Who was the first apostle?

SexyCharlotte · January 26, 2004

Who do you think was the first apostle? Do you think ( or is it possible) that there were any apostles during King Gaiseric's reign?

xechnao · January 26, 2004

Lady Sexy Charlotte said:
Who do you think was the first apostle? Do you think ( or is it possible) that there were any apostles during King Gaiseric's reign?

Because of the Hague bot and the assume-fact triggers, in any frase that can make sense to add "I assume", consider it allready.

Anyway, there were no apostles during King Gaiserick's reign and this to accomodate my recent theory of the course of events.
Again, the last apostle was the egg apostle, as this makes more sense with his role (by the way he confired that five angels came as opposed to four).
I want to think that two of the oldest powers that have been serving the Idea plan around could be the influence behind the holy chain/order, followed by apostle Ganishka. The first is something vague to us but Ganishka definatelly is not.
This feeling I have because of their roles again*. By the way Ganishka has allready stated that he is the "devil", and devil is the oldest (or one of the oldest) among all known Apostles, Saints and the like.
From various points of the manga, Zodd has the more chance of being the oldest apostle among Locus, Wyald, Grunbeld, Snake Captain, Snail Count and Roshinu. About Irvine I have no clue. This is as far as I can go for now.

*In some religions, the highest priest is considered the direct representative of God, or a God himself. Ganishka, for example could have been alive for years in front of the eyes of his people if their mythology is like this, but again the general that Griffith killed, when he was talking with Shilatt, he didn't give that spirit. On the other hand, Shilatt's family, who I believe have a role as that of CIA ;D, has been exiled for years and this Ganishka could have been the reason.

PsychoJavexx · January 26, 2004

Why bother making theories and speculations? Pay attention to what the story has told, and not what happened in "real life."

The Egg apostle said there was 5, because he was probably made after Griffith turned into Femto (the fifth God Hand). And we don't know what destroyed Gaiseric's empire, but as far as anyone can guess, it was probably some form of God Hand (maybe different members), since there were a ton of branded bodies at the bottom of the Tower of Rebirth (is this the right tower, the one where Griffith was tortured?). But we don't know that either...

Olivier_Hague · January 26, 2004

xechnao said:
From various points of the manga, Zodd has the more chance of being the oldest apostle among Locus, Wyald, Grunbeld, Snake Captain, Snail Count and Roshinu.

Well, we know for a fact that Zoddo is older than the Count and Rochine, and we can pretty much assume than he's also older than Locus and Gurunberd.
How can you tell about Wyald or the snake Apostle though?

In some religions, the highest priest is considered the direct representative of God, or a God himself. Ganishka, for example could have been alive for years in front of the eyes of his people if their mythology is like this

Remember why the Bakiraka were exiled.

PsychoJavexx said:
there were a ton of branded bodies at the bottom of the Tower of Rebirth (is this the right tower, the one where Griffith was tortured?).

It's the right tower.

xechnao · January 26, 2004

PsychoJavexx said:
Why bother making theories and speculations? Pay attention to what the story has told, and not what heppened in "real life."

...

PsychoJavexx said:
The Egg apostle said there was 5, because he was probably made after Griffith turned into Femto (the fifth God Hand).

Yeah, that was my point.

PsychoJavexx said:
And we don't know what destroyed Gaiseric's empire, but as far as anyone can guess, it was probably some form of God Hand (maybe different members), since there were a ton of branded bodies at the bottom of the Tower of Rebirth (is this the right tower, the one where Griffith was tortured?). But we don't know that either...

I have developed a recent theory of the course of events in a near thread. According to this theory I am explaining how things match. I mentioned this at the start of the above post so pay more attention.

xechnao · January 26, 2004

Olivier Hague said:
Well, we know for a fact that Zoddo is older than the Count and Rochine, and we can pretty much assume than he's also older than Locus and Grunbeld.

That was my point.

Olivier Hague said:
How can you tell about Wyald or the snake Apostle though?.

Well Wyald was a crime convict held in the castle of Midland. Propablly upon becoming an apostle began his savage activities that made him famous as per his character. People would have known him as being too old but this hasn't been stated. Snake count would also be famous for his attrocities and if this would have been for too long people would have been aware of this mystery(as per Zodd legend for example they are).Again the fact that this impression is not given makes me have this assumptions.

Olivier Hague said:
Remember why the Bakiraka were exiled.

"Our loyalty to the nation is from a tragedy that goes back hundreds of
years"
Why not an effective conspiracy against the clan, to control it better if it could have been a pain in the ass till that time? Barkilaka seem too carefull and effective to lead to a nation tragedy by themselves.

Olivier_Hague · January 26, 2004

xechnao said:
Wyald was a crime convict held in the castle of Midland. Propablly

"Probably". It's spelled "probably". Please. ^^;

upon becoming an apostle began his savage activities that made him famous as per his character.

Where does it say anything about that?
And nowhere does it say that he became an Apostle while he was in prison.

Snake count would also be famous for his attrocities.

Well, he was "famous" enough for Guts to know and find him...

"Our loyalty to the nation is from a tragedy that goes back hundreds of years"

Bad translation. ^^;

Why not an effective conspiracy against the clan, to control it better if it could have been a pain in the ass till that time?

That's not the reason. The actual reason is stated in volume 22.

xechnao · January 26, 2004

Olivier Hague said:
"Probably". It's spelled "probably". Please. ^^;

You are pissed, eh??

Olivier Hague said:
Where does it say anything about that?

Obviously you didn't get me. What I said was that having the impulsive and violent character he has, most propably he would have become infamous more sooner than later and thus end up in prison. So he wouldn't have been an apostle much time before than ending up in prison. Midlanders would have known him by legend of "nosferatu" if he was hanging there for more than an eon. Something that is not stated.

Olivier Hague said:
And nowhere does it say that he became an Apostle while he was in prison.

So?

Olivier Hague said:
Well, he was "famous" enough for Guts to know and find him...

Exactly. That is my point.

Olivier Hague said:
Bad translation. ^^;

Is it?

http://www.skullknight.net/yabbse/index.php?board=19;action=display;threadid=2406

Olivier Hague said:
That's not the reason. The actual reason is stated in volume 22.

How do you know there wasn't a conspiracy in this? Remember what was happening in Midland courts when Griffith was still alive and famous? Remember Julious' "tragedy"?

PsychoJavexx · January 26, 2004

xechnao said:
...Yeah, that was my point.I have developed a recent theory of the course of events in a near thread. According to this theory I am explaining how things match. I mentioned this at the start of the above post so pay more attention.

No, you didn't mention that, I don't think you did. Actually, I didn't understand a word you said in the first sentence, and I don't know what "frase" is.

And like I said: why develop a theory? Why waste the time when someone always comes behind you and tell you how wrong you are? Like the thing with Wyld. Why do it? It doesn't matter, he's long gone and dead and never coming back. Ever. He was just there to rape that girl and then rip her arms and legs off. lol His background is of no importance, and never was.

xechnao · January 26, 2004

PsychoJavexx said:
No, you didn't mention that, I don't think you did. Actually, I didn't understand a word you said in the first sentence, and I don't know what "frase" is.

"...and this to accomodate my recent theory of the course of events."
Well this is what I meant. If this has not been clear for you, then I am sorry.

PsychoJavexx said:
Like the thing with Wyld. Why do it? It doesn't matter, he's long gone and dead and never coming back. Ever. He was just there to rape that girl and then rip her arms and legs off. lol His background is of no importance, and never was.

We are trying to make a thread about the timing apostles were presented. If this annoys you tell administrators.

Griffith · January 26, 2004

Yeah, and this thread is plenty annoying too. Lady Char, why are you making random threads of wild stuff that can't be proved or even validly speculated on?

Hey, who do you think Guts' dad is!? ::)

Please, don't feed the Xechnao.

-Griffith

Olivier_Hague · January 26, 2004

xechnao said:
You are pissed, eh??

Moron.

What I said was that having the impulsive and violent character he has, most propably he would have become infamous more sooner than later and thus end up in prison. So he wouldn't have been an apostle much time before than ending up in prison.

You don't know that.

Exactly. That is my point.

And how does that tell you that he's younger than Zoddo?

Is it?

Yes.

xechnao · January 26, 2004

Olivier Hague said:
You don't know that.

Don't know what? That he was violent and impulsive?

Olivier Hague said:
And how does that tell you that he's younger than Zoddo

Zoddo was known as legend "nosferatu". He didn't have relationships with villagers. If Snake Count was older than normal people would have know. Hey, he asked for service, obediance and control: he would have made known himself to people from the begining of his "apostle career".
All these assumptions are based on the psychology and character of the apostles. This is not that insane.

Olivier Hague said:
Yes.

I don't speak japanese. Why don't you try to correct it if it is wrong?

Olivier_Hague · January 26, 2004

xechnao said:
Don't know what? That he was violent and impulsive?

That he would have become famous.

Zoddo was known as legend "nosferatu".

Among mercenaries, anyway.

If Snake Count was older than normal people would have know.

Not necessarily. He could eat them before they'd talk. And cruel (human) leaders/nobles aren't that uncommon.

Why don't you try to correct it if it is wrong?

Because I have a lot of work, and I really don't feel like translating anything else right now, especially from Japanese to _English_.

Griffith · January 26, 2004

xechnao said:
Why don't you try to correct it if it is wrong?

Correcting wrong hasn't worked too well with you in the past. ;)

-Griffith

PsychoJavexx · January 26, 2004

Griffith said:
Hey, who do you think Guts' dad is!? ::)

Griffith is Guts' dad, making him his own Grandpa. ;D

Anyway, why are you trying to make a thread about who the first apostle, and why did you have to point out that the Egg Apostle was the LAST?

xechnao · January 26, 2004

Olivier Hague said:
That he would have become famous.

Or infamous. For a guy like him it was a matter of "short" time, I guess.

Olivier Hague said:
Among mercenaries, anyway.

That's because Zodd mostly appeared in battles I guess.

Olivier Hague said:
Not necessarily. He could eat them before they'd talk. And cruel (human) people aren't that uncommon.

His soldiers didn't even know he was a monster. And if he was that supernatural on their eyes they would have done or say something I guess. Chances grow for this with more time passing by.

Olivier Hague said:
Because I have a lot of work right now, and I really don't fell like translating anything else right now, especially from Japanese to _English_.

Ok. Good work session then.

SexyCharlotte · January 27, 2004

Olivier Hague said:
Well, we know for a fact that Zoddo is older than the Count and Rochine, and we can pretty much assume than he's also older than Locus and Grunbeld.
How can you tell about Wyald or the snake Apostle though?Remember why the Bakiraka were exiled.It's the right tower.

In the early manga volume 5 it was mentioned that Zodd was ( and correct me if I'm wrong here) three hundred years old...or roaming the battlefields for over three hundred years. Something in that range of years.

It's true there isn't a lot of info on the Snake guy or Wyald...we just saw Wyald was an old shriveled man when he was human.

My GUESS would lie with Zodd.

puella · January 27, 2004

Lady Sexy Charlotte said:
or roaming the battlefields for over three hundred years. Something in that range of years.

That one is right.

Azn He-Man666 · January 27, 2004

Okay well their ranking of coolness goes
1. Zodd
2. Locus
3. Grunbeld
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
dat dude wit penis fo teh tounge

Franz · January 27, 2004

Griffith said:
Hey, who do you think Guts' dad is!? ::)

ME! I'M THE BIG DADDY!!!!!!!!

Who was the first apostle?

SexyCharlotte

All those who wander are not always lost

xechnao

PsychoJavexx

Guest

Olivier_Hague

xechnao

xechnao

Olivier_Hague

xechnao

PsychoJavexx

Guest

xechnao

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew

Olivier_Hague

xechnao

Olivier_Hague

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew

PsychoJavexx

Guest

xechnao

SexyCharlotte

All those who wander are not always lost

puella

Berserk forever

Azn He-Man666

Was it you who killed my companions,one after one?

Franz

It's a dolphin.