Author Topic: The Moonlight Boy  (Read 81355 times)

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Offline brinco

Re: The Moonlight Boy
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2006, 03:35:03 PM »
That's quite a theory, Aaz.  Maybe this is silly, but didn't Zodd have just one horn? Because in the picture it looks like it has two.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: The Moonlight Boy
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2006, 03:37:09 PM »
didn't Zodd have just one horn? Because in the picture it looks like it has two.

The picture of him I used is from back when he still had both horns. I just wanted one where we could see his profile. It doesn't mean anything in particular in regard to the rest.

Offline Walter

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Re: The Moonlight Boy
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2006, 03:40:13 PM »
Jesus what an implication... This is HUGE!  Great find, Aaz.  I'm amazed that it fits in with all the evidence too.  Well, it certainly solidifies several mysteries regarding Griffith's connection with the Child, and our initial inklings that the Demon Child and it are related.

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From that point on the speculations can go in every direction,
Oh, well then allow me  :guts:

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the child could have taken control of Griffith, or Griffith could have consciously done it, maybe out of guilt, maybe because he felt like being a family, etc.
As you say, we certainly don't know the reasoning yet, but my first impression was that it may have something to do with what Schierke said regarding the Ocean's effect on magic.  I think Griffith may have been drawn there against his will.  Like Aaz mentioned, I'd still like to think of them as two seperate personalities, and I think that fits the bill thus far.  I don't think Griffith is masquerading as the Child, rather the Child is using Griffith's body while it's able to. Obviously, it likely has a lot to do with Guts' and Casca's proximity to him at the time in conjunction with the Ocean AND the full moon.  :carcus:

I wonder if Griffith retains his memories while in this state, or if they're lost.  If so, he'd have an integral understanding of Guts' current condition.  Furthermore, that possibility would allow plots in the future to incorporate a one-way, indirect conversation between Guts and Griffith, without Guts frothing at the mouth. :guts:

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That's the power of a member of the God Hand.
That's the power of a SUPERIOR BEING, another clue that fits. I wonder if that same kanji for the episode title has been used for Griffith before...

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...I just love it. So logical and obvious too, right under our noses all along. All it takes is to pay attention, let this be a lesson to everybody.
Seriously... how could we all miss an ENTIRE page for THIS long?!

That's quite a theory, Aaz.  Maybe this is silly, but didn't Zodd have just one horn? Because in the picture it looks like it has two.
Wow, are you serious? That's all you got out of this new information?
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline brinco

Re: The Moonlight Boy
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2006, 03:42:33 PM »
I meant the hill picture.

Although if it's true, it certainly make a lot of sense with the moonlight child powers and stuff

Offline Aazealh

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Re: The Moonlight Boy
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2006, 03:45:04 PM »
Jesus what an implication... This is HUGE!  Great find, Aaz.  I'm amazed that it fits in with all the evidence too.  Well, it certainly solidifies several mysteries regarding Griffith's connection with the Child, and our initial inklings that the Demon Child and it are related.

Haha thanks, and yeah, this is just awesome.

I think Griffith may have been drawn there against his will.  Like Aaz mentioned, I'd still like to think of them as two seperate personalities, and I think that fits the bill thus far.

Could be. Or not. I think pretty much everything is possible right now. I could definitely see them as separate beings but also as one new being, both ideas seem viable. It's interesting to note that he came on Zodd's back and not alone too, and it means that Zodd knows. What an incredibly dangerous and powerful information. Does this mean the Skull Knight knows too? He disappeared right before Griffith the Child came up after all.

I wonder if Griffith retains his memories while in this state, or if they're lost.  If so, he'd have an integral understanding of Guts' current condition.  Furthermore, that possibility would allow plots in the future to incorporate a one-way, indirect conversation between Guts and Griffith, without Guts frothing at the mouth.

Yeah, whether he knows what's happening or just remembers being at one place and awakes at another, with a blank in-between. This really opens a lot of new possibilities for the development of their relationship. And man, when Casca's going to wake up... I can't even imagine.

That's the power of a SUPERIOR BEING, another clue that fits. I wonder if that same kanji for the episode title has been used for Griffith before...

Yeah, and guess what? We still haven't found what "Jan Anin" means yet. Maybe it's some obscure crypted dialect for "Griffith" or "The Hawk"  or something ("God Hand?"). At this point it'd almost seem natural to me.

I meant the hill picture.

Ah, well that's his wing on the left. We're seeing his profile.

PS: Well it looks like the Moonlight Boy will appear in Vritannis after all (sort of)! :void:

Offline brinco

Re: The Moonlight Boy
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2006, 03:55:26 PM »
Wow, are you serious? That's all you got out of this new information?

Obviously not.  Just want to check stupid details first.  I agree that's a great finding.

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: The Moonlight Boy
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2006, 04:01:58 PM »
Holy mother of God Hand, what a find!  I never saw the Young Animal release for that episode, so I was basing everything off of the volume, but I never noticed that the thing on the hill resembles Zodd.  After looking at it now, I'm amazed at myself for not seeing it, as it's fairly obvious.  Wow :isidro:.  Thanks for pointing this out, Aazealh!

Now for the speculating...  I agree that the fact that the moon was full on the night the Moonlight Child appeared is incredibly significant.  Along with what Aaz and Walter were saying, perhaps Griffith is overcome by the Moonlight Child whenever the moon is full, transforming into what Casca and Guts' child might have been like if he was left untainted by Femto.  He could possibly have wandered off, instinctively drawn to his parents (afterall, Griffith is camped near Vritannis, so he'd be in the area), with Zodd simply keeping an eye on him and making sure he doesn't wander too far or get into any trouble (although he probably wouldn't be in mortal danger, being a Superior Being and all).

Offline Aazealh

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Re: The Moonlight Boy
« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2006, 04:05:34 PM »
perhaps Griffith is overcome by the Moonlight Child whenever the moon is full, transforming into what Casca and Guts' child might have been like if he was left untainted by Femto.

Whoa, new age werewolf. :beast: It's indeed quite plausible, great supposition. The ocean is a bit restrictive, but the full moon element would work perfectly.

Offline Walter

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Re: The Moonlight Boy
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2006, 04:15:06 PM »
Yeah, whether he knows what's happening or just remembers being at one place and awakes at another, with a blank in-between. This really opens a lot of new possibilities for the development of their relationship. And man, when Casca's going to wake up... I can't even imagine.
Wow, yeah... Poor Casca.  It'll be like being divorced and having joint custody...

The Idea of Evil: "Ok, the mother can only see the Child on full moons, and when he's not conquering the Human World."
Casca: "Is 3:30 on Saturday good for you?"
Griffith: "Sat- This Saturday? Sorry uh, "mom".  I've got other plans."

Seriously though, this is definitely another wrench in the works for her unhindered, happy reunion with Guts.  Now she'll have to choose between Moonlight Nanny and Warrior Avenger.

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Yeah, and guess what? We still haven't found what "Jan Anin" means yet. Maybe it's some obscure crypted dialect for "Griffith" or "The Hawk"  or something ("God Hand?"). At this point it'd almost seem natural to me.
Argh, we don't know Jan Anin yet?  Damn you Miura... :miura:  (just looked at the katakana... maybe it's Jananin with no spaces?)
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: The Moonlight Boy
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2006, 04:24:42 PM »
Plus, how is Guts going to feel once (if?) it's revealed to him?  Will he be able to kill Griffith knowing that (and this is still just speculation) the untainted form of his child still exists inside the Hawk?  The plot thickens... :carcus:

EDIT:

It's interesting to note that he came on Zodd's back and not alone too, and it means that Zodd knows. What an incredibly dangerous and powerful information. Does this mean the Skull Knight knows too? He disappeared right before Griffith the Child came up after all.

If he didn't just wander off and actually flew there on Zodd's back, that almost certainly implies that Griffith is totally aware of what he's doing when in the guise of the Child.  However, if the Child didn't ride on Zodd to the beach (with Zodd simply following the Child and keeping track of him), then that implies that Griffith is not conscious of his actions when transformed.  Damnit, I hope Miura reveals what's going on sooner than he's done/doing with the mysteries of Skull Knight. :miura:
« Last Edit: June 14, 2006, 04:30:09 PM by Rhombaad »

Offline Walter

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Re: The Moonlight Boy
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2006, 04:32:33 PM »
Plus, how is Guts going to feel once (if?) it's revealed to him?  Will he be able to kill Griffith knowing that (and this is still just speculation) the untainted form of his child still exists inside the Hawk?  The plot thickens... :carcus:
Yeah, it's yet another reason for Guts to forget his hatred.  But, while he's certainly developed as a character since volume 14, he had no trouble stomping on his own child then  :guts:.  Then again, he wasn't fully grasping the situation at the time.  Anyway, I still think the major conflict will be with Casca, not Guts.

This new revelation finally gives some form to Skully's words "What you wish for may not be what she wishes for..."
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: The Moonlight Boy
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2006, 04:36:32 PM »
This new revelation finally gives some form to Skully's words "What you wish for may not be what she wishes for..."

No kidding. :guts: :???: :griff:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: The Moonlight Boy
« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2006, 04:38:14 PM »
Well, according (mostly) to my instinct Jananin is Sanskrit for "newborn." So it refers to the fact the Child is obviously young, but also to Femto's incarnation. Of course that's not confirmed at all. And it's probably wrong. :void:

This new revelation finally gives some form to Skully's words "What you wish for may not be what she wishes for..."

Guts: "I'm not sure anymore. How about we drop it and just live happily? I mean you should have seen us 3 back in the hut, it was adorable. Damn it, he's my son!"

Casca: "What the fuck!? He raped me and the result was a deformed freak right? Just kill it, or are you not enough of a man to avenge your girl, uh?"

Guts: "..."

Offline Proj2501

Re: The Moonlight Boy
« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2006, 05:01:43 PM »
Whoa...a theory to wrap ur head around! Reading all the posts it all sounds plausible...but the panel - the one that's supposed to be Zodd-, something just bothers me about it. I don't kno, it could be, but it's a stretch...at least in my mind at this moment. I'll try and let it stew for awhile. Now about Zodd, he only cares about serving Griffith at this point. Agreed? So does that mean, he and Griffith are talking for a moment the BOOM, he transforms becomes the moonchild. Wouldn't Zodd point, look around for a moment, and ask "Who the hell are you?!" Then what? Maybe the child controls Zodd due to his higher being status. It just seems very odd for me. Even if he sees the Moonlight child helping Guts and Co., helping Guts is going against Griffith....!!!! AHHHHH!!!!!! So much to think about.... :???:

Offline Walter

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Re: The Moonlight Boy
« Reply #39 on: June 14, 2006, 05:09:52 PM »
Well, according (mostly) to my instinct Jananin is Sanskrit for "newborn." So it refers to the fact the Child is obvious young, but also to Femto's incarnation. Of course that's not confirmed at all.
Yeah, after some SERIOUS research (google XD), Janani[n] is a word found in many cultures, but primarily Indian, Hindu and African.  The Hindu definition is  evocative of Griffith to me: "someone that has talked to God and knows 'the Truth' ", for African, Janani are "spirits of the dead who protect [their tribe]". Aaz found the Indian/Sanskrit one, though I found it just to mean "Birth."  But I agree, in this context, it makes more sense as newborn. 

While these definitions are all vaguely congruous to the Child, we won't know for sure until someone more qualified with the word comes along and teaches us...

Maybe the child controls Zodd due to his higher being status. It just seems very odd for me. Even if he sees the Moonlight child helping Guts and Co., helping Guts is going against Griffith....!!!!
I don't think it's that hard to understand.  Zodd serves Griffith, who just happens to have a bit of a multiple-personality disorder.  They're the same flesh though, and still his master, ultimately.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: The Moonlight Boy
« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2006, 05:11:04 PM »
the panel - the one that's supposed to be Zodd-, something just bothers me about it. I don't kno, it could be, but it's a stretch...at least in my mind at this moment. I'll try and let it stew for awhile.

I think it's pretty clear it's him. He was watching the group on the beach from the top of the cliff. Then he turned around and that's what's shown in the panel, his profile in the middle of this action.

Now about Zodd, he only cares about serving Griffith at this point. Agreed?

Well, maybe not just that. We don't know much about his motives, although he's indeed serving Griffith diligently (and based on that it makes sense he'd serve the Child too).

So does that mean, he and Griffith are talking for a moment the BOOM, he transforms becomes the moonchild. Wouldn't Zodd point, look around for a moment, and ask "Who the hell are you?!" Then what? Maybe the child controls Zodd due to his higher being status. It just seems very odd for me.

Uhh no, I don't think that's how it went. Sounds very odd and unlikely, like you said.

Still, we won't know for sure until someone more qualified with the word comes along and teaches us...

Yeah, we should search for it in Japanese to get a real, serious clue. But I really don't have the time right now. It's time we put some real effort into it and find out though.

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Re: The Moonlight Boy
« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2006, 05:33:48 PM »
Wow

Yeah, I think you guys figured it out. Crazy.

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Re: The Moonlight Boy
« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2006, 06:45:48 PM »
 :isidro:

Great find Aaz.  Looking at it it does seem to have an uncanny resemblance to Zodd

So going by this the Moonlight Child IS Griffith??  Assuming this is true it will definitely make some interesting character situations.

Offline pippin22

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Re: The Moonlight Boy
« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2006, 06:58:08 PM »
the panel - the one that's supposed to be Zodd-, something just bothers me about it. I don't kno, it could be, but it's a stretch...at least in my mind at this moment.

I wouldn't buy it either, if Miura hadn't added the page before it... you think he added it for no reason?

Good eye Aazealh. :zodd:

Offline Proj2501

Re: The Moonlight Boy
« Reply #44 on: June 14, 2006, 07:04:11 PM »
Ok, I re-read everything and yea I have to admit, it does look like Zodd is duckin outta the way. This is too much!

Offline Lithrael

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Re: The Moonlight Boy
« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2006, 07:28:38 PM »
Wow.  Aaz are teh sharp eyed hawk. 

..HAWK?!?!  :isidro:

Maybe Zodd was there *looking for* Griff?  "Crap, leader has disappeared and we march to war like TOMORROW.."

Offline Griffith

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Re: The Moonlight Boy
« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2006, 09:18:26 PM »
SUPER find by Aaz, and great speculation guys, and I hate to be the wet blanket... but lets not get too fast and loose with the facts here. We're already talking about it like we've scientifically proven something besides a rorschach test Zodd looks to be behind that hill, or should I say grassy knoll? =)

All that means is Zodd was there, something obviously supported by the events of episode 275. Yeah, I'm being boring and obtuse, but you guys already took the fun position, so now I'm forced into playing devil's advocate.

To me, this raises more questions than gives answers, and it's dangerous to go supposing a bunch of things about the situation based on this one panel for which we don't know the context (like, if Griffith is actually there or not).

Anyway, I'm not poo-pooing anything, I love all the ideas here, I'm just trying to maintain that the possibilities are totally wide open as Aaz said earlier. We don't want to assume too much too soon and erroniously pigeonhole this into our own dogma.

BTW, I hate you all for making me this guy, the "settle down" guy. =)

Offline Lithrael

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Re: The Moonlight Boy
« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2006, 09:43:17 PM »
 :serpico:  Sorry Griff.  Well as for less-Child-ey speculation, it's also very possible that Zodd was there because of Skull Knight's recent presence and NOT because of the kid. 

Offline Walter

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Re: The Moonlight Boy
« Reply #48 on: June 14, 2006, 10:41:29 PM »
Oh, I certainly don't want to exclude other possibilities.  It's just that Aaz's assumption was just so exciting, I couldn't resist ;D.  I can definitely appreciate a Devil's Advocate since virtually everyone's SOLD on the premise. But there's still a lot of unexplored possibilities if we take Zodd's appearance on the beach as the fulcrum for further speculation.  I'll humor a few of the ones I've been bouncing around my head:

Griffith could be projecting this manifestation from a distance, and Zodd's just there as transportation before and after the show.  It could also be A TRAP (admiral_ackbar.jpg): Griffith slipping past Guts' defensive line to see the Armor in person, while still allowing the Child to have his little moment with his parents in the moonlight.  :guts:

But seriously, one thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is the Child's enigmatic exit in ep 243. Where's he headed?  Well, it certainly seems like he's climbing at least near where Zodd was seen earlier in ep 238.  On page 13 there's a panel that shows the moon near a cliff, then another on page 14 behind Casca that looks very similar to where Zodd was.  Finally, on page 15 the Child has mounted the same cliff focused on in previous pages, where he watches the Band passing the Makara...

:zodd: : "Put on your shoes, Griffy. Time to go home." 

It's still the most likely possibility explored in this thread, given what we know, but it's still far from being fact.  Though I'd still like to see a lot more possibilities explored.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline dwarfkicker

Re: The Moonlight Boy
« Reply #49 on: June 15, 2006, 02:35:28 AM »
I hope this new theory of yours plays out, Aaz.  If this turns out to be true it just opens an ass load of possibilities for this story, and I'm liking that.  I can't help it but I'm already looking at this as being true.  Just wow :isidro:

Great find Aaz.