Author Topic: some guy made guts in d20 rules  (Read 4559 times)

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psymont

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some guy made guts in d20 rules
« on: September 10, 2003, 02:26:43 PM »
quite a few details are erred in my opinion

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60941
« Last Edit: September 10, 2003, 03:10:02 PM by Psymont »

Offline eintrigga

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Re:some guy made guts in d20 rules
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2003, 02:55:24 PM »
personally, i can not express how much contempt i hold for the geekiness of roleplaying anime/novels/movie. Living vicariously through someone else's fantasy is an affront to human will. Then again, that's just my opinion.

btw. in AD&D, the fighter kit "Berserker" fixes the discussed inconsistency with fighter/barbarian in d20.
up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, b, a, start ....sh*t!

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Offline Smith

Re:some guy made guts in d20 rules
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2003, 03:21:11 PM »
I cant believe my eye... They did involve Guts in AD&D  :o
It piss me off when I see weaklings, it make me want to crush them

Offline Majin Tenshi

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Re:some guy made guts in d20 rules
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2003, 06:49:38 PM »
Problem 1:  Guts isn't epic level yet.  
Problem 2:  the Dragonslayer should be a Mercurial Fullblade(2d8) or greatsword.  ( I admit greatsword since only epic rules allow for a fullblade, but I say Guts isn't epic).  He should also have improved critical and similar feets.  
Problem 3:  The DS is made of normal metal and has no magical properties that this guy has accounted for.  

Why isn't Guts epic level?  Well, for starters,  how about we look at Grunbeld.  Hes basicly a dragon (switch fire breath if he doesn't have it to get hardness).  His size, Huge, gets him as far as a Chalange Rateing of 18 (several), 17(some) 19(some good) 20(silver) 21(copper).  As much of a beating as Guts is takeing, this is not an even CR fight.  
Ok, so I leave and come back....

psymont

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Re:some guy made guts in d20 rules
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2003, 07:26:34 PM »
do not forget that a CR is made for average levels above 4 characters

ie:
two 20th level and two 18th level characters are suitable for a CR19

or

two 20th level, two 18th level and two 10th level characters are suitable for a CR24

atleast thats how i understand it

also, i have seen rules for zienhienders(horse slayers - spelled wrong) which are aproximately the same size at the DS .... however to use this weapon you must have the feat oversized weapon(or is it massive weapon?) ....

he did give him improved critical by the way ....
« Last Edit: September 10, 2003, 07:30:56 PM by Psymont »

Offline Mizar

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Re:some guy made guts in d20 rules
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2003, 07:52:29 PM »
Problem 4: Guts has a Charisma of 16??? Sorry, make that 10, maybe 12 at most.

And I don't think we should categorize Grunbeld as an ordinary dragon here, he's much more than that, even when seen from a D&D perspective.

Offline Majin Tenshi

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Re:some guy made guts in d20 rules
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2003, 08:18:57 PM »
do not forget that a CR is made for average levels above 4 characters
ie: two 20th level and two 18th level characters are suitable for a CR19
or
two 20th level, two 18th level and two 10th level characters are suitable for a CR24
atleast thats how i understand it

also, i have seen rules for zienhienders(horse slayers - spelled wrong) which are aproximately the same size at the DS .... however to use this weapon you must have the feat oversized weapon(or is it massive weapon?) ....

he did give him improved critical by the way ....
all the Crit feats? or just 1?  I lost interest at some point.  

Yea, I think I mentioned oversized weapon, but that is an epic feat.  

A 20th level party fighting a monster (or group) with a CR 20 shouldn't expend more then 1/4 of their resources.  This is gonna take everything Guts has.  
And I don't think we should categorize Grunbeld as an ordinary dragon here, he's much more than that, even when seen from a D&D perspective.
 Guts does have plenty of Charisma.  (Charisma being force of personality).  He's swayed a number of people, its just that Griffith's is higher.  Like 26 (reborn) or so.   ;D

Ok, lets compare Grunbeld to an ancient (oldest H size) copper dragon.  
39 AC (sounds possible)
Damage reduction: 15/+2 (DS not meeting +2) (posibly increase by 5)

Breath Weapon: Line of acid/ cone of slow gas.  (grunbeld probably doesn't have one)
Acid imunity, stone shape, transmute rock to mud/mud to rock, wall of stone
can cast Chaos Earth and Trickery domains as arcane spells.  
« Last Edit: September 10, 2003, 08:25:41 PM by Majin Tenshi »
Ok, so I leave and come back....

Offline Oltobaz

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Re:some guy made guts in d20 rules
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2003, 08:25:28 PM »
personally, i can not express how much contempt i hold for the geekiness of roleplaying anime/novels/movie. Living vicariously through someone else's fantasy is an affront to human will. Then again, that's just my opinion.

btw. in AD&D, the fighter kit "Berserker" fixes the discussed inconsistency with fighter/barbarian in d20.

Weird to find that kind of opinion in a Berserk related internet forum.Or maybe that's just me.
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Offline eintrigga

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Re:some guy made guts in d20 rules
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2003, 08:36:32 PM »
Guts does have plenty of Charisma.  (Charisma being force of personality).  He's swayed a number of people, its just that Griffith's is higher.  Like 26 (reborn) or so.   ;D

there's one thing i've always wondered about 3rd edition. how is it possilbe (not rulewise)that normal human characters can have stats over 18? if i remember correctly, a stat of 18 is the human maximum (especially because of the 3d6 limit). i can understand Griff having 20+ chr, but pippin having 26 str? i don't think the latter is a supernatural creature or anything of that sort.
in another word -- it doesn't seem possible for d20 to have a coherent gauge of the setting.

Weird to find that kind of opinion in a Berserk related internet forum.Or maybe that's just me.
yeah, there's some self-loathing here and there. but i like to imagine that i play RPGs for the sake of battling wits against a human mind. and berserk? i don't think that's a very good for a vicarious reading.
up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, b, a, start ....sh*t!

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Offline Majin Tenshi

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Re:some guy made guts in d20 rules
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2003, 08:57:07 PM »
there's one thing i've always wondered about 3rd edition. how is it possilbe (not rulewise)that normal human characters can have stats over 18? if i remember correctly, a stat of 18 is the human maximum (especially because of the 3d6 limit). i can understand Griff having 20+ chr, but pippin having 26 str? i don't think the latter is a supernatural creature or anything of that sort.
in another word -- it doesn't seem possible for d20 to have a coherent gauge of the setting.
 you get a stat point once every 4 levels.  also, there are ways to improve your stats un-naturaly.  (also, the half orc or whatever thing for pippen)
Ok, so I leave and come back....

Offline Aho411

Re:some guy made guts in d20 rules
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2003, 09:25:27 PM »
I wish I knew something about D&D. I've played some crappy MUDs in the past.

Offline Smith

Re:some guy made guts in d20 rules
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2003, 12:31:11 AM »
I really wish we could speak about abt the second edition, back in the days we had THACO, save vs death, spell, wand... etc
It piss me off when I see weaklings, it make me want to crush them

Offline MangyKid Ver.4.5

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Re:some guy made guts in d20 rules
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2003, 01:31:09 AM »
Yeah, well obviously guts should have a +6 Piss Jive Dagger, with a resistance to claustrophobia. And how could they not give him a Versmillion Capajack? Seriously guys, that's just sad. Now if it was me, I'd give him a Smookar Zweidyer of Ultimate Crushing +14, and then maybe some JibJob. At least a TTD99 jibjob, too.
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Offline eintrigga

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Re:some guy made guts in d20 rules
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2003, 02:28:04 AM »
 you get a stat point once every 4 levels.  also, there are ways to improve your stats un-naturaly.  (also, the half orc or whatever thing for pippen)
i know that, it's just that it always occured to me that 18 is the human limit -- therefore the characters on the aforementioned link are not at all faithful to the source. And on a general basis, it has always disturbed me that 3rd edition allows most "normal" chrs have stats that are beyond their ability (as things within nature). Of course, this is all based on the assumption that 18 (sometimes 19) is the human max. It was in Ad&D
« Last Edit: September 11, 2003, 02:30:29 AM by eintrigga »
up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, b, a, start ....sh*t!

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Offline Aho411

Re:some guy made guts in d20 rules
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2003, 02:48:44 AM »
Yeah, well obviously guts should have a +6 Piss Jive Dagger, with a resistance to claustrophobia. And how could they not give him a Versmillion Capajack? Seriously guys, that's just sad. Now if it was me, I'd give him a Smookar Zweidyer of Ultimate Crushing +14, and then maybe some JibJob. At least a TTD99 jibjob, too.

hahahaha

Offline Majin Tenshi

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Re:some guy made guts in d20 rules
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2003, 03:52:04 AM »
i know that, it's just that it always occured to me that 18 is the human limit -- therefore the characters on the aforementioned link are not at all faithful to the source. And on a general basis, it has always disturbed me that 3rd edition allows most "normal" chrs have stats that are beyond their ability (as things within nature). Of course, this is all based on the assumption that 18 (sometimes 19) is the human max. It was in Ad&D
 humans can surpas that.  Its just the limit on starting stats.  There are epic feats that require 19+ stats.  OH, and how is a mage supposed to cast 9th level spells if not for higher then 18 stats?
Ok, so I leave and come back....

Offline eintrigga

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Re:some guy made guts in d20 rules
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2003, 12:25:19 PM »
 humans can surpas that.  Its just the limit on starting stats.  There are epic feats that require 19+ stats.  OH, and how is a mage supposed to cast 9th level spells if not for higher then 18 stats?
Understood. I was still thinking Ad&D. So 18 is NOT the human maximum. Rather, there is no limit to human potentiality in 3rd edition. How nice to know that.
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Offline lye

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Re:some guy made guts in d20 rules
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2003, 07:40:51 PM »
no way! i always thought of guts as a level 50 snow troll.

Offline Majin Tenshi

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Re:some guy made guts in d20 rules
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2003, 11:19:20 PM »
no way! i always thought of guts as a level 50 snow troll.
 nope, doesn't have regeneration or cold imunity.
Ok, so I leave and come back....

Offline lye

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Re:some guy made guts in d20 rules
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2003, 12:52:09 AM »
lv.80 stone gnome?

Offline Majin Tenshi

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Re:some guy made guts in d20 rules
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2003, 01:09:08 AM »
lv.80 stone gnome?
 hes a medium sized creature, not small sized.  
Ok, so I leave and come back....

Offline Smith

Re:some guy made guts in d20 rules
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2003, 09:52:45 AM »
 hes a medium sized creature, not small sized.  

MAybe a level 100 berserker...  ;D
It piss me off when I see weaklings, it make me want to crush them

Offline Majin Tenshi

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Re:some guy made guts in d20 rules
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2003, 10:57:58 AM »
MAybe a level 100 berserker...  ;D
not that strong.
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Offline lye

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Re:some guy made guts in d20 rules
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2003, 05:46:37 PM »
lv.14.5 tree goblin?

Offline Majin Tenshi

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Re:some guy made guts in d20 rules
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2003, 05:49:39 PM »
lv.14.5 tree goblin?
 Too phisicly strong, and not agile enough in trees.  
Ok, so I leave and come back....