Femto/Griffith

yeah i remember it was you who was preaching how evil they are, and now your telling me the hawks copied it from griffths translation eh, if they stole it then it must have been from griffith of skullknight.net because thats who mizar said did it so i suppose so, spare me your bullshit.

oh and for the "im right your wrong" number you did on the end of your post means absolutely nothing, if you want to argue with me and prove me wrong then good i dont mind at all, but im not going to waste my time with you arguing like a year old along with name calling and hawk translation propaganda, you annoy me.

Sparnage said:

it doesnt really matter why but if they were so dodge then how would they be so fucking similar.

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They've had tons of different translators for their volumes, some were good, some not so good. So some volumes were decently translated, and some were not. That's all. And I don't understand why you're suddenly accusing Walter of badmouthing the Hawks now, all he pointed out was that the translations you have were incorrect. It has nothing to do with his personal stance towards the Hawks, so why bring it up?

i have even heard things like they cant even translate themselve steal their ideas from fans and shit. i suppose they club baby seals in their spare time just to be rotten.

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Open your eyes dude, it is a fact that they have used Eirias' translation for Volume 22, all of it. I've also noticed that the translations of a few other volumes were frighteningly similar to the people who have posted translations here. I'm not saying they stole all of their translation from here, but they aren't innocent, that's for sure.

makes perfect sense to me.

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Who cares what makes more sense if it's wrong!

Sparnage said:

i find that a little simplistic.​

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Why waste my time thinking about something that's painfully obvious? Either way dude, I was right from the start. I tell you it's amazing what you learn when you read from the right source! *continues to piss and whistle* ;)

Sparnage said:

yeah i remember it was you who was preaching how evil they are

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Preaching what ? I'm telling the truth, they stole half of their translations, from Eirias, from Puella, and from other people here, it's not really a revelation.

Sparnage said:

and now your telling me the hawks copied it from griffths translation eh, if they stole it then it must have been from griffith of skullknight.net because thats who mizar said did it

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No, he said it was by Olivier Hagué (and it is).

Sparnage said:

oh and for the "im right your wrong" number you did on the end of your post means absolutely nothing, if you want to argue with me and prove me wrong then good i dont mind at all, but im not going to waste my time with you arguing like a year old along with name calling and hawk translation propaganda

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What's the need of arguing with you ? Read the old posts here and try to understand them, that should suffice to make you understand why you're wrong on that point.

The border between worlds ? It's called the Interstice, even heard of that word ? The Hawks simply call it the Hazama because they weren't skilled enough to translate it.

Now why would the ghosts that constantly attack Guts long for a body with a dead soul rather than a body with a soul branded by a fantastic evil power ?

It doesn't make any sense for you ? Well sorry but that's still the way things are and the Hawks translation (that they copied on Walter's own translation, read what he wrote again) is wrong on this.

Sparnage said:

you annoy me.

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Ignorant and cocky idiots like you that aren't even smart enough to correctly read a post annoy me too.

Please be sure you know something next time before doubting what people are telling you.

Mizar said:

Open your eyes dude, it is a fact that they have used Eirias' translation for Volume 22, all of it. I've also noticed that the translations of a few other volumes were frighteningly similar to the people who have posted translations here.

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Now, I don't know about the hawks more that I heard over here and I believe that most propably they are imposters and thieves and corrupted because this is the cheapest thing to do, but saying that translations are similar or identical as an argument sounds to me a bit strange. I mean shouldn't they be identical? I don't know japanese and maybe it is a totally different language than english, totally open and flexible to many interpretation scemes and expressions but if this is not the case how it could be that the translations of a manga should be different?
Actually the point I want to find out is how it must be working:
Is it reasonable to express japanese in english or is it indeed a bit tricky to merit this effect?

xechnao said:

Is it reasonable to express japanese in english or is it indeed a bit tricky to merit this effect?

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Just like you said, it's not so simple. Every translator will use a certain wording, a different vocabular, and will rely on his personnal knowledge to try to make the translation as good as possible.

A part of the translating job that most people tend to ignore is the adaptation, the fact that Saiki for example may choose to change a line to make it more meaningful for westerners.

Basically such "amateurish" translations are very typical and easy to recognize, look how Mizar's translations differ from Graywords'.

Now, the Hawks just copied/pasted some translations, keeping the same wording, the same tone, and often not changing anything.

They sometimes incorporated rough translations before the most basic corrections were applied, and kept them like that.

Such things make their thefts pretty hard to disbelieve, and I never saw one of them daring come and contest it.

I hope that helped you.

The chances of two different translators independently coming up with the exact same translation for a single sentence is already rare, let alone a translation for a whole volume. Everyone uses different words and different grammatical constructions to express something.

[edit]Damn, Aazealh already beat me to it.

Hey, thanks for the replies.
Wow, how stupid I was not to imagine this. I guess, abstractivelly thinking of manga made me think of comic books and simple sentences like the ones you find in Mickey Mouse ;D
But BERSERK is a lot more sophisticated in its "lyrics".
Now I get the whole problem idea because of bad translations and different meanings.
Duh..

Mizar said:

They've had tons of different translators for their volumes, some were good, some not so good. So some volumes were decently translated, and some were not. That's all. And I don't understand why you're suddenly accusing Walter of badmouthing the Hawks now, all he pointed out was that the translations you have were incorrect. It has nothing to do with his personal stance towards the Hawks, so why bring it up?

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im not saying walter was badmouthing the hawks, i was speaking of people saying they do dodgy and inaccurate jobs of translation right? the people around here seem to trust the skullknight.net fans translation moreso which so i compare their translated work to being exactly the same meaning that if they say the hawks work is dodge then so is the peoples here, that was it.

Open your eyes dude, it is a fact that they have used Eirias' translation for Volume 22, all of it. I've also noticed that the translations of a few other volumes were frighteningly similar to the people who have posted translations here. I'm not saying they stole all of their translation from here, but they aren't innocent, that's for sure.

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1) you speak as if they are going around plagerising their work or something, they are not making profit out of this or anything, but because of them a much larger amont of people who dont have access if it do. i dont think i would have discovered the manga if they didnt.
2) from what i have read between the translations between here and the berserk work it is quiet different,
3) on the hawks forums they are always talking about their status with who is translating what for whatever, when it comes to either berserk or other stuff they do so if you are saying thats a cover for them to sneak around the skullknight forums and take your translations then i find that even harder to believe.
4) petty little squabbles between to related chatrooms its a very common story, we have two major lan partys in our city, and on forums they are always bad mouthing each other making up shit about each other and acting this way for petty reasons, and its the same with skullknight.net and the hawks forums. many arent particually fond of this site either. i personally think its pointless to get all worked up with each other over whatever reason, but some things never change.

these reasons are enough for me personally to not take these comments too seriously, but saying the hawks are evil seem to be the primary opposing argument.

Who cares what makes more sense if it's wrong!

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yeah thats the main answer i have been getting more or less since this started.
i said earlier that im flexible and i meant it, i said its possible that im wrong that the original quote was not in berserk, but since i have not heard too much i can take seriously or be far from hard evidence to make me suggest otherwise. i have no reason to belive its true and yet uriel and aazealh act like they there is nothing suggesting they are wrong when they are simpily presuming they are right aside rumours, blind belief and one sided arguments. if you are all so desperate to make your point then give some reliable evidence, preferably from a reliable source. in other words saying im wrong is not an answer.

Aazealh said:

Preaching what ? I'm telling the truth, they stole half of their translations, from Eirias, from Puella, and from other people here, it's not really a revelation.

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The border between worlds ? It's called the Interstice, even heard of that word ?
The Hawks simply call it the Hazama because they weren't skilled enough to translate it.

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thats the stupidest thing i have heard all day.

Now why would the ghosts that constantly attack Guts long for a body with a dead soul rather than a body with a soul branded by a fantastic evil power ?

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christ, you didnt even understand what i said before, yet you open your mouth. his soul is not dead and i have no idea where you pulled that from. i said the spiritual world considers him dead and yet he did not die, so thats why he is between realitys and thats why evil spirits find him like a light in darkness, get it?

Ignorant and cocky idiots like you that aren't even smart enough to correctly read a post annoy me too.
Please be sure you know something next time before doubting what people are telling you.

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bitch bitch bitch! shit if i annoy you so then quit fucking posting, and once again that is not a real answer to me thats a belief.

Sparnage said:

thats the stupidest thing i have heard all day.

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Hazama, the border between two worlds, is translated into interstice in English but BOH just left it non-translated. I think Aazealh meant that.
But why do you think it's stupid?

i said the spiritual world considers him dead and yet he did not die, so thats why he is between realitys and thats why evil spirits find him like a light in darkness, get it?

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I wish you can get it.

And Sparnage, I don't want to see somebody stick to bad translation here any more. So please try to get what other people are trying to say to you.

Sparnage said:

saying the hawks are evil seem to be the primary opposing argument. yeah thats the main answer i have been getting more or less since this started.

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Well I just gave you a correct translation and you got all bitchy, you're the one that started the whole Hawks vs others thing.

Now it seems like you overlooked all the wrong statements you made in your previous posts that I pointed out, anything to say on that ?

Sparnage said:

i said earlier that im flexible and i meant it, i said its possible that im wrong that the original quote was not in berserk

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It's not possible it's a fact, people here told you it was, now are you flexible ? Because you sure don't seem so.

Sparnage said:

i have no reason to belive its true and yet uriel and aazealh act like they there is nothing suggesting they are wrong when they are simpily presuming they are right aside rumours

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I'm not presuming, otherwise I would't have post. What's the part you don't get ?

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings by saying the Hawks take some of their translations from other people, and that half of their work isn't correct, but that's just the truth.

Sparnage said:

if you are all so desperate to make your point then give some reliable evidence, preferably from a reliable source.

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You're the one that looks desperate here, not taking what 5 people are telling you, including the site's administrator.

You talked about blind belief and reliable sources ? Well let me tell you: stop believing the Hawks are almighty because they're really not a reliable source.

If you can't take it, it's too bad, I'm sorry but I won't waste my time repeating it, just get the text translations from the people here and compare them with your scanlations.

Sparnage said:

in other words saying im wrong is not an answer.

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It's more like a fact.

Sparnage said:

thats the stupidest thing i have heard all day.

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Is that so ? Then I guess you must ignore what the Interstice is.

And you still didn't check any other sources that the ones you have ? What a blind believer!

Sparnage said:

christ, you didnt even understand what i said before, yet you open your mouth. his soul is not dead and i have no idea where you pulled that from.

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Sparnage said:

guts is dead in the spirit world because the moment he was branded his fate was sealed

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Sparnage said:

you could say his soul is as dead as those that try and take his body.

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I guess I pulled it from here. You don't remember what you said yesterday and yet you open your mouth, what a pity.

Sparnage said:

and once again that is not a real answer to me thats a belief.

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I gave you a correct translation, various people pointed out you were wrong, all of them knowing more about Berserk and/or Japanese that you do.

It should be enough to make you realize there's no explanation needed anymore here.

this is going nowhere. just listen to me and answer the question; what evidence to you have to suggest that the hawks translation of skull knights speech in volume 13, chapter 12 is wrong.

youll have to get over if i dont seem flexible. im hearing basically "no your wrong" and you post a translation that is different and that is satisfactory.

do you think if you chuck some other translation under my nose from some fan that would be satisfactory as evidence? im sorry but your sadly mistaken.

after all the arguing i have been hearing no one has yet answer the question with any reliable evidence. i dont think im asking for much yet you speak to me like its as documented as osama bin laden's confession video.

do you think it makes any differents if 5 people or 50 are arguing, all that means i would expect you to be certain and be able to prove it with something solid, so prove it.

Sparnage said:

this is going nowhere.

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Yeah, obviously you're not faking your idiocy.

Sparnage said:

what evidence to you have to suggest that the hawks translation of skull knights speech in volume 13, chapter 12 is wrong.

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The evidence I have is that I am in possession of the original manga by Kentarô Miura, and that the line in question by Dokuro no Kishi isn't the one you used.

Ranemaka's translation is correct, I showed it to you, I can't do much more.

Sparnage said:

no one has yet answer the question with any reliable evidence.

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What evidence do you need? Take Japanese lessons, buy the original manga, and read that line yourself since you won't believe what other people are saying.

I'll drop the arguing on that topic since you're not getting it anyway.

dont make promises you cant keep.
whats to get? you are so certain but you cant prove dick. if you expect me to take the word of a obnoxious gimp without any proof but his word then thats really not my problem.

Sparnage, I really thought you were smarter than this, but it seems I was wrong. I guess your stubbornness has made you blind.

The original source of this translation you like so much (Walter) already came forward and said that his translations contained errors. The Hawks have nothing to do with them since they just blindly copied these faulty translations afterwards for their scanlations. Now there were also several people in this thread who can read Japanese (including myself) and they were able to confirm that these translations were indeed incorrect. Now what more proof do you need? Do you want Miura to call you personally and tell you that you're wrong or something?

Didn't this same exact argument occur when Sparnage first registered? ::)

ok then, how about this;

if thats true then that means walters original source must still exist somewhere with the date when he posted it, if that is true and the hawks copied it shortly after that but between the time of his original translation and when he fixed it up, right? after all if they saw the updated version then they would grab that instead and this argument would never have happened. i think that would make sense seeing the hawks dont really take more then a week to translate from when the actual volume is realised in japan.

and of course it would have to be pretty much word to word, or it wouldnt count i mean if they happen to have similar bits and both happen to say that then it sounds more like paranoia. its easy to for translations to be similar to each other with such small amounts of dialogue at one time, the dark horse version of berserk volume 1 was pretty similar to many unofficial translations of it, or are those filthy bastards ripping off fan translations as well?

it that was proven then i think think that would be enough evidence to belive otherwise, what do you think? you must realise you are making some pretty steep accusations, so i think that would be enough to prove they were stealing it from here.

Neo Genesis said:

Didn't this same exact argument occur when Sparnage first registered? ::)

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part of it.

Neo Genesis said:

Didn't this same exact argument occur when Sparnage first registered? ::)

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Haha, you're right, he was the one who said Guts should be spelled like "Gattttsu" because "the band of the hawks" aka "the greatest manga translators in the world" said so, and we were of course just a stupid bunch of fans who's words shouldn't be taken seriously. Yeah, Sparnage is so incredibly flexible and openminded it just blows my mind.

actually i supported the idea be spelt any way we knew it to be rather then be controlled to spell it the same way. that doesnt sound open minded, quiet the opposite and there are others that think that.

Sparnage said:

actually i supported the idea be spelt any way we knew it to be rather then be controlled to spell it the same way. that doesnt sound open minded, quiet the opposite and there are others that think that.

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Heh, you gotta appreciate Griffith's sense of humor. ;D

Anyway, you saw what happened after he decided to play the nice guy and lifted the ban.

You guys are arguing over a problem that has alredy been proven wrong... Sparnage, are you arguing because you really belive that? Or is it just for your pride?

Sparnage said:

and of course it would have to be pretty much word to word, or it wouldnt count i mean if they happen to have similar bits and both happen to say that then it sounds more like paranoia. its easy to for translations to be similar to each other with such small amounts of dialogue at one time,

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Are you serious? You can't even tell blatant rip-off and just translation of the same text?

Of course there are too many translations which were stolen by BOH and no need to take other translator's work as an example. Because even my translation had been ripped off. even the chapter titles I translated, word to word.

But I don't feel like showing them to you because you don't seem to listen to other people here and I think it's already too much done for you.

As I said above, I don't want to see some people stick to bad translations here any more because me and some of the members here, have been fucking tired and bored with this.

actually im curious and would like to find out if it was true or not, but such strong accusations are not a light matter so forgive me if i dont sway easy.

mizar spoke like no proof was good enough for me, but just before i met the opposition half way by suggesting to prove whether they stole from them or not, volume 13, chapter 12 in particular as that was the point but nothing has been said about it. i thought it was a pretty rational way to find out but i guess mizar doesnt think so.

Since I'm such a good minded person, I'll give you a "proof" you can understand. Here's Eirias' translation of Volume 22, compare it with your scanlations, it's the same word by word.

It's not the specific part you were talking about, but I hope it should be enough for you to understand what a 5yo child would have already, and that you won't ask for every original translation, because noone here's gonna trace them all for you.

Now will you believe that the translation you used a while ago was wrong, or should someone take pictures of a Japanese/English dictionnary for you ?

Sparnage said:

actually im curious and would like to find out if it was true or not, but such strong accusations are not a light matter so forgive me if i dont sway easy.

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Yet you won't even look into that yourself, so other people have to literally give you what you could find by yourself with just comparing what's in the translation section of that site and your scanlations.

Aazealh said:

Yet you won't even look into that yourself, so other people have to literally give you what you could find by yourself with just comparing what's in the translation section of that site and your scanlations.

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the translations i saw were definetly different. the date on that translation site was late 2002, im have no idea when they realised volume 22, but different but that is undoubtably the same.