Author Topic: Guts the hawk of light?  (Read 3178 times)

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Offline Cryptic

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Guts the hawk of light?
« on: January 14, 2004, 08:51:39 AM »
I was just wondering, does anyone else here think that it could be possible that Guts might be the true "hawk of light"?

Grifith, who was (and always will be IMO) the hawk of darkness, always potrays himself as the heroic saviour of mankind in shining armour atop a big white horse. while in reality he is a cold hearted monster who would sacrifice his own mother to get one step closer to his dream.

so could that mean Guts, who looks scarier than most villians, and who tries to present himself as a sociopathic killer, be the hawk of light?  

Offline King Gaiseric

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Re:Guts the hawk of light?
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2004, 11:47:40 AM »
up to a certain extent he's better than Griffith as a person, but he's in no way a hawk, nor of darkness, nor of light, he's the black swordsman with the black berserker's rage inside of him. plus Griffith followed his dream,in an unconventional way, raped Casca for the hell of it, but still held on to his dream, in fact, minus the slaughter and rape, what he did was the right thing *for him*
if you play among the dead, you shall join their ranks

Offline Schwabe

Re:Guts the hawk of light?
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2004, 06:14:58 PM »
Bastards. especially when one refers within a username as griffith to being the black hawk.
think not in terms that white is good and holy and black in sinful like a simpleton.

Griffith is the white hawk who will save the lands from the plauges of war and the kushans.

Guts will be the black hawk wreaking havoc across the land in pursuit of his goal.

Offline King Gaiseric

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Re:Guts the hawk of light?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2004, 07:02:06 PM »
there is no black or white, only shades of grey
if you play among the dead, you shall join their ranks

Offline Schwabe

Re:Guts the hawk of light?
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2004, 08:04:35 PM »
there is no black or white, only shades of grey


*sigh*

Offline Smith

Re:Guts the hawk of light?
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2004, 11:21:46 PM »
Guts will be the black hawk wreaking havoc across the land in pursuit of his goal.

Actually ,the Black Hawk has nothing to do with Guts. People mistake him for the dark hawk.

*Sigh*
It piss me off when I see weaklings, it make me want to crush them

Offline Schwabe

Re:Guts the hawk of light?
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2004, 02:16:43 AM »
;)

my point is that legends are fulfilled by the onlookers.

farnese and those with her made guts the black hawk in their introduction.

Offline Cryptic

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Re:Guts the hawk of light?
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2004, 06:24:23 AM »
Quote
Griffith is the white hawk who will save the lands from the plauges of war and the kushans.

well im sure if i was the Anti-Christ I would prefer to run around having everyone thinking I was the true saviour of mankind too :)

besides we all know that Grifith is above things like showing people false visons, using people as pawns, and sending death squads after little old ladies  ::)

Offline Ben

Re:Guts the hawk of light?
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2004, 04:12:10 AM »
I think the bigger question is whether darkness and light really mean anything, considering that Skull Knight doesn't really seem to care.  I mean, Skully seems to know more about all of this than anyone aside from God Hand and Idea, so you would think that if it really mattered he would have made a distinction. Realistically, Guts has killed so many people and done enough deviant
things to make me wonder if he is really any better than Griffith.  I mean, no one in a major role in Berserk could be viewed as truly good.  

This reminds of Army of Darkness, "Good, bad, I'm the one with the gun."

Offline Walter

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Re:Guts the hawk of light?
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2004, 03:05:22 PM »
My understanding has been:

The Dark Hawk and White Hawk are the same. Griffith appears as the White Hawk, but is in fact the Dark Hawk.  Guts was mistaken for the Dark Hawk by the H.I.C.K.s in Volume 14. But in fact, it was too early to declare anyone a Dawk Hawk since the White Hawk hadn't yet appeared.

This is mostly evident from Schierke's first big monologue in Chapter 186 (Volume 23).

This is the simplest, and most straightforward way to "solving" the Dark/White Hawk riddle.
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Offline chugoku sensei

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Re:Guts the hawk of light?
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2004, 09:30:16 PM »
Quote
But in fact, it was too early to declare anyone a Dawk Hawk since the White Hawk hadn't yet appeared
So does that mean all those crazy images of this white hawk, especially, when Zodd got his horn taken off, are all just illusion, or false visions?
Gnoh hai zong go si fu, WONG FEI HONG!

Offline Schwabe

Re:Guts the hawk of light?
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2004, 10:29:58 PM »
I don't remember the exact words of the legend, but with griffith's charisma, he is unlikely to be seen as a monster to the populace. Griffith's goal will likely bring about that he does appear to be the savior of the people, wether he is in truth doing them good.        Guts on the other hand is Griffith's opposition, and while griffith has the peoples support...guts doesnt seem to try to hard to make friends. (How bout that one time he used a kid on the tip of his sword as bait so he could kill a bunch of children...I bet they loved that)

In the reality, there is no white and black (although idea would seem to convince you that not only is there no white, everyone and everything is evil).

Offline SexyCharlotte

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Re:Guts the hawk of light?
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2004, 09:29:23 AM »
So does that mean all those crazy images of this white hawk, especially, when Zodd got his horn taken off, are all just illusion, or false visions?

I don't think they are' false ' visions. As I recall iZodd had always been looking for the Ultimate Strong One, and his submission to Griffith Millenium Falcon was that he prostrated himself and as a display of ultimate power, Griffith cut off his horn.  I think that the images/visions are perhaps prophecies, not necessarily illusion. Such as when the dying King of Midland sees the vision where Charlotte, his daughter, is enveloped by the White Hawk's wings...meaning that Griffith still wants her to be his queen.

Visions of the White Hawk in the people of Midland's dreams were stemming from their desire for a savior. ( in Griffith).

On an different note I always thought it was weird how the Zoddo action figures and statues are missing a horn. You would think since the action figures come from the anime only, why would they make a Zoddo with only one horn?

well im sure if i was the Anti-Christ I would prefer to run around having everyone thinking I was the true saviour of mankind too :)

besides we all know that Grifith is above things like showing people false visons, using people as pawns, and sending death squads after little old ladies  ::)

Very true...pure evil often disguises itself in the form of innocence and good.  But I'm not sure if it's Grifith himself sending those false visions as much as it is the people's great desire to want a savior at a point when their land and lives are in such chaos.

I don't remember the exact words of the legend, but with griffith's charisma, he is unlikely to be seen as a monster to the populace. Griffith's goal will likely bring about that he does appear to be the savior of the people, wether he is in truth doing them good.        Guts on the other hand is Griffith's opposition, and while griffith has the peoples support...guts doesnt seem to try to hard to make friends. (How bout that one time he used a kid on the tip of his sword as bait so he could kill a bunch of children...I bet they loved that)

In the reality, there is no white and black (although idea would seem to convince you that not only is there no white, everyone and everything is evil).

I think it was Schierke who also said something about the hawk of darkness leading the 'blind sheep.' The people of Midland are so desperate for a savior they will blind themselves to his true motivations and goals...to rule over them with absolute authority along with the apostles who follow him. I can't say I blame them, after all, look what's happening to their country.

LPL
« Last Edit: January 22, 2005, 01:10:47 PM by Aazealh »
"The heart has its reasons whereof reason knows nothing...." Pascale

Offline Schwabe

Re:Guts the hawk of light?
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2004, 07:43:39 PM »
I think it was Schierke who also said something about the hawk of darkness leading the 'blind sheep.' The people of Midland are so desperate for a savior they will blind themselves to his true motivations and goals...to rule over them with absolute authority along with the apostles who follow him. I can't say I blame them, after all, look what's happening to their country.

perhaps I was wrong then.