Author Topic: Why so hard on Casca!?!  (Read 14422 times)

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Offline puella

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Re: Why so hard on Casca!?!
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2002, 07:22:20 PM »
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 The reason I'm hard on Casca is that the ambitions she had for herself was so low.  I know must have been hard to be a woman living back then especially when women where supposed to cling to some man to find their place in the world (wife/mother) but she took it to the extreme.  Her whole reason in life was to be used by Griffiith so I find it hard to feel sorry for her.  She kinda got what she wanted.  She was there when Griffith needed her the most (making Guts look like a bitch and being Griffith's vessal back into the real world).  I feel sorry for Guts because at least when he found out he was a tool for Griffith he at least got out and tried to be his own man.  Guts wanted more out of his life and he wanted Griffith's respect so I can respect him.  Woman or not, I don't know if I can feel the same thing for Casca.

All agreed, your post is very much similar to my posts in another thread, which causes kenoh-sama to make this thread :D
I even said I can't find any difference between Casca and Charlotte except their social class and fighting skill.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline Orchid

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Re: Why so hard on Casca!?!
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2002, 11:19:36 PM »
(warning:  I have only seen fansubs of the anime of Berserk, so I have limited knowledge and please don't crucify me for not having read the manga :-/)

I adore Casca.  She's a great character.  I think that she fulfills a much needed space in the plot. (other than the love interest *sigh* ~why~ do all female characters have to be love interests at some point)  I just think that there's sooo much more to her than is ever seen. She's an incredable leader, and rather than pretend to be male (like some characters do) she still will put on a dress and be feminine.  She's a wonderful combonation of masculine and femine. (very yin-yang)  Charlotte, on the other hand, bugs the hell out of me.  She's a wuss...plain and simple.  Sure, she's helpful at some point...kinda... but *shrug* it was her fault in the first place.  again, I know im a little naive when it comes to the rest of the series, but I really loved Casca's character in the show.  Thanks for listening to my rant!! *G*

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Olivier Hague

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Re: Why so hard on Casca!?!
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2002, 02:55:02 AM »
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Sure, she's helpful at some point...kinda... but *shrug* it was her fault in the first place.

Huh? What do you mean? ?_?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline Kuroi-san

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Re: Why so hard on Casca!?!
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2002, 04:03:43 AM »
Was Charlotte _ever_ helpful?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline trapped_soul

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Re: Why so hard on Casca!?!
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2002, 04:19:20 AM »
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Was Charlotte _ever_ helpful?

she was the messenger for the hawks during the rescue of griffith. without her the hawks wouldn't have been able to rescue griffith.
so, yes, she was helpful.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline Kuroi-san

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Re: Why so hard on Casca!?!
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2002, 04:57:58 AM »
Oh erhm... I stand corrected.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline All_4_Yume

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Re: Why so hard on Casca!?!
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2002, 07:32:55 AM »
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All agreed, your post is very much similar to my posts in another thread, which causes kenoh-sama to make this thread :D
I even said I can't find any difference between Casca and Charlotte except their social class and fighting skill.


 Now that you mention it, there really isn't that much of a difference between the two.  I'd just better not see Casca come to and jump back on Griffith's dick (I don't care if she has amnesia or not).  If I ever see that I'll go berserk and start tearin' shit up.  Mr. Miura if you have that planned just kill Casca first.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Kuroi-san

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Re: Why so hard on Casca!?!
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2002, 10:12:21 AM »
Casca is better than Charlotte because... because...

She just is, okay!!!
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Offline Orchid

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Re: Why so hard on Casca!?!
« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2002, 11:03:16 AM »
oh, lord, yes, Casca is better than charlotte- charlotte is irritating and really kinda pointless.  Just a stepping stone.  Casca is incredable.  *L*  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline puella

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Re: Why so hard on Casca!?!
« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2002, 02:26:53 PM »
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oh, lord, yes, Casca is better than charlotte- charlotte is irritating and really kinda pointless.  Just a stepping stone.  Casca is incredable.  *L*  

Maybe you don't know of the current state of Casca. ;)
but I can understand it all because she's insane. what I want to say is about "sane" Casca, her original state.

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She picked up the slack when Griffith was captured and Guts was out of the picture. She could barely feed herself. Barely take care of her soldiers who were on the run from The midland army and rougue mercanaries. She was a woman who more than held her ground in a mans battle field. Which also made her a target but she persevered. Besides Guts she was the best swordsman there. She even kept her calm when they first were surrounded by those demons during festival. When she was being raped by Griffith she told Guts not to look at her so it wouldn't cause him any more anguish.

We can say Charlotte is as strong as Casca or even stronger by kenoh-sama's logic, can't we? (where are you, kenoh  ::) )
Because Charlotte plunged herself into going to Griffith's rescue in spite of her status and not knowing anything about fighting.
And she only worried about Griffith though she got shot by a dart. Besides, she let go Griffith for his own sake and promised him to wait forever. in a word, she wasn't afraid of even death for her love.
How brave, helpful and strong Charlotte was! am I wrong?

I know I'm too late but to reply to Orchid's post, I quote kenoh-sama's post. His post was focusing on Casca's helpfulness for the Hawk members and the one she loves while my opinions about Casca are focusing on her helpfulness for her own life.
Think about it, if Guts or Griffith is just satisfied with being needed by the each other and it's his goal of life, would you guys think his life is the best for himself? Or would you be simply satisfied with that fact?

Offline Nadiaska

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Re: Why so hard on Casca!?!
« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2002, 03:29:16 AM »
Casca and Charlote are completely two characters different, so much in the way to think, to act, to love, etc. The two are strong, but different ways, in way some, Casca is same Charlote, (argh). Casca was always strong, from the beginning, she is complete. Charlote is just a stupid princess, spoiled, sentimental, of those that are waiting for your charmed prince, bleargh! She never suffered in the life, like Casca, it was always surrounded by luxuries and it still continues of the same way. Even they can say, is it normal since she is a princess or did  want her to live among the plebeians? Certain, but will that be a reason? I know several princesses beautiful, strong, true heroines, Charlote is just without charisma. No, I don't hate Charlote, I find her beautiful and if she wanted, it could demonstrate a lot of force and courage, as of that time that helped to save Griffith of the dungeon, I admired a lot her, a feather such scene not to be shown in it encourages him! If it roots an actress it would be note zero, clear she is in the history and  should have your value, only wanted to know when she will show that, already appears very little in this second phase. And in that phase, as well as Casca, Charlote has to leave of being a child.  
Will Snif, be that anybody there twists for the happiness of Casca, like me? She is my rival for the love of Guts, but even so, I twist for her, because it is one of my favorite characters!  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

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Re: Why so hard on Casca!?!
« Reply #36 on: August 03, 2002, 10:18:30 PM »
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 The reason I'm hard on Casca is that the ambitions she had for herself was so low.


She had nothing at the beginning. Griffith gave her everything. Now you think she is weak because she had no world-conquer ambitions like Griffith?

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 I know must have been hard to be a woman living back then especially when women where supposed to cling to some man to find their place in the world (wife/mother) but she took it to the extreme.  Her whole reason in life was to be used by Griffiith so I find it hard to feel sorry for her.  She kinda got what she wanted.


If Griffith hadn't been there, she would have ended up as a whore for a nobleman.
Griffith saved her, and showed her to use her own power, by killing the nobleman himself. He practially created her.
It's only natural that she adored him. She is no super-human like Guts, she's just a usual woman.
Yes, she dedicated him her life. What's so wrong about it? Is it wrong to dedicate his live for one goal(her's was it to serve Griffith)?
Then all the members of humanitary organisations would also be weaklings, since they don't set themselves higher then everything else.

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 She was there when Griffith needed her the most (making Guts look like a bitch and being Griffith's vessal back into the real world).


"Making Guts look like a bitch"?
::)


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 I feel sorry for Guts because at least when he found out he was a tool for Griffith he at least got out and tried to be his own man.  Guts wanted more out of his life and he wanted Griffith's respect so I can respect him.  Woman or not, I don't know if I can feel the same thing for Casca.


So you also dislike all other members of the Band of the Hawk? He gave them a prupose, a goal and strenght in their live, like Kaska. Would they have come very far if everyone had gone their own way, alone?

Not eveyone can be as strong as Guts(mentally). But somehow people always forget that.  ::)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline puella

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Re: Why so hard on Casca!?!
« Reply #37 on: August 03, 2002, 10:47:48 PM »
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She had nothing at the beginning. Griffith gave her everything. Now you think she is weak because she had no world-conquer ambitions like Griffith?


If Griffith hadn't been there, she would have ended up as a whore for a nobleman.
Griffith saved her, and showed her to use her own power, by killing the nobleman himself. He practially created her.
It's only natural that she adored him. She is no super-human like Guts, she's just a usual woman.
Yes, she dedicated him her life. What's so wrong about it? Is it wrong to dedicate his live for one goal(her's was it to serve Griffith)?
Then all the members of humanitary organisations would also be weaklings, since they don't set themselves higher then everything else.


"Making Guts look like a bitch"?
::)



So you also dislike all other members of the Band of the Hawk? He gave them a prupose, a goal and strenght in their live, like Kaska. Would they have come very far if everyone had gone their own way, alone?

Not eveyone can be as strong as Guts(mentally). But somehow people always forget that.  ::)

All your opinions are like talking about Two super-natural guys and a usual woman. It is natural a girl who had nothing devotes herself to her master? huh?
But you should know your post proves how weak Casca is as me and All-4 yume pointed out.
So, at least, you wouldn't say "Casca is a strong woman" any more.

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Re: Why so hard on Casca!?!
« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2002, 12:21:02 AM »
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All your opinions are like talking about Two super-natural guys and a usual woman. It is natural a girl who had nothing devotes herself to her master? huh?
But you should know your post proves how weak Casca is as me and All-4 yume pointed out.
So, at least, you wouldn't say "Casca is a strong woman" any more.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
:D :D

:D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline puella

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Re: Why so hard on Casca!?!
« Reply #39 on: August 04, 2002, 01:28:09 AM »
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:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
:D :D

:D

:D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

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Re: Why so hard on Casca!?!
« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2002, 02:21:58 AM »
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:D


;)


Ok, to put it into understandable words:

Ok then, what should Kaska have done? Had she any other alternative then to follow Griffith?
Oh, you and all4one have only told us your opinions, nothing more.
Kaska is a strong character, even if you can't admit it, though you know it deep inside you. Could it be that you are somehow jealous of her?  ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline puella

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Re: Why so hard on Casca!?!
« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2002, 03:26:33 AM »
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Could it be that you are somehow jealous of her?  ;)

.............. you're really funny at that. Could it be that I have to think you are jealous of him or her when you criticize somebody? ;)

ok, I'll tell you what woman I do feel jealous of:




Does she help you with your understanding what I tried to say? :D
I think our dicussions might represent women's point of view vs men's point of view though mine is outnumbered.

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Ok then, what should Kaska have done? Had she any other alternative then to follow Griffith?

you've just proved how weak Casca is. AGAIN.
That's what I wanted to point out. That's her problem.
She thought there's no alternative but following Griffith.
OK. Basically ,following or devoting is not bad. but  if she has nothing for her life without Griffith or Guts just because her life is controlled over by those two(F & D),I think she should be blamed for it. She completely depends on the one who she loves.
The problem is not the fact that she followed Griffith but the way she followed Griffith.
And if there had been  no eclipse, she would do the same thing to Guts. That's Casca.
She even hated she's a woman and tried to act like a man.
and could this make you think she's strong?
because she fights better than most of men though she's only a woman?
Whether she is a good fighter or not, it doens't matter to explain her weak mental state.

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Oh, you and all4one have only told us your opinions, nothing more.

right. and yours, too.

To make a long story short, why a woman who did nothing but devoting in her whole life shoud be taken as "strong woman" or "the best model of females"
Why?

Offline Kuroi-san

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Re: Why so hard on Casca!?!
« Reply #42 on: August 04, 2002, 03:37:39 AM »
So...

You say there isn't much difference between Casca and Charlotte?

What difference is there between Judeau and Gaston, aside from fighting skills and personal goals?

What difference is there between Isidro and Puck, besides race and zaniniess?

What difference is there between... Guts and Griffith, besides looks and dreams?

Try and see it like that. Take away some important elements, and all characters are just like eachother.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline puella

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Re: Why so hard on Casca!?!
« Reply #43 on: August 04, 2002, 04:49:22 AM »
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So...

You say there isn't much difference between Casca and Charlotte?

What difference is there between Judeau and Gaston, aside from fighting skills and personal goals?

What difference is there between Isidro and Puck, besides race and zaniniess?

What difference is there between... Guts and Griffith, besides looks and dreams?

At least you seem to admit there's no particular difference between Casca and Charoltte though that's not my main point.
What I want to say is why people speak ill of Charlotte while they adore Casca so much though their roles are alomst same?
I think it is unfair they have discriminational point of view about two characters just depending on their importance in beserk.

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Try and see it like that. Take away some important elements, and all characters are just like eachother.

why do you say so?  ???
It doesn't have any problem with me.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline Kuroi-san

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Re: Why so hard on Casca!?!
« Reply #44 on: August 04, 2002, 05:32:25 AM »
Well, what you said got me thinking, so I thought I might as well post it.  ;D

Well, its just like ice cream. All ice cream is made up of the same stuff (bar flavourings), its just a matter of choice. So I guess its all just a matter of choice. But you're right, You shouldn't trash Charlotte, or Griffith, or Guts, and praise other characters when they are all, basically, the same.

Ooo, delving into the philosophical. Thats a new one for me.
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Re: Why so hard on Casca!?!
« Reply #45 on: August 04, 2002, 11:49:34 AM »
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you've just proved how weak Casca is. AGAIN.


nope, you just said that Kaska is weak AGAIN.  ;)


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That's what I wanted to point out. That's her problem.
She thought there's no alternative but following Griffith.
OK. Basically ,following or devoting is not bad. but  if she has nothing for her life without Griffith or Guts just because her life is controlled over by those two(F & D),I think she should be blamed for it. She completely depends on the one who she loves.
The problem is not the fact that she followed Griffith but the way she followed Griffith.
And if there had been  no eclipse, she would do the same thing to Guts. That's Casca.
She even hated she's a woman and tried to act like a man.
and could this make you think she's strong?
because she fights better than most of men though she's only a woman?
Whether she is a good fighter or not, it doens't matter to explain her weak mental state.

right. and yours, too.


So you basically say loving someone so that this person's life is more important to you then yours, is a bad thing, just like loyality?
Yeah, right.  ::)

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To make a long story short, why a woman who did nothing but devoting in her whole life shoud be taken as "strong woman" or "the best model of females"
Why?


Just let her live and the hardshipnesses she endured run before your eyes. Then again. And again.
Think you could endure what she has gone trough without breaking?
Thought so.  ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline Kuroi-san

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Re: Why so hard on Casca!?!
« Reply #46 on: August 04, 2002, 01:28:40 PM »
Drach, lets not turn this into a flame war, eh?  :-/
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Re: Why so hard on Casca!?!
« Reply #47 on: August 04, 2002, 01:47:47 PM »
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Drach, lets not turn this into a flame war, eh?  :-/


Uhmmm, yeah. Whatever...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline Kuroi-san

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Re: Why so hard on Casca!?!
« Reply #48 on: August 04, 2002, 02:12:16 PM »
The ass is within you, Drach.

It is strong. You must strive to overcome it.

Do not disappoint me, Drachenfels.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Maximus

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Re: Why so hard on Casca!?!
« Reply #49 on: August 04, 2002, 02:28:42 PM »
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The ass is within you, Drach.

It is strong. You must strive to overcome it.

Do not disappoint me, Drachenfels.

...u somehow sound like good ol Mr. Miagi! :D




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