Author Topic: Berserk thru Major Arcana  (Read 1856 times)

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Offline *Gyom*

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Berserk thru Major Arcana
« on: December 07, 2003, 01:36:15 PM »
Some time ago already, I was doing some search about tarot... and something hit me.
I wont say that is any truth, but the story of the fool through the Mahor Arcana/Trumps reminds me of the journey Guts is doing. Lets do some comparisons. Its way too long but anyway...

Fool : the fool with a bag, a little dog warning him to watch his step because of a cliff -> Guts, Black Swordsman, Pucks tries to help him not to fall in his Beastial feelings.

Magician : Traveling on his way, the Fool first encounters a Magician. Skillful, self-confident, a powerful magus with the infinite as a halo floating above his head, the Magician mesmerizes the Fool.And to the Fool's eyes it is as if the Magician has created the future with a word. There are all the possibilities laid out, all the directions he can take. The cool, airy Sword of intellect and communication, the fiery Wand of spirituality and ambition, the overflowing Chalice of Love and emotions, the solid Pentacle of work, possessions and body. With these tools, the Fool can create anything, make anything of his life. But here's the question, did the Magician create the tools, or were they already in the pack? -> makes me think of the time Guts meets Skully, about the aura of the guy and hence how Guts' life is tending to change.

High Priestess : Continuing his journey, the Fool comes upon a beautiful and mysterious veiled lady enthroned between two pillars. She is the opposite of the Magician, quiet where he was loquacious, still where he was in motion, sitting while he stood, shrouded in the night where he was out in the bright of day. She is the High Priestess and she astonishes the Fool by knowing everything about him. More, she knows what tools he carries in his pack. She lets the Fool know that she knows how to use these items. She could teach him, if he's willing. Respectfully he asks her to pass on her wisdom, which she does in the form of archaic scrolls and soft whispers. Informed enough now to make initial decisions about what he wants, where he will go, and what he will do, the Fool pushes the pomegranate curtain aside and steps between the two pillars toward his future. -> it can only be his meeting with Flora imo.

Empress : Having decided what shape his future will take, the Fool strides forward. But he is impatient to make his future a full-grown reality. This is when he comes upon the Empress. She rests back on her throne surrounded by an abundance of grain and a lush garden. It is possible that she is pregnant. Kneeling, the Fool relates to her his story. And she, in turn, smiles a motherly smile and gently gives him this advice: "Like newly planted grain or a child in the womb, a new life, a new love, a new creation is fragile. It requires fertile soil, patience and nurturing, it needs love and attention. Only this will bring it to fruition." Understanding at last that his future will take time to build and create, the Fool thanks the Empress and continues on his way. -> well, this one imo is quite similar with the return of Guts in the Hawks, when he'll be intimate with Casca (though it is obviously befor Flora...)

Emperor : He approaches a great Emperor seated on a stone throne. The Fool is amazed by the way the Emperor is instantly, eagerly obeyed in every particular, at how well his Empire is run. Respectfully, he asks the Emperor how it is he does this. And the Emperor answers: "Strong will and a solid foundation. It's all very well," he explains to the Fool, "to be dreamy, creative, instinctual, patient; but to control one must be alert, brave and aggressive."
Ready now to lead rather than be led, the Fool heads out with new purpose and direction. -> this one makes me think of the arrival in the Hawks and his meeting with Griffith.

Hierophant : Having created a solid foundation on which to build his future, the Fool is struck with a sudden fear. What if everything he's worked for is taken away? Is stolen, or lost, or destroyed or vanishes? Or what if it is just not good enough? In a panic, he heads into a holy place where he finds the Hierophant, a wise teacher and holy man. "There are only two ways," says the Hierophant sagely, "Either give up that which you fear to lose so it no longer holds any power over you, or consider what you will still have if your fear comes to pass. After all," the Hierophant continues, "if you did lose all you'd built, you would still keep the experience and knowledge that you've gained up to this point, wouldn't you?"
This surprisingly pragmatic advise releases the Fool from his fear, and he is able exit out of the sanctuary and face the world's challenges once again. -> reminds me of his relationship with Godo, who is very 'clearminded' about what Guts is living through.

Lovers : The Fool comes to a cross-roads, filled with energy, confidence and purpose, knowing exactly where he wants to go and what he wants to do. And comes to a dead stop. A flowering tree marks the path he wants to take, the one he's been planning on taking. But standing before a fruit tree marking the other path is a woman. He's met and had relationships with women before, some far more beautiful and alluring. But she is different. Seeing her, he feels as though he's just been shot in the heart with cupid's arrow, so shocking, so painful is his "recognition" of her. As he speaks with her, the feeling intensifies; like finding a missing part of himself, a part he's been searching for his life long. It is clear that she feels the same about him. They finish each others sentences, think the same thoughts. It is as if an Angel above had introduced their souls to each other. Though it was his plan to follow the path of the flowering tree, and though it will cause some trouble for him to bring this woman with him, to go somewhere else entirely, the Fool knows he dare not leave her behind. Like the fruit tree, she will fulfill him. No matter how divergent from his original intent, she is his future. He chooses her, and together they head down a whole new road. -> Guts is back to the Hawks and he chooses to live his life with Casca. They have a future to build, a dangerous road to take together.

Chariot : The Fool is close to completing what he set out to create long ago, back when the Magician revealed those tools to him. But enemies are now standing in his way, devious human enemies, bad circumstances, even confusion in his own mind. There's no more forward momentum; he feels he is fighting just to stay where he is.
It is here that he comes across a charioteer, standing in his gold and silver chariot, his black and white steeds at rest. "You seem a victorious warrior," the Fool remarks. "Tell me, what is the best way to defeat an enemy?" The Charioteer nods out at the ocean. "Have you ever been swimming in the water and been trapped in that tide which pulls you out to sea? If you try to swim forward, head-on, you go nowhere. You swim forward, the tide pulls you back and, if you tire yourself out, you drown. The only way to win without sapping all your energy is to swim parallel to shore, and come in slowly, diagonally. So, too, when fighting in a chariot. You win by coming up alongside that which you wish to defeat." The warrior nods to his beasts. "Your steeds keep the wheels turning, but it is your control and direction that brings victory. Dark and light, they must be made to draw in harmony, under your guidance."
The Fool is impressed and inspired. He thinks he now knows how to win his own war. He thanks the warrior, but before he leaves, the warrior stays the Fool, "One thing more," he says, "no victory can be won unless you have unwavering confidence in your cause. And remember this above all, victory is not the end, it is the beginning." -> this one makes me think of the ime when they go back to Wyndam to free Griffith, fight Baakiraka and Midland soldiers, then he meets Wild and hears Zoddo.

Strength : The Fool, victorious over his enemies, is feeling arrogant, powerful, even vengeful. There is a hot passion in him that he can barely control. It is in this state that he comes across a maiden struggling with a lion. Running to help, he arrives in time to see her gently but firmly shut the lion's mouth! In fact, the beast, which seemed so wild and fierce a moment ago, is now completely at her command.
Amazed, the Fool asks her, "How did you do that?" One hand on the lion's mane, she answers, "Will power. Any beast, no matter how wild, will back down before a superior will." At that moment, the Maiden meets the Fool's eyes; though sanity and young, her look is knowing and filled with great power. "Likewise," she says to him, "there are many unworthy impulses inside us. It is not wrong to have them. But it is wrong to let them control us. We are human, not beast, and we can command such energy, use them for higher purposes." His rage quieted, the Fool nods, enlightened, and walks away knowing that it wasn't only the lion who was tamed this day by a Maiden's pure and innocent strength. -> well, imo, its the time when Guts tries to help Griffith, then this one summons the God Hand and becomes Femto to serve higher purposes. The difference is Griffith isnt quite a pure innocent Maiden (tho it could look like ) and Guts feels just defeated rather than quited.

Hermit : After a long and busy lifetime, building, creating, loving, hating, fighting, compromising, failing, succeeding, the Fool feels a profound need to retreat. In a small, rustic home deep in the woods, he hides, reading, cleaning, organizing, resting or just thinking. But every night at dusk he head out, traveling across the bare, autumnal landscape. He carries only a staff and a lantern.
It is during these restless walks from dusk till dawn, peering at and examining whatever takes his fancy, that he sees and realizes things he's missed, about himself and the world. It is as if the secret corners in his head were being slowly illuminated, corners he never knew existed. In a way, he has become the Fool again; as in the beginning, he goes wherever inspiration leads him. But as the Fool, his staff rested on his shoulder, carrying unseen his pack. The Fool was like the pack, whatever it was he could be was wrapped up, unknown. The Hermit's staff leans out before him, not behind. And it carries a lantern, not a pack. The Hermit is like the lantern, illuminated from within by all he is. -> Guts retreats to Godo's mine after his Black Swordsman era, he realizes how much he misses Casca and all the old era of the Hawks, in the meantime he realizes he has changed and has lost some part of himself.

Wheel of fortune : From out of hiding comes the Fool, into the sunlight, as if being pulled up from some low, dark point on a wheel. It is time for a change. Staff in hand, he heads back out into the world, expecting nothing. But, strangely, things seem to happen to him as the hours go by, good things. Wandering by water wheel a woman offers him a drink in a golden chalice, and then urges him to keep the cup, just because she likes him; as he wanders by a windmill, he stops to watch a young man swinging a sword; when he expresses his admiration of the weapon, the young man presses it into his hand, insisting that he take it.
And finally, when he comes upon a rich merchant sitting in a wagon, right over one of the wheels, the man hands him a bag of money. "I like giving away money," explains the Merchant, "and I decided, just randomly, that the tenth person who walked past me today would get this money. You're the tenth." The Fool hardly thought he could still be surprised, but he is. It is as if everything good that he ever did in his life is being paid back to him, three-fold. All luck this day is his. -> well, its not that GOOD day for Guts, but his meetings with Skully, Luka, Isidro and Farnese are fresh, they mean he's through a deep changing of his life.

Hey, the 11 firts are made, i'll do another post for the 11 latter...
hope you find it interesting ^^
Guil



« Last Edit: December 08, 2003, 11:02:03 AM by Guil Malalanus »

Offline xechnao

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Re:Berserk thru Major Arcana
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2003, 02:09:15 PM »
Hmmm,
still haven't read it all but just a thought.
I have no experience with Tarot and I don't know what Major Arcana is about, which it might be necessary to get your point, but from what I know dealing the cards of Tarot should be the answer of Karma's status, right?
In BERSERK if Skully is right, Karma is a spiral.
Dealing and redealing the cards could exclusivelly give an effect like that?
« Last Edit: December 07, 2003, 02:19:57 PM by xechnao »
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline Franz

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Re:Berserk thru Major Arcana
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2003, 07:24:23 PM »
These are the same tarot's in the 3rd generation story of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, each stand is named after a tarot card. :D
in loving memory of the :giggity: emoticon

Offline *Gyom*

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Re:Berserk thru Major Arcana
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2003, 10:59:07 AM »
Hmmm,
still haven't read it all but just a thought.
I have no experience with Tarot and I don't know what Major Arcana is about, which it might be necessary to get your point, but from what I know dealing the cards of Tarot should be the answer of Karma's status, right?
In BERSERK if Skully is right, Karma is a spiral.
Dealing and redealing the cards could exclusivelly give an effect like that?

Major Arcana are the Trumps in the tarot cards, that is to say the fool, plus the 21 trumps. There is a story behind it, and a meaning wich is used by a reader to a querent. Besides, tarot is also used in card game without the divination stuff (i'm quite into the game thing ). Tarot has come in Europe by the 15th century mainly in Italy and south of France, that's why I think moreover that it could fit the Berserk world.
Plus, since Schierke and Flora are into the story, some elements of Qaballah are put into Berserk. And Tarot has some kaballistic influence.

Yes, karma is a spiral. Skully knows it. And he's the "magician", that is to say, there is indeed mist around him, Guts is astonished by the guy who seems to know everything. As the sentence from Aeclictic Tarot site says, did the magician create the tools [those which are useful to the Fool to lead his life], or were they already in the pack ?
What I understand of it is Guts is similar to Skullknight. Except for one thing which makes the thing being no circle but a spiral. Guts has met Skully, and I don't think Skully ever had the opportunity to meet a predecessor.

Guil

Offline xechnao

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Re:Berserk thru Major Arcana
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2003, 11:49:26 AM »
Guts is Skully yes, but not only.
I believe that Skully is the figure of death as I' ve developed in another thread over here.
But to me now Guts is the avatar of both death and survival. He was saved by Skully during the eclipse with whom I believe holds the same part and role regarding Karma but he was also saved by Zodd the immortal which is the one that Death cannot catch. So Skully gave something to Guts but also Zodd did. So the way I see it for Guts the magician that deals is Karma itself and not just Skully*. And obviously Guts is in the Karma as being part of it. So one cannot answer the question
"did the magician create the tools [those which are useful to the Fool to lead his life], or were they already in the pack ?"
because it concludes to be the same thing. Or more correctly two factors of the same mathematical equation, or even more generally two linked factors of the same system.


*This distinction to show that Skully has another role than being the magician. In other words Skully for Guts is not the magician (for Guts Skully is yet a tool). Eventually, Guts, indirectly has this info of Karma being a spiral regarding the relation with the magician that deals the Karma.



"Plus, since Schierke and Flora are into the story, some elements of Qaballah are put into Berserk. And Tarot has some kaballistic influence."

Now this I do not understand. I don't know what Qaballah is but the way you put it seems to be a theory that describes magic like the one we have seen in BERSERK. Ok Tartot may have some kaballistic influence but that doesn't mean that Qaballah also has to have Tarot influence. Ahhh, too much confusion. Tilt. I am sorry I can't help in this matter more.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2003, 11:59:36 AM by xechnao »
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!