Author Topic: Episode 237  (Read 50071 times)

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Offline xechnao

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Re:Episode 237
« Reply #150 on: March 27, 2004, 05:39:50 AM »
1. Actually Skully was pretty clear on what he said.  I just think that you have a problem comprehending his words.

2. The flame Skully is referring to is the Od in Guts armour (the Berserk's armour) which never extinguishes.  That flame kind of feeds the Beast inside Guts, and the Beast will try to manifest whenever Guts wears the armour.

3. If Skully is not in the Berserk's armour (which he isn't), then one could assume that he is in another armour.  As for his prolonged existence, that hasn't been clarified yet.  But, it's probably similar to the same reasons that Flora existed so long.

4. No, Schierke simply said that the former owner of the Berserk's armour died.  At the time she said this, she didn't know who the Skullknight was.  Skullknight was the one she was referring to.  If you need more understanding, just re-read all the current translations. ;)  


Hey, I am wondering what flame you are dude ;)
Anyway you are making more assumptions trying to prove me wrong than the assumptions I did.

As you said, Schierke said that the former owner died and we agree that she was speaking about Skully.
But in BERSERK world being dead is not necessary the end.
I was also referring to the od, and as you said it also has been said it never extinguishes.
So, at this point, it comes a bit natural to think that the Berserk armour could be retaining the spirit of it's owner, if you also know(as we do) that the armour destroys the (physical) humanity of its owner ( you know, losing taste, seeing colours and all like that).
I could better take this as a hint than speculate that Skully is a wizard like Flora.
But I am not saying that I am right. Just saying that your case ain't worth your attitude.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2004, 05:42:38 AM by xechnao »
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline Nosferatubeast

Re:Episode 237
« Reply #151 on: March 27, 2004, 05:54:32 AM »
I don't have an attitude with you.  I was just trying to answer some of your questions, but since I now see that it won't lead anywhere.  I should just leave it at that. :P

Offline Griffith

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Re:Episode 237
« Reply #152 on: March 27, 2004, 06:02:54 AM »
Just saying that your case ain't worth your attitude.

Actually, it is, because these are F. A. C. T. facts: Skully wore the armor, the same armor Guts is wearing. Schierke asked him if he did, he said it was so. She even looked at the armor when she asked, it was a ver specific question with a specific answer. She even pointed out that it held sentimental value to Flora when asking Skully and he complimented her on her intelligence. What do you think he'd say now?

How do you say, "UUUGGHHHCHRIST!" in dramatic talk?

These aren't ideas or possibilities contrary to yours, they're facts contrary to your possible, not plausable, ideas. Skully may still be as he is today because he wore the armor, but he isn't wearing it now, Guts is (I won't even get into the "other" Berserk Armor issue, lets just focus on the known set). It's fine to be open-minded, but not to the point where your brain falls out of your head and starts wandering aimlessly.

Maybe before speculating and questioning people when they rightly correct you, you should get your facts straight. Nosferatu gave you good advice, you should take it and reread these things carefully before just posting what ever thought pops in your head. Rather than getting defensive and then smugly hiding behind the premise that anthing's possible.

I don't have an attitude with you.  I was just trying to answer some of your questions, but since I now see that it won't lead anywhere.  I should just leave it at that. :P

How I envy you. Don't pity me though, I'm dead already... EN MAE BERZERK'Z ARMAR!!!1110 LOL OMG!!! ;)

-Griffith

Offline xechnao

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Re:Episode 237
« Reply #153 on: March 27, 2004, 06:57:45 AM »

Schierke asked him if he did, he said it was so.
Excuse me, but I never said this didn't happen. I said that Skully being a bit mysterious (and you can't deny his style (even Guts has specifically addressed that) could have just settled it like that.

She even pointed out that it held sentimental value to Flora when asking Skully and he complimented her on her intelligence.
Skully mentions Schierke being smart after she concluded that Skully at some point put on the berserk armour.
And about the fact of Flora watching it dearly, although a very strong point, this doesn't necessarilly mean that Flora couldn't have been watching "dearly" that armour because it kinda reminded the one Skully *is wearing*(ipotesizing he is).
Imagine this: Schierke after circa 1000 years from now having a berserker armour in her custody(while Guts is who knows where).
Schierke could be watching that relique in a special way, in the eyes of her student.



Anyway, you are most propablly right and I am wrong. Just hate it when you come with an attitude and this propablly has made the debate so long.
Anyway as Nosferatu said before, I will just leave it to that.  :P
« Last Edit: March 27, 2004, 07:00:35 AM by xechnao »
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline roberto999

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Re:Episode 237
« Reply #154 on: March 27, 2004, 08:15:06 AM »
The fact that, when humans, Flora and Skully are such friends, is another point against the equation Skully = Gaisserick. Gaisserick is decribed like a cruel tyrant that had a old sage tortured. Is it possibe that Flora loved such a man? Also if the two (Gaisserick and Flora) were fast friends she would have no doubt be one of the top people in the empire and do you believe that the legends would not have mentioned her? "The skull-king and the witch" that is food for legend-mongers

Also is now clear that skully is what he is because of the armor , not because he was a god-hand.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2004, 08:18:01 AM by roberto999 »
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Offline Griffith

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Re:Episode 237
« Reply #155 on: March 27, 2004, 09:08:32 AM »
The fact that, when humans, Flora and Skully are such friends, is another point against the equation Skully = Gaisserick. Gaisserick is decribed like a cruel tyrant that had a old sage tortured. Is it possibe that Flora loved such a man? Also if the two (Gaisserick and Flora) were fast friends she would have no doubt be one of the top people in the empire and do you believe that the legends would not have mentioned her? "The skull-king and the witch" that is food for legend-mongers

That's all well and good, but...


BAM!

You're assuming Flora knew Skully, when and if he was Gaiseric, while he was still Emperor. That's not necessarily the case, and even if it was, thereís still more we donít know than do. People change, and characters in Berserk arenít too one dimensional anyway. Guts isnít exactly Mr. Sunshine, and I doubt Skully way any more chipper than he is now when he was human either. I really donít think Skully and Flora being friends when he was still human proves anything one way or the other.

Also is now clear that skully is what he is because of the armor , not because he was a god-hand.

Yeah, a most definite contributing factor, but he's still pretty mysterious all things considered. ;)

-Griffith

Offline xechnao

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Re:Episode 237
« Reply #156 on: March 27, 2004, 02:30:26 PM »
I would go furthermore to put in doupt that Skullknight was Gaiserick.
I believe we have three connection cases.
          1st is that Skully was Gaiserick indeed(because of the helmet).
[Edit:] 2nd that Gaiserck could be the corrispondent of Griffith of 1000 years ago
[Edit:] 3rd that Gaiserick could be Ganishka (emperor of death/emperor of terror)

So if  2 or 3 are the ones valid Skullknight can't be Gaiserick, can he?

The fact we ain't sure so far I believe is to know if Skully is a branded one like Guts or the one who sacrificed the people.
Anyway, I believe hints indicate more so far that he has been a branded like Guts by the way he has spoken about it to Guts and by what Zodd told him when Guts first appeared in the Berserk armour in front of them (hey, Griffith I also take this one as another hint that Skullknight is in some berserk armour  :)).
Spirits don't haunt him but maybe there is nothing to haunt in that armour he is(no warmth left as he said to Guts).
So if Skully was a branded one and like Guts we necessarilly need another legend. The legend of the one who sacrificed, like Griffith.

So far we only have the legend of Gaiserick and that of a wise man and we also know that Skully was propablly alive 1000 years ago and perhaps one like Guts.
There is still much confusion to be able to clearly tell who is who.
Feel free to add or debate  :)
« Last Edit: March 27, 2004, 03:52:36 PM by xechnao »
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline Suavo-kun

Re:Episode 237
« Reply #157 on: March 27, 2004, 03:37:38 PM »
I would go furthermore to put in doupt that Skullknight was Gaiserick.
I believe we have three connection cases.
1st and is that Skully was Gaiserick indeed(because of the helmet).
2nd that Skully could be the corrispondent of Griffith of 1000 years ago
3rd that Skully could be Ganishka (emperor of death/emperor of terror)

Yes
No
ABSOLUTELY NO.


This is why I usually skip your posts =D

Offline xechnao

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Re:Episode 237
« Reply #158 on: March 27, 2004, 03:43:24 PM »
Yes
No
ABSOLUTELY NO.


This is why I usually skip your posts =D

STOP right there!
You are right.  ;D

I made a silly mistake and confused the names. ::)
What I wanted to say is:
1 Skullknight been Gaiserick
2 Griffith been Gaiserick (not skullknight)
3 Ganishka been Gaiserick (not skullknight)

2,3 I confused Skullknight with Gaiserick
Now I am gona edit above post
« Last Edit: March 27, 2004, 03:56:20 PM by xechnao »
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline Olivier Hague

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Re:Episode 237
« Reply #159 on: March 27, 2004, 04:46:57 PM »
1st is that Skully was Gaiserick indeed(because of the helmet).
Or because Slan called him "king"?
Quote
3rd that Gaiserick could be Ganishka (emperor of death/emperor of terror)
-__-;

Offline xechnao

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Re:Episode 237
« Reply #160 on: March 27, 2004, 05:17:06 PM »
Or because Slan called him "king"?
Yes, that's a very good point in favour of 1st case (skullknight been emperor gaiserick) although I won't take it as the final proof of Skullknight been Gaiserick ( it could be a bitche's way of addressing men or Skullknight could have been deserving the royal title for some different reason)*.

-__-;

See just above in Griffith's post. There is a pic where Charlotte explains that Gaiserick was named as "the king who brought death".
Sounds a bit familiar to what Shilat said about Ganishka (the emperor of terror) if you also consider that at some place was named the demon king (don't remember who said that (maybe Rakhashas?)).



Anyway, I aint' saying that Skullknight is not Gaiserick. I am saying that Miura hasn't revealed everything yet and has managed that clues and hints are placed in the manga like that, that we can't feel too surprised if in the end something alternative from the main convinction is presented.
Things and callings like the egg of the emperor king, skullknight using Beherits in a strange way, the fact that Gaiserick was somebody like Griffith (emperor king) by the description Charlotte gave and Guts' remark(see above in Griffith's picture) all cast a confusing web around the answer that we still don't have.


*P.S: Here is another strange thing: I ain't saying that Skullknight is the king of Elfhelm but the emblem of the roses on his shield could have something to do with him.

And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline Griffith

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Re:Episode 237
« Reply #161 on: March 27, 2004, 06:30:39 PM »
You have an amazing ability to see what you want to see in things despite a total lack of evidence, and in ignorance to both the entire context and subtext of the story to which you resist for some reason. You're skeptisicim wouldn't be bad, but
you're alternatives to Skully being Gaiseric are terrible and rely on no firm basis, but the random connections you've made with things that aren't even directly related within the story. Miura would be a bad author to so suggest, almost to the point of hitting us over the head with it like a dead fish, that Skull Knight was Gaiseric only to make it Puck or whatever else is "possible." We already know there's no satisfying you, and making it harder is you have half of your facts wrong or confused, then you question the people that correct you or twist whatever the fact is so it fits your theory or at least doesn't hurt it (like the Slan "King" remark). If Skully came right out and said, "I was the Emperor Gaiseric." you'd probably find a way to say that doesn't really prove anything, such as the "talking dramatic" thing with the armor.

See why people have such an attitude with you?

-Griffith
« Last Edit: March 27, 2004, 06:50:08 PM by Griffith »

Offline theblakeman

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Re:Episode 237
« Reply #162 on: March 27, 2004, 08:05:54 PM »
 ;D ;Di agree with xechnao  ganishka is gaiserick  ;D  :-X  :'(  :-*

Seriously though, why would the emperor of a Rome-esque empire evolve into a giant Arabia-esque emperor?

Offline DemonX

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Re:Episode 237
« Reply #163 on: March 27, 2004, 08:32:41 PM »
bah. Everyone knows this man is gaiserick.

I gave you fair warning! Now I am going to make a fool of myself in front of everybody! >:( Feel the ANGST! >:(

Offline xechnao

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Re:Episode 237
« Reply #164 on: March 27, 2004, 08:34:25 PM »
;D ;Di agree with xechnao  ganishka is gaiserick  ;D  :-X  :'(  :-*

Seriously though, why would the emperor of a Rome-esque empire evolve into a giant Arabia-esque emperor?

I believe you misunderstood me. When I am saying Gaiserick been Ganishka or Griffith I am not saying that physically are the same person (which is true in the Skullknight-Gaiserick connection) but that represent corrisponding roles as far as Karma is concerned in the period of the cycle of one thousand years.



You have an amazing ability to see what you want to see in things despite a total lack of evidence, and in ignorance to both the entire context and subtext of the story to which you resist for some reason. You're skeptisicim wouldn't be bad, but
you're alternatives to Skully being Gaiseric are terrible and rely on no firm basis, but the random connections you've made with things that aren't even directly related within the story. Miura would be a bad author to so suggest, almost to the point of hitting us over the head with it like a dead fish, that Skull Knight was Gaiseric only to make it Puck or whatever else is "possible." We already know there's no satisfying you, and making it harder is you have half of your facts wrong or confused, then you question the people that correct you or twist whatever the fact is so it fits your theory or at least doesn't hurt it (like the Slan "King" remark). If Skully came right out and said, "I was the Emperor Gaiseric." you'd probably find a way to say that doesn't really prove anything, such as the "talking dramatic" thing with the armor.

See why people have such an attitude with you?

-Griffith

  I believe I am not the only one who feels that maybe Skullknight is not for sure Gaiserick, and you know that.

 Skullknight has never said it so far: " I am Emperor Gaiserick" even as much dramatic you want to be about it, talking against my case and trying to excuse your attitude.

 In your pic above Guts himself says that Gaiserick's persona sounds like Griffith, which is the conqueror king. On the other hand Zodd asked Skully if Guts will take his path, the one of hell. Now, while Gaiserick sounds more like Griffith (or Ganishka), Guts story sounds more like Skully's.
 I believe this is something that makes impression and this is the main basis the of the doupt of Skully being Gaiserick.
 
Anyway, Ganishka right now has almost insignificant importance about the current story. But I believe sometime in the future it will be more clear what happened 1000 years ago in a way that it will make sense about the whole story. This is what I am trying to say first place. That we still have not enough grounds to describe this, which is the clear picture of the mysteries so far: Gaiserick, the wise man, the sacrificed in the tower of rebirth, Godhand and Skullknight.
Elfhelm I believe will be another station of the net of mystery to the story so far (if they indeed go there). That is if other stranger things don't happen or get revealed till our friends manage to reach it (again, that is if this happens).
« Last Edit: March 27, 2004, 08:49:54 PM by xechnao »
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline Griffith

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Re:Episode 237
« Reply #165 on: March 27, 2004, 09:02:18 PM »
I believe I am not the only one who feels that maybe Skullknight is not for sure Gaiserick, and you know that.

Wow, other people are wrong too? That means a lot to me.

Okay, yeah right, thereís still a slim possibility theyíre not the same, and that thereís some incredibly complicated details to Gaisericís story that will reveal this. Fine, my bad, but of course, Skully being Gaiseric is the most likely and heavily suggested scenario. There really isnít any other alternative presented within the plot without going into pure speculation. You have to literally make shit up to explain why Skully isnít just Gaiseric. So, why bother? Why doubt the obvious, what Miura wants us to think, for the obtuse and completely hypothetical? Itís ridiculous, thereís no need for it, and itís very frustrating when people come on here and say ďThis is more proof that Skully wasnít GaisericĒ and then they present, and usually misrepresent, some new piece of circumstantial information, that doesnít even have anything to do with Skully being Gaiseric or not all. Of course, they first have to ignore or rationalize everything else in the story suggesting they are the same; you've done this quite a bit the past few posts BTW. But why? What's the point? Why go through the trouble of being such a hard on all the time when you're not going to prove anything and only confuse people?

-Griffith

P.S. Forest for the fucking trees.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2004, 09:06:03 PM by Griffith »

Offline cmz

Re:Episode 237
« Reply #166 on: March 27, 2004, 11:23:30 PM »
I believe I am not the only one who feels that maybe Skullknight is not for sure Gaiserick, and you know that.

In your pic above Guts himself says that Gaiserick's persona sounds like Griffith, which is the conqueror king.


I don't understand your rationale for anything you've said thus far.  I don't think we need to discuss the numerous parallels between Guts and Skullknight, over and over.  I don't think that Gaeserick was similar in quality to Griffith... at all (even though so little has been said about the old emperor).  I will just say this (and it has probably been stated in the past), but, Gaiserick was obviously a ruthless fighter/leader on the battlefield(s) that no doubt kicked everyone's ass.  I have no doubt he always won considering what he once had/built.  Does this remind you of anyone in particular... ?

Offline theblakeman

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Re:Episode 237
« Reply #167 on: March 28, 2004, 12:01:06 AM »
Since Gaiseric was The Emperor of Death, I think that when he put on the armor, it shaped like a skull and skeleton-like feature, and that it eventually destroyed him and stole his humanity and then he summoned Godhand you know, Godhand granted him a second chance in turn for his Empire. Then later, after he sacrificed his Empire, he went off traveling somewhere, and he met Flora who he left the armor with and went to go get revenge on Godhand for decieving him or whatever Void did to make him so damn angry. So basically, Flora must have affected his being since Guts does not respond to him being an apostle. Maybe it has something to do with the new armor he wears, or maybe a spell or something made his existence less evil, or maybe he is alike Ganishka, who is a rebel apostle and doesn't follow the destiny Godhand lays out.

Offline roberto999

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Re:Episode 237
« Reply #168 on: March 28, 2004, 12:02:57 AM »
Or because Slan called him "king"?-__-;
Emperors and Kings are not the same thing
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Offline dwarfkicker

Re:Episode 237
« Reply #169 on: March 28, 2004, 12:21:07 AM »
Emperors and kings are the same thing.  Aren't they? ???

Offline Nosferatubeast

Re:Episode 237
« Reply #170 on: March 28, 2004, 12:41:24 AM »
Emperors and kings are the same thing.  Aren't they? ???

Emperor>King

kings rule a kingdom
a bunch of kingdoms= an empire
an empire is ruled by an emperor
See the difference! :-\

Offline xechnao

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Re:Episode 237
« Reply #171 on: March 28, 2004, 12:49:57 AM »
Okay, yeah right, thereís still a slim possibility theyíre not the same, and that thereís some incredibly complicated details to Gaisericís story that will reveal this. Fine, my bad, but of course, Skully being Gaiseric is the most likely and heavily suggested scenario. There really isnít any other alternative presented within the plot without going into pure speculation. You have to literally make shit up to explain why Skully isnít just Gaiseric. So, why bother? Why doubt the obvious, what Miura wants us to think, for the obtuse and completely hypothetical? Itís ridiculous, thereís no need for it, and itís very frustrating when people come on here and say ďThis is more proof that Skully wasnít GaisericĒ and then they present, and usually misrepresent, some new piece of circumstantial information, that doesnít even have anything to do with Skully being Gaiseric or not all. Of course, they first have to ignore or rationalize everything else in the story suggesting they are the same; you've done this quite a bit the past few posts BTW. But why? What's the point? Why go through the trouble of being such a hard on all the time when you're not going to prove anything and only confuse people?

-Griffith


I allready tried to tell you and don't know how many times I' ll have to tell it again:
Skullknight doesn't exactly fit the description of Gaiserick we got. Even if it was him, a lot must have happened that we need to find out yet to understand the story.
Anyway, it's true that the description of King Gaiserick of 1000 years ago, resembles a bit his character with that of present time Ganishka or Griffith perhaps(and not Guts that much I'ld say). If Karma repeats itself in a fashion, the most legendary figures propably known will be the ones that corrispond to Griffith or Ganishka 1000 years back(that it depends who will become more famous after all (my bet is on Griffith, but we still don't know who will win the fight))
In the same time Skullknight's path resembles that of Guts.
Although these things are vague, I believe the comlications they bring on are noticeable. Saying Ganishka is Skullknight at this point, could finally be true, but it is still not a solid anchor-point for the exploration or speculation of the story, unlike the fact we might be tempted to think it is.
This is why I talked about it first place and it ended in a flame war.
Does it worth it? I would say, no. So why? It's the attitude problem I'ld say that rides these boards.
Anyway, for me -naugh said about the Gaiberib and Skullkick.
The End.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2004, 12:54:57 AM by xechnao »
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline Griffith

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Re:Episode 237
« Reply #172 on: March 28, 2004, 01:10:04 AM »
As Flora said, causality is a spiral, not a clusterfuck.

This does go back to that lame thread about who matches who from 1000 years ago, I remember I had to remind everyone that it doesn't matter and the whole process gets really stupid when you try to make it math.  Since it's a spiral and not a circle, cross paralells aren't out of the question. So Gaiseric/Skully can easily paralell both Guts and Griffith without it meaning some big problem, that requires us to for God knows why think that Skully wasn't Gaiseric despite the evidence to the contrary.

Attitude? No, I simply have evidence supporting my statements. That's why I act like I'm so damn right, I'm quoting facts that support my point. I'll tell you one thing, if Skull Knight did come out and say he was never Gaiseric and explained what really happened 1000 years ago, you wouldn't see me on here lamely arguing the contrary.

-Griffith

P.S. Yes, Roberto, a King is not an Emperor, but as Xechnao said, Slan was probably being a bitch. And her calling him King, a much broader and general term for a sovereign, could likely be just her way of spiting him.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2004, 01:13:45 AM by Griffith »

Offline DemonX

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Re:Episode 237
« Reply #173 on: March 28, 2004, 01:12:38 AM »
I allready tried to tell you and don't know how many times I' ll have to tell it again:
Skullknight doesn't exactly fit the description of Gaiserick we got. Even if it was him, a lot must have happened that we need to find out yet to understand the story.
Anyway, it's true that the description of King Gaiserick of 1000 years ago, resembles a bit his character with that of present time Ganishka or Griffith perhaps(and not Guts that much I'ld say). If Karma repeats itself in a fashion, the most legendary figures propably known will be the ones that corrispond to Griffith or Ganishka 1000 years back(that it depends who will become more famous after all (my bet is on Griffith, but we still don't know who will win the fight))
In the same time Skullknight's path resembles that of Guts.
Although these things are vague, I believe the comlications they bring on are noticeable. Saying Ganishka is Skullknight at this point, could finally be true, but it is still not a solid anchor-point for the exploration or speculation of the story, unlike the fact we might be tempted to think it is.
This is why I talked about it first place and it ended in a flame war.
Does it worth it? I would say, no. So why? It's the attitude problem I'ld say that rides these boards.
Anyway, for me -naugh said about the Gaiberib and Skullkick.
The End.


Jesus christ xechnao, take your guesses to speculation nation. I hardly thing anything u said here has somthing to do with chapter 237.
I gave you fair warning! Now I am going to make a fool of myself in front of everybody! >:( Feel the ANGST! >:(

Offline Sparnage

Re:Episode 237
« Reply #174 on: March 28, 2004, 01:20:29 AM »
Well, with any luck within the next few months prehaps skullknights origins will come out and this will no longer be a matter of opinion.