Author Topic: *coughs* allow me to clear my throat.  (Read 21590 times)

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Offline Kart

Re:*coughs* allow me to clear my throat.
« Reply #50 on: February 20, 2004, 05:12:54 AM »
rarely, most women find other women attractive.

Offline TheSkyTraveller

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Re:*coughs* allow me to clear my throat.
« Reply #51 on: February 20, 2004, 05:40:09 AM »
I just dont like gays because they are not natural. They spread diseases like aids and STDS, if you haven't figured that out....People are not born homosexual. They are made homosexual.


They aren't natural?  You know that for a fact?  You must be a neurologist, then, if you can tell me with absolute certainty that sexual orientation is a personal choice rather than something your brain is wired with from birth.  Straight people can't spread STDs?  Did I miss something??

Quote
Oh come on, lets not get too out of hand here, your a matured person who has a sense over whats right and wrong. But do little kids know whats right and wrong? Yea, if they watched law and order, they would think the guy is soooo cool and they would want to become a lawyer or an investigator when they grow up. And if they watch queer eye for the strait guy... well you get the point. YES, MEDIA DOES EFFECT PEOPLE. Maybe not matured people, or people who know right from wrong, but the new generation. Remember Columbine...

Oh yeah, damn, I forgot, it was bad influences like Marylin Manson that caused those kids to shoot up their school. ::)
Not all kids have trouble distinguishing between fantasy and reality.  See, the reason the media has a bad influence on SOME people, is because they can't separate what they see in a movie or on a TV show from what goes on in reality.  

I'm not really sure what standpoint you're trying to argue from anymore.  First you say the media is to blame for practically anything you percive to have gone wrong, and now you're saying that it's the parents' responsibility to teach their children values, and that the media is not to blame.  Which is it?


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medievald00d

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Re:*coughs* allow me to clear my throat.
« Reply #52 on: February 20, 2004, 05:47:05 AM »

Quote
I'm not really sure what standpoint you're trying to argue from anymore.  First you say the media is to blame for practically anything you percive to have gone wrong, and now you're saying that it's the parents' responsibility to teach their children values, and that the media is not to blame.  Which is it?

conservatives tend to regurgitate what people tell them. Thats why they're so hypocritical.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2004, 05:48:10 AM by pheonixfenix »

Offline Sparnage

Re:*coughs* allow me to clear my throat.
« Reply #53 on: February 20, 2004, 06:10:48 AM »
First off; demonX, you think homosexuals can help being that way? Look I hate how the tax payers money is wasted on them having a parade in sydney every fucking year but i dont think they can help it anymore then a black person can help being black its not that bigger deal. second, hedrosexuals spread alot of sexual transmitted diseases including aids as well, thats life.

second of all, as for media influences it has not been officially proven to what is the real power the media have over the audience, i dont believe it is the "bullet theory" which is believing that the media is all powerfull and has considerable coercive power over our lives and what we watch on tv.

of many theories about the media i probably belive the reinforcement theory as the most accurate, which believe the media is not all powerful and meanings of the messages displayed are very much open to interpretation of the audience, because the audience is seen as a group of individuals who have their own set of values and socialized belief patterns, so the media will only reinforce our already set beliefs.

Offline xechnao

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Re:*coughs* allow me to clear my throat.
« Reply #54 on: February 20, 2004, 09:26:57 AM »
Ok, I've not been through the whole thread but from a few posts I've got the point what's going on here.

Well, boys and girls,
DemonX, even if he is only 14 and you seem to be older, has some points on this one just fine.

1)Truth is that society and culture have a great impact even of such matter such as "gayness". See for example ancient Greece, see some arab tribes, see Venice of renaisence etchetera, etchetera.


2)If parents are to blame for their kids, media can be blamed by them(parents) by default. Parents have right to complaint at the media the way they have a right to complain about social security against crime, what's going on at school, etchetera etchetera. Yes, media is not supposed just to play in your living room for your kid: it is just everywhere or it's influence in society. And wtf, if they fuck up really bad with the TV programe and TV shows the hours I am getting to watch the TV, I would complain for me. So I don't see why I shouldn't complain to the media for my kid.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2004, 12:18:03 AM by xechnao »
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline theblakeman

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Re:*coughs* allow me to clear my throat.
« Reply #55 on: February 20, 2004, 03:10:13 PM »
*sigh* This thread truly shows the quality of intelligence in the people that will inherit the earth...frightening.

Offline Kart

Re:*coughs* allow me to clear my throat.
« Reply #56 on: February 20, 2004, 05:30:08 PM »
the reason your responsible for your child, is because you are the one who influences the way he thinks, if he thinks sex and drugs are ok, you did something to let him know that. you need to make sure you child knows what is bad and whats good, and teach him how to make his own choices, and not what he sees on tv or hears from others. like DemonX, he hears things from others and they become his opinion, making him look like a bigot, when chances are his view is really his familys and he just is repeating it.

Offline Sparnage

Re:*coughs* allow me to clear my throat.
« Reply #57 on: February 20, 2004, 05:44:43 PM »
Its really not that easy to control people kart, no matter what people how many times people are told right from wrong they will eventually choose for themselves and nothing will control that.

Most people these days are grown up to be told right from wrong, i sure as shit know i was but eventually when the teenage years come people will know very well what they are doing, how its wrong and justify it to themselves that its ok or they just dont care.

All the underage drinking, weed smoking, robbery, bad language and anything else considered unethical in most parts of society, parental teaching or whatever may end up meaning shit in the end, those who were brought up with a high ethical backround often fall from the tracks then those who raised around a average ethic lifestyle, not always but often. It just depends on the person.

You said yourself if your mum finds out your doing half the shit you are doing you get kicked out or whatever, so you were clearly raised to know right from wrong but like most others you choose your own path. If you were raised less ethically would you have fallen further from the tracks? maybe, maybe not.
 

Offline Kart

Re:*coughs* allow me to clear my throat.
« Reply #58 on: February 20, 2004, 06:29:49 PM »
the differnce between me is, I know where I'm going, I know I can get out of this, my friend, I met him online, then we met real life, we were close, catchi this.


It happens about a year ago, he had been engaged, strong christian, church on sunday, no drugs, no drink, no sex, all that shit, well his girlfriend breaks up with him, he starts hangin around this guy, note, he's about 4 or 5 years older then me, well he starts drinkin, doing weed, having sex with girls my age, i'm like "yeah he was christian, he needs to get out", well his friend was 17-18 year old, and had such a strong influence on him, the next thing you know, they move to virginia, this is where shit really gets bad, his friend stops working, and generally stops doing anything of use, so my friend gets depressed, and tries to kill himself, he fails, i told him to try again...because you know, it's really not a good thing to fail suicide.

shit happens, he comes back to california, anyway, he now, is interested in this girl online, who I also happen to know and be friends with, he says he loves her, wants to marry her, you don't need to point the huge ethical and age isssues out, they are obivious. Next up, he's sitll into drugs, drinking almost every night (alone), doing weed, meth, i'm sittin here thinking "oh yeah great, you're bitching to me about how you love this girl, you want to be a good person, yet you don't try, you don't even try."

This is where the fact, though I stray, I stray how teenagers do, trying out things, growing up basically, him, he's taking a bad path in which he will wind up with nothing and I still have a chance.

Offline Sparnage

Re:*coughs* allow me to clear my throat.
« Reply #59 on: February 20, 2004, 06:42:17 PM »
I didnt mean to give the impression that i think you are too deep in, really. Im sure you'll do fine, it was just as an example.

I wouldnt describe myself as a complete fucking bastard or anything, but compared to how i was raised i strayed pretty far in many cases. I hold no one respsonsible but myself, i knew better, i choose the path i wanted instead.

Offline Kart

Re:*coughs* allow me to clear my throat.
« Reply #60 on: February 20, 2004, 07:33:48 PM »
of course, that means you were raised well, i was raised well, but when you don't take responsablity for your own root, you've been raised badly, your parent never taught you shit, you need to be able to stand up for yourself and say "I made myself" not "GTA made me kill people"

Offline Kakkoii_Guts

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Re:*coughs* allow me to clear my throat.
« Reply #61 on: February 20, 2004, 11:39:15 PM »
Demon X, you know what Homophobia really says about you, right?

Murder Foul

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Re:*coughs* allow me to clear my throat.
« Reply #62 on: February 20, 2004, 11:45:47 PM »
DemonX, you know what Ellen Degenres says about you, right?
« Last Edit: February 20, 2004, 11:48:06 PM by Murder Foul »

Offline Lauralana

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Re:*coughs* allow me to clear my throat.
« Reply #63 on: February 20, 2004, 11:46:22 PM »

I wouldnt describe myself as a complete fucking bastard or anything, but compared to how i was raised i strayed pretty far in many cases. I hold no one respsonsible but myself, i knew better, i choose the path i wanted instead.


exactly. it was your choice. And u took responsibilty for it. Until the day comes when i can actually see a GTA character put a gun into a child's hand will i ever hold it responsible for someone else's actions.Millions and millions of people watch TV everyday and play games every day and are influenced by it. Just b/c 100 or so are fuckin idiots and can't tell reality from fiction doesn't mean that the media is to blame.

Like i said b4, if you are someone who would blame the TV for something stupid your child may have done....turn off the damn TV.

If you have the time to blame someone else for your misfourtune, you had the same amount of time to prevent it.
" you have to be the change you want to see in the world"

Offline xechnao

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Re:*coughs* allow me to clear my throat.
« Reply #64 on: February 21, 2004, 12:33:09 AM »
  You talk about parenthood problems over here when you haven't been parents yourselves.
Anyway...about somebodies that talk about responsability, please take the responsability first to know what you are talking about.

Millions and millions of people watch TV everyday and play games every day and are influenced by it.
then you said...
Like i said b4, if you are someone who would blame the TV for something stupid your child may have done....turn off the damn TV.
You see, that doesn't solve the problem. Media and their influence are everywhere. By turning your living room TV off won't chage that much on your kid's life if your kid gets outside your house and gets to meet those millions you are talking about.
Computers, internet, magazines, tv screens are everywhere today.
I don't see how you want to take 100% responsability about those regarding your kid. People for resolving these problems and for good have to take it to society also.
My two cents-
« Last Edit: February 21, 2004, 12:34:52 AM by xechnao »
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline Lauralana

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Re:*coughs* allow me to clear my throat.
« Reply #65 on: February 21, 2004, 01:33:54 AM »
I guess what i am saying really isn't getting understood properly....

I grew up in a home where the TV was always on at dinner time. In fact, we have a TV in every bedroom, both kitchens, the poolroom and the den. My parents had their favorite shows that they always watched and me and my siblings had the ability to watch whatever we wanted. There were many shows that I saw at a young age that maybe i shouldn't have. Yet i never had the urge to pick up a gun

With all of this in mind, and knowing that they did not have absolute power over what their children saw on TV and outside the home, my parents took the time to educate their offspring on the differences b/t TV and reality, right and wrong, fact and fiction, etc. The media never had the chance to skew my vision on anything b/c my parents were my backbone and i grew up in a very open home. My parents had no fear about the "influences" that their children would get from TV, b/c they knew us and raised us to be a certain way.

I didn't mean for this to be so long....but i am just saying that if everyone is soo  worried about what their kids see in the media and how it effects their brains....do a preemptive strike. Don't give the media power that it does not deserve. Stop whining about changes that other people should make....and make the damn changes yourself. If a parent doesn't have the time/ desire to do the above, then they should not be surprised that they have a weak minded child that has to emulate everything they see.

Parents that do not neglect their children, and put their all into their children from start to finish ( not a random basis) will end up with level headed children that wouldn't "jump off a bridge just b/c every one else is doing it"....or b/c they saw it on TV.

You don't have to be a parent to know that, xechnao. Is that responsible enough for you?  ;).....and stop taking my words out of context....

I'm not saying that i know everything on the subject...i am saying that somethings are common sense. And i know what i am saying is common sense  ;)
 
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Offline xechnao

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Re:*coughs* allow me to clear my throat.
« Reply #66 on: February 21, 2004, 02:20:26 AM »
No, this is not enough responsible for me.
And I wasn't refering only at you. Just used your words to say what I wanted to say. Sorry about that.

Anyway,
 Just to be sure that everything is under control, how are parents exactly supposed to educate, or uneducate and in a way that is going to really work, a kid that sees in TV all the bang! bang! in an plot-action movie, to surely not think to or actually use or shoot with a bang!bang! gun?

And it's not just about a kid taking a gun. It's about the consideration towards the world, society and other human beings that kids(and not only) get and propablly retain when grown up. We get to consider violence or going to war for example, or even the existence and use of guns-weapons-arms something not so strange, something that could happen-a solution or conclusion that we could take, have or make and that would seem or feel or be normal to us. This predispotion is the modelling of consciousnes we get from the media. Haven't you ever heard before of brain-washing?
Teenager models-prototypes for example? Yes, lots of other examples too...
 In general they influence us from the way we consume to the way we behave and consider our relations with other people.
I believe parents have every right to complain about what's on TV.
Now, don't get me wrong. I am not saying that they have no role in the family. Nor do I say that parents should have no responsability. I am just saying that the media are not blameless either.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2004, 02:28:44 AM by xechnao »
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline Kart

Re:*coughs* allow me to clear my throat.
« Reply #67 on: February 21, 2004, 03:39:15 AM »
ok, there's an example, Griffith, he's very considerate, he loved his men, and they loved him, now, He sacrificed them, but they were willing to die for his dream.


then, we have the man who tried to rape Casca, no one had ever said no to him, so he goes for Casca...you can see the differnce, Griffith has love and compassion for his men, people in general even, then you have the noble, no one says no, no one can say no, he does what he likes, he has no love, no consideration, no feeling for anyone else, no value to them, Kids are raised like the noble these days.



Offline DemonX

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Re:*coughs* allow me to clear my throat.
« Reply #68 on: February 21, 2004, 06:13:39 AM »
HOLY SHIT!

After going to bed, comeing back from school the next day, all I was thinking about was that basterd skull lard. And now I have just lost thought on most of the point I was trying to make.

But I do remember the original point I was going to. It wasn't about homosexuality, it was just one big example, due to my hatred to homos. But what I was trying to say though is that the media affects children! What can you NOT understand about that?

Skytraveler---
Quote
Not all kids have trouble distinguishing between fantasy and reality.  See, the reason the media has a bad influence on SOME people, is because they can't separate what they see in a movie or on a TV show from what goes on in reality.  

Young children, (4-7 years old), probably cant see the difference in a fantasy and reality. I am not talking about grown up people, because if THEY cant tell the difference, they are probably mentally disabled.



I have alredy lost myself in forums that have nothing to do with the subject, so i will not argue about this anymore. Others will just keep argueing, and I will keep argueing, and both sides will not accept the others.

Quote
THAT'S A LOW BLOW.  IT SAYS CLEARLY IN HIS PROFILE THAT HE'S 14, SO HE'S NOT MORE THAN A FRESHMAN IN HIGH SCHOOL IF THAT.  THE GAME IS OVER AND YOU KILLED IT!!!1

You damn strait im 14. And what are you going to do about it skull?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2004, 06:17:01 AM by DemonX »
I gave you fair warning! Now I am going to make a fool of myself in front of everybody! >:( Feel the ANGST! >:(

Offline Lauralana

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Re:*coughs* allow me to clear my throat.
« Reply #69 on: February 21, 2004, 06:28:24 AM »
I must say that i really admire the varying views that people put into this board. We really are very intelligent people and it is always good to hear points that differ from your own.

So i guess in the end....we must agree to disagree  ;D

I have a write a paper on this topic for school, and you guys really gave me alot to work with. I must say thank you to those that responded to words that i said....you really gave me ideas and topcis to focus on within my paper. I have to argue both sides.....

you guys are great  :-*
" you have to be the change you want to see in the world"

Offline Tzur

Re:*coughs* allow me to clear my throat.
« Reply #70 on: February 21, 2004, 02:35:31 PM »
But I do remember the original point I was going to. It wasn't about homosexuality, it was just one big example, due to my hatred to homos.
And why do you hate gays? I feel humans are free to live their lives the way they want. If that's what they choose, then so be it. To each his own, right?
Skytraveler---Young children, (4-7 years old), probably cant see the difference in a fantasy and reality. I am not talking about grown up people, because if THEY cant tell the difference, they are probably mentally disabled.
When I was a child, I knew the difference between fantasy and reality. Some children just aren't as developed as others. I suppose it depends on their up-bringing.
I have alredy lost myself in forums that have nothing to do with the subject, so i will not argue about this anymore. Others will just keep argueing, and I will keep argueing, and both sides will not accept the others.
That's right, humans have opinions, therefore, the human race will always be at odds, whether you like it or not.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2004, 02:38:03 PM by Neo Genesis »

Offline *Gyom*

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Re:*coughs* allow me to clear my throat.
« Reply #71 on: February 21, 2004, 03:04:31 PM »
When I was a child, I knew the difference between fantasy and reality. Some children just aren't as developed as others.
Okay, so how do you know it ? Do you remember your very first years very clearly ? Obviously, you're talking out of sense.
Even though all the children arent "developed" at the same level, the brain of a child isn't formed as an adult in the beginning. You don't even need to know about Freud to realize such things.
Basically, you wouldn't have been a child if you always knew the difference between fantasy and reality.

Guil

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Re:*coughs* allow me to clear my throat.
« Reply #72 on: February 21, 2004, 04:09:17 PM »
Others will just keep argueing, and I will keep argueing, and both sides will not accept the others.

Thats the great part about America. you and I can have opposing views and niether of us has to go to jail for expressing those ideas.

Offline xechnao

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« Reply #73 on: February 21, 2004, 04:26:41 PM »
Thats the great part about America. you and I can have opposing views and niether of us has to go to jail for expressing those ideas.

 What happens if somebody has the view or idea that you should go to jail (and that view or idea be opposing to yours, which is that you should not go to jail)?
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline Smith

Re:*coughs* allow me to clear my throat.
« Reply #74 on: February 21, 2004, 04:59:17 PM »
What happens if somebody has the view or idea that you should go to jail (and that view or idea be opposing to yours, which is that you should not go to jail)?

*coughs* allow me to clear my throat.


This is getting nowhere, guys let us just drop this... Some ppl  dun mind gay and some ppl do mind gays... there is no point trying to change someone point of view...


Maybe I should say this: What do u benefit after 3 pages of argument in the thread? Izzit worth the time and the effort of typing so much?  ::)
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