Griffith and the Anti-Christ?

T

tonberrykid02

Berserk is genius....pure genius!
ive always thought that Berserk draws striking similarities to the Bible (specifically the book of Revelations).

the vision of the Hawk of Light = the Rapture

Griffith = the Anti-Christ (the AC is said to be loved by all, yet he is the true evil upon earth in disguise)

Midland = the world (thrown into an era of darkness by the AC)

God Hand = the horsemen (each represent some sort of plague or sin of humanity)

and there's other stuff to, but im tired.
 
DarkDragoon

DarkDragoon

Kuro no mahoutsukai
I cant really see Griffith's relation to the anti-christ. Griffith's intentions, while selfish, werent evil. He was simply trying to fulfil his dream. The anti-christ on the other hand is completely evil, a force of Satan, trying to steal the souls of good away from God, just because. I can, however see Griffith's relation to Satan. Satan once was good, and in pursuit of power turned evil.. just like Griffith. Satan is also considered very beautiful in appearence, very well at suading people and lurring them onto his side, and very smart.

Other then that I do see how Berserk does relate to the book of Revelation.
 
M

medievald00d

Guest
DarkDragoon said:
I cant really see Griffith's relation to the anti-christ. Griffith's intentions, while selfish, werent evil. He was simply trying to fulfil his dream. The anti-christ on the other hand is completely evil, a force of Satan, trying to steal the souls of good away from God, just because. I can, however see Griffith's relation to Satan. Satan once was good, and in pursuit of power turned evil.. just like Griffith. Satan is also considered very beautiful in appearence, very well at suading people and lurring them onto his side, and very smart.

Other then that I do see how Berserk does relate to the book of Revelation.
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I'm just curious, because I almost never use the word "evil." What does evil mean?
 
T

The_Fetus_Ninja

Lets go, bub!
pheonixfenix said:
I'm just curious, because I almost never use the word "evil." What does evil mean?
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e·vil ( P ) Pronunciation Key (vl)
adj. e·vil·er, e·vil·est
Morally bad or wrong; wicked: an evil tyrant.
Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful: the evil effects of a poor diet.
Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous: evil omens.
Bad or blameworthy by report; infamous: an evil reputation.
Characterized by anger or spite; malicious: an evil temper.

n.
The quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness.
That which causes harm, misfortune, or destruction: a leader's power to do both good and evil.
An evil force, power, or personification.
Something that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction: the social evils of poverty and injustice.

adv. Archaic
In an evil manner


www.dictionary.com
 
M

medievald00d

Guest
DarkDragoon said:
Um... basically its means very bad.
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wow. thats your definition of evil!?!?!

this is what we're calling Satan, what Bush is calling Saddam, what terrorists call us...and the best definition people can come up with is very bad!?!?!


The_Fetus_Ninja said:
e·vil ( P ) Pronunciation Key (vl)
adj. e·vil·er, e·vil·est
Morally bad or wrong; wicked: an evil tyrant.
Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful: the evil effects of a poor diet.
Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous: evil omens.
Bad or blameworthy by report; infamous: an evil reputation.
Characterized by anger or spite; malicious: an evil temper.

n.
The quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness.
That which causes harm, misfortune, or destruction: a leader's power to do both good and evil.
An evil force, power, or personification.
Something that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction: the social evils of poverty and injustice.

adv. Archaic
In an evil manner


www.dictionary.com
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better...now we're getting into morals, which is always a matter of upbringing and perspective...Some of those definitions could describe a lot of people though...and definitely Griffith (since this thread IS about griffith...)
 
K

Kyosuke

Azumanga Berserkoh!
By the way, yes Giffith does have some striking similarities to what the antichrist is supposed to be like. "Beautiful yet terrible", "his sould shall be as fruit to the people, and they shall feast driving away thought and doubt" "he shall riegn as king of the Earth" yada yada yada. Basically it all means that he's going to be extremely charismatic and seem very pure. But in fact with have "the heart of curruption" which does sound very similar to ol' Griffy. BUT where as Griffith comes with a sword (this is actually how Jesus second coming is described lamb=first time, Lion=second time) the anti-Christ is supposed to come with the olive branch of peace to unite all man.

So there are quite a few direct similarities but its also a bit different.

Oh yeah and I agree with what pheonixfenix was saying, that evil is a matter of interpretation and context (Aztec thought they were doing no wrong when they disembowled hundreds of infants for thier God) TO A POINT there are some things that so inherently abhorant to everyone that they realize its wrong, to me thats true evil. 'Cause lets face it to find true evil its like looking for a darker darkness in a world of night (and I'm a poet and didn't even know it ;D)
 
nomad

nomad

"Bring the light of day"
hmmmm a supreme being that cares only for his intentions, and having a angelic aperience... I don't see why not ;)
 
T

trenchteam

Now does this sound like Griff to you. ??? Im having a difficult time with the connection with Griff to the anti-christ.


Anti-Christ: The false Christ led and controlled by Satan that will be the great world leader during the tribulation, before the second coming of Christ. His objective is to deceive people into following him. He imitates Christ, trying to take the position of God. Also called "The man of sin". He is not Satan himself, but is controlled by Satan. At one point it seems that Satan actually enters him, so it is hard to separate the human man and Satan who controls him. At the beginning of the tribulation he will sign a peace agreement with Israel, and possibly with the whole world, setting himself up as the head.
 
ShinHell9

ShinHell9

I started on here when I was like 14...
The Dragon Reborn said:
Now does this sound like Griff to you. ??? Im having a difficult time with the connection with Griff to the anti-christ.


Anti-Christ: The false Christ led and controlled by Satan that will be the great world leader during the tribulation, before the second coming of Christ. His objective is to deceive people into following him. He imitates Christ, trying to take the position of God. Also called "The man of sin". He is not Satan himself, but is controlled by Satan. At one point it seems that Satan actually enters him, so it is hard to separate the human man and Satan who controls him. At the beginning of the tribulation he will sign a peace agreement with Israel, and possibly with the whole world, setting himself up as the head.
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Seems a bit like what Griffith's currently doing.
 
Walter

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
"The Dragon Reborn", the summary you provide isn't that far from the situation in Berserk. "Controlled by Satan" reminds me that the Beherit, if you do some poking around Google, is a tool used to summon "the devil". If that parallel holds true, then ... The Idea of Evil, anyone?

While the comparison isn't terribly farfetched, I severely doubt that Miura is constantly referring back to his "Anti-Christ 4 Dummeez" book. Rather, it's a theme in Berserk that has parallels to biblical text, but is not necessarily verbatim.
 
Vampire_Hunter_Bob

Vampire_Hunter_Bob

Cats are great
pheonixfenix said:
wow. thats your definition of evil!?!?!

this is what we're calling Satan, what Bush is calling Saddam, what terrorists call us...and the best definition people can come up with is very bad!?!?!better...now we're getting into morals, which is always a matter of upbringing and perspective...Some of those definitions could describe a lot of people though...and definitely Griffith (since this thread IS about griffith...)
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If your going to start a debate about evil take it somewhere else.
 
BiQ_

BiQ_

" ... "
The coming of Anti-Christ is supposedly going to mean an era of darkness... but how do we know what kind of king would Griffith be? Yes, he sacrificed his army to demons and did horrible thing to Caska and so on, but he didn't really have any choice if he wanted not to betray his dream. (except for the caska part, I guess) Call me frightening asshole or whatever, but I somehow can understand the logic that from Griffith's perspective, everyone in band of the hawks lived (and died) for the purpose of his dream.

But to the point, would Griffith's kinghood really be that bad? Surely we don't exactly like the bastard, but for the common-folk under the oppression of Ganishka, I can very well understand and accept them rooting for him all the way. I also have yet to see Griffith to be unnecessarily cruel or sadistic leader. The sacrificing of original BotH was necessary for his dream, and I also think that
1st Griffith != Femto != 2nd Griffith.

Or then I'm too tired to think clearly.
 
asmer

asmer

BiQ-- said:
But to the point, would Griffith's kinghood really be that bad? Surely we don't exactly like the bastard, but for the common-folk under the oppression of Ganishka, I can very well understand and accept them rooting for him all the way. I also have yet to see Griffith to be unnecessarily cruel or sadistic leader.
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I think that's why the Holy See's prophecy talks about the "blind white sheeps"!? That's part of the plan, so that people see Griffith as a savior.

At that point in the manga, people can see no evil in him, but I guess once the war is over, and "peace" is back in Midland, all the apostles in Griffith's army won't just go back home. They probably will ask for some reward, and at that point, I'm not sure if Midland won't turn into some living Hell for the "normal" humans?! :-\
 
J

JoshF

Oh boy, Christians will do anything to incoporate their beliefs into everything, even a manga coming from one of, if not the most, secular countries in the world. What's next, Gatts is Jesus?
 
D

darkbladez

JoshF said:
Oh boy, Christians will do anything to incoporate their beliefs into everything, even a manga coming from one of, if not the most, secular countries in the world.  What's next, Gatts is Jesus?
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You must not have known that alot of Japanese writers use religious contents in their stories. It's a way to address spirituality. If you would take the time and read the Book of Revelation, you would notice alot of similarities.

As for Japan being one of the most secular country in the world, I disagree. two-thousand years of practicing Buddhism and Shinto isn't what I call secular. In fact, there use to be a large amount of Catholics living in Japan. But they were all persecuted for their beliefs by the shogun and were either killed or driven out of their homeland. Ever heard of the Shimabara Rebellion?
 
DarkBlademaster

DarkBlademaster

Jesus cries when he looks at me.
darkbladez said:
You must not have known that alot of Japanese writers use religious contents in their stories. It's a way to address spirituality. If you would take the time and read the Book of Revelation, you would notice alot of similarities.

As for Japan being one of the most secular country in the world, I disagree.  two-thousand years of practicing Buddhism and Shinto isn't what I call secular. In fact, there use to be a large amount of Catholics living in Japan. But they were all persecuted for their beliefs by the shogun and were either killed or driven out of their homeland. Ever heard of the Shimabara Rebellion?
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Jesus christ....
 
ShinHell9

ShinHell9

I started on here when I was like 14...
JoshF said:
Oh boy, Christians will do anything to incoporate their beliefs into everything, even a manga coming from one of, if not the most, secular countries in the world.  What's next, Gatts is Jesus?
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That is true that alot of christians are narcacistic, but theres a high christian population in Japan as compared to what everyone thinks. Oda Nobunaga himself was a catholic, and even after Toyotomi and Tokugawa's persecution there was still a christian population.

Also It seems to me Michael the Arch angel also has alot of similarities with Griffith, espesially appearance, not sure to what significance this is.
 
Jon Schaffer 2

Jon Schaffer 2

Mar...
Eddie said:
Also It seems to me Michael the Ark angel also has alot of similarities with Griffith, espesially appearance, not sure to what significance this is.
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed how Micheal the Arch and Griffith are similar. But I didn't want to say it because someone would probably say something ignorant like, "I thought you didn't believe in (blah blah blah)"

I hear it often enough. :-\
 
ShinHell9

ShinHell9

I started on here when I was like 14...
darkbladez said:
Did I say anything wrong?
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Don't mind him, he's eitheir mocking the other guy or feels the same as the other guy, or maybe he feels you said to much to make your point...but don't mind him, if you mind his little comments then you're gonna have to find out alot of useless opinions

Jon the Madman said:
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed how Micheal the Arch and Griffith are similar. But I didn't want to say it because someone would probably say something ignorant like, "I thought you didn't believe in (blah blah blah)"

I hear it often enough.  :-\
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heh, well it's good to know i'm not the only one who thinks this...I'm going to look into it further once I'm done reading Angela's Ashes for school :{. I think there may be a parlell here, but when i was in italy I saw a painting of Michael, and something in me just clicked and I made the connection. Also we already know that Mirua is using the symbol of the holy spirit and other christian imagery in Berserk.
 
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