Charlotte and Griffith's Next Moves

SexyCharlotte

All those who wander are not always lost
So Zodd flies off with the bed and our two destined to be together characters. What's next? Marriage? Griffith's Ultimate Dream of ruling the kingdom with his lady at his side? Or does that sound too easy and predictable. What do you guys think is the next move?

LC
 
Well that would have to depend on which side, Guts or Griffith...



I assume you are saying Griffith, i speculate his next move most like is to launch full frontal assualt on Ganishka
 
Suspence has been dynamic many times with the story in BERSERK till now.
IMHO before the story turns back to Griffith
we should get to know something more about the mysteries behind the story. Maybe behelits or magic generally or even godhand, who knows?
When the story snaps again we will be considering Griffith and things a bit differently then.
 
Lady Sexy Charlotte said:
So Zodd flies off with the bed and our two destined to be together characters. What's next? Marriage? Griffith's Ultimate Dream of ruling the kingdom with his lady at his side? Or does that sound too easy and predictable.

Charlotte seems pretty adaptable, but if I were her, I'd be afraid of Griffith.

Just one look at his eyes ought to be enough to warn her he's not the same guy she knew.

The story can go lots of different directions. At this point, I'm thinking that the changes Guts is going through and the effects of his armor will force him to fight to hold on to his humanity, and sometimes fail to do so. Griffith, doing the mirror image thing, will struggle to deny his humanity and any emotions, and sometimes fail to do so. This is consistent with their characterization, past and present.

I think Miura loves the pain and angst, so I expect lots of that for both Guts AND Griffith before the promised not-totally-drepressing end. Charlotte and Caska will have their parts to play in all of it...
 
miurafan said:
Charlotte seems pretty adaptable, but if I were her, I'd be afraid of Griffith.

Just one look at his eyes ought to be enough to warn her he's not the same guy she knew.

The story can go lots of different directions. At this point, I'm thinking that the changes Guts is going through and the effects of his armor will force him to fight to hold on to his humanity, and sometimes fail to do so. Griffith, doing the mirror image thing, will struggle to deny his humanity and any emotions, and sometimes fail to do so. This is consistent with their characterization, past and present.

I think Miura loves the pain and angst, so I expect lots of that for both Guts AND Griffith before the promised not-totally-drepressing end. Charlotte and Caska will have their parts to play in all of it...

This one is interesting. But as I got it Griffith has no feelings for Charlotte (remember Gennon I told you?).The only one that seems to have feelings for is Guts and Caska because of the baby. Does he conect Charlotte with Guts to have this emotional doupt and struggle
going on for him?For this I am not sure.
 
xechnao said:
This one is interesting. But as I got it Griffith has no feelings for Charlotte (remember Gennon I told you?).

Gennon probably isn't the best example to use when debating Griffith's feelings. His purpose was to show a side to Griffith most people didn't get to see. Charlotte is a recurring character and more important to the story--specifically, more important to Griffith's overall story and there's more to tell of that.

The Gennon scenes provided a look behind Griffith's careful facade, revealing that he has fears and uncertainties, and he struggles to deal with them. Important stuff, since getting inside Griffith's head doesn't happen often.

The scene at the river is a good example of Griffith saying one thing (that he doesn't feel guilt over the men who've died under his command) and immediately contradicting himself by his actions (gouging his arms until they bleed.)

Unlike Guts, who's usually very straightforward with his feelings, Griffith spends a lot of time putting on an act, sheilding his feelings, or just plain denying them, so I don't take everything he says at face value.

Besides, emotionally sterile characters make for boring stories. Just because Griffith (any version of him) isn't as openly emotional as Guts doesn't mean there isn't something percolating away under the surface. As I see it, Miura expects his readers to work a bit at interpreting Griffith.
 
miurafan said:
Gennon probably isn't the best example to use when debating Griffith's feelings. His purpose was to show a side to Griffith most people didn't get to see. Charlotte is a recurring character and more important to the story--specifically, more important to Griffith's overall story and there's more to tell of that.

The Gennon scenes provided a look behind Griffith's careful facade, revealing that he has fears and uncertainties, and he struggles to deal with them. Important stuff, since getting inside Griffith's head doesn't happen often.

The scene at the river is a good example of Griffith saying one thing (that he doesn't feel guilt over the men who've died under his command) and immediately contradicting himself by his actions (gouging his arms until they bleed.)

Unlike Guts, who's usually very straightforward with his feelings, Griffith spends a lot of time putting on an act, sheilding his feelings, or just plain denying them, so I don't take everything he says at face value.

Besides, emotionally sterile characters make for boring stories. Just because Griffith (any version of him) isn't as openly emotional as Guts doesn't mean there isn't something percolating away under the surface. As I see it, Miura expects his readers to work a bit at interpreting Griffith.

Edit: What the story has said so far (and this is shown by your examples) is that Griffith sacrifices his feellings for his dream. He sacrificed the whole Hawk squad, goddamit. ;D
As you said actions count and the fact that Griffith made himself bleed is that suffering even of himself, of his own body will be necessary for his dream.
Griffith is not emotionally sterile as you said. It is just that he is emotionally inhuman: his dream is above and beyond any other thing. Thus his determination, his destiny is inhuman. He(including his own body) just serves a plan(dream) and he also made others serve for this one.



Uriel said:
Is it just me, or is miurafan the most ass kicking newbie we've had since.... 2003?
She is a romantic one ;D
 
Uriel said:
Is it just me, or is miurafan the most ass kicking newbie we've had since.... 2003?

Thank you. But miurafan writes genre fiction for a living (or is supposed to when she isn't procrastinating) so she's just offering up a slightly different perspective than usual, that's all. ;)

He sacrificed the whole Hawk squad, goddamit.

And I'm sure he'll pay for that in the end.

Griffith and his actions at the eclipse are a hot-button issue, and I try to avoid debates once they start to get overly emotional. These are characters in a story; they have no free will…they do whatever Miura needs them to do to advance his story, so I can't take any of it personally. They are what they are, and as long as Miura gives me believable explanations for the times when they're behaving like rotten bastards, then I'm okay with it. Doesn't mean I like it, but I'm sure Miura has a good reason for putting these characters (and us) through all the pain and angst, and I want to see the story through to the end to find out what it is.

She is a romantic one
Ha! Well, I tend to focus more on emotion than action because that's what interests me. I'm not advocating a romantic relationship, but I'm not ruling out the possibility one could develop, even though Griffith seems the least likely person to get romantic.

I don't trust Griffith's intentions toward Charlotte. I feel uneasy about her safety. Charlotte hasn't a clue what Griffith has done since she helped rescue him, but we know what he's capable of. And I know she's kind of a ditz, but she's also something of an innocent, and I don't want to see anything horrible happen to her.
 
EDIT:
miurafan said:
And I'm sure he'll pay for that in the end.
We have a lot more to see in BERSERK.We have a lot to see about the cosmic mechanics in BERSERK and what "pay" exactly would mean in respect to your nature.

miurafan said:
I don't trust Griffith's intentions toward Charlotte. I feel uneasy about her safety. Charlotte hasn't a clue what Griffith has done since she helped rescue him, but we know what he's capable of.
That is what I was talking about. Then your point of view is not that distant than mine.

miurafan said:
And I know she's kind of a ditz, but she's also something of an innocent, and I don't want to see anything horrible happen to her.
Check out very first chapter p.48. You would love it ;D
 

SexyCharlotte

All those who wander are not always lost
Sorry about that!

Charlotte was just protected all of her life, as a princess usually is, esp in that day in age, so she's really naive. And keep in mind too that the King kept her sheltered on purpose for his own diabolical desires.

OH! And this thread should have been put in the SPECULATIONS section as well...sorry about that.


Great responses, Miurafan. Well-spoken and well-written.
 

SaiyajinNoOuji

I'm still better than you
Well i think charolette is so blind by the re-appearance of Griffith, that she doesnt see any of the little signs to signify that Griffith is indeed different... in anycase, i am pretty sure Griffith is just using her for the time being, or I guess you can say that she is the rebound girl with benefits since Guts is no longer with him. Just my imput. :-*
 

Dark Wanderer

I'm evil :p
Smith said:
To marry her and be a king... what else?

Well, Charlotte might serve one more purpose: give him a horde of children :D. Hey, that's actually what was expected of the women in aristocrat/noblemen/royal families, even if they didn't like the one they were enaged to: To produce a heir... Dunno if Griffith needs a heir through, since he should be practially immortal...
 

Lliugusamui

around the corner
Just a random thought, if Griffith gets to be King (and has heir or not), the royalty will have Casca and Guts blood, so Guts would have a right to the crown ! :p

Guil
 

SexyCharlotte

All those who wander are not always lost
I have a feeling Charlotte may be naive, but she might surprise us. Who knows? Griffith's motives towards her was simply to use her. In the old manga he used her to vent out his frustrations of Guts leaving Taka No Dan, and being defeated in the swordfight.

There's nothing human left of Griffith. He gave that up ( his humanity) when he became Femto. To me, he's just Femto inside a reborn 'body', but his evil nature is the same.
 
Lady Sexy Charlotte said:
I have a feeling Charlotte may be naive, but she might surprise us. Who knows? Griffith's motives towards her was simply to use her. In the old manga he used her to vent out his frustrations of Guts leaving Taka No Dan, and being defeated in the swordfight.

There's nothing human left of Griffith. He gave that up ( his humanity) when he became Femto. To me, he's just Femto inside a reborn 'body', but his evil nature is the same.

Ya... Maybe she may regret by then and tried all sort of ways to advise and stop him? Which eventually end up killing herself since Griffith had no intention of turning back
 

Bloody Needle

I'm a llama!
Charlotte's been living with the fantasy of Griffith for a very long time: it will be interesting to see how she copes both with the Apostles around him and his own supernatural nature. In an odd way, I think Anna is more likely to be the one asking difficult questions.

As for her purpose to Griffith...well, birth is a sort of supernatural gate, as we saw first with the Demon Child and Egg Apostle, and now with the Trolls and the Daka. Perhaps her function is not bear a child to be an heir, but rather to be an incarnation (by which I mean a matter receptacle) for, let's say, another God Hand. Or four.

Marriage to Charlotte and producing an heir also legitimate Griffith's rise to a King of Midland. Part of me wonders if this isn't just a savvy political move, but also somehow supernatural...reception of kingship has its own mystical rules and rituals, such as the chrism (anoitment) and the very concept of the "royal person." On the other hand, Canterwiescz's "The Kings Two Bodies" is a little obtuse as a reference, so I'm probably waay out on a limb.
 
Bloody Needle said:
In an odd way, I think Anna is more likely to be the one asking difficult questions.

Yes, I wouldn't underestimate this one as a plotwise speculation. Anna could be a potential spin to the story. But then again, remembering what Griffith did to Mule thins the chances of a troublemaker Anna to Griffith's plans.
 
[quote author=Lady Sexy Charlotte]his evil nature is the same.
But what I love about Berserk is Miura's way of handling evil natures, inhuman or human. It's not black-and-white or always predictable. The good guys can be monsters and the monsters can be good guys.

There are the instances where the evil critters are just bad and have no real depth, such as trolls, cannon-fodder apostles like the Snake guy, and Wyald (I absolutely hated Wyald; Guts couldn't kill him quick enough as far as I was concerned.)

But then there's characters like the Count and Roshina (or is it Roshinu?), who may be monsters but they've retained something of their humanity. The count was bad, but there was a line he simply couldn't cross -- sacrificing his own daughter -- even if it meant dying and getting dragged down to hell.

Roshina was responsible for lots of dead Hawks and dead kids, but she cared about her friend. If she hadn't, Jill probably would've died because Guts was more focused on killing Roshina than making sure Jill was safe. In the end, if I'm remembering correctly, it was saving Jill that got Roshina killed. And, I admit, a tiny part of me hated Guts for doing that, even though I knew she deserved to die.

A behelit isn't always necessary for a character to commit apostle-like acts. Serpico is one of my favorites, so I'm not picking on him, but to me there's not a lot separating him from the likes of Roshina.

Roshina sacrificed her parents so she could live freely and happily, and she quite happily did a lot of awful things. Serpico torched his mother to save his own ass, and then trotted around after Farnese and stood silently at her side while she ordered countless innocent people burned to death.

The only difference that makes Serpico a good guy is that he feels regret and guilt for what he did. Still, I got a sense of sadness or regret during Roshina's death, in that scene where she was falling and imagining going back to a home and a family that no longer existed. She'd had a lousy life, and she was just a kid, so I could understand what drove her to kill her parents. Serpico was living the good life, and rather than give it up he burned his mother. She wasn't a very nice person, and in the end she was crazy, but still…not a good thing.

I was going to add that the other difference between the two is that some mystical woo-woo gave Roshina wings and powers, but since some mystical woo-woo just gave Serpico the ability to fly, be immune to arrows, and wield a deadly feather duster, that doesn't really work.

Then there's the King of Midland. He was a rotten, pathetic human being, but I sort of felt sorry for him anyway. I understood why he beat the crap out of Griffith and ordered him tortured, but I never, ever forgave him for ambushing the Hawks, after they'd fought to save his kingdom.

Zodd's always been kind of ambiguous, and Grunebeld, Locus, and Irvine seem to be more like Zodd and less like Wyald. Grunebeld was even bitching about being sent to kill Flora, because he didn't see anything honorable about killing an old woman. Hard to argue with that, even if Flora wasn't your average old woman.

Anyway, I guess my point is that Griffith, Locus, Grunebeld, Irvine, and even Zodd may be evil and have probably done lots of bad things, but I wouldn't be in the least surprised if Miura works to make them sympathetic, gives them some sort of achilles' heel, before killing any of them off.
 
Wyald was one of my favorite apostles. I like him much more than Zodd for example. Could it be you didn't understand his way? Serving nothing and nobody other than your male savage impulsions. And again, on the contrary of some other apostles, he wasn't turn on for terrorizing people but for the pleasure of his male body. The other apostle which incorporated this was the very first apostle of BERSERK, but it was the female version of it.

I am not sure Roshinu died for saving Jill. Guts cannoned her while they were if I remember correctly airborn.

On the contrary of Roshinu, Serpicko was forced by society's laws and ways to burn her. Most propably you would have done the same thing if you were in his place.

About the King ambushing the Hawks I believe you could be wrong. Remember the what and how Griffith killed the Queen? I don't find impossible that minister (Foss?) had something revealed against Griffith and the Hawks. If that was the case the king did what he had to do in ambushing them.

Griffith, Locus, Grunebeld, Irvine, and even Zodd seem fanatic servers of some plan. I prefer Wyald over them. He had more personality in my point of view.
 

TheSkyTraveller

Monster adventures on the high seas!
As disgusting as Wild was, vol. 11 is really entertaining and remains one of my favorites to date. Not only does it have some nice, quiet scenes between Guts and Griffith, but it showcases Guts's fighting prowess. It was amazing to see him fell this giant apostle. (Well, before Wild got back up, anyway ^^;)
 

Miyu

I'm smiling on the inside.
xechnao said:
About the King ambushing the Hawks I believe you could be wrong. Remember the what and how Griffith killed the Queen? I don't find impossible that minister (Foss?) had something revealed against Griffith and the Hawks. If that was the case the king did what he had to do in ambushing them.

I'd have to disagree with you on this point. I think Griffith made a credible enough threat to Foss so that he wouldn't try to double cross him again. Though he could have been the one to tell the King Griffith murdered the Queen, how would the King act towards Foss? I think Foss would be killed for letting Griffith commit such a heinous act and not tell anyone about it until Griffith was captured.

It may seem odd for the King to give orders to have the Band of the Hawks killed, but the Band of the Hawks was Griffith's army and symbol of his strength. Though they aren't as strong without Griffith, the King knows that they would retaliate to get their General back at whatever cost. The Band of the Hawks are a strong army and the King knew that so the best way to prevent Griffith's rescue was to kill them off as soon as possible.

The Band of the Hawks is also something that Griffith made and the King's hatred for Griffith was so great that he probably wanted everything of his to be destroyed. In other words, the King is just a bastard. But that's my take on that issue.
 
xechnao said:
I am not sure Roshinu died for saving Jill. Guts cannoned her while they were if I remember correctly airborn.

Yeah Bloodly needle was right, Guts backstab her while Roshinu was trying lift that fire tree off Jill, even though the cannon did injured her, it wasnt deadly enough to make her harmless...

xechnao said:
On the contrary of Roshinu, Serpicko was forced by society's laws and ways to burn her. Most propably you would have done the same thing if you were in his place.

Wouldnt that make him in a situation very similar to Griffith when he was being questioned by the GH?

xechnao said:
Griffith, Locus, Grunebeld, Irvine, and even Zodd seem fanatic servers of some plan. I prefer Wyald over them. He had more personality in my point of view.

I like them more than any other apostle in Berserk, for they show respect to the person they honoured. And they dun kill ppl just for the fun of it...
 
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