Author Topic: Godhand's True Enemy  (Read 5143 times)

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Offline 2Rivers1Dragon

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Godhand's True Enemy
« on: November 18, 2003, 06:37:18 PM »
            This theory is based on quotes from vol. 23, 25, and the lost chapter.  I also came up with this theory thanks to past theories presented by Krunkster and Guil Malanus.  If I left anyone out I’m sorry.  This is my first post and I’m still a newbie when it comes to message boards.  
   I’ve read over the last few episodes of Berserk, and now I believe that there are 2 Godhands in the current Midland world.  One is obviously comprised of Idea, Void, Slan, Ubik, Conrad, and Griffith while the other Godhand is not completely known.  From what I’ve been able to piece together, 4 members of the other Godhand are the 4 chief elemental spirits Schierke talks about in vol. 25.  Schierke: “This four colored light is the manifestation of the spiritual power of great beings that grace us with their protection.”  These 4 elemental spirits are not Void, Slan, Conrad, and Ubik.  The four spirits represent elements of the physical world (fire, water, wind/sky, earth) and the elements of the human spirit (love, courage, wisdom, loyalty) that create order and good.  The members of Godhand are a corruption of these elements.  They represent what causes chaos in the world (war, famine, disease) and the dark side of the human spirit (lust, hatred, cowardice, deception).  From their appearances I think I can infer which member of Godhand represents which element.  Slan represents corrupt fire and lust (very naked and slutty woman).  Void represents corrupt wind and deception (exposed brain in appearance and name).  Conrad represents corrupt earth (seen in plague seen by taking form in a hill of rats).  Ubik represents corrupt water and cowardice.
   What about Griffith/Femto?  Which corrupt element is he?  Griffith is all of the above.  His final state before becoming a member of Godhand exemplified all the negative traits of the human spirit.  He lusted for Casca, he hated Guts for leaving him, he betrayed his men and made them a sacrifice, and he showed cowardice in trying to escape from his weakened state.  Now Griffith has been reborn as Idea’s champion.  His new purpose is to bring about chaos and despair to make Idea even stronger.
   Idea seems to feed off of chaos and despair.  This would explain his growing strength in this dark world of Midland.  So if Idea is the epitome of chaos and despair, then who is his true enemy(and the force behind the other Godhand)? Hope.  Hope is the complete opposite of fear and despair, and it can create a sense of order in the most difficult times (opinion).  But it has no doubt been considerably weakened thanks to the current state of Midland.  And if Griffith is Idea’s champion then Gut’s must be Hope’s.  Guts has slowly but surely been inspiring hope in a few people in the places that he’s visited (Ex. Erica, Godo, Jill, Luca, Nina).  Griffith has inspired hope in people as well, but this is a false hope that he is only using to fulfill his ambitions.  Guts also has all the traits of the good side of the human spirit (courage, love, loyalty, wisdom).  I think the beast may be holding him back from reaching this true strength cause it does seem to corrupt his spirit.  So good Godhand is made up of the 4 elemental spirits, Hope, and Guts.
   But if there is a second Godhand then why doesn’t it have any apostles?  It actually does, but they’ve gone unnoticed.  Flora is probably an apostle of the good Godhand.  She can not possibly be on the side of Griffith(wants her dead), but she has superhuman abilities to the point where she surpasses Grunbeld.  Grunbeld: “What is this flame...!? To not let I, a fire dragon, pass.”  Not to mention she has a transformation of her own.  At least that’s my take on it.
   Most of these statements have few facts to back them up.  They’re just pure speculation, but I’d be interested in hearing anyone else’s input.  Sorry for being so longwinded. ;D

Offline krunkster

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Re:Godhand's True Enemy
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2003, 10:21:25 PM »
I will eat my manga when miura decides to make a "good" god hand.

They are not good or evil.
useless [guts Guts Guts Guts gahtsu gast Guts Guts goats gates gitesu]

Offline Smith

Re:Godhand's True Enemy
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2003, 10:36:06 PM »
You know what...?

Guts will always be GH true enemy, and perhaps even the most dangerous one  ;D
It piss me off when I see weaklings, it make me want to crush them

Offline kimchan

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Re:Godhand's True Enemy
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2003, 10:37:44 PM »
I like this theory, except maybe for the "good God Hand part."  In any event, an impressive first post (as far as I am concerned)!  8)
Puck: He's my villa, Isidro.  And *he's* my main house, Guts.

Offline siguna

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Re:Godhand's True Enemy
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2003, 11:00:28 PM »
I thought that all of what you said was wonderful, and as i have not yet read enough of the manga and only watched the anime a few million times, i will get back to you on specifics when i can.  that was a great read!
 :D

Offline 2Rivers1Dragon

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Re:Godhand's True Enemy
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2003, 11:03:13 PM »
Thanks for the kudos and criticism. :)  Looking back at what I wrote, I guess the existence of a “good God Hand” is a little far fetched.  These elements are present in Midland, but I doubt they take the form paralleling God hand.  In the end I guess I was just answering an obvious question.  Guts is God hand’s true enemy.  The elemental spirits I mentioned earlier will probably play a more subtle role or none at all.

Offline theblakeman

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Re:Godhand's True Enemy
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2003, 12:28:03 AM »
I think that what Griffith is to Godhand Guts is to the Elemental Spirits...maybe Guts will be reborn or something like that. It's a logical theory.

Offline Kart

Re:Godhand's True Enemy
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2003, 04:30:56 AM »
Guts is evil...I think his motto would be "I will crush the world to get to you"

Offline theblakeman

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Re:Godhand's True Enemy
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2003, 05:04:45 AM »
He's not evil...his rage and lust for revenge simply blinds him.

Offline Smith

Re:Godhand's True Enemy
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2003, 12:09:35 PM »
Guts is evil


He seemed be one especially the first 2 yrs after the eclipse, but after consulting Godo in vol17, he seem to return 50% of his normal self!

The evil should be the manifestion of the beast...
It piss me off when I see weaklings, it make me want to crush them

Offline *Gyom*

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Re:Godhand's True Enemy
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2003, 03:27:41 PM »
Oh.
Reminds me of a drawing i had made in early 2003...

http://membres.lycos.fr/berserkfrance/items/godhand2.jpg

'hope you like it ^^
Guil

Offline 2Rivers1Dragon

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Re:Godhand's True Enemy
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2003, 07:49:20 PM »
Wow! I'm making friends already. ;D

Offline Majin Tenshi

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Re:Godhand's True Enemy
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2003, 11:13:04 PM »
Ok, so I leave and come back....

Offline Smith

Re:Godhand's True Enemy
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2003, 03:32:52 AM »
Wow! I'm making friends already. ;D

Wow i m amazed...  :o
It piss me off when I see weaklings, it make me want to crush them

Offline *Gyom*

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Re:Godhand's True Enemy
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2003, 05:54:43 AM »
Someone has been reading too much hellsing.
waaaat ... ? just watched a couple of eps...
Guil

Offline Kart

Re:Godhand's True Enemy
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2003, 10:40:54 AM »
Guts is evil, he has friends, he protects them, but he is still evil..

Offline *Gyom*

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Re:Godhand's True Enemy
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2003, 10:50:51 AM »
Guts is evil, he has friends, he protects them, but he is still evil..
Sorry man, you speak BS.
You should refer to what culture you're talking about, since morality is a cultural relativity. Plus, if we consider basically only his 'aprivanasa', sort of additioh of one's whole life acts, can you really say Gouuuts is evil ? No.
Guts is a badass. He's no whatever evil.
Guil

Offline Kakkoii_Guts

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Re:Godhand's True Enemy
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2003, 11:36:16 AM »
Guts does have a dark side, but he isn't completely EVIL.  He is just like a normal person (well aside from tossing around a 700 pound hunk of Iron ;)).  When I read throught the first few volumes of the manga I thought that he was definitely a cold individaul, but that is his personality.  He has demonstrated time and again that he is a good person, his methods are just a little different. ;)

Offline 2Rivers1Dragon

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Re:Godhand's True Enemy
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2003, 02:10:19 PM »
But if we consider his "whole life acts", it seems obvious that he killed more people than the average human being... In that way, he is sort of evil, no?
Killing out of self defense in not an evil action.  Gut’s really doesn’t have many options right now (kill or be killed).  Besides, he’s also felt genuine remorse for the times he may have gone too far.  I think “the beast” first appears after the Roshinu arc (after he had just massacred all those children who had turned into demons).  This could be Gut’s way of trying to stop this side of him.
Aside from that, I want to know why so many people think God hand is neutral force.  I know that Miura has shed very little light on their background, but from what I have seen they look pretty evil.  

Offline Kakkoii_Guts

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Re:Godhand's True Enemy
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2003, 03:11:02 PM »
The God Hand only carries out the wishes of the Beherit owners.  They aren't the evil ones.  I would consider them more as a vehicle to have your will done.

Offline elhinnaw

Re:Godhand's True Enemy
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2003, 04:24:28 PM »
What stuns me the most is that no one here has even mentioned the fact that if Idea wants all these negative traits to be coming out, and Griffith is the summation and tool of these negative traits, then why on earth would Griffith be doing what hes doing now?

Neo Griffith is doing the same thing that your theory claims Guts is doing, installing hope, and clearing disorder.  You have some interesting points, but as a wise man once told me, "I only vaguely see a connection in your theory.  It seems to only exist ... in theory."

Offline 2Rivers1Dragon

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Re:Godhand's True Enemy
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2003, 08:33:36 PM »
The God Hand only carries out the wishes of the Beherit owners.  They aren't the evil ones.  I would consider them more as a vehicle to have your will done.

From what I saw in Griffith's rise to become a member of God hand, he had to sacrifice the entire Band of the Hawk to gain that level of power.  No doubt the other member's had a similar sacrificial ceremony.  Sacrificing many innocent people to gain power?  If that's not evil then I don't know what is.  They seem to be more like apostles, but their rise to power requires more people to die as payment.

Offline 2Rivers1Dragon

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Re:Godhand's True Enemy
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2003, 08:35:56 PM »
What stuns me the most is that no one here has even mentioned the fact that if Idea wants all these negative traits to be coming out, and Griffith is the summation and tool of these negative traits, then why on earth would Griffith be doing what hes doing now?

Simple, he’s strengthening his army.  The new Band of the Hawk is near unstoppable, but the most recent chapter showed that the Kushan army is a lot stronger than anyone originally thought.  Griffith doesn’t care about helping others or bringing about order.   He’s simply using the Midlanders’ blind faith in the Hawk of the Light to his advantage.  He’s creating this false hope so can fulfill his ambition in becoming the new ruler of Midland.  Neo Griffith has yet to reveal his true motive.  What he plans to do after becoming king is up to debate, but I doubt that Griffith would have any interest in creating peace and prosperity.

Offline krunkster

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Re:Godhand's True Enemy
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2003, 11:01:38 PM »
Wow! I'm making friends already. ;D

It was a valiant effort, partly cause you referenced my theories. :)
IMHO The best first posts are theory posts, so good start.
But the best theory posts have solid facts, with page numbers.
useless [guts Guts Guts Guts gahtsu gast Guts Guts goats gates gitesu]

Offline Smith

Re:Godhand's True Enemy
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2003, 06:53:54 AM »
They aren't the evil ones.


I know why are the GH consider non-evil... Becz whatever they do to them is not evil at all... It would be natural for them since they arent the ones (such as Guts) that suffered from the consequence of their action
It piss me off when I see weaklings, it make me want to crush them