[WHINE] The whine thread

conan

Until next time...
I've been a fan of Berserk for a very short time compared to many of you.
I started reading the manga only last year and saw the anime for the first time in 2001. That doesn't mean I love it any less. In fact, Berserk is my favorite anime and, as a action figure reporter, I love to write about the numerous statues and action figs Yamato USA brings over to the USA (thanks to Art of War of course!)

I love the information and wealth of knowledge this site has and the forum members here know more about Berserk than just about anybody I know (as a collective).

I realize it's the "mods" forum and they can do what they want, but it bothers me that some of the mods and posters here reply in very abrupt and rude ways to new forum members and those with questions (myself included).

I've had to email new forum members who have become discouraged about the way this forum is handled and encourage them to come back and keep posting, but they seem to dislike it here...

If you all want a better community, it needs to begin at the top and work it's way down...

I know what it is like to moderate a forum and I know how stupid, idiotic, and repetitive some of the questions and posts seem, but the mods here need to lighten up a little and HELP rather than DISCOURAGE new forum members. And the other members need to ENCOURAGE other members here as well, don't insult them for not knowing how to use the search or asking a question you know.

Again, I enjoy this forum, but people here need to lighten up and remember it's a "community" and there are always slow members of a community. They need our help and support, not our hate and discontent.
 

chugoku sensei

Too good!
I agree with you conan, but I think there is also something to be said for not posting stupid questions in a completely unrelated topic thread. I'm a noob myself, in terms of becoming a posting member, but I think questions should be directed in private messages. Interrupting an exciting discussion with questions about scans or whatever is just annoying to everyone else on the forum. Also, people will get alot of their questions answerred just by looking around more carefully.
 

Oltobaz

Cancer no Deathmask
Conan, you need to be more specific. What are you talking about? You imply some of us may have been rude and abrupt to YOU, but you do not mention any examples, it's hardly fair.
 

Lithrael

Remember, always hold your apple tight
conan said:
I've been a fan of Berserk for a very short time compared to many of you.

It's really not about seniority here, at all.  Some people just think it is, because most of the core group has been around since dirt was invented.

It's about making an effort to post in a reasonably intelligent way, and that..  is pretty much it.  That's all.  That's the test Paradise failed.

[quote author=conan]
I love the information and wealth of knowledge this site has and the forum members here know more about Berserk than just about anybody I know (as a collective).
[/quote]

Agreed!   ;D

[quote author=conan]
I realize it's the "mods" forum and they can do what they want ...
[/quote]

It's not the mods' forum.  It's Walter's.  The mods are just lowly creatures like you and I that have taken on the mantle of authority, pinned on their badges and sworn to clean up this town.   8)

[quote author=conan]
I've had to email new forum members who have become discouraged about the way this forum is handled and encourage them to come back and keep posting, but they seem to dislike it here...[/quote]

This is what I don't get.  If they don't like being told off, why do we want them here?  They can go hang out at Evil Genius's board and add their thoughts to 'g4tz vs superman.'

[quote author=conan]
The mods here need to lighten up a little and HELP rather than DISCOURAGE new forum members.  And the other members need to ENCOURAGE other members here as well, don't insult them for not knowing how to use the search or asking a question you know.[/quote]

Hm, could you show me where anyone has been insulted for not using search?  You could use the search function to find it...   ;)

I am very VERY shy myself so the fact that I post here is all the proof I need that we are not too harsh or discouraging.

[quote author=conan]
Again, I enjoy this forum, but people here need to lighten up and remember it's a "community" and there are always slow members of a community.  They need our help and support, not our hate and discontent.[/quote]

Perhaps you came in at a bad time.  For quite a while moderation was extremely lenient, a few very obnoxious members stirred up the shit, and we lost a beloved if somewhat cranky older member over it.  So now the mods are establishing a new level of moderation.

I still have seen nobody shouted down in a cruel way.  Take Kyoke for example, he joined up with a fun attitude but a little bit too obnoxious, everyone said 'jeez, knock it off,' after a while he did and settled right in.  
 

SaiyajinNoOuji

I'm still better than you
Are you butt hurt cause Walter and Co. pretty much called you an idiot in your "Where do I get Berserk Volume 27" thread?

Listen dude, you have to understand that Walter and Co are well aware that this community here at Skullknight needs to be "fixed"

The core of what needs to happen to fix these problems are it's members. Yea we may be testy but shit, we end up answering the same fucking questions to all the stupid questions that are asked. Where do I get this and this chapter? Use the fucking search function. I am not an "Old sk00l" member like some of these people but I already get aggitated when people as the same shit.

Also if you were dealing with these same kinds of questions for 5 years as Walter has stated, I believe you would be a little perterbed and snappy about stupid requests that can be easily answered if the user would put in a little effort.

So there is a little food for thought.
 

Herald of Yama

"It is pure Potential"
I remember my experience as a n00b, asking for information from other members concerning Guin Saga (A series Miura-sensei quoted as one of his influences.), information which COULD have been(and ultimately, was :-[) found with a simple Google Search. As I recall, I was told off for asking for 'scans'. I had a cold at the time, so I retaliated with a mock-serious death threat. Then, I searched for my information, found it,  and posted a link to it for anyone else who was interested. Why did I do this? Mainly because at the time I was FED UP with a community that had fallen into a rut of answering the same ignorant question so many times that they STOPPED LISTENING and started throwing out insults ad nauseum to any question asked by anyone with a post count lower than fifty. I wanted to try and provide information to anyone like me who was interested. If this sounds particularly arrogant, critical and harsh, well, it is. :p It is also moot. Since that time, alot changed. In some ways, I think the criticism people receive publicly in these forums is a little less useless. By 'useless', I mean demeaning and derogatory without giving instruction on ways to improve. Odd as it may seem, alot of that went away during the Reign of teh sKulL l0Rd, probably since he only allowed himself to act that way and IP banned anyone else that did. Admittedly, I wouldn't have the patience to put up with as much crap as Walter has. The admins seem fair to me, as they often offer constructive criticism to first time offenders. Beyond that, the rest of the community (myself included) are a mixed lot-some have the patience of Job, others throw a snit over the slightest infraction. Most fall somewhere in between. Fix the Board? I think that's a work in progress-we're not there yet, but we'll keep trying.
 

conan

Until next time...
The biggest thing is the attitude people have here over their knowledge.

This forum has a VAST amount of Berserk knowledge and YES, it is bothersome to anwser the same questions over and over, but what did Walter expect when he started this?

Not everyone is going to know how to do a proper search.
Not everyone is going to know how to find all the info you all have.

Again, I'm not "butt hurt" cuz Walter told me off. I think his attitude is justifiable, but not necessary. He could have helped me, instead, he decided to show his back side.

THAT is the type of thing that ruins a good community.

A few days ago, a post about the video game got locked because the mod (whoever it was) thought the forum member (another noobie) was being a jerk. If the mods here think THAT'S bad, they haven't seen anything...
Though the noobie was a little rude, he asked a question that deserved an answer. (though, yes, he could have found out about it had he done a search). Again, insert a little TACT here and there, and this community would be a lot more productive. I emailed this forum member and he was pissed about the way he was treated here.

I try to ENCOURAGE Berserk fans to spread the word about this and other Berserk communities. There really aren't that many worth surfing IMO.
But if people here are going to be a$$es for no reason, it's no wonder the forums are hurting...

All it takes is a little time, and if you don't have time for it, then don't post.

Jess

Also, you are right about the PM function. If something is personal, a PM is probably the best way to do it. But if it is something good, and you don't think there is a reason the other person would mind, I think it's fine to post questions to specific members...especially if it helps others anwser their questions too!
 

DarkBlademaster

Jesus cries when he looks at me.
But, do you expect everyone to restrain themselves from talking bad about you? Like you said, nobody's perfect, and lots of people are just looking for an excuse to say something.
 

SaiyajinNoOuji

I'm still better than you
So are you saying that you don't know how to do a proper search? Anyways, if you don't like how Walter is running it, oh-well deal with it. If 98.9% of people here are fine the way Walter is running it, you the 1.1% doesn't really matter. Well change that, it does to a point but not to where he has to turn the whole board upside down.

Guess what, it's the internet, it is filled to the brim with asses, if you haven't figured that out, then don't go on here, people don't say nice things. let's get real here.

Let me modify this a bit...

What I mean is there tolerance for stupid questions that have been repeated over and over and over and over and over again have gone to pretty much 1% if that. So if you come here and this happens to you, well sorry, you just came here at the wrong time, and another thing, what other manga forums have been around and kept the same members for 5 years as here? I am sure there are going to be a few but for the majority, they wither up and die.

So just learn to except this and encourage people to use common sense and to put in some effort before they make a thread. Cause you never know, it may already exist! :-*
 

Lithrael

Remember, always hold your apple tight
conan said:
He could have helped me, instead, he decided to show his back side.Â

THAT is the type of thing that ruins a good community.

Yeah, like being told to serve yourself ruins a good buffet.

[quote author=conan]
I try to ENCOURAGE Berserk fans to spread the word about this and other Berserk communities. There really aren't that many worth surfing IMO.
But if people here are going to be a$$es for no reason, it's no wonder the forums are hurting...
[/quote]

Oh - SK is hurting? First I've heard of it. Hurting for what? No lack of posts or discussion here last time I checked.

The problem we have is with people posting too much (too much nonsense), not too little. IMO the reason SK is worth surfing is because we have a more exclusive atmosphere. What's wrong with welcoming the many to read and the few to post? We have threads here with over 80 views for every post, threads with under 100 posts and over 3000 views - threads stuffed to the gills with info and interesting shit. What is it you think would be improved by people feeling more welcome the moment they walked in the door asking for stuff?

We are a little bit more jerks than necessary, but honestly IMO it makes it more fun, having a taste of sarcsm and snark, it's entertaining to see some wit being flexed. Think of it like a local custom, don't take it so personally. I'm taking the criticism of SK's atmosphere personally because it's my hangout - I'm comfortable here, and I don't want it to change the same way you do.

I appreciate your positive attitude, I just think it's misplaced. I fully agree it's cool to get more people to come and look around here. But if they don't like what they see, let them leave. There are other boards.

And of course, everyone can do whatever they like by PM. I know for a fact that this board is more forgiving in private than it is in public, I've helped and been helped many times through PMs. And I think that's a great way to do it. No Flandersizing of the community tone necessary at all. Neighboroonie.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Quite the whine eh? I would have made huge quotes, but other members replied well enough already...

conan said:
I love the information and wealth of knowledge this site has and the forum members here know more about Berserk than just about anybody I know (as a collective).

The interesting information here isn't provided by all of the members, but by several of them. It's the sad truth. Now, in order for the wealth of knowledge and all to be seen, the unvaluable things have to be toned down. I think it's simple enough for you to understand.

conan said:
I realize it's the "mods" forum and they can do what they want

There are 2 moderators here: TheSkyTraveller and Franz, and they surely don't own the forum.

conan said:
some of the mods and posters here reply in very abrupt and rude ways to new forum members and those with questions (myself included).

There isn't any rude reply that hasn't been triggered by a rude post in the first place.

conan said:
I've had to email new forum members who have become discouraged about the way this forum is handled and encourage them to come back and keep posting, but they seem to dislike it here...

If you mean the moron that recently "asked" about the PS2 game, he's banned, so he's not coming back for sure.

Herald of Yama said:
As I recall, I was told off for asking for 'scans'.

You had no luck, you registered at the wrong time. Stupid people stupidly answered you. I didn't approve of it (wasn't in charge). If someone had to whine about a rude greeting, it would be you indeed.

conan said:
Not everyone is going to know how to do a proper search.
Not everyone is going to know how to find all the info you all have.

And they're always told how to, directed toward the information, or at least informed that it has been answered already.

conan said:
Again, I'm not "butt hurt" cuz Walter told me off. I think his attitude is justifiable, but not necessary. He could have helped me, instead, he decided to show his back side.

Didn't I help you? Didn't I answer your every question kindly, even the stupid ones, and politely asked you to change your attitude? Of course I did, while some of the stuff was painfully obvious, such as a section of the board named after what you were searching for, and dedicated to it.

So now, what do you have to say? If you think you will impose your magnificent views of the world here, you're making a mistake.

conan said:
THAT is the type of thing that ruins a good community.

What ruins a good community is being too lenient with idiots, especially when they lack any form of humility or self-criticism.

conan said:
A few days ago, a post about the video game got locked because the mod (whoever it was) thought the forum member (another noobie) was being a jerk.

1) He was a jerk, and his thread was non-sensical, with a ridiculous poll, for example. I had to correct half of it before it made any sense.
2) He was answered kindly by Kyoke.
3) I modified Kyoke's post in a way that it would include all the necessary information.
4) I locked the thread because its purpose had been fulfilled, and that other threads on the subject existed in the Merchandise section.

conan said:
Though the noobie was a little rude, he asked a question that deserved an answer. (though, yes, he could have found out about it had he done a search).

He got it, perfectly clear, and I even explained it to him by PM again in detail, while he was insulting me. You obviously don't know what you are talking about.

conan said:
I emailed this forum member and he was pissed about the way he was treated here.

Haha, yeah, because I deleted his pathetic attempt at flame (insults following each other randomly) as soon as it was posted. Really, if there was a bad example to take, it would have been this one. You've got no credibility.

conan said:
But if people here are going to be a$$es for no reason, it's no wonder the forums are hurting...

What's hurting me is people whining because they're butt hurt, to quote Saiya. I'm losing patience with you, conan. I've told you to keep in line a couple of times now, and all you did was whine and showing a poor sense of humor.

I advise you to be very careful with your next post, and I hope you will change your attitude to a more fitting one, so that I won't have to take action in a way that wouldn't benefit you.
 

nomad

"Bring the light of day"
Well if this isn't the nicest thread yet? I've seen and made many shitty threads before, but this one reminds me of all PL's threads.  Conan... seriously, is it really THAT difficult to go to the "search" link and write down whatever it is that you are looking? If it is, then you or whoever it is have serious issues. But let's just say for your own defense that people don't know what a web community is; Is it really that hard to read? I myself have made mistakes here in the past; but getting chewed up by an Admin (off all people) HAS to be for a reason. "OMG he insulted me!!!"... "What should I do?!?!". Good question eh? Unfortunately people decide to retaliate instead of considering the fact that someone that has been here for YEARS + knows more than you about the rules in this website and is trying to make people like you understand your role.

"Why are they so mean?!?!?!" Believe it or not at the present time, Aazealh and Walter have been EXTREMELY patient. Current example?... check out eeeerrrr let's see. OOO yeah! About almost every single thread in this session. Look for it... you can't miss it. Put yourself in their position. Devote lots' of your own free time to make this a better community for the fans. On top of that make an Encyclopedia that explains about every single topic you can possibly imagine, making it extremely easy for you and everyone else here to feed that "Berserk hunger" you have. BUT WAIT! Translate every single episode of Berserk for the non-Japanese readers, and as a nice complement will also include about a list of dozens of arguments that proves nothing but a waste of time and effort. Yeah, very rude of them those bastards.  

In conclusion, if it's really that hard for you to swallow, I suggest for you to go to your profile, look for a small link on your left that says "Delete this Account" and move on to a most happy non-argumentative forum. Get with the program, or get the fuck out.

P.S.

boohoo.jpg

:-*
 
Haiz, why bother explaining to such people?

I am no mod or admin, just a member who had spent nearly 2 year in this community, i had seen what is happening during this period of time, and i fully agree the decision made by mod/admins whether it is promoting or deleting any account... it is completely justifiable...



This how the board work Conan... Take it or leave it...
 
I haven't really had any problems here. Although I am still a noob. I have noticed people (noobs) ask stupid questions and they have gotten answers that they do not desire. But was it has been repeated so many times before, just search. Its really not hard.

If you don't like how they do things here, than you can get the hell out. Its there forum.

Lithrael is right we do have a more exclusive atmosphere, which prevents these forums from turning into crap. 1337

If i ask a stupid question or post something stupid then please guys be "mean" and show me how stupid i am.
 

conan

Until next time...
I'm done posting in this thread as I feel I've been "baited" into saying something I shouldn't. Saying dang near anything here would probably give Aazealh more than enough reason to BAN me, but, as I've said before...
I enjoy the wealth of info you all have and enjoy sharing my own bit of knowledge too.

As a teacher and student, I know there are no such things as "stupid questions." (may seem cliche, but it's not). These new (novice) Berserk fans are looking for guidance and I'm hope Skullknight.net can give them that...it has helped me, that is for sure.

Again, I hope the attitudes on this board improve. I believe I've been extremely straight forward, which may be too much for some of you, but I understand not everyone sees this forum the same way I do...

Jess C. Horsley
 
D

darkbane

Guest
conan said:
I know there are no such things as "stupid questions."

As the expression goes, no, "but there are stupid people who ask them". And no, I'm not implying anything about anyone by saying that.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Since the Xechnao wars, I've come to accept that an alternate opinion is very beneficial to the community. I vaguely understand where you're coming from Conan. But you have to think practically on how to manage several new members all asking the same questions.

Olivier's resignment and your persistence has led to me working on the Encyclopedia again. Specifically, the FAQ section 8) The progress can be viewed here:

The new and improved FAQ (Still under construction)

For additions/corrections post here.
 

BiQ_

" ... "
I would also like to point out the fact that in the long run it is better that people in general would learn to search for the answers themselves... and I mean that in a very practical sense. Consider the following:

JohnDoeTheNoob has a question.

Now, JohnDoeTheNoob has basically two ways to find out the answer: look it up from FAQ's/use the search engine OR take the trouble of posting the question to some forum and wait for someone to answer.

In my experience as BiQTheNoob (on several occasions around the net) I have found out that the time between starting to think about a question and the moment I have the answer is usually significantly shorter when I did not wait for someone to answer my question but searched for the answer myself. Of course, there is a certain social interaction when people can actually communicate "directly" to each other, but I seriously hope that no one here has to rely on forum posting as his/her only social life. Another thing that might make people want to post their obviously-answered-before-zillion-times questions is pumping up their post count, but that is IMHO even worse reason to post on forums, and very much deserving of cold-hearted replies.

So, IMHO it is very beneficial for all parties involved to encourage people search for answers instead of posting their questions. Even if that might sometimes make some new users feel neglected. Hey, seriously; people who get all frustrated for things like not having their question immediately answered on some message board run by people on their free time should consider getting a life. IMNSHO I'm not even being harsh when saying this.
 

DarkBlademaster

Jesus cries when he looks at me.
My own whine thread

Aazealh said:
What's annoying is people that posts when they've got nothing interesting to say. *hint hint*

In whos opinion? Im not one for whining, but its kind of staggering when the last 20 posts out of the shooting in the breeze section has been deleted.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Re: My own whine thread

DemonX said:
In whos opinion? Im not one for whining, but its kind of staggering when the last 20 posts out of the shooting in the breeze section has been deleted.

What are you talking about? What posts?

PS: And in my fucking opinion, dumbass.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Re: My own whine thread

DemonX said:
In whos opinion? Im not one for whining, but its kind of staggering when the last 20 posts out of the shooting in the breeze section has been deleted.

I think you're mistaken, or trying to incite a rebellion. Both Aaz and I have been too busy in the past weeks to bother "correcting" anyone in the Breeze. Could you be referring accidentally to the 250 thread?

And anyway, 20 posts in Shootin the Breeze? That's like a hotdog thrown down a hallway...
 
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