Author Topic: Puck, Rebirth, and Elfhelm's Ruler  (Read 6679 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 2Rivers1Dragon

  • Of the World
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm worse than a llama!
Puck, Rebirth, and Elfhelm's Ruler
« on: December 08, 2003, 11:58:06 PM »
   It’s common knowledge that European mythology has had a great deal of influence on Berserk.  For the past few days, I’ve tried to find a connection to Puck and Elfhelm in order to support one of my insane theories  :).  What I’ve found out  is that the equivalent to Puck and the elves can be found in Celtic mythology.  These creatures are a sub species of fairies called pillywiggins.  I know this since they fit the physical description of Puck (small winged creatures with human-like characteristics).  Further proof comes from the fact that their settlements can be found in fields of flowers near an oak tree.  In the Lost Children arc, Puck says, “A long time ago there was an elf village here” (Vol.6 Ch.203 p.133).  The place that he’s talking about has an oak tree among a field of flowers (coincidence?). All this speculation is intended to piece together certain things about Elfhelm.  Puck has already said that, “Elfhelm is a utopia floating on the western sea.  Flowers are blooming everywhere, the birds are always chirping musical tunes, and the elves are always dancing.  Spring lasts the whole year round.  It’s an elven paradise” (Vol.23 Ch.187 p.20). This leads me to believe that it is the thriving capital of the elves/pillywiggins.  Course, I can only speculate since Puck has been increasingly vague with his reasons for leaving.
   So if Elfhelm’s a capital than who is the ruler?  From what I’ve gathered, the lead candidate is a goddess by the name of Ariel who the elve’s/pillywiggin’s queen in Celtic Myth.  Here is a pic I found of her.

             She fits the Gothic look of the Berserk world.  What I’ve been trying to figure out is what role she may play in the story.  The most obvious answer is that she is the wind goddess.  Of course her power to keep Elfhelm free of the evils of the outside world put her on the same level as God hand members.  No doubt Schierke will talk to Ariel since she only grants audiences with humans adept at meditation and astral travel (Schierke’s good at that  :)).  This wind goddess may have a way for Gut’s to surpass his physical limits.  
   The rest of this theory speculates over Puck’s death and Casca’s rebirth.  Most people seem to believe that Griffith no longer cares about Guts, but I feel that he sees Guts as his only friend.  Griffith: “A friend, in my mind, is someone who is my equal” (Vol.6 Ch.6 P.132). Getting the beast to take over Guts’ body would be a perfect way to make Guts Griffith’s equal power wise.  How will Griffith accomplish this though?  Simple, he’ll kill Casca.  Griffith will eventually either kill Casca or mortally wound her.  It is just inevitable in Berserk.  This will make Guts go off the deep end allowing the beast to take over.  Guts will leave the party and pursue Griffith full time afterwards.  His opposition to Griffith in this form will only further raise the public’s view of Griffith as their savior and Guts as their destructor.  Casca will be revived but at a heavy price.  Puck will have to give his life in order to save her.  The full potential of the elve’s/pillywiggin’s healing abilities are not fully known in Berserk.  In Celtic myth, they are the representatives of spring.  Spring is the season of new life and rebirth.  So it seems perfectly logical to assume that Puck will bring about the rebirth of a major character (Casca or Guts), but he’ll no doubt have to sacrifice his own life in order to heal a mortal wound or bring someone back from death.  A reborn Casca would no doubt recover from her current state of insanity.  Once again, I know I don’t have tons of facts to back this theory up, but the ones I do have point to this path.  Of course parts of it are more fan fiction than theory, but I’d appreciate hearing anyone’s input.  I got my Celtic myth info from the following sites:http://www.telepathicmedia.com/encyclopedia/frsoz.html
http://faerie.monstrous.com/faerie_n-z.htm#_Toc13224828

Offline Uriel

  • 天下無敵者
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2045
  • Karma: 41
  • Gender: Male
  • This journey isn't ov--AARGH!
Re:Puck, Rebirth, and Elfhelm's Ruler
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2003, 12:11:35 AM »
Hey, that's a good collection of information! You never know, but Miura might use that Ariel wentch... she does look kinda creepy though....  :-\ Beside, we already have a rough idea about how the Queen of Elfhelm will look like. Don't we, peulla? :P

Griffith will eventually either kill Casca or mortally wound her.
[/center]
He already has mortally wounded her...
« Last Edit: December 09, 2003, 12:32:04 AM by Uriel »

Offline 2Rivers1Dragon

  • Of the World
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm worse than a llama!
Re:Puck, Rebirth, and Elfhelm's Ruler
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2003, 12:18:08 AM »
Hey, that's a good collection of information! You never know, but Miura might use that Ariel wentch... she does look kinda creepy though....  :-\[/center]
He already has mortally wounded her...
Too true.  I forgot about the eclipse.  I should of just said that he'll kill her.  The only reason I put that thing about the mortal wound is cause I don't know the limits of Puck's healing ability.  Course Griffith could always attack Casca again to bring the beast out of Guts completely.

Offline xechnao

  • The Board's Troll Boy
  • Of the Vortex
  • ****
  • Posts: 1286
  • Karma: 0
Re:Puck, Rebirth, and Elfhelm's Ruler
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2003, 12:55:58 AM »
This may also sound insane but it is a possiblity. The theory that Puck is bluffing. I know, when he talked about it to Guts, Puck's eyes seemed most sincere but even bluffing can't be a bad idea for helping Guts either. Why? Because of the sea. Guts and Casca need to be held away from places that evil spirits may reside. What if they were in the open sea on a boat? If this is possible indeed to work Guts could change profession and become a fisherman or even a mariner. Only if Casca could heal her self while on their voyage (it would be dangerous of her stay on a boat while on her actual condition). Don't know, if Guts is kind with her it might work till they arrive over there.
Ok, please have mercy now (it was only a joke).
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline puella

  • Gourmet Elf
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2367
  • Karma: 696
  • Gender: Female
  • Popopopopopopopo!
Re:Puck, Rebirth, and Elfhelm's Ruler
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2003, 07:52:36 AM »
   It’s common knowledge that European mythology has had a great deal of influence on Berserk.  For the past few days, I’ve tried to find a connection to Puck and Elfhelm in order to support one of my insane theories  :).

Ho~ Theory on the great character, Puck! awesome! 8)

Quote
The rest of this theory speculates over Puck’s death and Casca’s rebirth.  Most people seem to believe that Griffith no longer cares about Guts, but I feel that he sees Guts as his only friend.  Griffith: “A friend, in my mind, is someone who is my equal” (Vol.6 Ch.6 P.132). Getting the beast to take over Guts’ body would be a perfect way to make Guts Griffith’s equal power wise.  How will Griffith accomplish this though?  Simple, he’ll kill Casca.  Griffith will eventually either kill Casca or mortally wound her.  It is just inevitable in Berserk.  This will make Guts go off the deep end allowing the beast to take over.  Guts will leave the party and pursue Griffith full time afterwards.  His opposition to Griffith in this form will only further raise the public’s view of Griffith as their savior and Guts as their destructor.  Casca will be revived but at a heavy price.  Puck will have to give his life in order to save her.  The full potential of the elve’s/pillywiggin’s healing abilities are not fully known in Berserk.  In Celtic myth, they are the representatives of spring.  Spring is the season of new life and rebirth.  So it seems perfectly logical to assume that Puck will bring about the rebirth of a major character (Casca or Guts), but he’ll no doubt have to sacrifice his own life in order to heal a mortal wound or bring someone back from death.  A reborn Casca would no doubt recover from her current state of insanity.

Sacrifice Puck's life to regain Casca? :o No! No way! >:( >:(

*** after taking it easy a little bit

Well, I always think Puck is the most survivable character in berserk. Even if all the members of Guts band die, Puck will survive. He's such a character, I think.
See how good he's been doing with his survival skill. ;D



« Last Edit: December 10, 2003, 08:24:37 AM by puella »

Offline Fishbomb

  • Of the Nexus
  • ***
  • Posts: 726
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Female
  • Fear the slightly white swordsman!
Re:Puck, Rebirth, and Elfhelm's Ruler
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2003, 10:05:59 AM »
   The rest of this theory speculates over Puck’s death and Casca’s rebirth.  Most people seem to believe that Griffith no longer cares about Guts, but I feel that he sees Guts as his only friend.  Griffith: “A friend, in my mind, is someone who is my equal” (Vol.6 Ch.6 P.132). Getting the beast to take over Guts’ body would be a perfect way to make Guts Griffith’s equal power wise.  How will Griffith accomplish this though?  Simple, he’ll kill Casca.  

Well, interesting theory, just have one comment...

I don't think Griffith will have to kill Casca to make G.attsu go off the deep end. I think it would be enough if Casca either decided to join Griffith, or turned out to be more happy with him than with G.attsu. She wouldn't even have to get her mind back (id she did, she would most likely want to kick Griffith's ass.)

Could that happen? Yes. Griffith has already saved Casca once, and Casca showed no sense of panicking when confronted with him, if anything she seemed happy and longing to be with him. Whether that is a case of them having any 'mother/son' connection, or whether it is a residue of the bond that they shared before the eclipse, that I can't tell.

For Griffith to take G.attsu's place as her protector would be as hard a blow to his self esteem as anything I think.
Visit the home of the Skaven!

The UnderEmpire always welcomes new rats into the warm comfy tunnels. Join the online campaign, trade painting tips or find that perfect sneaky tactic to defeat your opponent.

Rattsu, Member of the Council of Thirteen

http://s6.invisionfree.com/The_UnderEmpire/

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18432
  • Karma: 634
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re:Puck, Rebirth, and Elfhelm's Ruler
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2003, 10:11:40 AM »
Casca showed no sense of panicking when confronted with him, if anything she seemed happy and longing to be with him.

You seem to forget about the brand. She felt pain, and I don't think she'd endure that for long, not saying about all of Griffith's demon army being nearby.

Offline Fishbomb

  • Of the Nexus
  • ***
  • Posts: 726
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Female
  • Fear the slightly white swordsman!
Re:Puck, Rebirth, and Elfhelm's Ruler
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2003, 07:28:00 PM »
You seem to forget about the brand. She felt pain, and I don't think she'd endure that for long, not saying about all of Griffith's demon army being nearby.

Ah! Yeah, right, forgot about that...

Although didn't they get the brands partially sealed lately?
Visit the home of the Skaven!

The UnderEmpire always welcomes new rats into the warm comfy tunnels. Join the online campaign, trade painting tips or find that perfect sneaky tactic to defeat your opponent.

Rattsu, Member of the Council of Thirteen

http://s6.invisionfree.com/The_UnderEmpire/

Offline xechnao

  • The Board's Troll Boy
  • Of the Vortex
  • ****
  • Posts: 1286
  • Karma: 0
Re:Puck, Rebirth, and Elfhelm's Ruler
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2003, 07:33:51 PM »
But Griffith wanted to eliminate Flora, the one that did this job.
Maybe because he wanted to do this himself thus Casca could trust him more?
Hmmm, maybe not.


Don't know but I don't see Griffith with Casca. This would be too predictable and would rather turn Guts desperatelly sad than Berserk. I prefer the theory of Guts falling in love with somebody else if something is to change but you never know.

« Last Edit: December 10, 2003, 07:45:18 PM by xechnao »
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18432
  • Karma: 634
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re:Puck, Rebirth, and Elfhelm's Ruler
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2003, 09:11:57 PM »
Although didn't they get the brands partially sealed lately?

Schierke did weaken the brand but it was just for a short time, so it doesn't really matter, and it was more against spirits at night than apostles, not to mention Griffith himself.

Slann removed Guts' seal like it was nothing, and the real powerful talisman Flora made is carved in the Berserk's armor, so it changes nothing for Casca.

Offline 2Rivers1Dragon

  • Of the World
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm worse than a llama!
Re:Puck, Rebirth, and Elfhelm's Ruler
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2003, 12:47:01 AM »
Griffith taking Casca for himself.  Perhaps, but it's not likely.  This would only further strengthen Guts human side.  Miura's been giving plenty of hints about the beast's intent.  Casca's gotta be completely outa the picture for it to take over.  One of the recent chapters showed this when Schierke entered Guts self conscience.  
"Guts - ....who...is this....I know.....
Guts - ....stop....do not touch....
Schierke - Please remember! Her name is Casca
Guts - Cas...ka.....
Schierke - Your name is Guts. The branded swordsman Guts. The one who protects the branded girl." (ch. 239 pg. 6,7).  Casca's the only thing holding Guts back from giving into the beast.  Her death's the easiest way for it to take Guts over.

Offline xechnao

  • The Board's Troll Boy
  • Of the Vortex
  • ****
  • Posts: 1286
  • Karma: 0
Re:Puck, Rebirth, and Elfhelm's Ruler
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2003, 01:13:58 AM »
But if the beast takes over like this Guts will die. It's the same I've been saying before as the desperation of this situation.
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline Miyu

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 381
  • Karma: 1
  • Gender: Female
  • I'm smiling on the inside.
Re:Puck, Rebirth, and Elfhelm's Ruler
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2003, 02:49:07 AM »
But if the beast takes over like this Guts will die. It's the same I've been saying before as the desperation of this situation.

Maybe that's what the Beast wants.  Flora had said that the beherit that Guts carries may be intended for him and many have postulated that the Beast would be Guts apostle form if he were to ever turn into an apostle.  It could be that the Beast wants Casca dead to break that final thread of sanity keeping Guts from breaking down.  If Guts were to be taken to teh threshold of death and driven to the brink of insanity, it would be easier for him to willing accept becoming an apostle, if that's what the Beast is trying to do.

To have Puck as some martyr to save Casca would be very interesting, but right now I can only see him as comic relief and it would make me sad to see him die.   :'(
That's Mrs. Miyu to you!

Offline Smith

Re:Puck, Rebirth, and Elfhelm's Ruler
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2003, 03:53:30 AM »
If Guts were to be taken to teh threshold of death and driven to the brink of insanity, it would be easier for him to willing accept becoming an apostle, if that's what the Beast is trying to do.   :'(

I was wondering why you ppl keep thinking that Guts will turn into Apostle? He was already consider as a sarcrificial offering adn Slann had already mention he was not chosen to be one of them... It look like you guys are desperate to turn Guts into a apostle...
It piss me off when I see weaklings, it make me want to crush them

Offline puella

  • Gourmet Elf
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2367
  • Karma: 696
  • Gender: Female
  • Popopopopopopopo!
Re:Puck, Rebirth, and Elfhelm's Ruler
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2003, 08:16:43 AM »

To have Puck as some martyr to save Casca would be very interesting, but right now I can only see him as comic relief and it would make me sad to see him die.   :'(

I don't think he's just for comic relief.
Remember he's the one who can read Guts' mind and understand him very well, more than any other character of berserk, acutally.
I think it's one the most important roles of him.
So I'd say he's a real supervisor for Guts as he himself often says. 8)

I was wondering why you ppl keep thinking that Guts will turn into Apostle? He was already consider as a sarcrificial offering adn Slann had already mention he was not chosen to be one of them... It look like you guys are desperate to turn Guts into a apostle...

I second that.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2003, 08:36:23 AM by puella »

Offline Sancho Panza

Re:Puck, Rebirth, and Elfhelm's Ruler
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2003, 11:53:42 AM »
I don't think he's just for comic relief.
Remember he's the one who can read Guts' mind and understand him very well, more than any other character of berserk, acutally.
I think it's one the most important roles of him.
So I'd say he's a real supervisor for Guts as he himself often says. 8)

Sure he is, remember the beginning of volume 17 ;D

Offline xechnao

  • The Board's Troll Boy
  • Of the Vortex
  • ****
  • Posts: 1286
  • Karma: 0
Re:Puck, Rebirth, and Elfhelm's Ruler
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2003, 12:19:53 PM »
Maybe that's what the Beast wants.  Flora had said that the beherit that Guts carries may be intended for him and many have postulated that the Beast would be Guts apostle form if he were to ever turn into an apostle.  It could be that the Beast wants Casca dead to break that final thread of sanity keeping Guts from breaking down.  If Guts were to be taken to teh threshold of death and driven to the brink of insanity, it would be easier for him to willing accept becoming an apostle, if that's what the Beast is trying to do.

Ok, let's say that Guts turns into a Beast appostle. After that what does he do? Serve Griffith? No, because he can't do anything! Beast apostle cannot exist because beast equals rage and rage equals insanity. Have you seen the film "after 28 days"? Beast-Guts will propablly die after 50 days of starvation, if he needs to eat, running as much havoc around as possible in the meantime. This is what the Beast apostle normally will do.
Now could Griffith do this just to eliminate the insane apostle and once more look like the saviour and messiah? It could be but it ain't sure he would win. A possible end of Berserk having both die??? No, I don't think so because I don't see why Griffith could take up this risk. Maybe if he grows too bored of his dream and wants to fight a rematch with Guts, but do you think Berserk will evolve like this?
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline Ben

Re:Puck, Rebirth, and Elfhelm's Ruler
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2003, 11:02:35 PM »
      I think this is one of those deals where Miura will throw us a huge curve ball before things could get to that point.  Remember how Griffith acted on the hill of swords?  It just seems to me that he might want to frustrate Guts at the most, because fighting Guts has nothing to do with his dream.  If Griffith does indeed get his kingdom, I think Miura will throw something out there that would stop him from just becoming bored.

      Besides all of that, I think Skully has something planned for Guts in the future; he is far too valuable a tool to him in fighting God Hand to just let him go insane and eventually die.  I also don't think Miura would just let Casca have her memory back and go after Griffith, either; something much darker and morbid would be more like what he's done in the past.


Offline 2Rivers1Dragon

  • Of the World
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm worse than a llama!
Re:Puck, Rebirth, and Elfhelm's Ruler
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2003, 12:11:53 AM »
Opinions on Griffith are always a touchy subject.  From what I've seen, Guts is Griffith's biggest weakness.  I mean during the eclipse Griffith says that Guts was the only person who made him forget his dream.  That statement far outweighs Griffith's comment on the hill of swords.  When he confronted Guts there, it just looked like Griffith was trying to reassure himself that Guts would not deter him from his dream again.  It's more likely that was an attempt to further antagonize Guts(with a tone like "become stronger so you can challenge me").  On a side note, I never meant to imply that the beast is some apostle transformation of Guts.  A ceremony where Guts would have to give into Godhand to become stronger is too out of character for him.  More than likely, the beast is the darkside of Guts persona.  If it takes over Guts won't die.  Probably a small part of his humanity will still exist.  That's why I thought that Casca would have to die for him to go completely Berserk, but if she's revived she can bring him back.

Offline Kart

Re:Puck, Rebirth, and Elfhelm's Ruler
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2003, 04:22:55 AM »
I don't think Guts becoming an apostle (some other kind of demon) out of the question, by his choice or another it may happen something like this might go down.


An intense showdown with Guts almost dying and the beast controlling him, As you said puck understands him and despite how he acts I think Guts care about puck alot, he's probably closer to puck then he is to Casca, and I think puck would give his life for Guts. So what would happen is Guts is losing, the beast takes over and the intense emotion needed to activate the behilt is activated (i don't know if you have to be destined to be an apostle to activate the behilt). Puck dies Guts becomes an apostle.


but yeah griffith probably does consider Guts his only friend because he said "I only consider people who are equal my friends, who will follow their dream even if it involves destroying mine" i don't know if that's an exact quote but something like it.

Offline Majin Tenshi

  • McCoy Golem!
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • The can opener went bye-bye...
Re:Puck, Rebirth, and Elfhelm's Ruler
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2003, 04:40:27 AM »
Miura, the writer of Berserk, says Guts is staying human.  End of story.  
Ok, so I leave and come back....

Offline Aquedesin

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 180
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • See you soon my dear...
Re:Puck, Rebirth, and Elfhelm's Ruler
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2003, 07:02:08 AM »
That's a fucking good answer Majin.

Thou art nothing against the might of the Bloody McCoy!

Offline Kart

Re:Puck, Rebirth, and Elfhelm's Ruler
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2003, 07:04:10 AM »
oh i never heard that, so i guess it was an uneducated opinion.

Offline Smith

Re:Puck, Rebirth, and Elfhelm's Ruler
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2003, 10:02:46 AM »
Guts is staying human..  


With the beast around, it is hard for that to happen... but i will agree with you  ;D
It piss me off when I see weaklings, it make me want to crush them

Offline Miyu

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 381
  • Karma: 1
  • Gender: Female
  • I'm smiling on the inside.
Re:Puck, Rebirth, and Elfhelm's Ruler
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2003, 02:24:35 AM »
Ok, let's say that Guts turns into a Beast appostle. After that what does he do? Serve Griffith? No, because he can't do anything! Beast apostle cannot exist because beast equals rage and rage equals insanity.

Let me back pedal a bit.  I don't think that Guts will turn into an apostle or consciously wants to, but I think the Beast does want him to succumb to those negative emotions.  I should have clarfied that when I posted.  It was merely an attempt at an explaination for why the Beast puts Guts in danger so often.

Quote
Have you seen the film "after 28 days"?
No, so I don't understand the reference.

Quote
but do you think Berserk will evolve like this?

No, that would just be silly.  
That's Mrs. Miyu to you!