I don't understand the difference between the Astral and Idea worlds

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Ozmo

Guest
Ok, I've read Flora's lecture in vol 24 several times and think I figured out the Shadow World/Astral/Land of the Dead thing. Spirits of the recently deceased and things people believe in exist quite shallow in something of another dimension and the more powerful can interract with humans that believe in them. Deeper is where dead spirits end up and even deeper are incredibly powerful creatures and eventually the Idea of Evil.

This picture implies that it's merely a bit deeper in the Astral, but I don't think that fits at all with what was said in vol 24. What's this third world that ours interlaps with? All that's said about it would seem to be "The other is the root of our own existence, the world of ideas, or the soul".

Please help a confused Ozmo. ???
 

kimchan

"Should I be overcome by the vapors?
I guess this was the kind of thing Griffith had in mind when he dubbed me with that title.

I think the Ideal world is places like the Abyss, (where Idea lives, might be an easy way to remember.) If I remember correctly, Idea mentioned something about an "ocean of feelings" or "a common consciousness that transcends individuality" in chap 83. Maybe that's the same thing Flora was referring to.
 
the astral world is the correct version of the other world whereas the idea, is something asi as the human accumulation of emotions and fears whose religious conscience and forts death impulses gave to a conscience and asi him, this birtho like a species of parasite that is fed on the natural fear of the man towards which this but alla of the life the astral world is the spiritual world as it is it when it is not seen with fear, but with acceptance and peace
 
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Ozmo

Guest
And what exactly are you basing that statement on? I've been reading through the manga again and nothing seems to indicate towards what you're saying.
 
like all aqui, this is personal my opinion, I am based but that nothing in which eh observed and leido and concluded with some parts of the sleeve, although exists hazama and also they exist the God hand, also it is necessary to remember that segun flora the God hand is something asi like a black hole where human emotions were accumulated before mentioned, even though Los Angeles can show sections of hell or show imagenes of the past, is just like with science human fiction yla religion is single personal interpretations of the people, surely same hazama of which product of interpreatacion speaks flora that medical instructors of the natural magic have of the other world, the reality never is equal for all
 

Kart

Resident /b/tard
I recall flora saying that three worlds exsist on top of eachother also, i think that's just a rough graph of basically how deep each is, but for the most part i've never heard of the nexus other then in this graph itself, I believe it goes Astral (the world that exsists overlaping ours, where spirits who have recently deceased go and those with strong ties to this world), then i believe you would come to the Astral world, the world where spirits exsist, Such as the elements and deceased, Then we would enter the abyss...the world where demons, god hands, and the idea live.
 
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Ozmo

Guest
I read that topic, but I really don't agree with any of the theories there. I'll just post mine and see what people think about it since the old topic was locked.

I'm basing this mostly on Eirias' translation of volume 24, if any part of it is fundamentally incorrect please let me know.

Flora talked about three worlds in her lecture, our own, the Astral/Spirit/Shadow World and the Idea/Soul World. She said these worlds overlap each other, but never said the Idea World is just deeper in the Astral, or otherwise almost the same. The supernatural creatures from folklore like trolls and fairies, the huge astral bodies that are known as gods and devils, the places known as hell and heaven, the "spirit that governs human fate and thus exists outside of it's boundaries, not to mention looks a lot like the Idea of Evil in chapter 83", all are said to be in the Shadow/Astral World.

Now what I think all this means is that the Idea/Soul World could be as different from the Astral/Shadow/Spirit World as our own material world is. I believe that the Eclipse, the Idea of Evil, the God Hand etc all exist/happened in the Astral/Spirit/Shadow World and the Idea/Soul World has not necessarily been seen at all so far in the manga. The only instance I think we might have seen a glimpse of the Soul/Idea World is when Shiercke went into Guts' mind in chapters 228 and 229. The Interstice is either a thing Skull Knight made up to explain things to Guts in a hurry, or just a shallower part of the Astral/Shadow/Spirit World that Flora didn't think was necessary for her to mention when explaining the basics of "Miura-world".

I might be 100% right, 100% wrong, or anything in between. Please do tell me if you figure something that doesn't make sense.

Mostly the same as what I posted in this thread, except for the vehement disagreement over the status of the infamous chapter 83. :)
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Ozmo said:
I might be 100% right, 100% wrong, or anything in between. Please do tell me if you figure something that doesn't make sense.

100% waste of time.

I'm pretty sure Miura's world is largly based on Plato's world of forms. I was going to eventually try to tie it all together in a new world chart and big thread explaining it. But, as I said above, it's a waste of time, wouldn't be appreciated, even by myself, and wouldn't mean anything anyway. So, everyone should just study Plato and marvel at the simularities and new understanding of the Berserk world it will bring you. ;)

http://www.wpunj.edu/cohss/philosophy/courses/hegel/HEGEL1.HTM

Read more than just that on the subject too.

-Griffith

P.S. A lot more.
 
O

Ozmo

Guest
Walter said:
Have you read the entire series yet?

An excellent point, but if you think of things that way then half of the posts on these boards are all equally useless to mine. :)

I'll have to look into the Plato stuff, thanks for the link.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Ozmo said:
An excellent point, but if you think of things that way then half of the posts on these boards are all equally useless to mine. :)
... Maybe, but you can't go around refuting other people's theories with your incomplete knowledge of the series. Only an idiot would do that, right Ozmo?
 
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Ozmo

Guest
Walter said:
... Maybe, but you can't go around refuting other people's theories with your incomplete knowledge of the series. Only an idiot would do that, right Ozmo?

My intention was more like saying their theories didn't fit well with what we know so far. None more idiotic than making the theories in the first place.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Ozmo said:
My intention was more like saying their theories didn't fit well with what we know so far. None more idiotic than making the theories in the first place.

Yeah, but reading your theory, it sounds far more immature and unfinished; it's lacking a sense of the big picture and full knowledge, and makes you sound like a pompous ass and a fool that you presume to know better than those that, you know...have actually read the series and carefully considered things. ;D

But hey, it's your own little bastardized universe theory you slapped your name on, and if you like it best; that a boy! Cute. =)

-Griffith
 
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