacrificed" but far to strong to be killed... Also, the curse flora speak about maybe that he live in the interstice (due to the fact that he was a gh), not necessarily that he is branded... Then about the armor, I still want to know if the person on volume 227 is really sk...

Reowfall of gaiseric: not the creating of a god hand

I never read that a gh can't be sacrificed. But you can only sacrifice someone you care about. Who cares about a gh? They sacrifice all their friends just getting there, so there shouldn't be anybody who cares about them left. It is possible, but i wouldn't count on it.

Ok, now i'm rereading stuff and getting confused again....

I need a better trans of chapter 18 (specifically chapter 142). Couldn't seem to find one in trans section, maybe i didn't look hard enough. Anyone have a link? Would be much appreciated.

What I don't understand...

When Princess Charlotte tells the story to Guts and co about Midland and King Gaiseric, and how the 'four angels' came down and destroyed the kingdom, we can sumrise that it was Void ( pre God Hand, as he was being tortured...Mosguz mentioned the 'wise man' who was tortured in the chamber where he did his daily and very painful thousand head knocks ritual) who possibly had some ties to magic or sorcery ( wise man=wizard? Minister=religious figure?) and called down these four angels ( the elementals) to destroy the kingdom.

But what I don't understand is when the manga shows the bodies of all the dead...they bear the brand of the sacrifice. Who sacrificed them? Void? Slann? Was King Gaiseric like Guts then, a lone wanderer, his kingdom/purpose destroyed, and he was stuck in the SK armor so long he became part of it and thus, nearly immortal?

LG

Reowfall of gaiseric: not the creating of a god hand

Miura would be a damn good dungeon master because he really know how to give a lot of clues but still is able to confuse the players (readers) because they can't make them get in the whole puzzle right...

Re:What I don't understand...

Lady Griffith said:

But what I don't understand is when the manga shows the bodies of all the dead...they bear the brand of the sacrifice. Who sacrificed them? Void? Slann? Was King Gaiseric like Guts then, a lone wanderer, his kingdom/purpose destroyed, and he was stuck in the SK armor so long he became part of it and thus, nearly immortal?

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My vote is wise man made the very first sacrifice to become Void, and Flora used the summon of the four kings to save Gasaeric and fight Void.
Or maybe visa-versa.... to soon to tell. Or as Jordan would say RAFO.

Re:What I don't understand...

krunkster said:

My vote is wise man made the very first sacrifice to become Void, and Flora used the summon of the four kings to save Gasaeric and fight Void.
Or maybe visa-versa.... to soon to tell. Or as Jordan would say RAFO.

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good point! It hadn't occoured to me, since Jap has more/better unisex pronouns then english, but the wiseman doesn't have to be male.

I don't think that Flora is a thousand years old though.

Reowfall of gaiseric: not the creating of a god hand

I think i could come up with a good theory here but there are two things i really need.

1.) a reference to where this wise man was mentioned
2.) a decent trans of chapter 142 (in volume 18)

btw, i have looked for that second one here, but i couldn't find it. It would be very much appreciated if someone could help me out.

Oh and yeah, i don't really think flora is 1000 years old either, unless she preserved herself w/ magic somehow *shrug*. Just curious, is there something in the manga i missed that makes you think flora had anything to do with this? I mean the 4 angels being the elementals is a good theory, but why couldn't it be some earlier generation of sorcerer? And what then, is the significance of the confusino between 4 and 5 angels?

Reowfall of gaiseric: not the creating of a god hand

Well, we've established that people in the interstice (or where ever Flora's house is) live longer. But I doubt thats 10x as long as everyone else.

(I've gotta memorise that reality layers chart)

Reowfall of gaiseric: not the creating of a god hand

krunkster said:

My vote is wise man made the very first sacrifice to become Void, and Flora used the summon of the four kings to save Gasaeric and fight Void.
Or maybe visa-versa.... to soon to tell. Or as Jordan would say RAFO.

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This is one of the best speculation i have seen on this topic, u really hit me that though charlotte mention the four kings destroy Gaiseric empire, it might be interpret as the culprit (to the destruction of Gaiseric empire) because they seem to be presence during that incident, which in actual fact they are protecting the empire against Void... Who knows if that was the case because event are often distorted as time passes..

Majin Tenshi said:

Well, we've established that people in the interstice (or where ever Flora's house is) live longer. But I doubt thats 10x as long as everyone else.

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Well considering that Morgan met her after 50 years and her appearance had not even change goes to show that it is highly possible (She might only aged 5 years in the interstice)

Reowfall of gaiseric: not the creating of a god hand

Wait a minute... people in the interstice live longer? Kyaaaaaaaaahhh! i didn't know that! that adds a whole new dimension! Oh and *cough* i would just love a reference to that wise man thing, if anyone knows the general area in the manga where it happened. <.< >.>

Reowfall of gaiseric: not the creating of a god hand

himura_kenshin said:

people in the interstice live longer?

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Hmmm... that came another question, if that was the case, then wouldnt Guts also lived longer?



P.S I m quite sure i m not the first to ask this... :-X