Renewing the Skullknight/Gaiseric post

DarkBlademaster

Jesus cries when he looks at me.
Ok, this is more like a question, rather then a specualation.


Who did Gaiseric sacrifice? Was it his own country that he made? To sacrifice somthing, he has to love it deeply, right?

By this picture in the manga it looks like he sacrificed his empire.

Berserk_v10c06p128_copy.jpg


I know this is an old question, but an interesting one!
 

kimchan

"Should I be overcome by the vapors?
I didn't realize that Gaiseric sacrificed anything. I thought the general theory was the other way around, that Gaiseric and his empire was sacrificed by someone else, possibly explaining the whole vengeance/Void thing.
 

DarkBlademaster

Jesus cries when he looks at me.
Hmm, I always thought that gaiseric sacrificed his country to become what he is today... skull knight. Or it could be void, but I guess its impossible to figure that out right now, isn't it...
 

kimchan

"Should I be overcome by the vapors?
DemonX said:
Hmm, I always thought that gaiseric sacrificed his country to become what he is today... skull knight. Or it could be void, but I guess its impossible to figure that out right now, isn't it...

I was just going by the theories I've heard most often. That someone sacrificed Gaiseric and/or his empire and went on to become Void (often speculated to be the "wise man" that's mentioned in the story of how his empire was destroyed.) There's also the newer idea that the "angels" were not God Hand but the Four Elemental Rulers/Kings/whatever they were called.

I don't know why Gaiseric would sacrifice anything to become Skull Knight, I think it's pretty doubtful he could be an apostle and he's obviously not a God Hand, after all he's specifically fighting against both of those things (and notice that Guts' brand doesn't bleed around him, unlike other creatures I could name.) Puck has specifically mentioned that Skull Knight has an aura something like an elf, although it could be the armor doing that (assuming there's anything in there, beherits tend to 'clang' when he swallows them. ;D) And then there's the whole Berserk armor thing (Zodd's lines in chapter 226), but I don't know how exactly that ties into Skull Knight's creation.
 
Yeah, he definetely could not be an apostle because from the top of my head i dont recall Guts's brand ever bleeding once from being around skullknights presence, yet it would bleed for other things like mozgus who i dont think was exactly an apostle or spirits in general. I would assume skullknight was something totally different.

kimchan said:
And then there's the whole Berserk armor thing, but I don't how exactly that ties into Skull Knight's creation.

My best guess would be Gaiseric slowly lost his humanity over time prehaps, starting with tampering with magic like Guts with the berserker armor, who knows.
 

DarkBlademaster

Jesus cries when he looks at me.
Heres a theory:

Void is Gaiseric. He sacrifices his country for even greater power, as a godhand. However, Skullknight is a good friend of void and was sacrificed along witht he country. Skullknight escapes that eclipes (notice it resembles guts experience, sience flora said that history goes in a spiral, or in other words, similar to the past) and swears vengence on void, first by taking up his armor. Only that he never got a chance to kill void, and has been trying to kill void for 1000 years.

Heres another theory that just came to mind while i was writing the paragraph above.

Another related theory:
The reason skullknight has been working on that sword of resonance is because he will never be able to strike down void with the current power of his sword.(the way void reflected his sword in the first eclipse) So, he has been collecting some behleit power so he can make that sword go though voids mirror shield. I mean if the sword can rip though time and layers of reality, its probably made to rip though that mirror too!
 

nir085

Horse and Armor
Speaking of Flora, I think there is a high possibility that Flora has something to do with the way SK is. She is a good friend of his after all and good friends become good friends only after you get to know them for a long time...in SK's case 1000 years. In volume 24 she asked SK if he pitied Gutts because he is like him (unless I got a bad translation). So maybe SK was originally branded but as the years passed and he got more acquainted with Flora's magic he passed into a deeper spirit realm or whatever than Gutts has. Perhaps he passed into such an odd realm, or such an odd part of a relam, that he lost most of his humanity, such as the need to sleep/eat/shit/die, but still retained his willpower. If he was originally branded, then there are three explanations why he doesn't bleed: 1.) the armor protects him 2.) Flora's magic 3.) he lost the brand at some point because of his mastery of Flora's magic and/or passing into a different realm
 

Herald of Yama

"It is pure Potential"
I seem to recall Flora saying something about "wishing I could see that shy smile of yours again".

Was Flora's actual age ever revealed? Based on the quote, she obviously knew SK when he still had a face. I'm guessing she may have been his lover, long, long ago. She most likely set him on the path of magery, and who knows, she might even have saved him from the destruction of Gaiseric's empire the way Skull Knight saved Guts and Casca from the Great Festival.
 
DemonX said:
Heres a theory:

Void is Gaiseric. He sacrifices his country for even greater power, as a godhand. However, Skullknight is a good friend of void and was sacrificed along witht he country. Skullknight escapes that eclipes (notice it resembles guts experience, sience flora said that history goes in a spiral, or in other words, similar to the past) and swears vengence on void, first by taking up his armor. Only that he never got a chance to kill void, and has been trying to kill void for 1000 years.

I dont know, it has been very speculated on that Gaiseric is really Void rather then skullknight but i am far from convinced yet, also I dont believe Miura would make the same story repeat the same concept again for when Gaiseric was ruling, i would expect something more creative then history reapeating itself near directly.
When Flora said history goes in a spiral rather then a perfect circle i think she meant the opposite of being similar to the past unlike a circle would be, and soon afterwards she says to skullknight something along the lines of "they are not limited to the same path you and i followed".

Though i do agree there might be something between Void and Skullknight from the past.
 

nir085

Horse and Armor
Herald of Yama said:
I seem to recall Flora saying something about "wishing I could see that shy smile of yours again".

Was Flora's actual age ever revealed? Based on the quote, she obviously knew SK when he still had a face. I'm guessing she may have been his lover, long, long ago. She most likely set him on the path of magery, and who knows, she might even have saved him from the destruction of Gaiseric's empire the way Skull Knight saved Guts and Casca from the Great Festival.
ROFL, a [possible] king and a witch being lovers? Now I've heard everything.
As for how Skull Knight got saved in the eclipse, assuming he was there, I seriously doubt it was Flora. First of all, I don't think witches live to be a 1000 years old because only immortals would live that long and if she was immortal, she wouldn't be nearing death. lol, besides, I can't exactly imagine someone like her getting to close to that eclipse and actually surviving. Her magic may have been strong back then, but not strong enough to fuck with the work of Godhand.

DemonX/Sparnage - Maybe Skullknight was never sacrificed to begin with. Perhaps Void was the brains behind a coup d'etat of Midland, failed, and then was imprisoned in the Tower of Rebirth. Void might have still loved Midland dearly and because of his love for Midland, he was able to sacrifice it to obtain greater power. But he must have hated Gaiseric/Skull Knight because he imprisoned him, so he couldn't sacrifice sk (just like the count couldn't sacrifice his enemy kuroi kenshi). The Void is Gaiseric theory seems interesting and it would be like Miura to pull a surprise like that, but that would go against the whole "wise man imprisoned in the tower" deal and I don't think Miura created that plot hint only to throw it out later (because most fans do remember that).
 

kimchan

"Should I be overcome by the vapors?
Herald of Yama said:
I seem to recall Flora saying something about "wishing I could see that shy smile of yours again".

Was Flora's actual age ever revealed? Based on the quote, she obviously knew SK when he still had a face. I'm guessing she may have been his lover, long, long ago. She most likely set him on the path of magery, and who knows, she might even have saved him from the destruction of Gaiseric's empire the way Skull Knight saved Guts and Casca from the Great Festival.

Flora was talking about Schierke in that quote, not Skull Knight.
 

kimchan

"Should I be overcome by the vapors?
KC said:
who is Schierke ???

Schierke is Flora's student, you know, the little witch that's joined Guts' group:

schierke.jpg



And I guess since Flora knew she was going to die soon, she wanted to see her student one more time (they seem to be pretty close). Right after she says that, Schierke senses something from Flora.
 
nir085 said:
ROFL, a [possible] king and a witch being lovers? Now I've heard everything.

1000 years ago depending of the religions.. Flora might not have been qualified as "witch"... maybe "magic" and "witchery" was the official religion 1000 years ago in the time of King Gaiseric...
 
DemonX said:
Heres a theory:
Void is Gaiseric.


A good thought... but if Slann mentioned SK as the King i wondered who SK is other than king Gaiseric himself...


We can gather some bits and pieces abt SK/Gaiseric history... First Let us refresh what was mentioned...

1) Charlotte mention Gaiseric always wear a fearsome skull looking mask when he goes to war, and guts suddenly remembered SK.

2) Mozgue mentioned that the wiseman which was torture by king Gaiseric summoned the four angel to bring destruction to his empire

3) Flora and SK had been friend for many years, maybe even 1000 yrs, also based on their conversation i feel they represent Scherike and Guts in the past...

4) The previous owner of the armor which Guts is wearing should be more or less SK... Especially what Zodd mention -about letting Guts walking into his path- ... He died as Scherike said



These are the points which i discovered are important to Gaiseric/SK history... Which give me a idea what happened...



SK was King Gaiseric, the wiseman was a rebel leader that aim to overthrown Gaiseric, but he failed and was tortured by Gaiseric until a red behelit came to him, he sacrificed his dream -of his future empire and everyone in it-... Soon the whole city was sarcrificed, Gaiseric put a brave fight to save his empire with the 4 elmentals/gods, nevertheless he perished in the end only to be save by Flora who summon his spirit and seal it in the armor. The wiseman as many speculate become Void later and thus the beginning of the thousand yrs resentment between them...



Not a very good speculation but this is the best i can think :p
 
B

Beave

Guest
You know, I was also thinking how fascinating it would be if Void=Guts in this equation, which is what you're sort of saying there Smith.-- that Void is the one that tore down the empire of Gaiseric in the name of vengance, which is pretty much what Guts would do too, if Griffith became King.

I often think it interesting how Guts has obviously become the mythic badguy in the scenario, socially speaking. Whereas Griffith is becoming the white knight in shining armor, in the eyes of the greater society. And even though Griffith is obviously evil in some ways, it would be very interesting if he really did bring peace and prosperity to Midland, something concretely positive and good. Basically, it would become a question of "do the ends justify the means?" If Griffith really could become a sort of Napoleonic figure, fighting for the right of "will to power" for the commoner-- would that allow for the killing of the Band of the Hawk?

Also, it is as if Miura is showing us the big events of history, but from the inside. I mean, we're always reading about such and such betrayal or murder or battle, or what not, but it generally feels sort of acceptable because society made such progress by the end of the event (say, the Industrial Revolution, or the huge battles by famous Generals that lead to later unifications and political stability, economic growth, and development of the arts)-- but to really feel for those that were sacrificed (both metaphorically and literally), which is what Miura does in Berserk, puts history into a whole different, more visceral perspective. Suddenly, the little details begin to matter more (the fate of people like Guts and Caska, and the band of the Hawk), where as the fate of society at large seems less important (say, if Griffith could become King and bring more equality and prosperity to Midland).

Basically, it would be very intersting to see these sort of historic presumptions of "empire building" and polictical manuevering and stability put into question. Or, the opposite could be true to-- that the belief in the greater importance of the individual could be put into question. Either way, the concept of Guts= Void and Griffith=Gaiseric has possibly interesting consequences. I don't mean to say that Miura would necessarily pick sides on the topic, but more that he would simply be proposing these sorts of questions if this theory was right.

I don't know if Miura would take Berserk to such dark lengths (i.e. sort of telling the story of Darth Vader from the beginning, showing how someone becomes evil in the eyes of history).... but then again I wouldn't put it past him.
 
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